Seeing as for a lot of the people who voted for Brexit their last significant point of reference seems to be the second world war, it's hardly surprising they fail to appreciate 70 odd years of hard-won social progress.
They might do once the post-war settlement has been completely gleefully torn up by these shower of ****s and we're all effectively had our status reduced back to pre-1939 serfs and cannon-fodder again. Back to doffing our caps to Lord Rees Mogg for fear of being beaten for impertinence
Should companies be cancelling Christmas shut downs, or any other coordinated staff down time, and plan to close for the weeks following our current Leave date instead? This thought prompted by the Mini plant news… seems wise to me.
Think positive, holidays are a lot cheaper in April than august.
Should companies be cancelling Christmas shut downs, or any other coordinated staff down time, and plan to close for the weeks following our current Leave date instead?
Looks like BMW are thinking just that
I'm sure everyone else who actually makes anything will be thinking the same. I know I would be.
I'm sure the Daily Mail and the Brexiteers will soon be berating them for failing to believe, and no doubt tell them they should be looking for the opportunities present in the sunlit uplands of their vacuous Brexit stupidity
the end result will be that a majority of people in this country voted to be more like the US than Europe
We've been steadily adopting US ideas since the GIs came over with chewing gum and nylon stockings. Bloody sad.
What and which car parts do you think UK is making for BMW?
Minis and Rolls Royce engines.
What and which car parts do you think UK is making for BMW?
... and right on cue one of our resident brexiteers pops on to disprove any theory that they're all clueless and go about their business unencumbered by anything discomforting to their fantasies ... such as the real worldl.
You've noticed these around, right.....? Guess where they're made? Clue.... not Dusseldorf....
Radio 5 Live have just had a woman on from Sunderland who owns a nailbar, has a husband who works at Nissan, and who both voted brexit. In summary:
- She doesn't know how the EU affects her, but believes we need a change as the country is in 'disrepair', and if you don't vote for it when you get the chance, change will never come.
- The country is broken because money stays in London, too many people are coming in, and there's not enough services to cope with them
- She thinks the EU pass laws which negatively affect us, but doesn't know what the are.
- A lot of the supplies for her business come from Europe, she hasn't really thought about how brexit might affect that, but assumes/hopes she'll be able to get the same supplies from a UK supplier.
- She's not worried about her husband's job because in the time it takes Nissan to move their business, we'll probably have a trade deal sorted by then.
- She says she has no idea what might happen as a result of brexit but that 'it's a price worth paying'.
So there you go. A couple of valid points there abour regional funding/investment, underfunding of public services which have bugger all to do with brexit, and some ill-informed head-in-the-sandery. And I bet she was one of the more intelligent ones. I really do despair.
Radio 5 Live have just had a woman on from Sunderland who owns a nailbar, has a husband who works at Nissan, and who both voted brexit. In summary:
Yeah, I heard her too.
”...my husband works for Nissan. Yeah, he voted to leave too - he thinks it’s all just scaremongering...”
EDIT: I wouldn’t often wish unemployment on somebody, but my sympathy cup wouldn’t exactly overflow for that couple
Jesus wept...
You ought to listen to some of the rabid **** idiots who phone in to LBC-Nigel Farage show, every single one is ripe for a good slapping till they break down and say sorry
What I can't get my head around is the thought process that makes them think that the Tory party, probably then with one of the hardline Brexit headbangers at the helm, will use being unshackled from EU regulations as a perfect opportunity to improve the lives of people in Sunderland
I mean... seriously... WTF is going on in your head to reach that conclusion? Have you somehow missed the news, and everything that's gone on around you for the last 40 years?
What I can’t get my head around is the thought process that makes them think that the Tory party....
I can only assume that the people of Sunderland and their ilk are hoping to repeat history by voting in a socialist to provide them with the workers paradise they crave, but only after they have defeated the huns by supporting an upper class tory fascist and his imperialist fantasies.
Wired to a ****in beetroot.
Even the old, unionist daily mailers amongst the guys on the shop floor at work see through this pish.
We have JLR going to a 3 day week. Something we've not seen since the 70s???
BMW shutting a factory for a month
Where's THM to tell us the scaremongering is hyperbole???
BMW shutting a factory for a month
Where’s THM to tell us the scaremongering is hyperbole???
Car workers are not bankers and hence of no interest.
However messy it gets, just remember: it's not as bad as some people misreported that someone who's no longer even in politics once said it might be.
