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I thought as long as you could prove you were here for last 5 years
do you know or does anyone know what is required as proof? I mean you can have a bank account pay bills etc but not be a resident. Or you can live here and have almost nothing in your name. I remember when I went from being a student to a property person and had no utilities, leases or anything to prove where I had been for a long time.
i do not believe all the immigration records are up to anything. I can already see the tabloids uncovering a house which has 1000 people living in it on fake paper trails
I thought as long as you could prove you were here for last 5 years you had to apply (with a £65 charge) and can apply up to around 202n something. Of course why you would need to prove anything when the government has all the data already for most people (PAYE, NI etc,.) is strange
But its not in law yet (remember according to the UK nothings agreed until everything is agreed). Day 1 of no deal puts things in motion, every EU citizen would be come illegal meaning employers have to sack them, bank accounts have to be frozen etc and you'd have to leave (or face deportation) and fight the fight from outside the UK.
This could all be avoided if the UK would legislate to give some breathing space if theres a no deal however Tories giving foreigners a break is a insane notion.
I am sure there will be exemptions for rich ones.
Just another one of the countless multitudes of things that haven’t been addressed that will have a potentially life-changing impact on the lives of so many people.
The lazy, self-absorbed, self-serving posturing of our politicians (on all sides) and total refusal to take these things seriously, is absolutely criminal!
I really can’t see anything other than massive civil unrest next year, because it won’t matter which way you voted in the referendum, you’ll still be totally ****ed when the economy ceases to function.
Strangely, it may end up unifying the country to a certain degree as the mountains of lies spouted by the Brexiteer shysters are exposed for what they are. I don’t think many will be in the mood for Boris’s bumbling or Rees Moggs 18th century shtick when the shit really hits the fan
bank accounts have to be frozen
The uk has some very flexible banking rules so I would not expect this... the required visa and/or paperwork required very quickly is a concern.
imagine we crash out in March next year. So seven months (six if you don’t count the holiday Parliament are on and even less with a Christmas break), and in this time a verification and visa system needs to be decided and voted on, potentially a points system established with provisions for people already in the country, IT systems deployed, training established and there still needs to be time for people to apply....
by being idiots the government will force themselves into a corner where the only option is to do massive blanket acceptances with no checks. I mean you would hope that they have at least beefed up immigration tracking in the last two years...
Unifying maybe but the arguement will still be either "Its the foreigners (EU) fault" or "it's the rich right wingers fault".
Not sure the UK has enough group intelligence to admit to itself which one it is.
The uk has some very flexible banking rules so I would not expect this…
the HO already asks Banks to do this
I stand corrected as the Uk used to be a place where you did not have to be a resident to hold s bank account. Or at least most banks had some kind of banking device to cover this scenario.
The checks will be worthless though. Much like the landlords requirement to verify legal status for tenants.
When I was in Oz they could check my status online with immigration, in the US you have visas and entry permits. My understanding is that the home office does not have a centralised database and track movement across all borders (especially NI) so they rely on individuals looking at ID (and being able to spot a fake) and following up periodically to see if status has changed...
what a shit show...
I thought as long as you could prove you were here for last 5 years
Can you account for all your movements over the last 5 years? I sure as hell can't!!
And what about, say, someone who interrupts that 5 years to study or work in another EU country? Stuffed.
Given the home offices track record on immigration recently = windrush scandal anyone? I am certain this will cause major issues for individuals.
Can you account for all your movements over the last 5 years? I sure as hell can’t!!
On the the plus side do you think the Home Office that the systems and resources to check? Everything we be on trust... Anyone who entered via the Dublin method is pretty untraceable
Yup, the home office and ukvi can't cope with current demands (by design- the departments were steadily degraded under the last 2 home secretaries as part of the hostile enviroment, to make it harder to gain legal access. Frinstance to the best of my knowledge not a single ATAS clearance has been issued within their timescales for the last 2 years- certainly none of ours ever come in less than 100% late)
"I really can’t see anything other than massive civil unrest next year,"
You mean "wanton criminality", right?
Indeed.
it’ll be interesting when it all goes off though, given how the Police have been treated by the Tory’s over recent years, including being lectured by headmistress May.
I doubt they’ll have much enthusiasm for defending these morons
I doubt they’ll have much enthusiasm for defending these morons
Trouble is these morons don't lose anything in a riot where shops are looted and cars are set on fire. They still have their money and pensions...
