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It is perhaps not quite legally certain we could revoke A50 unilaterally but we can certainly assert our choice to do so and see if anyone tries to prevent it. The govt has refused to reveal its legal advice on the subject, which is undergoing a legal challenge of some sort.
Funny you should say that.
I don’t know if this makes me a bad person or not, but as someone who’s loathed the whole idea of Brexit since it began, I’m now taking rather a lot of pleasure in watching the negotiations fall apart together with the Tory Party and the DUP.
There is something very British about wanting everyone to fail when we don’t get our own way. Look at the anger there is when people have better cars, jobs, houses etc. and the associated jealousy.
part of me wants to see the whole mess blow up if it would not mess people up so much
A good aarticle by Andrew Rawnsley in yesterdays Observer
Will Mays 'Basstards' really risk destroying their own government?
I think they probably will, yes. The anti EU brigade are just zealots. Its like an article of faith for them. I don't think theres anything they won't destroy to achieve their unhinged ambition, as we're all about to sadly find out
and it looks like Astra Zeneca have pulled the plug, at least for now.
What's this? A voice of reason in these dark days? Surely not....
https://news.gov.scot/speeches-and-briefings/first-minister-speech-at-the-rsa
But SNP....oh the irony!
You can only paint yourself into a corner so far before you realise that your options are limited.
It's like the most rubbish game of chess ever. Opponent refuses to quit and keeps shuffling the king around for no reason.
and it looks like Astra Zeneca have pulled the plug, at least for now.
Not news. Simply reaffirming position taken last year regarding manufacturing cap ex. Their new R&D site in Cambridge continues to be developed.
I know<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">some people at Medimune, who were supposed to be in there already, but construction delays have been a problem. Not enough EU builders can't help !</span>
But both them & GSK are having to invest in parelell sites in EU.
So the BBC news has reported that the backstop is agreed, but they couldn't announce it yet as the DUP would then vote against the budget. Once thats out of the way, they'll make it public and basically dare them to bring down the government. All while most of the cabinet meet up to plot against May
So once again the future of the country takes a distant second place to the internal machinations of the Tory party clinging on to power by their fingertips
What I find terrifying is that potential chaos, or otherwise, and our countries economic future lies at the mercy of people like Arleen Phillips, Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey. I've got items of furniture with brighter intellects, and probably more humanity
I’ve got items of furniture with brighter intellects
You should tell the government, they could probably use a decent new cabinet.
Frankie Boyle delivers as usual.
Pharma qc testing will be dead in this country within 5 years I think.
Mhra has said it will accept testing performed within the eu for the uk, but Europe will not accept the reverse.
Hence all the companies are creating labs in the eu and once the filing updates are in then testing will transfer. No point duplicating resource. It is a big reason why I am now working on other roles as this will stuff my job
Graham, where are you going? I'm in QA - so bricking it right now as well.
I've started a Statistics graduate certificate, but I'm seriously thinking of packing in my job and taking something easier or more closely related to statistics (even something as shit as a data cleanser) - so I can get on with my move. Rip the plaster off etc?
I would move to Ireland right now, but I have a year to go before my missus gets her British passport - which we really need for some stability 🙁 I figure by then, it will be to late to get into the EU.
Above site hopefully, aiming for an oversight role so can be based anywhere. The labs will be toast though. Am lucky as I have a high enough profile and a good enough development plan to be able to get me out before it goes pear shaped I hope.
But who knows really.
I guess QA has an oversight role and I can do a lot of it remotely, I'm just nowhere near the QP level yet and they're all going to get turfed out to Europe anyway.
What would you be doing if you were a QA Officer with 2 years experience and 5 years in total in the Pharma industry?
Looking bad for accademia too
Life sciences funding is crap enough already!, but double whanmmy of brexit & immigration controls hurting uni recruitment & even giant funders like Welcome threatening to scale back.
Outside of Life sciences even worse, accademic funding for UK archaeology is 40% EU, chances of govermnment funding tha,post brexi
intentionally or not brexit is damaging UK research
The EU new mega-battery plant plans would surely have had the UK on the shortlist 🙁
Unravelling now
What would you be doing if you were a QA Officer with 2 years experience and 5 years in total in the Pharma industry?
