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I think his point is shut up and stop complaining
aka "talking down the clock"
i hope your kids don’t believe your second para ^.three hours ago
The old Tory self-reliance thing? Ah yes.. everything you do is down to you, right? The fact we've had free movement rights stripped from us doesn't make a difference at all, does it? If you fail it's always your own fault isn't it?
Yep who are you going to employ in Europe, an EU citizen with zero paperwork or the UK one who needs a visa.
Nobody is saying it's impossible it's just got harder, more restricted and rights have been lost.
That is not exaggeration, that is fact.
If you are currently working out there you have to be questioning what your future holds now. Same as migrants doing a lot of good work in the UK.
But of course the problem is we are not all cheering it* on.
*We will let you know what it was later, but please keep cheering
Not at all I am fully in favour of freedom of movement. Always have been, always will.
I have just employed two non EU citizens despite the visa requirements and I lost one person to somebody else who had to sort out his visa. No dogsbodies, no abuse, no crappy agencies, no crumbs.
Well done, but as you cheer on Brexit it's one of the things that can go easily. You seem to be missing the link there.
If Freedom of Movement is off the table come the deal will you still support it?
Edit - What was the salary range for these 2? Ball park will do? How close to minimum wage was it?
Not at all I am fully in favour of freedom of movement.
How is that achieved post-Brexit?
You are exagerating again. I voted remain. I do not cheer on Brexit. But I know it’s going to happen and I don’t believe in BSing about what will happen
FoM was always off the table - but in truth it doesn’t exist properly in Europe anyway. Shame
No way near I pay people very well. Try to pay above average to get better people. Always have, always will.
It wont SoM. We lost the vote and FoM
No way near I pay people very well. Try to pay above average to get better people. Always have, always will.
Right, explains a bit, your dealing with ex pats not immigrants looking for work who FoM actually really benefited. I wouldn't expect you to understand how average people manage or deal with this sort of stuff or how the freedom has enriched a lot more people.
Untrue. You do exaggerate. To repeat I fully suppprt FoM. But that puts me in a minority, even among remainers. If you want to keep making things up, then so be it. Your perogative.
find one post anywhere here where I have been against FOM - good luck
I have just employed two non EU citizens despite the visa requirements
But how many people from their countries wishing to come to the UK did NOT get visas?
You're really missing the point here.
I voted remain. I do not cheer on Brexit. But I know it’s going to happen and I don’t believe in BSing about what will happen
Simply put you have given in. Plenty of other have not. Plenty of us expect that no meaningful deal will be reached, nothing that satisfies anybody. That is when the fat lady starts to sing. Not now.
7 months to go and then we will know things for certain about what we all lose. But every scenario is lose for people.
Lets see how support for remain changes, lets see what the people are thinking by Christmas.
Yes I am mol.- your point is to massively exaggerate what will happen. Look at your second para earlier on - dogsbody and exploitation etc 😳
I am very happy to miss this point. More than that. Reject it totally
Given in!! Brilliant.
Look at your second para earlier on – dogsbody and exploitation etc
I was a young software engineer when I was trying to get work in the USA. I searched for jobs all the time, every single advert said 'we will not sponsor visas'. I think the only possibilty I had was BUNAC, which is not really a substitute for a career in software engineering. Like I said, crumbs.
The point is that whilst my kids MAY have opportunities to do some job overseas, they will be far more restrictive than what's possible now. They might be able to clean chalets for a year, but a good job in say, project management, is pretty unlikely.
Well let’s hope you are wrong mol because apparently lots of bankers are going to have to up roots and move to Europe to do their jobs. Thousands and thousands of them. The city is going to be empty, so im told.
the French, Germans Irish and Dutch are bending over backwards to accommodate them - Wilkommen nach Frankfurt, Bienvenue a Paris...
You're only trolling yourself now. Have fun.
You’re really missing the point here.
Not missing it. Pretending it doesn't exist. Of course it's possible to hire non-EU people. We have many in our team. One has not seen her daughter for months because she was not able to get a visa. Will the same rules apply in future to workers from France and Romania? Who knows!
the French, Germans Irish and Dutch are bending over backwards to accommodate them
Ok so will they bend over backwards to accommodate me, or my kids? No, because they are only after a small group of people.