I would like to see protests outside of their houses but I don't see it happening. I would not like to see there houses set on fire or their families (children) harassed or anything like that but a constant reminder of their sins...
it’ll be interesting when it all goes off though, given how the Police have been treated by the Tory’s over recent years, including being lectured by headmistress May.
A point I have also made a couple of times. The police used to be Tory through and through and would always go the extra mile for leaders like Thatcher who, whatever you think of her, would back them to the hilt. Obviously this spilled over badly as the police took her protection for granted and excesses ensued.
May screwed them over as Home Secretary and PM and now they absolutely despise her. I’d expect plenty of comments from officers along the lines of “there’s only so much we can do when we’ve been cut by ‘x’ percent over the last five years”.
Serves the Tories right. The party of law and order has become the party of private enterprise ducking its responsibility and imposing austerity as they can’t risk upsetting their rich mates. Private enterprise will probably also end up being touted as part of the solution, until everyone remembers what happens every time the likes of G4S gets involved. Chaos, followed by a bailout from the army or whoever and no financial penalties.
It would be immensely satisfying to watch if I didn’t have to live here.
Can you account for all your movements over the last 5 years?
Yep, I can prove I have worked where I work and received a monthly income for it, paid taxes etc,.
So can my wife who works for NHS but is Belgian.
Again, the government are fully aware of this as they can see she has worked for NHS, received monthly pay, paid taxes, NI etc,.
Yep, I can prove I have worked where I work and received a monthly income for it, paid taxes etc,.
Cool, but that's not what's asked on the current application forms. They want to know all your travels, not just the bare bones of your employment history.
And what if your wife had done some sabbatical work back in Belgium, or if your child had attended a year abroad at a Belgian university, or any number of other activities that we all did without a thought when we took freedom of movement for granted.
klerley - has your wife been out of the uk in the last 5 years? If so she will not be eligible for the proposed scheme as she does not have 5 years continuous residence - and yes a weeks holiday counts
Paying taxes etc is not enough. Hostile environment remember? People have been deported because they could not show 5 years continuous residence having been out of the UK on holiday or for other reasons - IIRC one went to jamaca to look aftr a sick parent for a few weeks and thus lost her right to remain
also they will still be treated as less than UK citizens with less rights.
And you’ve the likes of Boris Johnson helping foster a tolerant and inclusive attitude to immigrants.
I truly despair as to where we’re headed as a country since this ****ing catastrophe. We seem to be regressing by the day, undoing decades of hard-won progress
The idiots are winning. For now. I think it’s going to look like a very hollow victory, come March. Well... it’ll be looking pretty grim for most of us. The people who instigated this shitshow will somehow, as always, come out smelling of roses, a la banking crisis
anyone heard from Dave lately?
klerley – has your wife been out of the uk in the last 5 years? If so she will not be eligible for the proposed scheme as she does not have 5 years continuous residence – and yes a weeks holiday counts
Rubbish, of course you can go on holiday while still having continuous PAYE. Where does it state that if you have gone on holiday then you cannot apply/the application will be rejected ?
Home office rules. 5 years continuous residency means 5 years in the country without leaving it at all for any reason. Paying tax here for 5 years does not equal 5 years continuous residency. Of course this could be changed - its a rule that has been used to get rid of brown people. read up on the windrush scandal to see how the home office apply the rules
Actually a weeks holiday is probably OK ( but the legislation has not been done yet) - 90 days in 5 years I think is the limit for current non eu citizens but people have found themselves unable to prove residency and deported - one case a nurse who had worked in the NHS for 40 years was deported.
kerley, it doesn't have to be stated anywhere, it's at the whim of an official who has the power to make their own decision. I know someone who actually has permanent residency but who has no legal entitlement to keep it if an official decides to take it away due to their temporary absence from the country. So far they have slipped under the radar, but that family could easily be split up due to brexit as there may then be literally no country where they all have automatic entitlement to reside. Of course, it may get sorted out, but I wouldn't want to have to bet my family life on it.
Paying tax here for 5 years does not equal 5 years continuous residency. Of course this could be changed – its a rule that has been used to get rid of brown people. read up on the windrush scandal to see how the home office apply the rules
Paying tax through PAYE and having continuous employment clearly shows you have bene here for 5 years. I am well aware of the wind rush scandal thanks but sounds like you are being over sceptical on this one (understandably) but overly sceptical nonetheless.
