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Zippy, the grownups will sort it, obviously!
(I'm actually going to hear Ian Dunt speak tonight..(the editor of that website, and author of that article) ..he's very articulate, so should be interesting!
Rather depresing remoaner experience this morning
(Government funded) 10,000 Genomes Project meeting, wanting to integrate with Europe wide drug trials, but as we have no clue what our end state will be regards collaboration, EMA interaction & crucially patient data sharing, stuck in limbo until.....?
Don't worry your pretty little head over 'details'. It'll all be fine.Anyway..... the leavers have succeeded in getting what they really wanted....
Rejoice!!!!! Less bloody foreigners!!!!
Was sat in a meeting last week where the future of one of our UK manufacturing and technology centers was discussed.
The summary was there can be no investment until the freedom of movement following Brexit is resolved and if it is not preserved then the center will no longer be viable....
It is slightly extreme but the situation is playing into the hands of companies who already want to move mfg. to China or elsewhere in Asia to cut costs...
meeting last week, we know a large percentage of our customer base are going to go bust. It is the reps job to identify those that are least likely to and work with them don't extend any favours to anyone who won't survive.
And on another note, May has decided to postpone any commons motions on the Customs bill because she is running scared of a defeat from both the remain and the leave sides.
There will come a point where May can no longer kick the can any further down the road and is just going to have to let the (pre-)warring factions of the tory party set about each other like rats in a sack.
If theres going to be a silver-lining to the incoming financial armageddon it'd be nice if it was the complete implosion of the Tory party. The rest of us will all just be collateral damage to that conflict, but then we already are
Colleague had morning meeting with chief grown up for trade negotiations. He (colleague) is ardent remoaner but was positively surprised by plans and timetable on trade deals but less so on what this means in terms of actual £s
Still good to know that behind the scenes we are still moving onwards.,..slowly
Thats reassuring. I'm sure everything will be fine after all
THM - you work in a school. How can a colleague have meetings with senior civil servants? Or do you mean they sat next to each other on the train?
That’s really great to hear that everything is going so well. The newspapers are full of stories that the Economic Ruin Group is threatening the govt and that May is cancelling a vote that she’s scared of losing. Fake news!
is ardent remoaner but was positively surprised by plans and timetable on trade deals but less so on what this means in terms of actual £s
Still good to know that behind the scenes we are still moving onwards.,..slowly
So going slowly towards a bad outcome while cheering we got a deal we got a deal? It's amazing what you can get excited about if you really try.
No mike, securing trade deals is a good thing.
Leku - changed job @9 months ago
captain - like leavers you shouldn’t believe everything you read in the papers
No mike, securing trade deals is a good thing.
No matter what it says?
Remember there are still 3 options on the table.
It's the pace of movement that's the peobpro.
Scientific research & clinical trials are planned years in advance, and it's all about power (as in sample size) that's why (international) collaboration is so important, until this morning didn't realise how much it has derailed future trials.
As we don't know what our final standings will be regards patient confidentiality (at the moment ECJ has final say and we follow EU regs that were pretty much entirely set up by UK research)
That the gov are only now apparently sitting down to decide what they want as the end point is mind boggling & just holding back so much work!
😀
more than three, there a b_s_o_e version too.
like leavers you shouldn’t believe everything you read in the papers
Yeah we should trust you instead. Remind me of your proven qualifications?
😀
my colleague was at the same [s]fictional[/s] meeting a thms[s] fictional [/s]colleague and their account of the meeting[s] that never happened[/s] is nothing like a positive as THMS [s]made up one[/s]
"No mike, securing trade deals is a good thing."
When they are shite though.....well, I'd hasten to ask for a second opinion!
Well the killfile is not working so I ended up reading more utter bobbins from THM. Still living in his fantasy world where the tories are going to sort it all out. Its a shame that the things he keeps on saying are happening are simply not. Simple lies from someone who likes to pretend he knows what is going on but who clearly has no clue at all.
There is no deal being done on financial services. UK side are still punting ideas all of which have been comprehensively rejected by the EU. Barnier and the rest of the negotiators have been very clear. Leave the single market and you do not get passporting and equivalence is only going to be offered in very limited circumstances for short term only. Any equivalence will not work for the financial services sector according to them
"
This is no good according to a leading lawyer on the subject, Barnabus Reynolds of the firm Shearman and Sterling who says "equivalence doesn't work because it is granted unilaterally by the EU and can be revoked at very short notice (30 days) by politicians".
Many big US banks with significant EU operations based in London - including Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan - have dismissed this idea as unstable"
so there we go - contrary to THMs blithe assertions financial services are in big trouble and the deadline is looming. No passporting, minimal to no equivalence and the 4 freedoms cannot be divided. Exactly the same as its always been.
"Preserving the integrity of the single market excludes sector-by-sector participation" so the "3 baskets" approach mooted has also been ruled out
Why the Tories are still asking for cake and eat it is beyond me. Its so obvious that this is not so and Wednesdays EU paper makes it clear that the UKs position is totally unacceptable whichever of the outcomes the tories actually aim for
"The document says: “UK views on regulatory issues in the future relationship including ‘three basket approach’ are not compatible with the principles in the [European council] guidelines.”
The paper, produced by the commission’s Brexit taskforce, led by the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, further emphasises the limits of what the UK can expect in a future trade deal.
"There will be customs controls at the borders, although waiting times may be mitigated. There will be no mutual recognition of rules in financial services, for example, to give businesses on both sides of the channel confidence they will be able to continue to operate."
A wee tip THM - try actually listening to what the players with power have to say not what your little echo chamber hopes for. #Try to understand the difference between what you want and hope for and what is possible - because your position is simply not possible, never has been and never will be.
More superciullous sneering. Its your only answer when you are proven to be so wrong. Everything you have claimed has been proven to be wrong
I could say a lot more but one thing is clear - you have no idea what you are talking about and we are all laughing at you. Thats AT you THM because you look so ridiculous.
Any chance that we might all make an effort to try to be a bit, erm nice and civilised?
Engage, question, debate...
I’m the first to own up to sometimes being reactionary on here, but I genuinely think that if we don’t at least try then we’re going to end up switching off from the forum.
I love the way THM mentions others then does a hatchet job as if it is not him settign the entire tone here.
There is no chance of actual debate whilst folk engage with him
TBH who knows who started it or how it happened but I am happy to engage as a grown up [ or ignore you entirely if that helps] if you wish to it
Its a genuine olive branch that I think would help if we all grabbed hold of . this is little more than you seeing how rude you can be within the rules [ and others back to be fair]
It pretty pointless just insulting one another - there is not even any attempt at humour its just simmering and open contempt
PJM = the -problem is one person and his subtle trolling and complete refusal to play nicely. Of course that gets a reaction.
THM its not me making stuff up. I read what the EU side are saying and doing - and quote them. You simply make aserttions wiuthout evidence
Lest see the real position asexplained by Barnier
Passporting is ruled out
Cherry picking is ruled out, 3 baskets approach - you guessed it ruled out. No deal on financial services that will give the UK anything approaching the poisition they have now is acceptable to the EU side. The 4 freedoms areindivisible
All I am doing is quoting those who know. somethi9ng yo seem unable to do.
Now if you would like to quote something to back your spurious assertions then please do so - but when challenged before you have been completely unable to do so. So lets see some nice quotes from people who actually have influence that back up your spurious assertions or else only one conclusion can be drawn. You haven't got a scooby
The EU has warned Britain to lower its expectations of market access for the City of London after Brexit, delivering a blow to the UK’s hopes of a trade deal that maintains current flows of capital, staff and services. Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, suggested that after Brexit the UK would have no preferential access for financial services other than patchy “equivalence” arrangements, such as those with the US or Singapore. “On financial services, UK voices suggest that Brexit does not mean Brexit,” he said. “Brexit means Brexit, everywhere.”
“The legal consequence of Brexit is that UK financial service providers lose their EU passport,” he said, referring to the ability of financial groups to sell products throughout the bloc from a base within the single market. Instead, he suggested, the UK would have to rely on the current equivalence rules, in which the bloc deems that third country rules for specific activities are equivalent to EU regulations — a designation the European Commission can withdraw. Mr Barnier added this would be in areas “where EU legislation foresees equivalence”, suggesting there would be no special arrangements to broaden such decisions to cover a broader range of financial services. Mr Davis’s speech last week argued that the EU benefited from the concentration of financial services in London and would pay a cost for fragmentation. But, echoing concerns among officials in France and Germany, Mr Barnier argued there would be a risk to Europe’s financial stability if the continent’s main financial centre was outside the EU’s regulatory orbit.
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"EU chief negotiator says no existing EU trade deal includes financial services.
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The EU will not do a post-Brexit trade with the U.K. that includes financial services, its chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier told a group of European newspapers.
Barnier said that the loss of access for the City of London was a consequence of the U.K.’s decision to leave the EU single market. “There is no place [for financial services]. There is not a single trade agreement that is open to financial services. It doesn’t exist,” Barnier told the Guardian.
“[It is the consequence of] the red lines that the British have chosen themselves. In leaving the single market, they lose the financial services passport.”
Just a few quotes from key players
The EU has ruled out the UK government’s preferred approach to a future trade deal, describing it as a risk to the European project,
So being unable to counter facts with anything you fall back on unpleasant bluster.