As I keep saying - you'll have to rely on luck in the future, rather than having a right. But you know this, you know we will have fewer opportunities to work abroad without FoM, that's the whole point. You're being deliberately contrary. You're apparently trying to show me that there will still be opportunities after Brexit. And of course there will - but FAR FAR FEWER. Like I said, crumbs.
Well let’s hope you are wrong mol because apparently lots of bankers are going to have to up roots and move to Europe to do their jobs. Thousands and thousands of them. The city is going to be empty, so im told.
My my wife recently set up a small P.E office in Luxembourg as a direct result of brexit, no employees moved from the London office all recruited locally. Jobs leaving the uk in preparation for brexit
Well “good luck” to you and you kids mol if that’s what it will take. Fingers crossed hey
Not much else I can do except railroad my kids into a high value career that is more mobile, regardless of whether or not they want it....
Can't argue that visas are slower & more costly outside of EU compared to recruiting & working within, as someone involved in this I can assure you it's major hassle & one of the many costs factored into project fear 2.0 .As would be the huge loss of funding for UK science & research
ERASMUS also still up in the air as well
That’s your choice mol. Personally I wouldn’t railroad them into anything.
But im confused why you would want to do that anyway since your argument is that there will be very few jobs other than cleaning chalets etc and non for skilled people like project managers. It would be odd to compound the problem by railroading kids in the wrong direction anyway wouldn’t it?
I’m pretty sure that not all of the 17,410,742 who voted to leave are racists, but I bet the percentage who hold racist views in the leave group vastly outnumber the percentage who hold racist views in the remain group therefore on the basis of probability I declare racists…..racists everywhere.
somafunk - as a slight digression, I think many people that you and other people would label racists are unfairly called as such. Personally I dislike the muslim faith, I have read the Koran and its full of hate. I am sure I fit into your pigeon hole of racist but the fact is I believe we are all equal regardless of skin colour, ethnicity, nationailty or how big your ears are. By the way, don't judge me unless you too have read the koran...
I’m going to sue you, but not in court.
hungyrhippo - the ecj serves the eu and its aim is to extend its powers and promote further integration. Anyone that sues the EU and is heard in the ecj has the odds stacked against them. We will be out of the EU by then and I would suggest an international court. I do admit I'm not an expert on this and have no idea whether it would be successful but I do wholeheartedly believe if we get kicked out of Galileo without so much as a bean then there will have been an injustice.
Not sure you’re thinking about this the right way (galileo). The EU paid for it, and it had the best EU brains working on it. It’s the EU’s – in the same way that what I create for my employer belongs to it, not me. The EU has the contracts, if they say we don’t have a right to it then we don’t have a right to it, end of. We could make a deal, of course, but that’s just another thing we have to do.
molgrips - by your logic we should not pay a penny of the divorce bill which would suit me fine.
Actually, this is important, so I’ll raise it as a separate question. Roughly rounded:
17 million people voted to leave the EU.
16 million people voted to stay in the EU.
Can anyone explain to me why the 17m is “the will of the people” and must be obeyed at any cost, whereas the other 16m is “yeah, **** those guys.” ? Where in any of the great leaver plans is any consideration being given to the wishes of the other half of the voters?
“Something something democracy” suddenly becomes “we won, you lost, get over it, remoaners.” In what flavour of democracy is it acceptable to attempt to bully half of the electorate into silence?
cougar - Its a vote, the majority wins, which part of that do you not understand? There will always be losers in a vote (especially sore losers like you, you're behaving like the spoilt kid at school that lost at marbles). No ones bullying anyone, but just because a minority voted a different way doesn't mean we should call the whole thing off. Nothing would ever get done ever if a vote required unanimity.
Can you point to where in the European Union Referendum Act 2015 it says that please.
As a hint you wont be able to.
I'm well aware of this dissonance, I know it wasn't written in law. But that doesn't mean that democracy should be subverted.
Non-EU migration is not open to everyone. You have to qualify for it. Before I was married to an American I looked into trying to move to the US. Now, you might say that tens of thousands of people migrate to the US every year, so why not me? Well, the list is long. You only qualify for certain reasons, and despite being highly skilled in a demand area, I qualified for none of them. So you cannot simply decide to go – you ALSO need to have a way in, and these are most emphatically NOT open to everyone.
I think you might be overegging this molgrips. Yes you won't have an automatic right to roam and settle in an EU country but you stated your wish or some kids wish was to work in the EU, I'm sure this will be a formality and the EU countries won't be as strict as the US I can guarantee that. If you are going there to be a liability on the state then I wouldn't blame them for not letting you or anyone else in.