A single day out of the country has suddenly become 90 and you don't think having evidence of working and PAYE for 5 years would be enough. It obviously won't be as easy for the cash in hand or immigrants working in the shadow economy but then probably shouldn't be as easy in those scenarios.
PAYE for 5 years is not enough with the current arrangements. Its deliberately made difficult and complex
of course being married to a UK national she will be OK
Rubbish, of course you can go on holiday while still having continuous PAYE. Where does it state that if you have gone on holiday then you cannot apply/the application will be rejected ?
Yep... this is how it is done elsewhere. My visas to OZ and USA could both reclaim time out of the country even though I was still paying taxes. This time did not count towards residence timings. For tax you do not need to be resident for the whole year or in fact any of it.
there will be a description as you must have 5 years continuous residence. This may require 5 years in the country so with holidays etc you may have been in the country for 6 years.
last visa I applied for I needed to provide all flight/ferry numbers for 10years which was a challenge....
I would add the last visa was for Israel so by no means a normal process
This will be a new process most likely designed to make it hard for people who spend 6 months out of the country from getting residency.
this will in turn make it pointlessly difficult for normal people
UK national can't bring in spouse without achieving some income standard surely? Which may lead to a dislocation of several months even for well qualified people currently living abroad.
of course being married to a UK national she will be OK
What makes you think that?
It’s a no win situation.
Option 1: well defined requirements stringently applied - separation of some families/communities- tabloids blast heartless government
Option 2: poorly defined system (or amnesty) with rush a block approvals due to limited resources - people cheat system, criminals etc get in - tabloids blast incompetent government letting in paedos, terrorists blah blah.
or if they really go for it they may be able to do both
there are of course many options but in my mind none of them are swift, efficient and in time for march next year in my mind
Do this lot look like they’re capable of putting anything in place by March that won’t result in total chaos?
On this and so so many other issues
This is fun (yes I know it is yet another poll) but Gove, Moggster and BoJo's constituencies appear now to support remain... No doubt they will be representing the 'will of the people' shortly 🙂
https://news.sky.com/story/100-seats-switch-to-support-uk-staying-in-eu-poll-11471078
To repeat … proof of drawing a wage is not enough to satisfy the rules as currently applied by the Home Office.
of course being married to a UK national she will be OK
What sector is the spouse employed in? How high is their lowest annual earnings if the HO look at the last three tax years?
Johnsons majority went from 10k to 5k at the last election
Since then hes been a terrible foreign sec, flounced from cabinet- as the brexshit hit the fan, blown the islamophobia dogwhistle (in a constituency with double the national average of muslims) & broken his famous promise to lie down infront of the bulldozers over heathrow
also George Osbornes former 'party planner' has just said this on twitter....
https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe/status/1028717908145385472
Kimbers - was there a follow up tweet??
I imagine various media outlets are haggling with her over the story, rather than letting her put it out for free on Twitter.
On another note, our Border Force is coping so well with folk arriving from non EEA destinations, so I imagine they won't mind if they have to apply the same checks to a few more arrivals post-Brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45165222
Yes check her feed it's just something about fathering a child...anyone surprised hasn't been paying attention.
Right on cue the Torygraph have a lead about Corbyn and a wreath at the graves of the Palestinians involved at Munich in 1972. Whatever the truth of this, if anyone out there is still surprised by the timing, then you are criminally naive.
Most of this anti-semitism row is a put-up job. Deliberately conflating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. Israel has played a blinder by also managing to get the wording of an international definition of anti-semitism to effectively make any criticism of the Israeli state anti-Semitic.
Our right wing press just need to stoke it a bit every time they need to. You could argue that this comment should be on the Labour Party Problems thread, but it is also at home here. Brexit, Trump, Johnson, this anti-semitism ‘row’ are all part of the same thing - an attempted far right wing takeover.
Good that everyone is continuing to make stuff up about residency. From gov.uk
<h2 id="continuous-residence">‘Continuous residence’</h2>
Continuous residence means you’ve been in the UK for at least 6 months in each of those 5 years, except for:
- one period of up to 12 months for an important reason (for example, to work or study)
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/status-of-eu-nationals-in-the-uk-what-you-need-to-know
[ psst - nothing on those pages has been signed off, by anyone … it's all hopes and wishes ]
We have been referring to how non EEA nationals are currently treated … and the more favourable rules proposed, for a brief period, in the event of an exit deal, and a transition period, may not yet come to pass.