BMW shutting a factory for a month
TBH they’re bringing their summer shutdown from July to April, then it’s probably let’s see what happens next
Let’s see what happens next?
The cornerstone of any successful national economic strategy
Maybe that needs writing down the side of a bus?
BMW should get that woman from Sunderland and her husband in for some brexit planning consultancy. I'm sure it'll be fine in the end. Just like Donald Trump, you just have to hope there are 'adults in the room'. What is of interest though, is when the fudge comes, as it surely will, how will the people react? I have no idea, it could be anything from an apathetic shrug to all out insurrection. I'm sure Theresa May will be very upset at the though of Sunderland in flames.
On behalf of other makems, I wish to make it clear that not all of us are that thick. Some get to share the collective brain occasionally.
I do think it would need something significant like Nissan announcing their relocation to get it into people’s heads what this is going to mean.
I do think it would need something significant like Nissan announcing their relocation to get it into people’s heads what this is going to mean.
Nissan warned of uncertainty if leave won yet Sunderland was one of the largest majorities for leave.
a price needs to be paid, Brexit needs to hurt, it needs to **** up peoples lives, sorry remainer folk (me included) but this thing has got to be painful.
Otherwise the Daily Mail, Jacob, Boris, Tim Wetherspoon et al will perpetuate the bollocks, it has to be laid bare for what it is.
We need to get to the point where there is no one left to blame...
WTO bring it on.
Whats happened to THM?
Boarding bob - IIRC there is a way of blocking PMs from people
Is that the brexit strategy? To bribe every multinational company to stay by stealing money from the public purse to the detriment of public services?
Well that and massive tax cuts for the city and any large donors... plus you can always buy support from the magic money tree. Don’t worry we can always borrow more, no one will stop us we are not Greece
there will be open “partnerships” for public services. Sold to the highest bidder, run for the lowest cost and squeezed for the highest profit. Usa stylee
Sold to the highest bidder, run for the lowest cost and squeezed for the highest profit. Usa stylee
Its the hard right idea of a mixed economy. Lemon socialism.
Socialise the costs and privatise the profits.
Boarding bob – IIRC there is a way of blocking PMs from people
Profile - Settings - Message Privacy and then add who you want to block.
THM, stop sending me PMs.
Wow, I’d always thought he was a bit weird, but even by his Mitty standards, that’s properly tragic.
a price needs to be paid, Brexit needs to hurt, it needs to **** up peoples lives, sorry remainer folk (me included) but this thing has got to be painful.
I think you have told us before that your are fairy well insulated from all of this. The stick never works.
Boarding bob – IIRC there is a way of blocking PMs from people
Done, cheers. (and you Drac)
I just re read my last post, I owe you an apology hot fiat, I didn't mean to refer to you directly, I was referring to the people of Sunderland in general. Sorry.
You're welcome. I've asked for a feature to be implemented to hopefully stop banned members from sending private messages.
@mattyfez absolutely no apology needed. We really are a town of knuckle dragging morons. I thoroughly despair at the stupidity.
Wow, I’d always thought he was a bit weird, but even by his Mitty standards, that’s properly tragic
He sent me a few when he was banned/on hiatus. All deleted. Weird chap
Q: What and which car parts do you think UK is making for BMW?
Drac : "Minis and Rolls Royce engines."
Binners "… and right on cue one of our resident brexiteers pops on to disprove any theory that they’re all clueless and go about their business unencumbered by anything discomforting to their fantasies … such as the real worldl.
You’ve noticed these around, right…..? Guess where they’re made? Clue…. not Dusseldorf…."
Rolls-Royce eschews British-built V12 engines
The 2014 Mini Cooper Is The Future Of BMW
^^^ Unless your source is much more accurate then the above car experts I rather trust these two articles.
As for Jaguar Land Rover ...
Financial times ... not sure if you can access it.
According to FT, the simple parts are UK sourced (looks low tech to me) while the rest of the important parts are manufactured in Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary, Ireland, France and Poland.
😀
Yeah I use ones from this year.
I got the creepy THM PM treatment too claiming he'd found a better No Homers forum that I wasn't invited to- I just told him to **** off, then he moved on to just casually dropping in "I know where you work" so thanks for the guidance on blocking. I feel sorry for the guy but I don't need to be dealing with that sort of thing.