Alright, but might the EU as a whole not be able to strike better deals than the little UK? Are the EU not pursuing trade deals with the E7? I thought the EU was meant to be neoliberalist? Surely they will be in favour of free trade if so?
Because as I've said many times on here before the EU is a protectionist racket and in an effort to protect their members exports they ramp up tariffs. If we are prepared to promote free trade there are potentially massive deals are on the table for the UK which is a net importer. Countries like the US and China and emerging economies could be big for us. The EU favours and protects producers over consumers (tariffs push up prices), which in turn helps the rich and not the poor. I've already detailed how the EU favours the multinationals over small businesses too.
Dickens - read the old testament ? Chunks are word for word the same as Koran, it's also full of hart & look at the efforts the church has gone to to cover up systematic child abuse.
Democracy - it didnt stop the day after the ref, especially relevant as polls show that the shambles of brexit have turned the people against it .
ECJ... Which international court will you sign up to ? Of course we'll no longer have UK judges sitting on ECJ & still have to follow it's rulings as our own high court judges have already said.
You have no guarantees you can offer molgrips , if your xenophobia is shared by the rest of the EU, it won't be easy.
Protectionism can be good, ask port talbot steel workers if they look forward to competing with Trump or Chinese steel imports without tarifs.
The rest of your tarif 'facts' seem to be sourced from rees-mogg & the Sun, both of whom had to apologize https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/the-sun-made-honest-mistake-over-inaccurate-brexit-tariff-calculations-which-received-four-ipso-complaints/
A little bit of knowledge, eh? 😉
The good people of Port Talbot were asked. The majority voted to leave the EU. Perhaps we should just ignore them?
Perhaps we should just ignore them?
Perhaps we could honestly explain the situation to them rather than promise them is will all be OK in the end and we will be rich because.
"We lost get over it"
Or keep making the case against the bullshit. Because, come what may next year, you can be sure that the political issues will still be much the same.
Of course, they're thick and don't understand, we know better. They should damn well do as their told shouldn't they. Why do we let these people have a say. It's a disgrace.
why don't we tell them the food will run out, there will be no medicines, they won't be able to go to Europe, there will be no nurses or bankers (yippee) and the sky will fall on their heads. That might work
What is it you want THM? Debate some issues, rather than using one narrow result as an argument to avoid debate.
Edit - you've added some excited waffle - is that also to avoid debate? Some things will be more difficult, or more expensive, or available to fewer people… nothing will stop completely (for long).
I prefer the European method of keep voting until the thickies get it right. You?
FWIW, debate is not ramming exaggerated fears down people's throats.
they’re thick and don’t understand, we know better
Your sarcastic point is actually the way you come across when you're replying or posting on here. We're all thick. You're the only grown up in the room. Etc etc.
Correct. It is waflle. Total waffle. Avoids correct debate doesn't it?
Of course, they’re thick and don’t understand, we know better.
Why do you insist in calling people thick or implying other people are?
You made it clear that lies and made up solutions won the referendum, the overly negative message of the truth wasn't effective.
The people of Port Tablot don't need people promising them the world and glossing over the rest of the problems. they need some good honesty. I've seen plenty of smart people taking in by the leave propaganda, it saves reading up on all the issues if it's presented right.
You also know the long media campaign against the EU that has been going on, the EU has been the scape goat for many politicians over the years who couldn't be bothered to help.
What I'm suggesting is to treat people with some respect and have the tough and honest conversation that will not make them happy.
I prefer the European method of keep voting until the thickies get it right. You?
Lots of examples of a follow up referendum on EU matters that left the vast majority of the population content with the aftermath of the second vote. Ireland is the example closest to home.
You missed the irony mike. Unlike you, I respect their decision rather than deride them. To force feed them doomsday BS would be treating them as thick. See above.
"The lies is your argument." Mine is that we failed to present a compelling vision of our future membership of the EU? We lied too. A lot. We told them that doomsday would start immediately after the vote. It didn't. We were dishonest and wrong.
i agree with treating people with respect. Respect their decision is a good starting point unless you are part of the EU elite of course. Then you ignore them.
THM, are the grown-ups still working behind the scenes and making sure everything will be ok? Because Lidington is indicating the October deadline will be missed and May is reassuring us that it quite literally will not be "the end of the world" if no agreement is reached. Which is perhaps not quite as reassuring as she meant, as it suggests she wasn't able to say it wouldn't be "pretty ****ing shit".