Brush up on languages or retrain/translate your skills.
No reason you couldn't get roles abroad, also no reason it will go immediately either. I see a lot of roles coming in the eu over the next few years. It does depend on what happens as with everything
Unravelling now
Inevitable.
May doesn't have the support she needs to push through a backstop agreement (never mind an outline plan for our future relationship with the EU).
This was never going to be a surprise. Cannot imagine what they were thinking.
Awesome news there I'm sure the grown ups are just on a well deserved half term break and will be back next week to sort it all out....
In other news my phone works great here in Germany, I didn't need a visa to get to this conference unlike the last one I went to with a long immigration chat.
Shame really that nobody can tell me why this is worth throwing away.
Surely this cannot actually be delivered? Has no-one yet realised that it's basically asking the impossible from the incompetent and apart from a ridiculous "will of the people" thing from 2 years ago there is actually not the appetite for it any longer, the catastrophic harm far outweighs any "good" and someone should just take over all the news channels for a week and put out some actual real statistical facts and then say "you were all conned, we're staying and that's final"
Then maybe concentrate on that minor thing of running the country...
Or is that too sensible?
Cheers Mike and Graham - I guess I would love to move nearer to the alps, time to brush up on my French and German. Just in case it all goes wrong over here.
agreed, i wish someone would give the news organisations a bloody good shake. cathy newman down at some leavers conference last night - why? she stood there and listened as some DUP knobber said ' in the event of no deal, who will put up a boarder? the british have said they won't, the irish have said they won't, and if all those years of the troubles have taught us one thing, it's that no amount of surveillance, closing roads, or army watchposts can keep that boarder secure'. there wasn't even a hint of her saying anything like 'well if you're to fall back on WTO we, UK and Eire, need to enforce a boarder, so 'do nothing' isn't a solution, is it? you're just a fantasist or a lier, which is it?'
heaven forbid these talking heads should actually give these idiots a hard time. jesus!
I’m sure the grown ups are just on a well deserved half term break and will be back next week to sort it all out….
We're all awaiting tentatively for the redemption of THM and he can save us from this awful fate 😉
People's vote march in London on Saturday.
I'm unable to go, somewhat annoyingly. I missed the last one as well.
Disappointed to miss the opportunity to annoy the government.
“The Prime Minister will once again be barred from the main discussion of Brexit at the summit, and will have to address the 27 leaders ahead of their dinner in a separate room.”
From The Independent’s piece on tomorrow’s meeting...
No reason you couldn’t get roles abroad,
Err - have you actually been following this Brexit thing? Does the phrase "end freedom of movement" mean anything to you?
I guess I would love to move nearer to the alps, time to brush up on my French and German.
Yes I'm.sure you will find an employer who will give you money while you can't work properly til you learn the language.
Here we go even the thick as "s" Brexiteers starting to get "nervous" all that bravado is fing off very rapidly.
Not much in life boils my piss but people who talk the talk then * off when it comes time to stand up convert my internal rage to external physical rage.
I for one am calling them out (on a personal level) each time i run into a brexit * wit.
Spineless shites.
Ah, yes. The Cameron Effect.
Shame really that nobody can tell me why this is worth throwing away.
I have seen two BMWs catch fire this week , their engineering (global sweeping statement set to an orchestral sinister soundtrack) has gone down the pan
And for that reason I'm out.
I may just go full "falling down"
F me i just dont get how thick people are...
Its sad really sad i mean really *ing sad.
We as a country dont stand a cat in hells chance of making progress while these people exist.
I am not even sure they have any form of reasoning. They are not safe with a box of matches.
Surely this cannot actually be delivered
Yep this is what I have been thinking since, well, just after the vote really.
Now I am not in the government machine, someone may be along to tell me differently, but I think the only thing that can be delivered in March by UK is a soft brexit (SU&CM / BINO). Or Remain.
Raab has alluded to this himself by saying that even in the event of a no deal Brexit, we will not impose border checks UK side. Yeah I know we won't Dominic. Because it's patently obvious that we can't! So much for control, eh?
