[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Curry sauce ?

X- post only served to drunks IGM !!

Too early for that 😉

An 12:30 staple to be sure in the old days

True but remoaners are winning it at the moment

Oh, I don't know, there's an equal amount of Uptopian fantasy bull-shine coming from the Brexiteers on this thread as well. Right, on you go, I feel solied enough now.

Cos he's a troll,who claims to work in a big financial organisation,

I thought he had 'students'.

It is a line of questioning I think is worth pursuing as it something THM is pretty vague about, yet gets a bit of a tetch on if questioned too hard as zokes did once about THM's 'involvement' with immigration in some regard.

I think some of the illusion might be shattered if we truly established what THM does in the real world. It can't be too high-powered as he seems to spend most of his time on here.......

Curry sauce!?! No chance.
Only the purest malt vinegar and salt.

And what’s this served to drunks nonsense?

Are you an English student by any chance?

Lovely bunch, but strange eating habits the English. I mean they even eat those deep fried Mars bars we did as a joke.

Was - at Scotland’s finest and second oldest in UK. But a long time ago. Not long after wee eck which is why I know he WAS taught proper economics even though he subsequently forget a lot of it (conveniently).

Highlights of Scottish chippies: the fresh fish; vinegar; haggis supper when pissed (never eaten sober!). Much better than southern version

Curry sauce marks you out as N of Watford

I thought he had 'students'.

He is always unclear as even he cannot be arsed to flesh out his stories.

As if by magic 😉

I can honestly say I’ve never had curry sauce in a chippy.
The mind boggles.

And Glasgow Uni!! I’d have had you down as an Edinburgh alumni but that’s fourth oldest I think. (StA, Gla, Aberd, Edi, Strath, HW, Dundee, Stirling as I recall - depends how you count them of course)

And you live up North ???

So what does THM do in the real world, then?

Batters cod and haddock obviously but Croydon not Clapham and serves the odd kebab

Could introduce Haggis Supper to S London though. There’s a thought...

A proper battered half haggis please. None of the haggis sausage nonsense.

Tut tut. Second oldest in UK and Scotland’s FINEST

You don’t need any more clues (or “links” 😉 )

Can’t be finest if they had you, so I discounted that.
😉

Checked the age order too.

So,still no honest answers,all smoke and mirrors.

Second oldest in UK and Scotland’s FINEST

Long time since I've bee but L'alba d'oro was highly regarded back in my day (which also implies it's been around a fair while, though I wouldn't expect 2nd oldest).

Mine's a fish supper with salt and sauce please.

Or maybe.....

[img] [/img]

Curry sauce marks you out as N of Watford

Watford, or Watford Gap?

I'm very slightly south of the latter, and would always have curry sauce (which my local chippy sells, thanks).

#fakenews

So what does THM do in the real world, then?

Whatever it is, he clearly doesn't know what a chippy is 🙂 Shame...

I think some of the illusion might be shattered if we truly established what THM does in the real world. It can't be too high-powered as he seems to spend most of his time on here....

Dunno that bloke with the porn on his pc had a nice job 🙂

Get them while they're young. You have to admit that Brexiteers are just a bit thick ... quite apart from indoctrinating children would you want someone who has produced the below teaching your children anything.

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/24490934247_46a95dbd31_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/24490934247_46a95dbd31_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Djbrv2 ]DSJSHtBX4AAOqbH[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/151687774@N05/ ]james anderson[/url], on Flickr

So rich, in this context

to work in a big financial organisation,which is probably a chippy in Clapham,

What’s a chippy ?

I think we can safely rule out comedy

Uncanny !!

Oh god now he thinks I am engaging with him - he will take the attention from anywhere;he cannot even be trusted to stick to his word and ignore me.
Uncanny !!

So what does THM do in the real world, then?

The few bits I can remember that I have seen over the years he claimed to be prepping children for eton entrance exams, Teaching economics at a high level, be involved with getting visas for over seas workers for his multinational finance co and at least one more. Ie A Walt

Blimey TJ that’s almost all true - a NY resolution?

The few bits I can remember that I have seen over the years he claimed to be prepping children for eton entrance exams

Ok not a full house. But when you claimed that intelligence had nothing to do with Eton entrance and played the false family card, I did post some copies of Eton entrance papers to illustrate just how wrong you were - not that that was a surprise

Teaching economics at a high level

True-Ish if you consider Cambridge Pre U and AS levels as high level - more intermediate to me. But 100% A and A*

be involved with getting visas for over seas workers for his multinational finance co

100% true and recent

Getting better. Keep it up

So what do you do, THM?

Or is it 'classified'?

Do I need to be glad you won't tell me - as then you'd have to kill me, obviously.

Or a Walt?

John Elliot MBE, manufacturer of white goods talking about Brexit on R4. At 2 mins in his opinion you should not have immigration to the UK from countries that are different as "Romanians are more highly motivated than British workers and they distort the market."

Brexit is Britain's shame. We look to be giving up membership of possibly the worlds most successful trading bloc because millions of Britains don't want foreigners coming here to work. In other words free movement of workers was a price too high to be a member of the club for many. People can BS up other reasons but that is it in the main.

So ninfan thinks Britain gets Europe's dregs rather than its best and uses a headline he read about a Lithuanian murderer that came here to murder again as an example. At least they are not Mexican though. Mexico's worst are all in America.

I know and work alongside many so called dregs from Eastern Europe. They are surveyors, nurses, hospital cleaners, classroom assistants, hotel receptionists, waste pickers at recycling facilities, kitchen hands at McDonald's.

The galling thing is that it is the older generation that voted for Brexit, where as my generation and younger will be the ones in a queue alongside these 'dregs' for a hospital bed. My children will be in a cramped classrooms with theirs competing for school places. I compete in the jobs market with those from Eastern Europe and still voted to remain as I enjoy working with those that are highly motivated, although this scares the likes of John Elliot MBE.

My FIL voted for Brexit despite having a daughter in law from France. She would unlikely have met and married his son and given him 2 grandchildren had she not had the right to travel and work here unrestricted.

I hoped my children would have that right also, however Farage and his "open door" to 300 million speech, posturing in front of posters of refugees, and talk of 60 million Turks imminently scaling the White Cliffs of Dover to ravage Dame Vera Lynn, have put pay to that.

Also, listening to the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg when he talks of patriotism makes me want to vomit. People questioning the backward step we are taking are unpatriotic. Since when does he decide what is deemed patriotic or not?

Some Tories now want us to build a Brittania II paid for by a lottery, so that Admiral May and Able Seamen Johnson, can cold call countries seeking trade, like a modern day Captain Cook, swapping epalettes for coconuts. We don't need a successful European trading partner on our doorstep when we can steam to the likes of Rhodesia, Ceylon, USSR, Burma, Dutch East Indies, and Abyssinia to create new deals.

I however, don't think that we will be stuck in a country of lower motivated workers for ever. The EU has faults, however few can argue that it is a success, both economically and in bringing people together from different backgrounds, and will continue to do so. When the older generation of Brexiteers start dieing off, younger people will want back in to the EU. Britain's shame can be corrected in 15 or 20 years time and people that voted to stay in the EU will be shown to be on the right side of history.

Holy member resurrection.

^^^ 100% agreement.

[quote=teamhurtmore ]True you guys descended below the Brexshiteers with insults and untruths.

[img] [/img]

Yep. That was pretty much unbeatable.

athgray that was worth coming back for.

I have followed the occasional thread, but Brexit really gets my heckles up.

Superb post athgray.

I just nodded my head all the way through reading your post.

Applause.

@ THM regarding populism and /or democracy.

https://institute.global/insight/renewing-centre/european-populism-trends-threats-and-future-prospects

And....?

My FIL voted for Brexit despite having a daughter in law from France.

Same here, but swap France for Portugal. Complete generational divide in the family when it came to the vote… and, unsurprisingly, still the same divide over what the best course for the country now is… no[i] "we narrowly voted in favour of it, so it's now magically the only course ahead possible" [/i]conversions have occurred amongst the "younger" generations (those under 60), and no regrets about the economic damage of the next 10+ years (the prediction of those over 60, not the younger fiolk) being discovered by the "older" generation at all.

Not possible to discuss the effect Leaving might have on movement of people and relationships between people of different nationalities, because, like most Leavers, the belief is firmly that "the wrong" people will be kept out of the British workplace, but "the right" people will be welcome and face no additional obstacles or reduced circumstances. Mention any rEU citizen they personally know, and, of course, they are the "right" kind of rEU worker, so are uneffected, and will continue to be uneffected.

I have followed the occasional thread, but Brexit really gets my heckles up

Thumbs up @Athgray.

And....?

because you seem, in calling remoaners undemocratic, to wilfully fail to differentiate between populism and democracy - or at least liberal democracy and deliberately confuse the former with the latter. I tend to think a liberal democracy that has its fundamental principles guaranteed and enshrined in supranational law as was provided for by EU membership is quite important you on the other hand appear not to and would attack those that do - a proper IG Farben capitalist.

?

Are you claiming that we do not have a liberal democracy etc?

You seem to be confusing lots of big words there.

I am saying it is now no longer guaranteed and will be eroded little by little.

Like say newspapers calling people traitors for applying the law
Did i miss THM's comment on that or did he hide back under his bridge when given the facts ?

What does THM do in the real world?

Anyone using the word 'remoaner' automatically marks themselves out as someone who isn't worth listening to. It's in the same ballpark as 'libtard' and 'cuck'.

When you don't have an argument resort to cheap insults and trolling.

[quote=dannyh ]What does THM do in the real world?
[b]IMPORTANT THINGS BRILLIANTLY WELL[/b]

A useful guide for life is “what would Chris failing grayling do?”
Then do the opposite.

Anyone using the word 'remoaner' automatically marks themselves out as someone who isn't worth listening to. It's in the same ballpark as 'libtard' and 'cuck'.

...and “ballpark”

Is "ballpark" now a derogatory term?

Or are you pretending to miss the point being made in the hope of derailing it? Hmmmm…

So ninfan thinks Britain gets Europe's dregs rather than its best and uses a headline he read about a Lithuanian murderer that came here to murder again as an example.

Don’t be daft, read what I said again, I would prefer us to be able to choose the best, rather than lumbered with the worst

EU regulation on freedom of movement is quite clear on this, EU nation states cannot restrict citizens freedom of movement based on previous criminal convictions. It is absolutely freaking ridiculous that we can refuse entry to the U.K. to (for example) [url= https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mike-tyson-denied-entry-to-the-uk-because-of-rape-and-assault-convictions-8996138.html ]Mike Tyson[/url] purely because of his rape conviction, but cannot equally refuse entry to a convicted murderer, paedophile or any other criminal on the basis of their EU citizenship

I would prefer us to be able to choose the best, rather than lumbered with the worst

and how many of the worst are we lumbered with, what is the scale of the 'problem' ?

What does THM do in the real world?

If I don't get an answer, I'm going to have to speculate.....

Or maybe he truly is a.......

[img] [/img]

None of your “business” but keep speculating. The obsession is closing in on the chief troll’s and that is quite something

Grum - sounds like you might be in wrong place. Just arrived in Lakes with nice layer of snow. Damp snow though so probably won’t last.

and how many of the worst are we lumbered with, what is the scale of the 'problem' ?

How many do you need?

let’s look at it another way - would allowing Tyson in have threatened the criminal justice system or created an unprecedented risk to the citizens of this country? Or was it ok to refuse him as a matter of principle? Perhaps even as a political gesture or an example to the world that we didn’t approve of the abuse of women?

Why is it OK to treat one person like that, but not another, purely on the basis of their country of origin being outside the EU?

Is it because he’s brown?

As usual you are spot on again:
CHAPTER VI

RESTRICTIONS ON THE RIGHT OF ENTRY AND THE RIGHT OF RESIDENCE ON GROUNDS OF PUBLIC POLICY, PUBLIC SECURITY OR PUBLIC HEALTH

Article 27

General principles

1. Subject to the provisions of this Chapter, Member States may restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health. These grounds shall not be invoked to serve economic ends

ninfan - Member

and how many of the worst are we lumbered with, what is the scale of the 'problem' ?

How many do you need?

let’s look at it another way - would allowing Tyson in have threatened the criminal justice system or created an unprecedented risk to the citizens of this country? Or was it ok to refuse him as a matter of principle? Perhaps even as a political gesture or an example to the world that we didn’t approve of the abuse of women?

Why is it OK to treat one person like that, but not another, purely on the basis of their country of origin being outside the EU?

Is it because he’s brown?

Posted 7 minutes ago # Report-Post

I call 'Fake News Bingo'!

In terms of being an exemplar of the genre that is right up there.

Choose a very, very narrow example. Flip it around to make your point (whatever that may be), expand it out again to be 'everyone', then chuck in an irrelevant non sequitur with an emotive edge.

Bravissimo!

Except to anyone who even thinks about it slightly it is just childish.

Go on Kilo, did you bother to read paragraph 2?

[i]Measures taken on grounds of public policy or public security shall comply with the principle of proportionality and shall be based exclusively on the personal conduct of the individual concerned. [b]Previous criminal convictions shall not in themselves constitute grounds for taking such measures.[/b]

The personal conduct of the individual concerned must represent a genuine, [b]present[/b] and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society. Justifications that are isolated from the particulars of the case [b]or that rely on considerations of general prevention[/b] shall not be accepted.[/i]

None of your “business” but keep speculating

Nah, not much point really as I know the answer.

Now then, what is a good metaphor for this situation?

[img] [/img]

However, those who “commit serious or persistent crimes” and are seen as a “genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat” can be refused entry to the UK.

Moreover, the deal David Cameron negotiated in February will further strengthen the legal wording around countries’ powers to prevent entry or deport nationals from other EU countries.

Countries will be able to stop individuals whose behaviour is “likely to” – rather than “does” – “represent a genuine and serious threat to public policy or security”. Countries will also be able to “take into account past conduct” and “the threat may not always need to be imminent”. The deal goes on to say that “even in the absence of a previous criminal conviction” countries can “act on preventative grounds”.

Never mind here's a tune to cheer you up

One thing you don’t know is the answer. But that’s not news is it

Ninfan Your post refutes your own claim. We are allowed to restrict access to people even under FoM. Your point was a Farage red herring and a deliberate lie

The obsession is closing in on the chief troll’s and that is quite something

not much point really as I know the answer.

One thing you don’t know is the answer

QED

Try not to get this bad Danny!! It’s sad

We are allowed to restrict access to people even under FoM

I never claimed we weren’t, I said that:

EU nation states cannot restrict citizens freedom of movement based on previous criminal convictions

Which is entirely correct, because the regulation specifically states

[i]Previous criminal convictions shall not in themselves constitute grounds for taking such measures.[/i]

Perhaps even you’re getting pulled into the remoaners web of lies and obfuscation THM

@kilo:

However, those who “commit serious or persistent crimes” and are seen as a “genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat” can be refused entry to the UK.

Again, you appear to be arguing the toss against something I never claimed. I have pointed out quite clearly that the test for refusal is completely different for non-EU citizens, like Tyson, from EU citizens.

Go on, defend tha5 to me - why should we continue to allow in convicted criminals (with an EU passport) to visit, live and work here that we would refuse from anywhere else in the world?

Nice try mon ami but you used that as an intro to a totally false point which was picked up on

It is absolutely freaking ridiculous that we can refuse entry to the U.K. to (for example) Mike Tyson purely because of his rape conviction, but cannot equally refuse entry to a convicted murderer, paedophile or any other criminal on the basis of their EU citizenship

We can do

Might want to see how many times you post compared to me and evaluate the facts Mr Purveyor of truth
PFt Facts eh

It’s sad

Q: So if convicted criminals are not automatically excluded, aren’t the leave campaigners right to say that murderers and rapists will be allowed in?

A: No. As Steve Peers, a professor of EU law at Essex University, has pointed out, they could be refused entry and it is hard to imagine any British judge or the European court of justice overturning that decision in cases involving such serious crimes. As the former Conservative immigration and policing minister Damian Green has said, nearly 6,000 European Economic Area nationals have been prevented from entering Britain since 2010.

We can do

We can’t, we can only refuse (EU citizens) on current pattern of behaviour, not past criminal record. Everyone else we can flat refuse if they have been given a prison sentence of (IIRC) more than four years

Ninfan if you get your way and we leave the EU europol etc how will we know who the convicted foreign criminals are to keep them out? Or do you suggest we stay in the data sharing club?

The irony of criminal immigrants coming into the country is that theresa may was asleep on shift in her previous post when it was her job.

BTW Danny - you have 12 [b]CONSECUTIVE[/b] obsessive posts in one thread to beat before you can achieve/match sad, chief troll status - I lost count as 12, so could be even more. But a round dozen is some achievement!! 😯

How many do you need?

How many are there? Surely you need to have an idea of the number to know if it is an actual problem or just something in your head.

mattyfez - Member

The irony of criminal immigrants coming into the country is that theresa may was asleep on shift in her previous post when it was her job.

That's... charitable. The other interpretation is that under her power the home office created an endless stream of stories about how terrible immigration and the ECHR are. (that didn't stop her from just making some up, mind). Whenever a case was handled poorly and the government lost, they'd say "look at what They make us do" rather than "we ****ed that one"

May is a master of management by failure.

[b]"controls on immigration"[/b]

So goes the rallying cry.

[b]"it's not about immigration"[/b]

And round, and round we go…

teamhurtmore - Member

BTW Danny - you have 12 CONSECUTIVE obsessive posts in one thread to beat before you can achieve/match sad, chief troll status - I lost count as 12, so could be even more. But a round dozen is some achievement!!

Posted 5 minutes ago # Report-Post

It would be a lot less if people would answer straightforward questions, though......

Ah well, I can tell you're getting another tetch on, so never mind.

BTW - What is it you do again?

Posts till STFU?

May let's criminals come in unchecked.

Also May: there's too may immigrants, many of whom are criminals, send them all back!