No they are all on holiday for a month. They’re pro European after all. Last chance to be European too.
Of course it will be missed. That’s the EUs objective from the start. And as you guys say. They hold all the cards here.
You missed the irony mike. Unlike you, I respect their decision rather than deride them. To force feed them doomsday BS would be treating them as thick. See above.
Not at all your post was lacking it really, just the same tired crap you like to post. Then you go and try and call anything that isn't pro Brexit as doomsday BS - it's not new and it's not that clever, bit like shouting FAKE NEWS every time you forgot about shagging a pornstar. There are a great deal of information that it would be good for people to take in and understand about the realistic implications of leaving the EU for peoples lives and workplaces.
But hey don't criticise anything, don't tell people the truth.
I'm guessing you have never been to a steel works before or spoken to many steel workers? They have been battered by successive governments and every time they asked for help somebody blamed the EU rather than take responsibility for their actions.
To repeat I fully suppprt FoM. But that puts me in a minority, even among remainers. If you want to keep making things up,
Have you got a source for that fact (that a majority of remain voters are against FoM) or did you just make it up?
Of course, they’re thick and don’t understand, we know better.
You've been trotting this bullshit strawman argument out for months. It wasn't true then and it wasn't true now.
Once more with feeling. The majority of the electorate - that's both sides of the argument, leave and remain - were ill informed before the referendum and knew very little about the UK / EU relationship beyond rhetoric. Since the referendum understanding has improved to varying degrees but it's still not great.
That's a far cry from the notion that all remainers are accusing all leavers of being thick, as you doggedly want to cling to.
Nice dissertation. But you still missed the basic fact. We asked them their opinion. They gave it. I accept and respect it, even if I disagree with it. You don’t.
Perhaps bob meant to refer to you and got mixed up?
“Patronising oik” Leading by example again cougs?!? There should be rules against that kind of thing.
Still don't get THM's point at all.
Its a vote, the majority wins, which part of that do you not understand?
I believe that a constitutional change (which effectively this is as I'm having rights removed from me) should only be effected if 66.6% or more vote for it.
We told them that doomsday would start immediately after the vote. It didn’t. We were dishonest and wrong.
Nope, the BoE dropped a shit-ton of cash into the economy to prop it up. That's why the crash was so limited.
No-deal is going to bugger the economy for 10-15 years, a deal probably for 5 years or so.
IMO, joining the EEA fits the narrow remit of the Leave win, and is the least disastrous economically.
We asked them their opinion. They gave it. I accept and respect it, even if I disagree with it. You don’t.
I respect their opinion. Before we embark on the final decision here and redefine a significant part of the UK's position in the world that the options are fully laid out and defined. The 3 options left are No Deal - that needs some serious explanation to people. The deal we get (Well it needs to be agreed first and then the implications explained) and option 3 those seem shit lets stay.
Again why would you not respect these people enough to hear their views on the options available 2 of which were hardly talked about during the referendum and the implications of each of them - like what the tariff on Iron Ore will be if we get back into the WTO or the tariff on steel etc.
If you can find where those facts were presented then let us see.
Still don’t get THM’s point at all.
Running down the clock. Distraction and delay. He's not got anything else, because he knows that brexit is/would be a terrible thing (if it ever happens) but while it is official tory policy (and the only thing stopping them from completely falling apart) there's no room for any dissent.
but while it is official tory policy (and the only thing stopping them from completely falling apart) there’s no room for any dissent.
That or they are seeing some room for profit. Since whilst the plebs are going to be screwed over the elites, on either side, will not.
“...the crash was so limited”
here we go mike. Apparently there was a crash. The biased media missed it so let’s make sure that the Port Talbotians are properly informed of that too. We wouldn’t want to mislead them.
Sorry captain. The labour policy is what?
Like I said, nothing but distract and delay. Textbook example.
The Labour policy is to watch from the sidelines in the hope that the tories will carry the can for this for the next several decades. Which is not something I support, but I can see the electoral thinking behind it.
Perhaps bob meant to refer to you and got mixed up?
“Patronising oik” Leading by example again cougs?!? There should be rules against that kind of thing.
Away back under your rock you absolute roaster
I respect their opinion.
