Forum menu
no questions ready for anything else”
There are no questions to be answered by her. The house need to read, digest and then vote. At this point May is now an observer...
they will vote for the shit deal because they are too afraid of no deal and oddly in the long term this shit deal might be worse.
Meanwhile the elephant in the room is still sat waving at everyone.
The best you can ever hope to deliver is so SO much worse than you’ve presently got. And you’re putting yourself through some existential hell so that you have the right to make your lives infinitely worse
Everyome in the world is presently laughing their tits off at this nation containing exactly 52% of utter ****wits
Binners - so once AGAIN Corbyn states his and the parties position on Brexit. Not that you would know this was the position, has been for months and is clearly stated from the mainstream media who are only interested in tory infighting and finding any stick they can to beat labour wit
Note that if they cannot get a GE its a second referendum as one of the options
The government is falling apart before our eyes. Their half-baked deal has unravelled, the Prime Minister has lost all authority and is clearly incapable of delivering a Brexit deal that commands even the support of her Cabinet – let alone Parliament and the people of our country.
Our Party Conference agreed that this deal would be judged against our six tests, and if it failed to meet them we would vote against it.
After two years of bungled negotiations, the government has produced a botched deal that breaches the Prime Minister’s own red lines, does not meet our six tests and will leave the country in an indefinite halfway house without a real say.
As I said in Parliament earlier today, people around the country will be feeling anxious about the industries they work in, the jobs they hold and the stability of this country.
We do not accept that the choice is between the government’s deal and ‘no deal’. We will work across Parliament to stop a ‘no deal’ outcome. Labour has set out our alternative plan for a sensible Brexit that would work for all of our nations and regions, bring Parliament and the country together, support jobs and our economy and guarantee rights, standards and protections.
If Parliament votes down this shambolic Tory deal — as seems likely — this will represent a loss of confidence in the government. In those circumstances the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power and deliver the Labour government this country desperately needs.
If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.
We are ready to lead, ready to deliver a sensible deal that works for all our regions and nations and ready to build a Britain that works for the many, not the few.
Jeremy Corbyn
Leader of the Labour Party
Corbyn will be just as FUBAR as May is if he magically got into the driving seat.
He's turned fence sitting into a competitive sport..
Yet again confirming that labour policy is to ram through the red unicorn brexit if they win a GE.
thecaptain - can you read? that is not labour policy nor what he says or has said.
Yet again confirming that labour policy is to ram through the red unicorn brexit if they win a GE.
Labour and many others seem to think that because we change something in our government the rest of the world will bend and wait
this is the deal negotiated. They all watched it happen now it’s too late to start again. The EU have other things to do than deal with petulance
TJ - which Brexit vision does Corbyn/Labour Party have - all of the four freedoms or none of them?
Thing is folks doing some troll work on other less enlightened forums ihave established the following - there are really just two types of rabid Brexiteers
Type 1. Jacob Rees Moog, Arron Banks - well healed no amount of chaos can ever touch there world but chaos brings profit. They like being in charge.
Type 2. Working poor, not well educated with limited skills that are not transportable and easily undercut, they dont care about the cliff edge they dont believe they will be any worse off. They think they used to be in charge but now all them foreigners have taken over.
This not a gross generalisation. Neither of the above give a * about integrated supply chains or transportable skills, they dont want to be educated and travel more - they want enough money to sit in the pub from friday to sunday, bet on the horses and not have to look at brown people.
Type 2 create no wealth, jobs or opportunities for others - they simply "take" wealth created by others and here is the rub Type 1 are exactly the same.
Its a uncomfortable reality and one i personally have trouble coming to terms with, this is why they dont see through the shysters because they aspire to be shysters in there own little world.
We are irreparably split, nothing will fix this - the fight now is to start and get control back from these horrible *s and get both types suppressed.
It may be that a really shit hard brexit can get type 2 under control and a major economic recession give type 1 a kicking.
The fight starts here comrades, dont tolerate their shite, bait the gammons, question their "statistics" dont let casual racism/sexism occur - shout them down, point out uncomfortable facts and when it goes tits up (like now) rub their ****ing noses in it.
