Forum menu
Thm that would be nice on an Athena motivational poster but I fear demonstrates a lack of reality regarding the lives of a awful lot of people in the uk. Do people on minimum wage have any meaningful options they can choose to mitigate the effects of brexit? Those on benefits, public service employees, etc?
Slightly yes. We are in a later phase in the current cycle. We have not experienced the doomsday that was predicted so far. Do you want some trumpesque tax cuts??
Oddly those who really care should be pleased about that. Much better that wishing bad outcomes on others -
Is that an uncaring remoaner shocker 😉 ?
Do you want some trumpesque tax cuts??
Yes please.
I’m not a very pleasant person. 8)
Everyone is a decision maker, every day.
With regards Brexit?
Please explain that!
They’ve been trying to wreck my children’s prospects for an unachievable dream of something that never was.
I would suggest that a hell of a lot of Brexit voters would point the finger at those who voted remain in the same way. How many young peoples jobs have been exported abroad over the past few decades in order to build the dream of a Federal Europe?
Do people on minimum wage have any meaningful options they can choose to mitigate the effects of brexit? Those on benefits, public service employees, etc?
What meaningful options did they have to mitigate the effects of immigration/freedom of movement (research says this negatively affected them disproportionately, even if the aggregate effect of immigration as a totality was (fiscally) beneficial)
Thanks THM "democracy an inconvenient fact" we only have to follow through with brexfarce if the Democratic will to do so remains , if the Democratic mood changes we can abandon the idea. So given you agree Brexit is a bad thing you should applaud those who love their country enough to fight against it , not constantly whine about them just because you have surrendered the fight.
if the Democratic will to do so remains
You mean something like having elected a government on the manifesto pledge to complete the process?
Followed by overwhelming Parliamentary vote
[quote=ninfan ]I would suggest that a hell of a lot of Brexit voters would point the finger at those who voted remain in the same way. How many young peoples jobs have been exported abroad over the past few decades in order to build the dream of a Federal Europe?
They might, but they'd be wrong. Which of course you know. How many young people have had jobs created by membership of the EU - which everybody agrees was of net economic benefit to the UK?
Because of course we know that to Brexiteers democracy is a one time only thing, and it's not possible to have a future vote which might go differently.
Given THM is so disappointed by the lack of anybody engaging with his parliamentary vote thing he's mentioned it 3 times now, I'll put him out of his misery - it's BS.
One is better than zero a racer (especially as you guys can’t cope with even one)
Remoaners - plebs are too thick to vote; ignore the fact we lost; keep voting ‘til we win; then stop at the democratic (sic) decision. Spoken in true EU fashion with Ode to Joy playing in the background
One of my fears is that the people of hate have got the bit between their teeth.
They live in a perpetual state of loathing. They NEED to hate something.
What or who will be next?
Capital punishment is the obvious thing which the hate press will demand for “ the hard working British taxpayer” to have a vote on.
Then our children will need protecting from homosexuals , then somewhere on the list nuns walking orphans through the woods will need protecting from hooligans on mountain bikes. I’m sure THM is preparing for this by taking up knitting instead.
We have seen what Europeans working together can achieve instead of fighting each other. The U.S became the worlds biggest super power. Just because someone is called Lamansky it doesn’t make him any less american.
I want a brighter future where we pool our resources and realise our full potential. What would a plucky British bulldog large hadron collider look like? What is the uk space industry ever going to achieve on its own?
All we are going to do is start petty bickering and waste precious time to appease a foreign newspaper baron.
How many young peoples jobs have been exported abroad over the past few decades in order to build the dream of a Federal Europe?
It's far more complex than that, but you are ignoring the complexity cos it's suits your emotive position.
Re multiple referendums, I have been simply trying to draw attention to the ridiculousness of sticking like glue to the outcome of the first one without any planning or thought.
If a corporate employee acted like this they'd be fired. Why do we tolerate this lack of competence from our government?
One is better than zero a racer
No. Zero ill concieved disastrous referendum is better than one.
The Conservatives set out their ultimate stance on energy in one key sentence:‘Above all, we believe that energy policy should be focused on outcomes rather than the means by which we reach our objectives. So, after we have left the European Union, we will form our energy policy based not on the way energy is generated but on the ends we desire.’
In other words, the amount of energy produced, and the profit arising from it, is more important than reducing environmental impact. Like Labour’s, Conservative energy policy centres mainly on nuclear and gas, but with a few key differences, such as its insistence on the benefits of fracking. The manifesto talks a lot about nuclear, oil and gas in terms of ‘protect[ing] our critical national infrastructure.’
Meanwhile in Germany
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/germany-energy-consumer-christmas-paid-supply-demand-outstrip-renewables-wind-solar-a8129716.html ]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/germany-energy-consumer-christmas-paid-supply-demand-outstrip-renewables-wind-solar-a8129716.html[/url]
One of my fears is that the people of hate have got the bit between their teeth.
They live in a perpetual state of loathing. They NEED to hate something.
What or who will be next?
Hmm, interesting question... let’s flip back a page or two shall we?
Everyone who voted out can * right off you ignorant *.
QED
[s]Remoaners [/s] [b][i]Brexies[/b][/i]- plebs are too thick to [b][i]be trusted to [/b][/i]vote [b][i]the same way again[/b][/i]; ignore the fact we lost; keep voting ‘til we win [b][i](remember we held the second referendum in 2016, not the first) [/b][/i]; then stop at the democratic (sic) decision.
FTFY THM. you wouldn’t want to get your facts wrong now would you. 😉
we held the second referendum in 2016, not the first
Nope, we’ve only ever held one referendum on EU membership
Ninfan - I used to be a fairly chilled out individual. Even after the 2016 referendum I was interested in finding a solution that met the desires of both the Brexies and those of us who choose to remain in the EU. I posted on here to that effect.
However the Brexies have rejected everything that was good about this country - compromise, tolerance, a belief in moving forward - and have replaced it with general nastiness (from Enemies of the People, to Brexit Mutineers).
And eventually it is difficult not to suggest fighting fire with fire.
People like you, or at least your persona on here, and your behaviour have led me to think that wishing harm on Brexies isn’t such a bad thing.
ninfan - Member
we held the second referendum in 2016, not the first
Nope, we’ve only ever held one referendum on EU membership
Close enough Brexy-boy
Hmm, interesting question... let’s flip back a page or two shall we?Everyone who voted out can * right off you ignorant *.
QED
I tell plenty of people to **** off ,doesn't mean I hate them.
Even after the 2016 referendum I was interested in finding a solution that met the desires of both the Brexies and those of us who choose to remain in the EU.
Yeah, I’ve met a few like you... they propose a “compromise” that results in us not actually leaving the EU (the one thing people actually voted for) but essentially involves everyone but them giving ground, by conflating it with vague promises on all sorts of conflated issues that they “think” mattered to leave voters.
Edit Of course, had it been 48/52 the other way, I’m sure you would have been full of all sorts of proposals for compromise that ‘took account of the feelings of those who voted to leave’, and would have been all for changes in EU immigration policy, trade deals etc.
However the Brexies have rejected everything that was good about this country...[ironic link to]....People like you, or at least your persona on here, and your behaviour have led me to think that wishing harm on Brexies isn’t such a bad thing.
Wow ^2 😯
Step away from the hyperbole and BS and look at what is actually happening, Then you can relax and avoid such unpleasant mists.
well for a start it may have prompted some discussion in westminster on whether or not they should use the tools they had at hand, rather than pass the buck and blame the EU every sodding time, eh? but doing that was just too easy. 🙄
ninfan - Member
Even after the 2016 referendum I was interested in finding a solution that met the desires of both the Brexies and those of us who choose to remain in the EU.Yeah, I’ve met a few like you... they propose a “compromise” that results in us not actually leaving the EU (the one thing people actually voted for)
Isn't this basically what our government has now signed up for though(*)? We're not actually leaving the EU, just going to pay them more money and have less control over what it does.
(*) Unless we can invent a magical pixie-powered border scheme.
Yeah, I’ve met a few like you
Probably around 16,000,000 Brexy-boy.
Anyway I’ll compromise on passport colour as it seems to mean a lot to some people.
What you giving in return, or are you all take?
on whether or not they should use the tools they had at hand, rather than pass the buck and blame the EU every sodding time, eh? but doing that was just too easy.
Repeated governments, of all political hues, had failed to do so. I [i]suggest[/i] that a fair proportion of leave voters voted not on the EU that they had today, but the one that they know that we were irreversibly gravitating towards, and that (despite repeated promises otherwise, see for example Maastricht and Lisbon treaties) the proletariat would never get to vote on.
oh, but we very much are 😀We're not actually leaving the EU, just going to pay them more money and have less control over what it does.
It’s ironic really, all the remainders spend a year whining on apoplecticcally about Hard v Soft Brexit, then when they are presented with the chance of a soft Brexit, start whining that that’s not [i]really[/i] Brexit at all.
Probably around 16,000,000 Brexy-boy.
Shame you couldn5 convince another million, isn’t it 😉
THM - what can I say? I’ve put up with the Brexies for long enough. It’s time we got rid of them.
If only we’d kept the colonies we could reinstate transportation. 😉
NinfanIt’s ironic really, all the remainders spend a year whining on apoplecticcally about Hard v Soft Brexit, then when they are presented with the chance of a soft Brexit, start whining that that’s not really Brexit at all.
Not sure about ironic, but it's very confusing.
We voted to leave the EU.
And after a year of negotiations by David Davis, we agreed to basically stay in the EU but pay more money for less influence.
I'm still struggling to understand how anyone on either side of the divide thinks this is a good idea.
I can only assume that there's something I've missed. But maybe Brexies really are that easy to fool.
by conflating it with vague promises on all sorts of conflated issues that they “think” mattered to leave voters.
I think that many leavers do have real issues, and these need tackling.
Where we differ is the idea that leaving the EU will actually help. I think it will make matters worse. I work in an industry with a skills shortage. Dissuading skilled workers from coming will not help this, but it will make wholesale outsourcing more necessary, which will make the skills gap worse.
And yes, there might be visas available, but that itself along with the political and social climate will harm skilled immigration. It isn't all Polish plumbers. Although going by the tradesman thread we seem to have a genuine shortage of plumbers so surely the Poles are needed...
It’s the grass-roots football/training academy argument though, isn’t it?
Maybe that industry could put some effort into securing its own future by training people? For the past decade it’s been cheaper and easier for them to just buy it in from abroad rather than build the next generation.
Well Ninfan that's called capitalism/free-market economies.
Mol. Remoaners should tackle their own issues first: lying about UK economic progress and prospects; lying about rights of EU citizens and causing unnecessary stress simply to achieve their minority, undemocratic aims; wishing harm on fellow citizens simply because they have different opinions; abusing democracy and rights; falsely attributing issues/challenges to Brexshit; grossly exaggerating developments and undermining UK’s position; playing passive victims (woe is me, if I return to UK my safety is at risk and similar BS) and refusing to look forward.
Then they can worry about the Brexshiteers. Decisions they can make every day 😉
Shame you couldn5 convince another million, isn’t it
Ahh, poor Brexy-boy. Your argumentative talents are failing you tonight.
Good luck with that one over the next year or so.
He’s already won. Why should he worry??
He’s correct too. We failed to present a compelling vision for membership of Europe. We almost did the same with the little Indy thing and all their lies and didn’t learn the lesson from those errors. Big mistake. Repeating them twice was stupid. We should look to ourselves first. We lost. We are responsible.
Trying to subsequently out-BS the Brexshiteers makes remoaners worse than them
Tide’s turned THM.
Stick your head in the sand if you must.
Why should a Brexy worry? Well for most of them because they won.
The sensible predictions are coming true (I accept there were some outlandish ones - but I hear those most often from Brexies), and the strong Brexy areas will be hit hardest.
Around 15% GDP underperformance over a 20 year period was it? Or 20% over 15%? I cant be bothered checking.
I’d say 15 months before we start paying for our Brexy friends stupidity, we’re pretty much on for that.
No thanks I have no interest in joining the remoaner camp
I prefer forward looking Democrats who can accept their own responsibilities
Are you do want to come and join me!
Well I never.
lying about UK economic progress and prospects; lying about rights of EU citizens and causing unnecessary stress simply to achieve their minority, undemocratic aims; wishing harm on fellow citizens simply because they have different opinions; abusing democracy and rights; falsely attributing issues/challenges to Brexshit; grossly exaggerating developments and undermining UK’s position; playing passive victims (woe is me, if I return to UK my safety is at risk and similar BS) and refusing to look forward.
Isn't that largely how leave swung the referendum?
Why should I 'look forward' to a bleaker future with the rights, privileges and most importantly the protections that I currently enjoy having been taken away from me by people who themselves will either distance themselves from those consequences or point blank won't take responsibility for them or offer any solutions to ameliorate the inevitable pending shitstorm. You bang on about democracy and rights without the faintest grasp of those concepts which put you in the head-banger camp as far as I am concerned i.e. dangerous.
Around 15% GDP underperformance over a 20 year period was it? Or 20% over 15%? I cant be bothered checking.
Obviously not. As that sounds more like a reason for leaving the EU than remaining. QED
X-post edit. No - I wish no harm on people simply for holding different views nor do I want to ‘get rid of them’x That’s very unpleasant.
I prefer forward looking Democrats who can accept their own responsibilities
Empty words from a complete time waster.
Hope you're having a good break.
trouble is non of that quote from THM is true
Its all going pretty much as predicted. Its an economic disaster and this is only the beginning.
Thank you Perdy. Good luck with the world of no rights, privileges and protection BTW.
(Don’t worry. When you wake up they will still be there but the bogey men will not)
I have an old aunt who said just before the vote "what was the point of winning the war if we were going to put the Germans in charge in the end anyway?"
Was this a common feeling amongst the voters? (Old or otherwise)
Very nice kelvin thank you. Did you?
Church service and Xmas lunch with family particular favourites. Real meaning and even shared a table with a leaver rather than wishing them harm. Les Mis last night a close second.
TJ given that you were saying that we would have a 4% recession we know how much credence your predictions hold. Ditto no progress, no behind the scenes negotiations, bankers flooding out of London etc
No really 😯
Ahem, the bogey men are already here.
Its all going pretty much as predicted. Its an economic disaster and this is only the beginning.
Money isn’t everything though, is it?
The social impacts of EU membership aren’t limited to the economy, now you can argue which of those are good and which are bad, but trying to pretend the argument for and against EU membership is a pure economic one is childish
You may wish to tell your Aunt we didn't win, we simply stopped the Soviets getting to the English Channel.
THM - so you think that missing out on say 15% of growth we might have had (not a 15% fall, just not as much rise as we would have had by staying in) is an advert for leaving?
Strange days. Or perhaps the port is strong with you tonight (I see you as a port drinker - you may not be).
And why shouldn’t one wish Brexies harm - by their actions they wished this country harm.
Didn’t know you could double post from a phone.
So go on ninfan what are the negative social impacts of EU membership?
It didn’t make sense once let alone twice.
Who’s got the port fingers ?? 😉
Wishing them harm is spiteful and undignified. It’s totally unnecessary but indicative of how away from democratic ideals remoaners have lurched.
“We lost so let’s wish harm on them and/or get rid of them”
😯 ^ !
Very sad to read the kind of stuff. Would make the EDL or the SNP blush
Funny quote from a Scandinavian on my twitter feed about brexit, patriotism and Rose tinted nostalgia today:
we got over being vikings a long time ago
So go on ninfan what are the negative social impacts of EU membership?
Mass youth unemployment and true austerity not the pretend kind (unless you were able to avoid the silly € project or didn’t live in the periphery)
THM - I’ll take the Port fingers one. Fair call 😕
The rest made sense. As for wishing them harm because we lost? Nonsense.
Read what I posted earlier this afternoon.
Yes I have come to wish them harm, but due to their actions since June 2016, not because I was on the loosing side. I’m a Scots rugby supporter for goodness sake - I may like winning but I’m pretty good at loosing and getting on with life.
THM - I’ve just seen your last post. You are way into BS territory now.
When did the EU cause “Mass youth unemployment and true austerity“ in Britain?
Arguably the reverse but definitely not that.
And we’ve done the mass youth unemployment thing to death anyway. You can’t tell because the figures aren’t consistent and the more consistent figures look a lot closer.
Don’t BS.
So your saying the UK has mass youth unemployment and real austerity because it is in the EU thn? Or are you deflecting as there are not social negatives for the people of the UK?
You will win at Boofield in the 6N most likely so you of all people should be able to look forward
In Britain??? I even made reference to the geographic region concerned and the additional reason
You do really have to stop making stuff up
(unless you were able to avoid the silly € project or didn’t live in the periphery)
No cranks we (UK) had neither indeed our fiscal policy was much more expansive than those in the € area fortunately. One reason we recovered earlier and stronger
Always ready with the anti-Scots jibe, THM - Boofield (I’m assuming you don’t mean Twickenham) this evening.
A man could start to assume you have a particular view of the world, but I’m sure I’m wrong.
Add in widespread legal tax offshoring (Apple, amazon, etc.)
Offshoring of production including subsequent weakening of standards and oversight/monitoring (horse meat scandal anyone?)
Lack of democracy (you only need to look at events over last few years in Greece, Italy, and more recently Spain/Catalonia)
Freedom of movement not matched by integration of criminal justice systems etc (multiple cases)
To name a few
Ninfan - don’t think those are really EU issues. The EU has improved things in a couple of those areas and in others is incidental to the issue.
Sorry kid.
Like other types of behaviour you should be embarrsssed by lack of respect for kickers at Boofield.
So your saying the UK has mass youth unemployment and real austerity because it is in the EU thn? Or are you deflecting as there are not social negatives for the people of the UK?
Whilst quietly ignoring decades of under investment and [s]feathering thier and thier buddies nests[/s] poor decision making which successive UK governments had complete control over.
The only slight respite was the coalition, when clegg committed career suicide to hold back some of the the more mental tory policies that are now starting to be implemented.
I'm glad he's being knighted, he deserves it.
don’t think those are really EU issues.
All are enabled by EU. You simply can’t claim that freedom to incorporate in any EU tax territory isn’t related to the problem and directly brought about be EU rules
Labour voters agaisnt Brexit ?
It’s totally unnecessary but indicative of how away from democratic ideals remoaners have lurched.
Again THM you really need to grasp the difference between the concepts of populism and democracy or at least liberal democracy as we understand it - the EU referendum was the abandonment of democracy in favour of populism.
See Marc F. Plattner as a good read on the concept in particular 'The Populist Temptation'
https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/article/populism-pluralism-and-liberal-democracy
Well I hope Labour don't lose voters. At least if we have to stomach Brexit there's a fighting chance the Tories might lose the next election.
teamhurtmore - Member
Like other types of behaviour you should be embarrsssed by lack of respect for kickers at Boofield.
Does your imaginary friend not tell you off about ignoring the log in thine own eye? Twickenham fans drowning out the haka, booing McCaw as he is subbed, and abusing Nigel Owens over his sexuality. I am sure you are equally disgusted by those actions. But hey...at least you are consistent in your dislike, and indeed low level racism, towards Scots.
Corbyn is pro brexit though, for his own dumbass reasons, he's made that abundantly clear.
It would be interesting to see him squirm if he actually did end up in power.
Shouting ideals from the sidelines is easy.
the EU referendum was the abandonment of democracy
I know, what kind of democracy allows thickos to have a say. Leave decisions to the elite who know so much better!!
The reason the media moguls and Tories are so gunho for Brexit is the anti tax avoidance regulations being proposed in the EU , the future plan trumpeted by the brexiteers for the UK economy is to become a tax haven?
We have integrated justice ie the European Arrest Warrant with national oversight 1st appearance is in bow street mags. Plus the integration of the justice system at a appeal level is the brexiteers big complaint ie the ECJ.
The European standards are stronger than elsewhere and again a major brexiteers complaint we couldn't buy cheap food from some African nations as it didn't meet European food safety standards.
I am ducks but as many have said on the rugby thread, behaviour and lack of respect at Murray field is worse than elsewhere. But feel free to use the lazy “racist” card to hide from inconvenient facts.
But labour will deliver a jobs first brexshit which is different, some might even say bespoke 😉
Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. (Compatible?)We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.
What’s not to like with Jezza?
I know, what kind of democracy allows thickos to have a say.
Here we go again with the circular argument..
We've established that the leave campaign was aimed straight at the kind of people who read the sun and can't draw a distinction between :
1.*Let's* give the NHS ..
2.*We will* give the NHS..
3. Sorry guys were gonna have to privatise the NHS to pay for this mess..
It's a complex decision that should not have been put to referendum, especially in light of all the vested media manipulation.
We let the Scots have a vote and they had WoS and Scotland’s Future - why shouldn’t they have a say even if they are fed BS?
Our lot have been poor at planning but poor old Salmond didn’t even know what currency they would use. How crap was that. But if people want to swallow BS that’s their prerogative
Clean beaches , maternity / paternity leave , paid holidays, safe working hours ,
a court above the national level to protect your rights from State injustice,a right to life for UK soldiers whose widows can demand inquests , are these examples of social Ills ?
THM - you do have an unfortunate habit of coming out with comments that might be taken as somewhat anti-Scots.
From “little nippy” which I think is your name for the current Scots First Minister, to “Boofield” and plenty in between.
Now I’m no fan of Sturgeon’s politics (though I do quite like her opportunism) and as an ex-goal kicking back row forward (yes I played at a low level) I don’t condone booing (I preferred the highly accurate “Boring, boring England” if we must but even then only to friends who know my real views), but you need to stop.
I’m sure you don’t mean to be racist, so don’t make comments that can be misinterpreted. Or at least don’t make them so often.
And back on the thread...