I respect their opinion. It's a free country (for now) and they're entitled to think what they like. But I also recognise that it's just that, an opinion. It doesn't mean that anyone else has to pay them any heed or do what they demand. For that, you'd have had to have had a legally binding referendum with a required supermajority (and throw parliamentary democracy in the bin in favour of an ochlocracy).
Personally I dislike the muslim faith, I have read the Koran and its full of hate.
probably not for this thread, but that's a statement in of itself which needs unpacking!
I'd respect thm's opinion a lot more if it was delivered in video form on the shop floor of the port Talbot Steel works 🙂
So captain - when we talk to the Port Talbotians are we going to tell than that labour policy is to respect the decision and deliver Brexit or not! We know Corbyn won a greater share of the GE vote and is doing well in the polls so we need to be honest where we and they stand.
Happy to do that mike but I’m still trying the find the crash evidence.
But my task will be easy. I can go and tell them that I respect their vote. You have to stand there and tell them that they don’t understand what they are doing/saying. Very happy to watch that. I wouldn’t suggest using the word “thick” though. Skull attack isn’t just the name of a beer
Now, the crash....
Happy to do that mike but I’m still trying the find the crash evidence.
There is an old saying in the process improvement world, you ain't big enough to hold a stop watch.
Unless you plan to tell them it will all be fantastic of course and how it was the EU who caused all their problems.
Why would I tell them that?
Whould you address their concerns about how Brexit is being handled? The gap between what they were told they were voting for before the vote, and what they are being told retrospectively they all voted for?
Sorry captain. The labour policy is what?
More or less as you advocate - respect the vote and find jobs for the newly unemployed steel workers of Port Talbot on the unicorn farms of Brexitland.
And what happened to their share of the vote in the last GE and to their poll ratings subsequently while they advocate this policy?
from that how should democrats proceed?
October deadline will be missed and May is reassuring us that it quite literally will not be “the end of the world” if no agreement is reached.
It seems to me that May has already decided "No Deal" is her preferred approach. Hence the lack of any substantive negotiation. There really isn't enough time left for that now is there?
Anyhoo we are now promising lots of money to Africa to create jobs.... how will the swivel eyed take to that?
There is no clear relationship between those 2 things.
I just spoke to a mobile phone guy, I asked about making calls to Europe, he said fine at the moment but who know in the future. He then dropped in this little gem “ they will screw us I am sure”
We are the ones leaving for Gods sake. WTF is wrong with these people.
"They" being the mobile phone companies who loved screwing their customers for overseas use until the EU put a stop to it. It may be that they do not revert to the old ways. Three for example have "at home" rates for many countries beyond the EU.
I have read the Koran and its full of hate. By the way, don’t judge me unless you too have read the koran…
Now you're just being silly, no you haven't read the Koran/Qur'an. That's the sort of response i'd expect a child to blurt out.
I've not read it either yet i do have a few translations of the text but my Aunt (fathers sister) has made it her lifes work since finishing her Art degree and travelling to Afghanistan on her vespa in the late 1960's to study Islamic art (specifically Islamic calligraphy) and she has read it, she's also fluent in Arabic (including many of the dialectical differences) and she can hold her own with Persian and Hebrew.
If we're playing top trumps i've won (actually my aunt's won - i've done bugger-all apart from argue with a troll.....arse! - so that means you've prob won....Damn!!!)
Dickens – read the old testament ? Chunks are word for word the same as Koran, it’s also full of hart & look at the efforts the church has gone to to cover up systematic child abuse.
kimbers - yep read that too and its not much better. Assuming you're referring to the catholic church I completely agree. Its rotten to the core and has devastated lives. I just read that the pope has had a formal 11 page accusation against him for covering it up. Lets hope he gets hauled through the courts and put in prison if guilty.
Democracy – it didnt stop the day after the ref, especially relevant as polls show that the shambles of brexit have turned the people against it .
Polls are not a referendum and polls are notoriously inaccurate.
ECJ… Which international court will you sign up to ? Of course we’ll no longer have UK judges sitting on ECJ & still have to follow it’s rulings as our own high court judges have already said.
I dunno theres a few of them. The ECJ isn't the only supranational court in the world. I have admitted I know little about the subject of countries making court cases but there's no doubt in my mind that if we don't get a bean from galileo it will be an injustice.