TJ, the labour policy is crystal clear and has been stated many times by starmer in particular. The people's vote is only an alternative goal if they can't have an election. If they win an election, their policy is to pursue brexit with no option for a new referendum.
I've not really paid attention to labours Brexit plan.
Can anyone tell me how they will achieve their 6 goals and have they been approved by the EU?
They won't, they can't. The 6 tests is a stick to beat the Tories with, not something they have a plan to pass themselves.
Make three wishes (twice) then clap your hands...
But isn't Labour policy a second ref, as per the conference? If they win a GE they'll have to do it, no?
Just reading Jezza’s email. It clear that he wants to force a GE, but on the back of that he’s offering support for a People’s Vote. The “all other options” thing is hot air - Jezza would be in exactly the same position as May with Brexit-lite and he knows it.
I did reply along the lines of “who dragged grandad away from the allotment at last?”.
The whole 6 tests thing is just a nice thing to say when you’re quite enjoying the adulation of half-wits who are so profoundly stupid that they can’t even recognise that what they want is the polar opposite of what you want. What you actually want is exactly the same as Arron Banks.
Corbyn supporting Momentum members are just a quaint, shit-thick, charming mirror image of the London racist Cabbie who think Nigel Farage ‘tells it how it is’
The end result is the same
Honestly, I thought that he was away on some sort of sabbatical or something.
Its a good job that we have an excellent, first rate opposition.
He was great today! Faced with an open goal he went at it with all the fire-filled vitriol and oratory of a local council health and safety inspector reading some local council planning regulations to a group of bored builders.
Which is pretty much his level. In fact, he may have to spend a bit of time working up to that
Corbyn supporting Momentum members are just a quaint, shit-thick, charming mirror image of the London racist Cabbie who think Nigel Farage ‘tells it how it is’
Good job you're doing your best to get rid of him, then.
Oh.
As I thought - nothing he can say or do will satisfy those who hate him
The captain - the policy is clear. GE and a soft as it can be brexit. or if he cannot get that a second referendum. He cannot say now "remain" as it would split the party wide open given the shameful pandering to the leavrs of around half his party, the rabid leavers in the party and those afraid to say what they want.. He must be mindful of the press attacks he will get. Yes he is still offering things that are unachievable but as a starting point for negotiations staying in a customs union is a far better starting point than the tories started from
Corbyn and labour have been consistent and clear from the start that this is the position they would start negotiations from. The need to protect the economy and jobs while respecting the result of the referendum means the softest of soft brexits. NOrway plus.
. Why people feel the need to keep on claiming he wants the hardest of hard brexists when he continually states the policy of the softest of soft brexits. When he campaigned for remain and spoke to far more people at far more public events than any other campaigner I do not know or understand. No one else onthe remain side campaigned as much as he did for remain.
Ransos - do grace all us deluded, vacuous slaves of the military industrial complex the no-doubt groundbreaking opinion of your beardy messiahs wisdom, or your own...
in your own time......
Maybe you need to set up a fair trade, multicultural, all-faith, woke commission that can report back in 20 years time or so...
when you’ve worked out if you the coffee machine in the common room should be soya-only milk
priorities comrade
As I thought – nothing he can say or do will satisfy those who hate him
Let's be honest, if a gurning war criminal and the template for Malcolm Tucker make you jizz your pants, then it's inevitable.
Maybe you need to set up a fair trade, multicultural, all-faith, woke commission that can report back in 20 years….
Hey, maybe you'll have joined the Labour party by then. Or perhaps you'll have found your natural home.
Type 2 create no wealth, jobs or opportunities for others – they simply “take” wealth created by others and here is the rub Type 1 are exactly the same.
I think you are a bit confused here. If type 2 are working poor then they aren't taking wealth from anyone. The wealth creators as you call them generally take the piss and only pay the minimum they can get away with to the people doing the work they get rich off the back of. These working poor are also the same people who keep schools (cleaners), hospitals (porters) and roads (labourers) open for other to use. They stock the shelfs in the stores you buy things from, deliver the products you order online and serve you food in restaurants.