^^ that linked page does not contain that quoted text
managing to get the wording of an international definition of anti-semitism to effectively make any criticism of the Israeli state anti-Semitic.
Not true. You can't claim the Israeli government is the same as the Nazi government, as there are, you may be surprised to hear, particular sensitivities about that. You also can't claim that the existence of Israel is a racist endeavour (although you can claim the current government has racist policies).
Not true.
Covered at length in the other thread, but even those who back the the clauses above still manage to claim anti Semitic when it doesn't fall within the definitions above.
It is strange that our proud right wing patriots are yet again failing to defend our citizens and country from false and damaging accusations by foreign powers, one might conclude that they aren't actually that patriotic after all, in fact one might wonder what they actually mean by "patriotism" when they fail a most basic test of being patriotic by actions rather than just meaningless words.
Right wing press only having to attack Corbyn because they know that come September May has to hope that France/Germany have taken pity on us enough to to allow a fudged deal or its election time, again.
This is taken from a twitter thread:
I understand that senior members of Britain's road haulage industry came out of a recent meeting with Grayling where they were astonished by his lack of grasp of the key detail on Brexit.One of them, Kevin Hopper, who runs a major firm up in Yorkshire, said that he tried to explain to Grayling that if there is no Brexit deal then UK haulage drivers won't be able to drive in EU as their papers will be invalid.
Kevin, who has 40 years industry experience, then showed to Grayling a copy of the EU's notice to stakeholders from the Commission's website, which confirms exactly that: no deal, no recognition of UK drivers.
Kevin says Grayling appeared to have never heard of this document but he insisted that "everything would be fine"
Grayling then said we "hope" there will be deal.
Kevin: "But what if there ISN'T a deal? Can you tell me, minister, what plans are there to remedy this situation?"
Grayling: "Well, could you suggest anything?"
Kevin: I can't believe this
Grayling: What do you expect from me?
Kevin: I expect clarity
Grayling: What do you mean?
Kevin: I mean I want clarity
Grayling: I can't give you that
This was infuriating for Kevin and colleagues because they have **already** been forced to turn down contracts with EU countries as they don't know if they will be able to do those jobs.
Hard to know where the spin ends, both sides saying No Deal is 50/50 chance now
whos bluffing who?
to the people like the hauliers caught in the middle its not funny.
The brexiteers lack of a plan for brexit is criminal
If only it was criminal and we could lock them up for it.
With a number of brexiters moving money out of the uk and into the EU, a few moving business and in one instance to monaco, others having property in France, one getting German passports for his offspring and one in particular being in the pockets of US companies waiting to swallow up assets in a fire sale, I think a few Brexiters like Grayling are the stupid ones who genuinely believe in a pure brexit.
The others mentioned beforehand are using it to crash the economy and make a serious amount of money from it.
This is the biggest heist the world has ever seen.
As for the pure brexiters, I find it amazing how they think they are going to survive the aftermath of all this, they must truly believe "it will be fine."
As above its the biggest "long con" ever..
We've started planning for the "no functioning government" scenario .....Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving 😀
Chair of Vote Leave, Gisela Stuart yesterday on Twitter
only around 2900 students took A-level in German this year. Shocking decline of foreign language skills.
What did she really expect? It was pointed out to her that taking away our freedom to live there may disencentivise students from taking the language.
Tory MP Nigel Evans said: "We don't need any lectures from Remainers."
The backbencher, who campaigned for Brexit, told the BBC: "He's got his own views. He voted remain. The prime minister needs to ensure, as she promised, that Brexiteers are in charge of our leaving the European Union."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45216061
and same story different names repeated over and over again. Can't criticise brexit even if it looks like a really bad idea.
Grayling really does have to be the pick of the bunch when it comes to dithering incompetence. You see him get interviewed and there is no sign of any cognitive ability whatsoever.
We are finally getting to the heart of their plan for Brexit - hopes and bloody prayers.
Following on from Cougars .eu thread - I've just remembered my car has EU stars on the numberplate. Wonder if we'll have to change that too... 🙂
****ing Internet.
Half the globe was pink without sending a ****ing email.
Turn it off let the lion roar.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/17/home_office_seeks_brexit_tech_boss_doesnt_splash_the_cash/
The closing date is 2 September and the final panel interviews are 8 October – which should give them plenty of time to handle the first task listed in the job description:
“Design and delivery of the programme of DDaT work needed to support the settlement scheme in time for launch in the Autumn of 2018."