People who's live are worse than ever want change, They saw Blair's Labour and now they are seeing Cameron/May's tory party and nothing is getting better so the government is not the answer for them.
May as well give Brexit a go as it can't be any worse can it...
What is of interest though, is when the fudge comes, as it surely will, how will the people react? I have no idea, it could be anything from an apathetic shrug to all out insurrection.
I don't see any mystery here. Most "people who voted for Brexit" will rect by looking for the next person or organisation to blame and a few someone's will emerge to blame the new "reason". You can even take a punt at these.
A stunningly simple example is the WTO ... why do we have to follow THEIR rules... why do they get to screw up our economy...
Why can't 'the government' find them a job... etc. ?
Why didn't leaving the EU magically replace our fish....?
Why has the government put prices up on basics?
Why is the EU treating us like we are no longer members?
THM got banned again? what for this time?
Send him a PM and ask.
THM got banned again? what for this time?
My guess? the continual trolling and the abusive posts
I'm a bit sad about that because this place can be a bit echo chambery at times...... but that said his constant trolling was very tiresome, even if occasionally some of the detail he provided was worth reading, even if you didn't agree with it.
But continuing by pm.... that is weird. In the 'STW is a bit like the pub' analogy, once you've decided to go home because the nuisance has got a bit much, if he then followed you out into the road and continued to argue with you, pretty soon someone would give him a real world slap.
5Live is doing brexit again on the Nicky Campbell phonein. It's bloody hilarious. Radio will never be the same again after this is all sorted.
Hearing about THM and his pm's makes me all nostalgic for fred/elfin....hang on!!!
My money is on a pay-as-you-go Brexit. Not enough details sorted by crunch time so we 'leave' but 'temporarily' stay in EU while shit is sorted. We continue to pay our contribution pro-rata but have no voting rights.
A Zombie Norway.
Would that be possible?
"I KNOW WHAT I VOTED FOR......I VOTED TO LEAVE"
It never fails to astound me that there are so many idiots out there
That 5 Live 'debate' was comedy gold. It seems the conclusion is that we should just tell Michelle Barnier where to stick it and then we waltz off into the sunset to re-establish the glory days of empire. SO LET'S JUST GET ON WITH IT!!!!
What planet do these people live on?
What planet do these people live on?
Many people just turn up for work, get paid, go home and spend that money. They don't look beyond those horizons and so the massive complexity of separating us from decades of integration with the EU and then establishing a way of dealing with the rest of the world don't exist. On face value I'd expect they might equate 'leaving the EU' to something like leaving a job, a house or a partner. You just say you're going and then off you skip, heading for pastures new and a fresh new start. Simple.
FWIW I'm not saying they're "thick", it's just not something that they concern themselves with. Same as many people aren't bothered about the latest sports news.
SO LET’S JUST GET ON WITH IT!!!!
I almost wish they would. I think I'm in agreement with whoever it was above who said this needs to play out and it needs to hurt. This issue around Europe will never be settled until the idiots see the other side. At the very least it should poison the reputation of the tories for a long time and keep them out of government. Interesting that it's 10 years since the financial crisis. We're still suffering the effects of that now and think we'll still be suffering the effects of brexit in 10 years time. This time though the people won't have the bankers or foreigners to blame.
This time though the people won’t have the bankers or foreigners to blame.
They'll just blame the EU of course. For decades.
They'll try, but this time it won't wash as it'll be very simple for the rest of us to say 'but this is what you voted for'. Assuming this forum survives another 10 years, I strongly suspect we'll be here on page 10,000 saying exactly this 🙂
I've already told all the brexiteers at work not to moan when it all goes tits up and they either get made redundant or have their taxes put up to pay for the massive debts that will be accrued from dealing with the fallout.
At the very least it should poison the reputation of the tories for a long time and keep them out of government.
What, in favour of a Labour opposition who aren't opposing Brexit, despite the impact it's going to have on living standards, GDP, tax take and ability to fund public services, worker's rights, environmental protections etc? I won't forgive that absolute shower for hanging back and hoping to capitalise on the fallout.
This explains the labour position quite well I think
What would you have them do? Oppose it and kill any chances of being elected, fully support it and kill any chances of being elected, or try to sit on the fence until events swing the scales to one side or the other? I reckon the labour party are playing it just right, and evidence of the last election would seem to support that.
It's ok, we'll be the 51st state of the USA before long...