I am not so sure EU would stand any much better of a chance applying a hard border in March either (though definitely a better chance than we do, because they are so much less ****witted than us)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/false-promises-brexit-john-major
Major absolutely nails it
I understand the motives of those who voted to leave the European Union: it can – as I well know – be very frustrating. Nonetheless, after weighing its frustrations and opportunities, there is no doubt in my own mind that our decision is a colossal misjudgment that will diminish both the UK and the EU. It will damage our national and personal wealth, and may seriously hamper our future security. It may even, over time, break up our United Kingdom. It will most definitely limit the prospects of our young.
People’s vote march in London on Saturday.
I fly out to see my dad in Spain at crack of sparrows fart on Sunday with wife and kids. I'm going on a march for the first time in my life because this is really important - I don't want to see my children's future blighted by the incompetence of the current government, I believe in the EU as a force for good. I've seen it dramatically improve the lot of people in Eire and Spain. I've talked to Canadians about the carrot and stick that ended the Yugoslavian civil war - Nato force and EU aid if you did the right thing.
just leave without paying the bill we said....
Err – have you actually been following this Brexit thing? Does the phrase “end freedom of movement” mean anything to you?
The poster is in pharma aren’t they? I’ve only seen the pharma through the scientists world of work via friends (not me, I’m an oik) but it appears to be an incredibly mobile workforce. Lots of scientists making it into and out of the EU very easily, although the ones I’m thinking of in particular are very highly skilled or working towards PHDs. Not sure how mobile the rest of the sector is? Maybe Kimbers can answer that?
At first glance though, if you’re prepared to move it looks one of the better sectors if you want a way out of the U.K. (whatever is left of it when we reach the gammon lit uplands)
Out of curiosity, has anyone seen Jambalaya? Did he give up with this thread or is he preoccupied with moving himself and all his assets back to the U.K. from France?
Did he give up with this thread or is he preoccupied with moving himself and all his assets back to the U.K. from France?
By moving assets back to the UK I am sure you mean offshore to a stable haven. And by relocating himself I am sure you mean applying for citizenship of an EU country....
it is the sensible thing to do...
but it appears to be an incredibly mobile workforce
There is of course a big difference between being in a country on a job related visa and having the right to be there.
I think someone has turned the bots off,THM is on extended leave,jamba doesn't seem to have been on for months,and it's 2 months since ninny was on,being rude about gay pride. Only our resident fake East Asian is still actively posting,and he's pretty quiet these days.
but it appears to be an incredibly mobile workforce
And a big difference for a company between you having the right to work somewhere and then having to employ visa lawyers sand provide guarantees to individuals and government agencies.
It creates a small but significant psychological step for the company in terms of commitment but also creates a potential slave master relationship between the employee and employer as the employee can’t say boo to a goose as loss of work means deportation...
That’s a valid issue with the right to live somewhere.
The slave/master thing isn’t something I recognise amongst those I’m thinking of. If it’s not working out for them they just move. That’s not something I imagine most have the luxury of doing.
Tiny segment of the workforce so more or less irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Out of idle curiosity does anyone has statistics on the emigrant workforce and exactly what it is they do?
And a big difference for a company between you having the right to work somewhere and then having to employ visa lawyers sand provide guarantees to individuals and government agencies.
And then there is the matter of your spouse and kids also having the right to move with you.
One of my colleagues - a very highly skilled person from outside the EU but working in the UK - has not been able to see her daughter for months as she was not able to get a visa to travel with her.That will be the default position for everyone post-Brexit, in both directions.
The slave/master thing isn’t something I recognise amongst those I’m thinking of. If it’s not working out for them they just move. That’s not something I imagine most have the luxury of doing.
The US is the leader in this. My visa stated that in the event of me losing employment I had 24hrs to leave the country and my visa was non transferable to any other company. The employer had all the power. It is the nature of that country though. My visa to OZ was far less restrictive... I have the masters, PhD and am supposedly highly skilled and have worked around a bit. Nothing can replace freedom of movement for simplicity and lack of stress.
our resident fake East Asian
🤔?