Happy days - Nigel is back to save us from the 'anti-democrats'...
Hopefully everyone who attends his tour can ask 'what's the plan Nige?'
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-back-in-politics-to-challenge-theresa-mays-brexit-11475417
Just watched Brexitannia on Amazon prime. So many failures of logic.
I'm 10 minutes into Brexitannia on Amazon Prime and every single one of those thick ****ers deserves to have a full lobotomy, preferably done by grabbing the back of their heads and impaling their gawking faces on iron railings set up outside every town hall in the UK. I'll quite happily listen and converse/disagree with a cohesive and reasoned argument for Brexit but they are very few and far between, as for the folk who express such utter shite as in Brexitannia? - It's very easy to say to them "you are a ****ing idiot" over and over till it rings through their head 24/7 like a tinnitus jack hammer to their conscience.
Like i said.......****ing idiots.
Nope.....nope.....nope, 21 mins in and hearing a young UKIP supporter state she “doesn’t trust the mediya” 🤔, cant watch any more as it’s just reinforcing my belief that brexiters are ****ing idiots.
Ooohhh someones lost their "faith" in brexit...
Well started to watch brexitannia
And Aggghhh the old cucumber thing swings it for one of them 🙁
I’m 10 minutes into Brexitannia on Amazon Prime and every single one of those thick **** deserves to have a full lobotomy, preferably done by grabbing the back of their heads and impaling their gawking faces on iron railings set up outside every town hall in the UK.
Thread winner.
The future.
Ruritanian antiquity governed by the ghost of Mussolini.
Good luck everybody.
50/50 whether we crash out without a ‘deal’. What the Danish guy didn’t say was what the other 50% is.
Let’s face it, the other 50% isn’t going to be a deal. The rabble we currently have running this fiasco cannot do a deal. They’re still negotiating with themselves, nearly 18 months into a 24 month timescale. I genuinely believe these maniacs would rather take us over the edge than do the correct thing and withdraw A50 or extend it if they can.
There will be Superdry bonfires in the streets...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45235655
Another 'enemy of the people'. Springing up everywhere.
Very surprised no ones posted this yet. I had to laugh whilst watching Brexitannia at the bendy cucumbers bit.
Another ‘enemy of the people’. Springing up everywhere.
One of the SEL's was on the news spluttering his tea over how dare they have opinions, how very dare they continue to be politically active.
Utter utter panic in the brexit camp at the moment.
There will be Superdry bonfires in the streets…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45235655
/a>Another ‘enemy of the people’. Springing up everywhere.
Their clothings have weird sizing but worst of all with poor unpractical small pockets, I mean how hard can that be to design clothing with larger pocket?
Regardless of their political affiliation they are not going to drum up sales.
I'll buy Superdry now, even if I can't get me gropers in the pockets.
I’ll buy Superdry now, even if I can’t get me gropers in the pockets.
Superdry must be targeting the "niche" 48.1% market. 😀
They’d better start targeting any markets they can as in a couple of year’s time no ****er will have any cash to spend on anything due to this shit.
As if the geriatric Brexiters of little Britain wear superdry !
Ironic when the brexies themselves are happy with Putin's money channeled via Aron banks to fund brexit.
It's painfully obvious that brexit is dying of its own contradictions & the brexiteers themselves have shown that they have no plan whatsoever to make it work.
Superdry must be targeting the “niche” 48.1% market.
if it's everyone but leave voters then it's 63% of the UK
They’d better start targeting any markets they can as in a couple of year’s time no **** will have any cash to spend on anything due to this shit.
Not trying to discuss their politics but I was at Superdry store a while back trying to buy shirts with larger pockets and the store was rather empty. Expensive, poor design and very thin materials. I ended up buying better quality shirt from John Lewis with proper pockets and cheaper price.
Superdry is a bit like Fatface who cannot design clothing with larger pockets, the latter at least have size for normal people. Frankly, I don't see Superdry surviving for long in their current retail chain concept but as independent store perhaps.
if it’s everyone but leave voters then it’s 63% of the UK
Good for them if they can do that as high street stores are practically empty. Retail stores are being killed off by business rate that are going to the bureaucrats.
P/s: it does not matter which political party is in power, if they insist on having business rate the high street will be empty of independent stores. Go walk around your city and see empty shops ...