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oh dear it looks like the EU have just found a 12BN a year black hole in their budget
Whereas we have a £61.8bn hole in ours.
(source: https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_deficit_analysis)
When you know you 100% have the full support and the will of the people on your side...
Meanwhile, pro-Brexit demonstrators also turned up at the launch, and Conservative MP Nadine Dorries argued there was no public appetite for a second referendum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43774200
You know fan of democracy and referendums one minute, shit scared of them the next.
A powerful cross-party group of MPs is to force a vote on a customs union next week in the House of Commons.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43821737
Please please let the great unwashed and the swivel eyed have their Brexit , the great unwashed need to suffer the low regulation economy that the swivel eyed folk desire. Just sit back and let them get on.
We in the middle shall prosper or maintain our wealth and security.
Just give me one generation of youth and I will transform the world - Vladimir Lenin. This shit fest will correct itself as karma is a mighty powerful thing.
We in the middle shall prosper or maintain our wealth and security.
Gald your comfortable, many are not and the set back to the nation will screw another generation.
I agree mikewsmith lots of innocent folks will suffer, however " useful innocents" have a big part to to play in sorting this
I don't agree with that line of thought, causing unesesary damage to prove a point isn't constructive.
I think the remainers should graciously, logicaly and tentatively turn this whole sorry mess around, without being callous and selfish (to do otherwise would make us just as bad as the willfully ignorant brexiters) , and that seems to be what's beginning to happen now.
I agree mikewsmith lots of innocent folks will suffer, however
Would you agree if you were going to seriously lose out?
This Brexit thing has changed my view, I am a socialist and always will be, however I have had my faith in the common sense of the working class (poor) has been challenged. The sheer lack of understanding and the willingness of people to believe the utter shite fed to them by the swivel eyed has changed me.
As I have said before I am from the North East started work at 16 in 1979 and witnessed first hand what the swivel eyed did to my family's communities from South Shields to Ashington and beyond. So when these "working poor" vote to support the horrible bastards that want to turn them into unregulated cheap labour with no rights I ****ing despair.
These are not the people who stood up for their rights in the mines, shipyards and mills in the 70s and 80s they are something new and they are as thick as pig shit, sorry if this is unpleasant buts it's true unlike the crap that is peddled in the Daily Mail.
Rant over
The daily express has just run the same story, and the comments are a frothing mess of..... Interestingly sexism today, I guess they got bored of xenophobia and racism.
Ive said t before and I shall say it again why did they ever let women into politics to date they have screwed everything up and are constantly arguing and when it come to carrying grudges well there is nothing down for anyone, they are as useless as the House of Lords
I am not prepared to graft on behalf of these people to sort out the crap they have voted for, I admire anyone who is prepared to do so.
Can't say I have done anything exceptional to improve the well being of many but I have created a few well paid jobs., including giving a pizza delivery bloke, a scaffolder, two graduates, an unemployed person and a bar person (also an immigrant) the opportunity to work in a tech business and at least double their incomes + improve their quality of life exponentially.
Long story short I am not some closet raging capatilist swivel eyed individual.
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So when these “working poor” vote to support the horrible bastards that want to turn them into unregulated cheap labour with no rights I **** despair."
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'twas ever thus, the only way right wing parties can ever get into power is by convincing the people they plan to screw over to vote for them. Brexit's by no means a development here.
Don't blame to people who believed the lies they were told, blame the people telling the lies.
I’ve been thinking about this and I reckon history will label this whole Brexit as the ‘Big Lie’.
Very interesting to hear Lord Patten thou he really does seem annoyed at his own party and I’m really not a great Tory lover he does seem to be exhibiting the uncommon sense you need as opposed to themuppets who have jumped on the bandwagon for their own glory and power.
The closest pro-Brexit ministers have come to a trade deal is the checkout at Waitrose
When push comes to shove the so called free trading Brexiters turn out to be jingoistic protectionists...The global Britain touted by some - as though we had not been global for centuries - is not only hypocritical, it is also political and economic nonsense. One problem is that the Ministers who talk about these fictitious trade deals have never negotiated one.
Good party trick thou selling the public that the agenda of a few millionaires is the same as theirs.
Even if they get fantastic trade deals why would you pass that on isn’t it good business to buy cheap sell dear.
Dont get the fascination with it tbh.
Don’t blame to people who believed the lies they were told, blame the people telling the lies.
Blame them both though one set knew what they were doing so are worse
As for the rest capitalism is no different convince those who don benefit from the system to keep supporting - see asp lower taxes which make about £1.20 per week difference to the average person and hundreds and thousands to the taxes
See also the switch from direct taxes to indirect - Vat up to 20% from 5 % whilst taxes drop - the tax burden has not changed it just the poor pay more of it than the rich and they support these " tax cuts"
Agreed, every one has a certain amount of social responsibility, we should be careful not to judge the stupid ones too harshly, they can't help being stupid. And why alienate when we can educate.
Don’t blame to people who believed the lies they were told, blame the people telling the lies.
Nope, blame the idiots completely. The information proving the lie was punching them in the face so the fact they ignored it is their fault and they can own it.
The people telling the lies were doing their wretched job well.
My predictions...
We'll have a pretend brexit whereby every thing stays the same but the UK has no say, or a much reduced say.
Don’t blame to people who believed the lies they were told, blame the people telling the lies.
Nope, blame the idiots completely. The information proving the lie was punching them in the face so the fact they ignored it is their fault and they can own it.
The people telling the lies were doing their wretched job well.
My first foray into this thread - hooray!
I strongly agree.
IMO, there were lots of reasons that people voted Brexit - but anyone who claims they believed the transparent, barely coherent lies they were being told, is either not being honest, or is so earth-shatteringly stupid that they would have struggled to work the pencil in the voting booth.
Is anyone selling shares in the use of the term "swivel eyed"? 'Cause I'm in!
I ****ing love verbally abusing anyone I have a difference of opinion with. Can't get enough.
Don’t blame to people who believed the lies they were told, blame the people telling the lies.
I'll blame both, thanks. Everyone who voted was over the age of majority - they're responsible for their decisions, including their inability to apply critical thought. By no means was everyone who voted leave an idiot, but I'd be willing to bet a rather large sum that most idiots who voted, voted to leave.
I **** love verbally abusing anyone I have a difference of opinion with. Can’t get enough.
There are opinions, and there are facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but there is usually only one set of facts. Maintaining an opinion in the face of opposing facts heads towards the "swivel-eyed" category.
I don’t agree with that line of thought, causing unesesary damage to prove a point isn’t constructive.
I think the remainers should graciously, logicaly and tentatively turn this whole sorry mess around, without being callous and selfish (to do otherwise would make us just as bad as the willfully ignorant brexiters) , and that seems to be what’s beginning to happen now.
I am a hard wired remainer, and I have always said inflicting punishment on the lying swivel eyed loons is acceptable. I do not see why “we” have to turn anything around, it’s for the morons who voted Brexit to openly admit that they are narrow minded racists with inferiority complexes.. once I see BloHard/Gove in the stocks I will quite happily supply the eggs and rotten fruit.
Meanwhile we have gone through social division and utter uncertainty for a couple of people’s own political dogma, that’s Contards for you.
Don’t blame to people who believed the lies they were told, blame the people telling the lies.
I agree. Right up to the point where it becomes clear that they were lies and that they aren't going to get all the benefits they were promised. But to then continue just because people are incapable of saying they were wrong or mislead, and deliver a brexit that is good only for a bunch of rich Empire loons..... at that point I lose sympathy and were it not for the impact it'll have on my kids and grandkids I'd happily let the shit bury them all.
I’ve tried to stay away from this thread but I need to know stuff.
Has the recent Lords votes changed anything. Or does it just mean that The Zombie Maygot has to ask for permission to do what she was going to do anyway and she will be given it?
As regards punishing people , it would be good for those that were promised ,not to receive and turn on people like Gove so that these idiots are never trusted again.
from the torygraph
The EU has comprehensively rejected British proposals for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland in a move which will cast serious doubt on the UK’s ability to leave the customs union, The Telegraph has learned.
Senior EU diplomatic sources said that Mrs May’s plan for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland was subjected to a “systematic and forensic annihilation” this week at a meeting between senior EU officials and Olly Robbins, the UK’s lead Brexit negotiator.
“It was a detailed and forensic rebuttal,” added the source who was directly briefed on the meeting in Brussels on Wednesday. “It was made clear none the UK's customs options will work. None of them"
rest is behind the account wall
It is still possible that May is letting the radical Brexiteers paint themselves into a corner, to force a softer Brexit, isn't it?
I don't think she's letting them. She's just totally ineffective and they're doing it all by themselves.
If she is it's not by design, given her track record I'd say she is 100% behind getting the UK a good deal 😉
Dunno
Theresa May is to Westminster what Cersei Lannister is to Westeros in Game of Thrones: no one who challenges her survives undamaged, while the welfare of the realm is of secondary concern.
https://order-order.com/2016/07/02/read-full-article-pulled-telegraph-pressure-may-campaign/
I think she’s just keeping the plates spinning.
Must admit just heard a Windrush bloke saying how he’d been denied cancer treatment unless he paid 50 something grand....
And people voted to give her and her Ilk power to do this sort of shit.
Even with all the bad press the windrush scandal has generated, May for all her incompetence (now or her abysmal record as home sec) is the best of the bad bunch.
More to the point, Brexit had a fairly substantial xenophobic core, treating 'foreigners' like shit , is exactly what a big chunk of the right wing voters want to see.
How no one has lost their job over the Windrush scandal is beyond me .
Some people have lost everything with no fault of their own and no one gives a sh_t .
Windrush has been covered all week on the James O’Brien show on LBC and the personal tales of how the callers have been treated by this government is utterly ****ing atrocious/heartbreaking, there’s lots of clips/somethingions below.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/
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dudeofdoom
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https://order-order.com/2016/07/02/read-full-article-pulled-telegraph-pressure-may-campaign/
I thought it was only dear Jamby who read that 😉
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I’m not really into guidobut I did like the G.O.T reference
I keep some real numptys on my Facebook just to see what they’re being fed.
Gotta step out your bubble in the internet age or it ends in tears.
May it is more of a Walder Frey imo, Cersei is far more of a badass.
May it is more of a Walder Frey imo, Cersei is far more of a badass.
This, definitely.
The rabbit hole keeps on getting deeper.
Interesting times.
The Brexies freely admit (indeed crowed) that during the referendum they knew if they could keep the discussion on immigration and off the economy they’d win. Vice versa then remain would have won they said.
But the Windrush saga / scandal changes the whole feel of immigration - is this really a country that abandons those who come here to help “make it great”? Note the queue of Brexies (start with Gove but others are available) now saying that immigration is good.
And the discussion is heading on to trade - or the economy.
Now, the standard right wing press is claiming that the government got its sums wrong on the cost of Brexit - but events are pretty much in line with my death by a thousand cuts expectations. Maybe I’m just better at reading forecasts than some.
Hold on tight boys and girls, ‘cause this ain’t over yet. Not by a long chalk.
But remember, you are reading something written by someone who still rides 26” wheels (having sold his 29ers). 😜
And people voted to give her and her Ilk power to do this sort of shit.
Check out how many Labour MPs voted for the bill that enabled this hostile environment for people without UK birth certificates… this awful mess, just like the Brexit mess… is enabled by both sides of the house… they both want the votes of a certain kind of voter… and, while we'd like to imagine otherwise… there are MILLIONS of them… those with "genuine concerns" about people they don't want to share "their country" with.
It was only on one news bulletin yesterday but I'm sure labour have said that the only way to sort out the Irish border is with a customs union.
Hopefully a step in the right direction.
Kier said it. Doesn't mean anything 'till Jeremy says it.
With the recent sackings surely it would be brave to speak without Jezza's approval
The demonisation of immigrants by the right wing press has been ongoing for decades.
Both big parties, too scared to challenge that narrative.
Brexiters just cleverly used that to scapegoat the EU for failings within our own governments.
Even with the Windrush scandal exposing how cruel this all is I can't see anyone's position changing.
Gives the EU a timely warning that post Brexit, EU citizens will be subject to the whims of a xenophobic press & cowardly politicians
But if Britain leaves the EU without agreeing a deal that includes associate membership of EASA, Rolls-Royce's products will not be able to be signed off in the UK and will, therefore, be unable to take to the air.
But "we" voted, and gave a clear instruction to Leave the EASA, didn't we?
Maybe I’m being thick, but why is it so important that we have to leave the customs union. Is it because a few Brexiteer MP’s and their backers have deals drawn up with various companies that can only happen if we’re not in the customs union? (or that some Russian ‘businessmen’ have threatened to have ‘em whacked/release the sextapes if they don’t go through with the deal😆)
You're not being thick. Certain people want a different (doesn't have to better) carve up of international dealings, to grasp the "opportunities" made available, knowing the (greater) losses will be felt by others (not least smaller exporters/importers). I doubt most Leave voters are desperate to leave the Customs Union at all. Or wish a Customs border with Ireland.
But remember, "we" clearly voted to Leave the Customs Union. A queue of politicians are lining up to tell us that.
Oh, @teamhurtmore, don't post your empty cryptic nonsense in private messages… post it here in this thread for the amusement/bemusement of all please. Thanks.
Oh, the troll in chief is back, is he?
Check out how many Labour MPs voted for the bill that enabled this hostile environment for people without UK birth certificates…
Was this before or after labour stopped being a neoliberal party?
They stopped? I wasn't informed about this. 😉
They stopped? I wasn’t informed about this. 😉
Yes. Do try to pay attention.
so, apparently the EU think we have an incompetent trade minister
...and given the mess the forum has made of me trying to post a link on my iPhone, perhaps he works in web dev for stw?
Do you think that Enola May will bravely reject tonight's non binding vote to secure the result of a non binding referendum?
Did anyone hear Andrea Leadsom on the radio yesterday? Dear God, that woman is as thick as mince! When she was repeatedly told that the ridiculous Unicorns and fairy dust proposals for the Irish border were simply unacceptable to the EU, and the only way to avoid a hard border was to remain in the customs union, she replied... and I'm paraphrasing here... "It'll all be fine. It will work because we say it will. The EU are just ..... and this is a direct quote... trying to frustrate the will of the people"
Then she just repeated that phrase in answer to every question, like some demented, malfunctioning right-wing robot
It'd be easier to take the Brexiteers proposals a bit more seriously if they weren't obviously all such completely delusional ****-wits, who stick their fingers in their ears and sing Rule Brittania when they hear anything that contradicts their unhinged nationalist fantasies
No link… because it's the Daily Mail… but they are now moaning about having to pay visa waver fees when we visit the EU, after we leave… when recently they were talking up proposals for EU visitors to the UK to pay a similar (but higher) fee.
That sums it all up for me…
That'll be the eu punishing us for leaving.
But don' t worry we can punish them back even morer.
That'll learn Johnny foreigner .
“so, apparently the EU think we have an incompetent trade minister”
Not much of a surprise given his previous job experience...as a GP! Well, I guess at least people like Gove and BoJo might have some relevant experience from previous jobs, er...oh yeah, they’re both journalists.....F’in great eh?! What bunch of amateurs.
Probably what Gove meant when he said we need less experts...
I suppose at least the deplorable little shit practices what he preaches.
I’m really depressed at the totally predictable route this is taking; Brexit extremists on the back benches pressuring May on the quiet, resulting in a slow slide to hard Brexit. Fu€king awful. A fine example of how to slyly trash a country for their own nefarious gain.
Even after Brexit the place is going to implode. Hopefully though, something decent will rise from the ashes. These things are cyclical after all. It'll be 20-30 years though.
Oh, the troll in chief is back, is he?
I'm not rejoining this thread until matt_outandabout is given "prototroll" status for starting the bloody thing in the first place!
These things are cyclical after all. It’ll be 20-30 years though.
That’s the country screwed for best part of my son’s youth and formative life then. Cameron, Johnson, May, Gove et al have got a lot to answer for.
I don't think a hard brexit is possible with the Irish situation and interestingly yesterday MPs approve motion on customs union.
While non binding, it sends a powerful message to the government that they will fail if they try to attempt to leave the customs union.
DUP have openly said they would take down the government if NI is treated any different from the UK, WTO would require a hard border and a breach of the GFA, which all parties have explicitly said would be upheld, there is no other option but a customs union with the EU.
Government paints itself further into the corner.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43925282
Proud of some of my fellow scientists
Yes, saw that - very enjoyable, especially that the director backed them up
Is the customs union argument just about won now?
Time to maintain momentum by getting on with preserving freedom of movement?
👍
Single market argument needs winning next.
However, I suspect the tories are so blinded by their ideology that the CU argument isn't won yet
Is the customs union argument just about won now?
I won't link to an express article out of common decency, but this is interesting...
BREXIT BOMBSHELL: David Davis 'ready to RESIGN' if Britain stays in EU customs union
Two birds with one stone if you ask me, the comments on the article are quite amazing. Lol
Good.
**** off and don't come back you ****.
I'm sure I've seen that tweet before.... Keep up Kimbers!
Can you not just park your cynicism, you enemies of the people, and rejoice in our 0.1% economic growth?
Why am I suddenly singing “professional cynic, but my heart’s not in it” to myself?
It's a pantomime at best.....
At worst it is constructive self destruction....
However I think they (Mays people) will fold like a wet paper bag at the 11th hour.
The economic news is catastrophic (and we have not left yet) 300 billion down on inflow capital, retail in meltdown, car manufacturers cutting lots of jobs, sterling up and down like a brides nightie, NHS - Local gov on its arse, productivity shite (we don't know why? Because you have over employment on minimum wage you retards!)
Bring it on Brexiteers I am ****ing loving it...
Don't worry poor people your going to get a free union Jack to wave.....
It's embarrassing.....
Still, blue passports, we're getting blue passports