This commentary by Lib Dem MP David Chalmers on the Save Brexit Roadshow sums up the totally depressing nature of Brexit
The old stealing the future of the young
If it’s not working out for them they just move
As said, not that easy if you have kids or want a stable existence. Easy enough for young people or couples.. well, maybe.. I mean if you have one person as the main breadwinner fair enough but if you both have highly skilled jobs based on visas it's not great; if one of you loses your job the other has to quit too.
And then there's the issue of spouses not being eligible to stay, as mentioned above. It's shit, and it will make it far less attractive and more stressful for those wishing to work here.
I looked into working in the US for a while and despite being a skilled worker it was basically not possible to just get a job there as noone wanted the hassle of sponsoring me and proving they needed me and not someone local. Essentially migration will only be available to the elite, or fruit pickers and cleaners.
Most of us will be stuck here for good.
Essentially migration will only be available to the elite,
Or to give power to corporations who can dangle carrots
Sorry Woppitt,is chewkw a real person ? Have you met him ? I'd guess he would stand out in Cramlington.
This whole Ireland thing
Why not just give Ireland to the Irish?
yeah that doesn't go down well with those who consider themselves more british than the Queen.
You mean "Briddish".
So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement
So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement
Well I guess you could implement it with a NI-GB border <= vetoed by DUP
or whole UK staying in (a) CU <= breaks EU "4 freedoms" and not liked by rabid Brexshitters
One of the scariest things about the whole Brexit process is just how glib the Brexit headbangers are about the continuing peace (or not) in Ireland.
They just don’t understand what it was like before. More importantly, as with so many other things, they don’t seem to want to understand either.
Just something else to be sacrificed on their rabid anti-EU alter
just leave without paying the bill we said….
Assuming we even could, there's a big problem with this that no-one's talking about.
It's being thrown around like it's a punitive charge we have to pay in order to leave. It isn't. It's money we owe due to existing commitments we've agreed to and we'd have to pay it irrespective of whether or not we leave (or indeed if we hadn't had the referendumb in the first place). It's like cancelling a mobile contract early, you'd have to pay off the rest of your contract in order to leave but it's money you'd still have had to pay if you'd stayed on with your contract.
So, we're talking about reneging on a deal we've already agreed to. Right before we're going to be wanting to start negotiations for new bilateral deals with the entire rest of the world. Hands up who thinks that's a great idea? Our international reputation is already in tatters, if we do that no-one will ever trust us again. As how desirable our import / export capacity may or may not be, we're simply more trouble than we're worth.
THM is on extended leave
THM is on permanent leave.
As said, not that easy if you have kids or want a stable existence.
It's messier than that, as I understand it. To stay in the UK post-brexit you'll need a thing called Settled Status. This replaces the existing Permanent Residence. The gotcha? You cannot start applying for Settled Status until after we leave.
So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement
... as we've been saying on here for about a year, yeah.
They just don’t understand what it was like before. More importantly, as with so many other things, they don’t seem to want to understand either.
It's not solely about understanding. They just don't care. It's a price worth paying, remember.
They just don’t understand what it was like before. More importantly, as with so many other things, they don’t seem to want to understand either.It’s not solely about understanding. They just don’t care. It’s a price worth paying, remember.
There's nothing like war to boost an economy... or so the saying goes.
I suspect they don't care and even if trouble breaks out then I suspect some will be quids in.
What I'm appalled by is that on an issue of such importance to the future wellbeing of the nation and its population there is no-one checking the "grown-ups" working out. Does "Due Diligence" not apply to the Government?
Due diligence? This whole thing is being sketched out on the back of a fag packet as they go along
“Due Diligence” not apply to the Government?
Due diligence is currently on holiday with common sense.
Due Diligence is something you do to inform a decision. A50 has been invoked. We should have done the negotiating before triggering the process.
Sadly, Poiticians were in charge of that decision and as they demonstrate on an almost daily basis, they don’t have a ****ing clue what they’re doing. The terrifiying part is that their incompetence appears to completely unconscious - they believe they know what to do!
I've watched the likes of Peter Bone and other hardline Brexiteers with total incredulity at the level of their economic illiteracy. They don't seem to have the first idea of how the 21st century global economy actually functions. And whats genuinely terrifying is that this ignorance is wilful. Its the Gove 'we've had enough of experts' writ large. They simply don't want to know.