Maybe a bit of understanding from people like yourself would have gone a long way to prevent the scenario we are in now.
come on binners - quote from the man himself saying he wants a hard brexit? Given how often he has siad the opposite and given how much you hate him you must have something to back your opinion that that is what he wants despite the continual stating of the opposite and his campaigning for remain.
Go on go on go on
So, Labour Brexit, or, after watching the clock run down, not ruling out a referendum once it is far too late. Right.
<div class="bbp-reply-author"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.8rem;">I’m starting to believe that she’s actually played a blinder and managed to fudge it up so much that we actually remain. </span></div>
<div>If that's how it comes out, she is a total legend!</div>
As with all politicians - don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do. He’s a brexiteer. A rabid one. It’s what he wants more than anything. Sorry to disappoint you comrade
so what’s he done?
1. Calling for article 50 to be triggered the day after the referendum
2. 3 line whipping (oh, the irony) his party to trigger Article 50
3. 3 line whipping (irony overload) his party to reject the EEA and membership of the customs union
Are you deluded muppets going to wake up and see this at any point or are you just going to carry on singing OOOOH JEREMY COOORBYN at Glastonbury while you let him carry on with facilitating the hard rights dream Brexit? What he’s always wanted!
Any of you lot planning on equating these things any time soon? Or just listening to the vacuous cloud-cuckooland rhetoric
he doesn’t want what you want. Please wake up FFS?! He’s just a useful idiot for the far right
Ok not wealth takers - service providers? Not being shitty about it but it will be up to SME entrepreneurs to dig is out of this particular mess not type 1 or 2 people.
Its a "make me happy now!" Attitude that boils my piss
Another evidence-free rant, binners. You sound just like a rabid brexiter.
Erm.... ok..,,, how are your A levels going?
so no quotes from him stating he wants a hard brexit.
The best bit binbins is that people like you were instrumental in getting Corbyn elected, and are too dumb to see it.
He wants Brexit.
Ruling out freedom of movement of workers.
He does not want us, the public, to stand in the way of his Brexit.
Oh, I know how we got here. I think we’d Probably agree on that. The way Blair hollowed out the Labour Partyfrom the inside . That’s what created the vacuum. We probably agree on 95% comrade (comrade meant in a genuine manner)
But Corbyn is about as far away from the answer as it’s possible to get. He’s the 1970’s frozen then reanimated. He’s as hardline a brexiteer as Rees Mogg. Because that’s what he believed in 1970. And he’s never changed his opinion since. Whatever you’d like to think/hope
The visual representation of what he represents is this...
The Conservatives must be thankful and pleased that Corbyn is leader of the opposition. For months now May has been getting a rougher time from her own back benches than from Corbyn.
His lameness is now being shown up when May is being questioned more comprehensively by her own cabinet than by him.
He is like a tepid prize fighter going up against Ali, but he can't get a punch in, due to the fact Ali is getting beaten up by Angelo Dundee.
so no quotes from him stating he wants a hard brexit.
He can say all he wants about a soft Brexit but he has ruled out Freedom of Movement so, in effect, can offer little better than May. What alternative does he have up his sleeve that the EU will accept?
May ruled a lot out but look where that left her
Much of the predicament of may is due to the slim majority she has and the divisions within her own party.
A Strong and (somewhat) more united Labour government would be able to impose it's will much more strongly.
There is no benefit to labour revealing it's plans until it has to. It enjoys the advantage of being in opposition. The best position for labour to be in now is to appeal to as many as possible in case of a g.e.
So… call for a general election, and campaign for a "Brexit for all" or "jobs first Brexit" with "an end to freedom of movement of workers"… which would then look different to May's proposals, how?
And so I can understand labour unwillingness to define their version of Brexit. the Tory party are doing well enough destroying themselves on their own, to need labour's opposition much. I reiterate it's not in labour interest to reveal their hand.
That sounds so trustworthy, doesn't it.
Kelvin I don't think it would matter to the majority of the public what it looked like. Just that calm was restored.Bino or remain .
The public are simply fatigued by it now. Was clear on bbcqt there is a lot less gammon frothing. The reality of the mess is so apparent only the most thick are shouting Brexit means Brexit or similar.
To be honest I think bino would have appeased the majority of the idiots who voted for this from day 1
Any party that unleashes a hard brexit within a couple of years maybe months has just destroyed that party due to the pain unleashed. So neither will.
Labour Brexit does not restore calm.
Corbyn will not allow a Labour government to be the ones to stop Brexit.
I'm not voting for Labour again with a vague nod and an wink from a Eurosceptic promising something he thinks is better than the current mess over Brexit.
No point swapping one dead end for another.
Any brexit close to the status quo does, for most people, whoever it's delivered by.
As a remainer Idon't think the TM deal is bad in that context.
It's either the TM deal, conservatives get even softer (gove) or labour soft /remain
Any party that unleashes a hard brexit
Labour whipped for triggering of A50 without a plan to avoid hard Brexit.
Labour whipped for a bill that makes a no deal the default way of exiting.
Labour whipped against an amendment for staying in the Single Market.
Labour whipped against an amendment for staying in the Customs Union.
Labour has made a hard Brexit the only outcome now.
Unless Brexit is stopped.
Much of the predicament of may is due to the slim majority she has and the divisions within her own party.
Much of her predicament is caused by her own doing. "So hows brexit going?" OK, but we can't tell you the details, because its a secret." While remainers knew what was going to happen, while brexiters screamed "project fear!" at them, she and her cohorts including the media kept the reality of brexit from those far less informed because of what we are seeing now, she kicked the can down the road for the last two years.
Well now reality has broken out.
As for the Corbynistas present, his actions speak louder than words. The torys may be bringing the country down, but labour has also seriously contributed to this by simply not being an opposition party.
The actions of both party's should not be forgiven or forgotten once this mess is cleared up.
Interesting that the Daily Mail is now leading with bashing Mogg and the ERG headbangers. <i>"Fury at preening tory saboteurs"</i>. My local MP (Simon Clark) and Mogg-lite gets an honourable mention as one of those putting in a letter. I can't quite see how this will go but it looks like the heavyweights are backing May.
I think for my local MP it's about making a career for himself. He' s a tory representing a marginal seat with a huge Brexit majority. He can see that by going all in for the hard Brexit he boosts his local support. Either way he wins. If he gets a hard full on mental Brexit he gets to claim credit locally. If it all goes wrong he can stand as an independent claiming that he stood firm for his constituents. The flaw in the whole plan is if the whole thing crashes the economy into recession then who knows. Nobody voted to get poorer.
so no quotes from him stating he wants a hard brexit.
No, but the same old Life Of Brian picture. You can't accuse binners of being inconsistent.
May is mentioning No Brexit, Barnier is mentioning No Brexit, Labour six tests pretty much mean no Brexit as no deal with ever meet the 6 six tests and a No Deal will absolutely not meet the six tests.
If we don't have a deal that gets voted through then the parliament can vote on No Brexit as the only option (with the 30 or so ERG people voting against No Brexit and favouring a crash out)
Now, what are the odds on a No Brexit?
Corbyn and Labour also want their cake and eat it. As May found out it won't work with EU
Regarding default position being hard brexit technically yes I agree that is true. However I feel strongly that that wold firstly be in nobodys interests (EU/uk) and also is not implementable by either side due to lack of preparation. Any delays etc. And brexit date will just get deferred.
Therefore exteme low chance of happening. In that respect I guess the brexiters were right.
It's a gigantic bluff call. Both sides are bluffing.
The only ways I can see a hard brexit happening are 1) one of the erg twunts gets the helm (as above I think they are happy to sling shit from the sidelines as it abicates them of responsibility)
Or 2) 2nd ref outcome is hard brexit. That's risk isis w I have mixed views about a 2nd ref.
Just my opinions
Now, what are the odds on a No Brexit?
Remember at the end of March, we crash out if nothing is done to avoid it happening. The default position we are now in is crash out.
Giving time to allow ratification by 27countries, if the deal is not done very soon there will be no time to ratify and we are then left two clear choices. Crash and burn or revoke A50.
Time is working in favour of the ERG.
Crash and burn or revoke A50.
And given those 2 choices which do you see the majority of parliament going for?
The EU would welcome a50 revoke and not put up a single blocker.
And given those 2 choices which do you see the majority of parliament going for?
You assume parliament being asked to vote. It comes down to whether enough in parliament can force a vote in defiance of the executive.
I am hopeful that revocation is the outcome, but not complacent enough to believe it will happen. I haven't seen much to make believe that MPs are worth the money.
TJ,
Corbyn has consistently whipped the party against all the "soft" options that were put forward. He has ruled out freedom of movement.
With this "red line" there is no such thing as a "soft as it can be brexit"
Revocation is certainly odds-on but that's like saying my brakes will probably work if I race full speed towards a cliff edge and pull the levers 2 secs before reaching it. I'd prefer to have a higher certainty before taking the risk.
So non of you actually have any quotes from Corbyn saying he wants a hard brexit. Just the usual made up nonsense. some of that whipping was ill advised, some of it was intended to back May into a corner, some was for political advantage
On a related topic Starmer spent a fair bit of time yesterday doing the chat shows to get the labour positio across. How much reporting of that was there?
TJ, do you seriously dispute that he has ruled out freedom of movement?
That's your hard brexit right there.
Actions speak louder than words TJ
I’d prefer to have a higher certainty before taking the risk.
So would I and many others but you have to go through the motions and try to get a deal even in the knowledge that a deal is never going to get through. That has to go to the last minute to make it credible that a deal was sought. The job then is for the party to spin it (EUs fault) to limit their own damage but it may be too late for that!
Sorry TJ, but he's a hard brexiteer. The votes and the statements against FOM can only be read one way.
Corbyn never got behind the remain campaign & never really argued either way, he's sat on the sidelines throughout.
I do think he's good at what he does, in terms of his arguments & how he conducts himself. However I always got the impression he wanted Brexit.
You guys are so funny
Corbyn campaigned hard for remain. He spoke at more public meetings to more people than any other remain campaigner. He has been consistent in his approach throughout that a hard brexit would be hugely damaging but you all prefer to infer utter nonsense about his position from very limited info, refuse to see the political compromises he had to make to try tokeep a badly divided party together and believe the anti corbyn propaganda in the press.
Its laughable.
a hard brexit would be hugely damaging
He has ruled out freedom of movement.
That's hard brexit.
The votes and the statements against FOM can only be read one way.
They clearly can be read multiple ways since that's what's happening here. Poor argument. For a change I actually side with TJ here. I think the anticorbs are seeing what they want to see more so than the procorbs.
First google hit for me
"freedom of movement will have to end, the shadow Brexit secretary has said."
They clearly can be read multiple ways since that’s what’s happening here.
OK, what's your read on his support for ending FOM?
Looks like the 48 letters are in - and whips are being told to get MPs to the Common today (they'd usually have constituency business on Fridays).
We could be in for an interesting day!
Anyone else resigned in the last 15mins 🤣
I really don't see how his history of whipping the party on brexit votes can be read in any other way than what actually happened.
Seems unimaginable that Gove will stay...and the moment he goes, things get almost impossible for May.
Breakfast TV this morning: Vox pop of folk in Bolton - most seemed to voice considered opinions.
Then on comes what I think was a Labour MP and seems to suggest that they can win an election and renegotiate the brexit deal in four months. I may have misunderstood.
Unicorns! Unicorns EVERYWHERE!
Its laughable.
Totally agree. The cult of anti-Corbynism is a powerful thing. The more I read and hear from his critics the more I think they are far more obsessed by him than his supposed acolytes. It really is an interesting phenomenon. For my own part I'm genuinely bemused at why such an unimposing, inoffensive and quite frankly boring personality stirs such passions.
I think the anticorbs are seeing what they want to see more so than the procorbs.
This is bollocks. I voted for Labour for the first time at the last election because of Corbyn and his transformation of Labour policy on domestic issues so that it much closer matches what Labour members want. What I WANT TO SEE is Corbyn dropping his support for Brexit and saying that if we got a Labour government that it would offer us the chance to vote to stop it. And, in the meantime, that in opposition, Labour support a public vote to stop it.
Whatever labour said in 2017 is irrelevant just as TMS red lines are irrelevant.