FFS TJ - do you kick every dog that barks at you in the street? Walk on!!
As for the good “guy“
"There will certainly be something about financial services (no really) but there will also be something about regulatory equivalence then, because what we don't want is that with this whole agreement, establish a financial centre that is competing with the continent...“
There will be a deal - shucks we know we have regulatory equivalence now, Schade - but we are still shit scared of competition from London so we can’t make it look too easy!
So still lots of 'something' and no plan then.
Guys a European - why would he be explaining our plan?
Plan?
If you’ve missed This Week then it’s worth catching up on iPlayer. George Galloway outlining Jezza’s vision of a post Brexit Britain of socialist partnership with Venezuela and the Ivory Coast while forming a renewed special relationship with the US of A once Bernie Sanders is in the White House
comedy gold
I'm just intrigued as to how one goes from being a school teacher to self-appointed grown up and apparent lynchpin of the City of London's successful negotiations of a financial deal that would break the central tenets of the EU's existence. Seems a bit of an odd, and if you'll excuse my directness, improbable career path.
A very warm welcome to the 220k EU nationals and 285k non EU nationals coming to the UK. Glad that they continue to vote with their feet.
Thats fine zokes, I can just add it to the list of things you need excusing for. 😏
So you're not going to tell us how a school teacher suddenly became the world's expert on international partnerships and trade? I mean your aloof attitude implies vastly superior knowledge to all others on this thread, so I'm wondering where this comes from.
No. The premises are incorrect. Enjoy wondering.
your aloof attitude implies vastly superior knowledge to all others
Has anyone seen THM in the same room as Jacob Rees-Mogg? No? Thought not ...
Sorry no double breasted pin stripe suits in my wardrobe. Come to think of it, no polka dot ties either
Hang on are you cheering the lowest migration figures for a long time and the mass exodus as a positive endorsement of howhgreat the uk is? Non eu migrants will havehbeen on a much longer process and will not be impacted as much by rule changes.
No I am offering a warm welcome to our new guests Great that they are not listening to Ill-edukated scare stories
all 220k of them - bienvenue
Well I'm sure they all checked in to hear that. Shame the people compiling the stats put brexit down as one of the reasons that numbers are significantly down.
Shame the people compiling the stats put brexit down as one of the reasons that numbers are significantly down
Who are you going to believe? The people who published the stats or the person who has secret knowledge of the talks going on and hangs out with the grown ups? Seems a simple choice to me.
I am sure it is factor - after all their physical security is under great threat as are their rights. Extraordinaily brave don’t you think??
alternatively they too can simply see through the BS
but amusing how the BBC chose to present the data yesterday.
the stats speak for themselves
Yes net migration is down significantly more people are leaving and less are arriving. Which bit of the stats are you missing?
It's almost like some people deliberately only use part of the data available to them in an attempt to further their own agenda's or justify personal world views...
Whether it's ignorance or they are just too dim to grasp simple concepts who knows...
One thing's for certain tho; they are probably a complete knobend.
#ambiguoussmiley
Are more people coming in or out, mike?
Given the doomsday outlook for the UK and the negative outlook for jobs and rights of EU citizens and the physical threats that remoaners are lying about, it’s amazing that there is any net migration at all
still as an advocate of FoM I am pleased that people are still coming here
Indeed ar you must have seen the news last night too
No. The premises are incorrect.
So so we’re going with unemployed troll, then. Actually, you don’t live in york do you? Only a friend’s husband has a very similar style to you when attempting to argue black is white.
According to the political journos, after yesterday's inner cabinet meeting ,to start the process that should have occurred before we triggered A50, we have a new plan, that asks more questions than it answers… "Ambitious Managed Divergence". All that noise about the GFA this week did have a purpose…
Anyway its all sorted 🙂 your getting
Ambitious Managed Divergence
Gotta love this game they come up with a new buzzword every other day.
the stats speak for themselves
Yes, yes they do. It is a shame you are apparently hard of hearing though. While not as bad as some may make out they certainly aren't a positive endorsement, particularly if you look at their stated reasons for coming .
It’s going to have spawned a whole new decade’s worth of bullshit bingo by the time it’s done.
Constructively ambiguous phrases.
Shaks - do they do an audio version too? Wow. I just looked at the stats. Despite all the catastrophe BS, the UK continues to attract more people with positive net migration from the EU and from outside the EU. That’s a good thing in my mind as is anything that debunks the doomsday scare stories that have become a feature of the debate (sic) since the result.
Managed divergence is pretty accurate - but in reality more like parallel equivalence and managed divergence at the same time
but in reality more like parallel equivalence and managed divergence at the same time
So, unicorns 🦄
So after 20 months of in-fighting, surpressing impact assessments and dithering it took a mere 8 hrs for the cabinet to decide that they'd like a cake & eat it Brexit !
Juncker will be chuckling into his pre-breakfast merlot this morning
Constructively ambiguous phrases.
did you mean
Constructively Relevant Ambiguous Phrases?
I just looked at the stats. Despite all the catastrophe BS, the UK continues to attract more people with positive net migration from the EU and from outside the EU
I assume your reports are slightly less one sided when the real picture is
The number of EU citizens leaving the UK is at its highest level for a decade with 130,000 emigrating in the year to September, figures show.
Now you are free to misrepresent the trend by stating truths that mask the truth but its as convincing as your career trajectory.
Always good to look at core source
”brexit could well be a factor in people’s decisions to move to and from the UK but people’s decision to migrate is complicated and can be influenced by lots of different reasons”
notice the nuance as opposed the hysteria
so we have spikes of migration after 2012 - the clues in the date, and the deviation from LT trends - and now we are returning back to the TOP end of the previous immigration ranges seen since the ONS published data
cue hysteria and hyperbole all wrapped up in a headline - swallow it up!!!!!
the reasons for why they are doing something is a separate issue from whether they are doing it. As a teacher and a report writer for the important surely you would understand this basic point?
My post contained facts and no hysteria and you are free to try and move the goalposts but its no more credible than your earlier misrepresentation.
It would be misleading to not note the greatest drop in EU migration and instead focus on the fact the trend is still for net migration. Thankfully the ONS report was indeed more nuanced than that.
theres are brexit factors in net EU citizens drop in the UK, the biggest is proably the drop in £
but Europe is also recovering (and growing faster than the UK- well not quite italy) & luring them back
Certainly European colleagues that have left have cited Brexit and the lurch to right-wing xenophobia around the ref campaign as a reason, some much more upset about it than others.
Theresa May had an opportunity to halt that lurch but her citizens of knowhere speech seemed deliberately intended to alieanate & divide
Either way Im sure that many Leave voters are pleased that the foreigners are leaving, its what they wanted after all, tehy want theyre Little England back just look at the comments on twitter about the latest immigration figures, the racism isnt even vaguely hidden
So being unable to counter facts with anything you fall back on unpleasant bluster.
You realised this at page 1100?
Then they are fools kimbers - immigration is not only needed it’s a major positive
but exactly - as moaners are all too keen to point out, the EU is now growing strongly and the € is also strong.
Still if the BBC lead the news with distorting analysis , no surprise that moaners follow suit.
given the one sided nature of your analysis of the figures, you are in no position to lambaste anyone, for distortion.
Heal thyself
Kimbers the ONS data plots nicely with the timing of the different business cycles
But amusing to see the statistical abuse being used nonetheless!!!
Kimbers the ONS data plots nicely with the timing of the different business cycles
Correlation does not equal causation. If we’re doing statistical abuse, then you’ve just broken rule 101 there.
Then they are fools kimbers – immigration is not only needed it’s a major positive
Which is why the current government keeps going back to it's 10,000 target, why they took so long to reassure people about their future rights - people will have decided to leave or take up other positions, worked to make sure business knew what was going on so they could plan etc.
None of that happened and the impact is being felt.
I guess I could read your post better and say the government have been fools to mess about with this and underestimate the value immigration brings to the UK.
Individuals leaving can take their positive impact to any one of 27 countries.
It doesn’t zokes, true. Well done
unless of course you care trying to lie about the impact of Brexshit 😏
As a supporter of FoM and encouraging immigration into the Uk, I would agree with your comment about government underestimating the value of immigration. The same goes for HM Oppo
unless of course you care trying to lie about the impact of Brexshit 😏
Show me where I’ve been talking about immigration figures recently
The more you feed him, the greater the waste of time and space in this thread.
You singular??? Why would I be interested in what you singular said?
The more you feed him, the greater the waste of time and space in this thread.
Amen to that. Leave the Mogglodyte alone.
So brexit is not making anybody leave and anyone who leaves is an idiot?
Anyone who claims brexit is the reason for leaving is obviously just using it as an excuse for being an idiot and falling for the hysteria of being told you can't stay or your future is not certain.
In fact it's all awesome and even better than before. It's like Sean Spicer is suddenly back in the game.
Yes - you just keep on abusing stats to “feed” the undemocratic agenda
learning from the leavers - when the facts don’t fit, just make it up...
I did stop feeding him for a while. Sadly, it didn’t stop the waste of space and time. I think he’s autotrophic.
If he’s going to complain about something he’s done in the same post as the complaint, then sure I’ll highlight his foolishness.