51st state
As if that's bad thing, I'd trade dreary England for sunny Californian weather and rampant gun violence. 😀
Many people just turn up for work, get paid, go home and spend that money. They don’t look beyond those horizons and so the massive complexity of separating us from decades of integration with the EU and then establishing a way of dealing with the rest of the world don’t exist. On face value I’d expect they might equate ‘leaving the EU’ to something like leaving a job, a house or a partner. You just say you’re going and then off you skip, heading for pastures new and a fresh new start. Simple.
FWIW I’m not saying they’re “thick”, it’s just not something that they concern themselves with. Same as many people aren’t bothered about the latest sports news.
Maybe not 'thick', but that's a text book definition of 'ignorant' for me.
A bit of 'becoming an adult' for me was the lesson that if you are ignorant about something it is best to keep your mouth shut and hope to sidle out of the room at your first convenience. And certainly not vote one way or another about something you haven't got the first clue about. But then, ask a stupid question........
51st state
As if that’s bad thing, I’d trade dreary England for sunny Californian weather and rampant gun violence.
Good - then Scotland and wales can stay in the EU and little England can be kept for the little Englanders
The above clearly illustrate a point that unless you have an industry that you can practice or hone your skills or knowledge on, you will not be able to compete.
Take for example, the UK car industry where UK is only manufacturing low end stuff while those requiring high technological skills are maintained by the EU side. UK get the left over when it comes to having a place to hone their skills. Yes, look at my previous Financial Times link and look at the components UK car industry are manufacturing. Those are low end stuff that even 3rd world can make.
Your children future? What future if your children cannot even have a place to be trained and to apply their knowledge when all those highly skills sectors have gone to EU. Do you think your children can simply apply to get the job within the limited large organisation that control all the technology?
You are better off having own industry that might be 2nd to others but at least your children will have a place to be trained or greater chances to hone their skills at home.
Short-sightedness is an understatement in the EU system.
All hail the killfile. 🙌
^^^ Irrelevant concept. 😀
I too think it has to hurt. And the more the better. People have to be made aware of the consequences of their actions. And that includes the nation of the United Kingdom. It will be my children’s generation that’ will do the sufferOMG
My industry has been asked to stockpile medicines. A drug I am working on NOW will not have the UK agency as primary reviewer, as we will be post March 2019 by the time review is done, so the rapporteur has been switched. Big pharma is setting aside about 100M EACH as contingency based on who knows what agreements, and leaving the EMA.
Meanwhile I’m sat in a sunny holiday rental thinking about a foreign business consultancy, whilst drawing a final salary pension and changing nationality!
Goodness knows what will happen.
Most people are too thick and pigheaded to take any responsibility for the predictable consequences of their actions. The first cry will be "If only they'd done brexit properly it would have been fine", and then they'll move on to blaming the next scapegoat, be it EU citizens still living in the UK, muslims, or cyclists.
What future if your children cannot even have a place to be trained and to apply their knowledge when all those highly skills sectors have gone to EU.
Hang on… key manufacturing roles need to be inside the SM&CU, so let's be outside that, so that more key manufacturing roles get relocated to stay inside the SM&CU, and then we'll magically create new key manufacturing roles that don't need to be inside the SM&CU…?
Those that want it "to hurt"… you want to **** up the near future for my kids, just to make a political point? Nasty. Selfish. How about we look to work with the minority of people changing their mind, and stop or reduce this damage.
edit : Am I right in thinking that all those that have expressed the "it has to hurt" view in this thread are either retired, or close to retiring? If so, you're no better than all the retirees that voted for Brexit because "they don't mind if it hurts", in my opinion.
Take for example, the UK car industry where UK is only manufacturing low end stuff while those requiring high technological skills are maintained by the EU side. UK get the left over when it comes to having a place to hone their skills.
Your children future? What future if your children cannot even have a place to be trained and to apply their knowledge when all those highly skills sectors have gone to EU. Do you think your children can simply apply to get the job within the limited large organisation that control all the technology?
you haven't got the first ****ing clue about manufacturing or industry in general.
You are better off having own industry that might be 2nd to others but at least your children will have a place to be trained or greater chances to hone their skills at home.
what recent history example can we look at? how about lada for instance?
I think it is a bit naive to expect Leavers to say “ah ok I was completely wrong about that” when it all goes tits up. Being in denial of the facts is one of the main reasons they voted Leave in the first place.
Kelvin, not me. I want my two kids to engage economically in a vibrant European economy. One wants to be a pilot (under what regulations?), the other a scientist. But the country has decided on a course of action. The consequences of that action appear reasonably obvious to economically literate citizens. But the sad fact is that politics and politicians have let the country down.
I’m embarrassed by Brexit, as more than half of the people in my group are from mainland EU, highly skilled (PhD level) and wandering about their futures.
I can see where those that want it to “hurt” are coming from. Brexiteers are like your toddler who has smashed his toy in an exotic spresm of frustration with its drawbacks. And in smashing it, he may very well have hurt himself - and now he’s looking up at you to fix it - yes, you hope he’s learned a lesson, but because you’ll get more from love than hate, you’ll put a plaster on his wound and take the toy away and quietly fix it.
As for wishing economic hurt (as I did yesterday hearing about the Nissan employee that voted to leave), that will hurt us all as any economic damage will be paid for with more austerity, and no pain will be felt by the wealthy, be they Leavers or Liberal Elite remainers.
I think it is a bit naive to expect Leavers to say “ah ok I was completely wrong about that” when it all goes tits up. Being in denial of the facts is one of the main reasons they voted Leave in the first place.
The other main reason being they were given something to blame other than themselves.
Quite honestly, it's like the flat earthers ....it's something they WANT to believe ... denial of the facts is half of it but when all else fails blame "The Conspiracy".
I'm in a bar where a Belgian has just ordered his lunch from a Spaniard in English.Really we should should be running the EU like it's our own personal money pot.
The opportunity of a lifetime missed.
The uk. The Pete Best of Europe.
I’m embarrassed by Brexit, as more than half of the people in my group are from mainland EU, highly skilled (PhD level) and wandering about their futures
There are are lots of jobs in the world. The UK does not pay enough for scientists and engineers to have then jump through the same hoops that the US or Australia make them. Once we lose the welcoming attitudes people will not come...
mind you if the salaries do go up to match the US I would come back. Like for like tile for me at the moment would require 80-90% increase in UK salary... still this was one of the Brexit hopes to raise the salaries of the workers
I think it is a bit naive to expect Leavers to say “ah ok I was completely wrong about that” when it all goes tits up.
To be fair, I think a fair few will. Not the racist buffoons, but the people who just didn't know what it was for and wanted a better NHS.
Anyway, re the immigration proposal - they want to let foreigners compete with our clever people for high skill jobs, but keep all the low skill ones for Brits. Hmm....
Chewkw now appears to be making an argument for remaining in the EU.
He’s been dong that a bit recently.
Odd.
Kelvin, not me. I want my two kids to engage economically in a vibrant European economy. One wants to be a pilot (under what regulations?), the other a scientist. But the country has decided on a course of action.
I'm sure they'll be happy picking fruit.
To be fair, I think a fair few will. Not the racist buffoons, but the people who just didn’t know what it was for and wanted a better NHS.
On the whole don't you think those that are going to would have done so already?
It's a question btw.... it just seems to me that on the whole most would either have realised by now and either looked for more reasons to justify their decision or changed their view?
I notice amongst FB the SAME thing being used completely differently...
EU/Junkers whomever say "no we won't accept X,Y,Z" and remainers are "told you so"... and brexiters use the exact same event/statement as "See this is why we need to leave"....
Personally I just find the "told you so" is just unproductive even though that's what I'm thinking. It's not going to change anyone's view... and just ends up with "this is exactly why we need to leave"....
Those that want it “to hurt”
I don't want it to hurt. If I had my choice we'd never have held the referendum and stayed in. Even now I'd be very happy for it to be cancelled, no matter if that results in civil unrest or whatever else happens, it'd be a price worth paying. My point was that if this issue is ever to be settled, it has to hurt so that the people who voted for it change their minds. Is that possible? I have no idea. Like others I strongly suspect they'd find some other scapegoat rather than take responsibility themselves.
I will however admit that I will have little sympathy for those like the lady in Sunderland and her husband if they lose their jobs and end up poorer. I'll have even less sympathy for the people like my work colleagues who voted out even though they are intelligent professionals (there are lots of them). I have most sympathy for the young (obviously), but even then they have to realise that if they want something, they need to fight for it, rather than moaning on facebook about how unfair it is that old people are so rich. In the end everyone will get what they deserve, which at the moment in this country is very, very little.