The rest of your tarif ‘facts’ seem to be sourced from rees-mogg & the Sun, both of whom had to apologize <span class="skimlinks-unlinked"> https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/the-sun-made-honest-mistake-over-inaccurate-brexit-tariff-calculations-which-received-four-ipso-complaints</span>/
I have no idea why you've posted that article, I've never read it (nor would I waste my time reading the sun) and have never made any claims of specific amounts by which prices will drop. I did say prices will drop though and the corrected article goes on to say that so if you were just reinforcing my point then thanks.
Protectionism can be good, ask port talbot steel workers if they look forward to competing with Trump or Chinese steel imports without tarifs.
So kimbers - are you telling me that you support Trump in his steel tariffs?
Why do you insist in calling people thick or implying other people are?
mikewsmith - THM is absolutely right, I can think of at least one on here that described leave voters as "***wits" and I'm pretty sure I could find a whole load more if I could be bothered.
TBH, I just parsed it as “no you haven’t.”
No-one reads an entire religious book such as the Quran from cover to cover and then declares that they dislike that faith, not unless either a) they were forced to read it, b) they’re a theological scholar, or c) they’re some sort of masochist or sociopath. We can probably rule out a) as I’d guess that anyone who was forced to read it is unlikely to be in a position to be openly critical, and if b) were the case I’d have expected him to be able to spell it correctly.
Believe what you will. I started reading it years ago as I was interested to know what it was all about. Its a huge part of our culture now and also a huge part of the news. I would urge everyone to at least scan through it.
So cougar I'm a patronising oik, masochist and a sociopath... Pretty sure you called me a dick as well at some point. At least when I insult people I use my imagination (I'm particularly proud of likening woppits intelligence to that of the whitehead spot that was forming on my left buttock that day...).
Now you’re just being silly, no you haven’t read the Koran/Qur’an. That’s the sort of response i’d expect a child to blurt out.
I’ve not read it either yet i do have a few translations of the text but my Aunt (fathers sister) has made it her lifes work since finishing her Art degree and travelling to Afghanistan on her vespa in the late 1960’s to study Islamic art (specifically Islamic calligraphy) and she has read it, she’s also fluent in Arabic (including many of the dialectical differences) and she can hold her own with Persian and Hebrew.
If we’re playing top trumps i’ve won (actually my aunt’s won – i’ve done bugger-all apart from argue with a troll…..arse! – so that means you’ve prob won….Damn!!!)
How do you know I haven't read it? I would suggest reading it if you have it. No idea what your aunt has to do with it, I don't particularly think reading the koran is one of my lifes achievements personally so it would be a pretty boring game of top trumps..
So cougar I’m a patronising oik, masochist and a sociopath… Pretty sure you called me a dick as well at some point.
No that was myself, not Cougar.
Sorry Cougar, I apologise for disrespecting the forum rules.
The Mitty is strong in this thread today.
Protectionism can be good, ask port talbot steel workers if they look forward to competing with Trump or Chinese steel imports without tarifs.
So kimbers – are you telling me that you support Trump in his steel tariffs?
Hi Tariffs are ideotic and not thought through, his jobs saved in the steel industry is offset by the massive problems in any industry using steel. The EU hit back with much better targeted tariffs which has then hurt the US more. Tariffs can be used as a way towards a better global situation on trade or as a toy throwing exercise. There is a difference
So cougar I’m a patronising oik,
Perhaps "condescending" might've been more appropriate, in hindsight.
masochist and a sociopath…
I didn't say that, you've just chosen that option out of the four you had available. I was rather suggesting that I didn't believe you.
Pretty sure you called me a dick as well at some point.
I'm categorically certain that I haven't. In fact, I told someone else off for doing so a few pages back.
Hi Tariffs are ideotic and not thought through, his jobs saved in the steel industry is offset by the massive problems in any industry using steel. The EU hit back with much better targeted tariffs which has then hurt the US more.
The EU put around 73% tariffs on chinese steel at one point, is that idiotic too? Explain the difference please.
How do you know I haven’t read it? I would suggest reading it if you have it.
<insert image of Jimmy Hill>
I’m categorically certain that I haven’t. In fact, I told someone else off for doing so a few pages back.
I take it back it was somafunk.
The EU put around 73% tariffs on chinese steel at one point, is that idiotic too?
Do you rely on imported steel more than steel you are making?
Do you rely on imported steel more than steel you are making?
I don't follow you, you said Trumps tariffs were idiotic and I asked you if you thought the EU slapping 73% tariffs on steel imports from china was idiotic too?
If it counters the dumping of below cost steel then yes.