They literally believe they can turn back the clock to some mythical pre-globalisation age of empire, and when 100% of the evidence points to the impossibility of this, they simply stick their fingers in their ears and sing land of hope and glory.
The country is being held to ransom by total idiots who's economic incompetence should immediately disqualify them from being anywhere near political power. Who the * votes for these half-wits? Oh yeah... the same *ing morons who voted for Brexit!
Maybe we just start shooting them? Put them out of their brexit misery before the truth appears...
After all no one likes to see old folks suffering or confused.
Also in pharma here, used to work for a CMO in NI in a lab based method development role, just moved back to the UK to take up a project management role for the same company.
I worked on the logic (like others have said) pharma QC testing and lab work in the UK/NI is toast. We had clients turning down long term stability studies as we weren't sure if data generated in the UK would be accepted in Europe 5 years down the line when the stability testing was concluded. I wouldn't want to be a UK/NI based QP in a couple of years, don't think the future is too rosy there. Coupled with that, I didn't want to stick around to see how things pan out for NI, tensions were already beginning to ratchet up compared to a couple of years ago.
Not sure if moving into project was a wise move, when I was offered roles in the Republic instead, but the manufacturing side of things seems fairly buoyant at the moment. We're still quoting for and winning work. And project management is significantly more transferrable, hopefully!
For what it's worth, my company has been hemorrhaging European nationals at all levels since the referendum, and struggling to recruit to replace them.
The whole Brexit show is a farce.
The terrifiying part is that their incompetence appears to completely unconscious – they believe they know what to do!
The Dunning-Kruger effect is a wonder to behold.
From today's Grauniad
Draft French law preparing emergency measures for "hard" <span class="PrettyLink-prefix">#</span><span class="PrettyLink-value">Brexit</span>.
It has yet to be debated, but contains following clauses:
1. After no agreement Brexit, UK citizens become third nation citizens and will be obliged to have a visa to come to France and a carte de sejour to stay.
So the "move to France" strategy is not looking that helpful
- Merkel said there was still no breakthrough on the Irish border question.
- She said the German government is seriously preparing for a no deal scenario.
- She said there are very considerable concerns about the rights of British citizens in Germany and German citizens in the EU, with many questions still open.
- She said the German government is determined that members of the EU and non-members with a partnership agreement should not have the same rights.
So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement
THM is on permanent leave.
Boo. My only fragile solace was the thought of being able to turn to him as the bombs began to fall and say, "told you so".
THM is on permanent leave
Who shall I send the biscuits to?
The government asked people to name a boat but disregarded it as being too silly.
Still going around in circles here I see.
Unless something really dramatic happens, like the tory remainers launch a leadership election(unlikely, as they are cowards) we are crashing out of the EU the hard way. And for those that think "WTO will be fine" our special friend across the Alantic is in the process of decapitating the WTO, along with other international bodies such as the UN.
Trumps vision here is that international bodies interfere with the big bully boy nations such as the USA from getting what they want. Bodes well for little England post brexit.
The day Brexit comes into effect, will be the day we start to undo all that has been done.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is a wonder to behold.
One of the biggest problems is that we measure peoples ability purely on academic intelligence. If they have a degree in something, they must be bright right?
All too often I have run into people who are pretty good in the narrow field of their education, but are absolute sh*t for brains at virtually everything else. There are a very large number of these folk who we call MP's in Parliament at the moment.
And just to illustrate that ****wittery is not restricted to just the Tories, the Shadow Chancellor is claiming Labour would ‘fairly quickly’ negotiate a deal from this position.
Apart from their stupidity, the other major flaw with Politicians is their belief they must only say what the electorate wants to hear. Brexit was never, is not and never will be easy.
On the subject of Pharma, regarding QA/QC in the UK, post-Brexit. I don’t beleive it’s dead.
Companies simply cannot knee-jerk and the building the EU capacity takes time. I beleive we will see companies willing to take the short term hit on some duplication of release as long-term there will be mutual recognition.
It's a sad day when a Nazi quote can be applied to the UK (the brexiteers)
it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger