They should definitely paint that onto the side of a big red bus.
Also EU having a crises over the likely US Ambassador 🙂 in fairness you can understand given the broadside he delivered on the BBC
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/european-union-trump-ambassador-ted-malloch-parliament
Supposedly the EU are discussing a "responce" to Trump's stance on refugees. Given the disaterous mess they have made with tragic consequences both for migrants themselves drowing in the Med by the 1000's (including the largest single death toll from a boat which departed from Egypt containing mostly Moroccans and Tunisians) or victims of terrorism at the hands of those claiming to be refugees - I am not sure on what authority they think they will be speaking
Will read the rest of the White Paper Tomorrow. This from the into sums up my feelings
All good conrete stuff to hang your hat on. The depths of stupidity that is leading the way in this complete and utter ballsup. A predicted brighter future and a better Britain.
FFS! How stupid are the voting public?
Amazing how the couldn't have circulated this earlier 😉 would have made some interesting points in the debate...
Jamby how can anyone make predictions on the severity of the impact of brexit without listing them by possible outcomes.
Not merely forming a new partnership with Europe, but building a stronger, fairer, more Global Britain too.And let that be the legacy of our time. The prize towards which we work. The destination at which we arrive once the negotiation is done.
And let us do it not for ourselves, but for those who follow. For the country’s children and grandchildren too.
So that when future generations look back at this time, they will judge us not only by the decision that we made, but by what we made of that decision.
They will see that we shaped them a brighter future.
They will know that we built them a better Britain.”
Just mastabatory aid for the Brexopaths. I also understand Vera Lynn is about to re-release her greatest hits so they'll really be able to go for it.
Effectively the BoE has said Brexit is expected to have no negative effect in 2017 - after vote they downgraded their 2017 forecast to 0.8% it has now been revised upwards to 2.3% ie pretty much what if was before
Not quite.
The November forecast for 2017 growth was 1.4%, it is now 2%.
The forecast without triggering A50 (which technically I suppose hasn't happened yet) was 2.3% pre-vote and 0.8% if we were 7 months into the negotiations by now (which we clearly aren't). But these two figures were without the effect of the BoE's stimulus package - exchange rates and inflationary effects (small thus far but coming) ought to have been factored in as that was predictable.
So in reality, we're below where we would have been without the vote, but above where we were predicted to be if we'd triggered A50 7 months ago and not had a stimulus package.
That's all roughly factual - and shouldn't really surprise anyone.
The BoE look to be doing excellent recovery work. Pity they have to.
Yep imagine what they could have done instead...
Remain's economic project fear has been totally shredded.
At the EU summit in Malta May will update the EU on her meeting with Trump and his goal to have European nations meet their NATO 2/20 spending targets. Germany alone is €30bn per anum below target. EU NATO members are in a very weak position
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38849868
Remain's economic project fear has been totally shredded.
The predictions were post brexit, or were these other predictions about the time before brexit that nobody made
Isn't it interesting that the white paper recognises that so much of Brexit is about people's feelings, rather than facts?
e.g.:
"The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always [i]felt[/i] like that."
Emotions.
Well it is/was. Facts were/are irrelevant as were/are the expers who understand them. The Brexshit case was based on five core lies that made people feel bad. It was brilliantly awful and worked.
Hence impressive that they, or some intern, managed to spin out so many pages of background material to produce what looks like a white paper. Although tbf there were a few things where the background material covered stuff that I didn't understand eg Euratom
Jambas, while Osborne and Co did ramp up the hyperbole, it s largely because they/the headlines misquoted the work that they referred to. GOs doomsday headlines were based on the Treasury's models. The main one was a fifteen year forecast and there was a supplementary one that was a two year forecast.
We have been through neither adjustment period. All we have had is 7 months during which we have had a massive stimulatory boost of a 20% devaluation and a cut in interest rates fuelling higher-than-expected consumer spending competing against uncertainty and rising inflationary expectations. The real negative impacts eg, rising rates and disruptions to trade have yet to happen.
Bloody Nora, we appear to be agreeing again THM.
Walk away quietly, whistling an innocent tune.
Brexiters must be so proud to have T MAY as Trump ally.
No more spoilers on the WP by the way, that's my Saturday night entertainment. Sounds like it's a comedy / Whitehall farce - no?
Remain's economic project fear has been totally shredded.
Project arsehole is bang on track though.
If we do start building a better Britain now, it will be if the government starts properly investing in the country for a change instead of running into the ground.
I would rather hope that is the private sector doing most of the investment
Remain's economic project fear has been totally shredded.
I feel that we are in so much of a better place for it too. I can't wait to see what happens when A50 kicks in for real and proper negotiations start and not the Trumpesque bluff and bluster of aiming for a better place and that we'll like it when we get there.
I wish I could have as much blind faith as you Jamba, unfortunately in the real world it is somewhat more difficult. 😛
The fact that something hasn't happened doesn't mean that the opposite has.
cchris2lou - Member
Brexiters must be so proud to have T MAY as Trump ally.
No, not proud yet as the job of dismantling the entire EU bureaucratic system has not been completed yet.
Remain's economic project fear has been totally shredded.
I don't think this helps, the fact is that the remains fears were about when we leave the EU. As it stands we have not left yet.
And the BOE have carried out stimulus to help things along in the short term.
I still want to understand what the berexit economic model is, the answers so far have been weak.
There must be members of the brexit camp on here who can actually explain what is going to happen?
This will wind up the out voters!
[url=
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/762528/team-gb-england-scotland-wales-national-sides-may-be-forced-wear-eu-flag-shirts-brussels ]Sport Shirts...[/url]
Given the disaterous mess they have made with tragic consequences both for migrants themselves drowing in the Med by the 1000's (including the largest single death toll from a boat which departed from Egypt containing mostly Moroccans and Tunisians)
so it's now the EU's fault that people were exploited, loaded on to boats up to the gunwales [b]in a foreign country[/b], because the EU wasn't prepared to send it's army you don't want it to have to stop them!?
or victims of terrorism at the hands of those claiming to be refugees
citation needed, and again, get some perspective. how many people are killed and seriously injured on our roads every year? how many are killed in terrorist attacks ( never mind how many of those perpetrated by people claiming to be refugees )?
it is awful that people are killed by terrorists, of course, but the risk to life is tiny, and the threat exaggerated repeatedly by you. just stop it. it makes you look unhinged.
But being unhinged is a prerequisite of being pro Brexit isn't it?
Everyone I've met is at best deluded, at worse, a lot worse.
A recent tweet . . . .
David Schneider ?@davidschneider Feb 1
Government to release Brexit white paper after #Article50 vote. In other news, restaurants will now only give you a menu after your meal.
🙂
Said menu to contain amusing typos I hear.
And the wine is great value for the age... Thankfully it's all written in English again
did you not read ?everything will be brilliant and our grandkids will thanks us and we will be safe from terrorists.There must be members of the brexit camp on here who can actually explain what is going to happen?
What do you need now details ?
The way jamby uses asylum seekers to always prove the EU is shit - let them in look they cause terrorism or keep them out look they die due to the EU. Being able to reverse the argument[ whilst ignoring the facts and standards relating to reasoned and logical debate], so the EU is always to blame is an intriguing insight into the sort of flexible approach one needs to remain positive.
WHen it goes belly up I think we will see much much more of this - its their fault they wont let us have free trade - but you chose to leave- yes bit its there fault as we wanted etc
because the EU wasn't prepared to send it's army
How would it when one doesn't exist (thankfully!).
Interesting article for debate:
[url] http://www.paulormerod.com/why-the-economics-profession-remains-blind-to-the-benefits-of-brexit/ [/url]
NB: Arrrghhh, forum is completely bust, can't preview etc.
"How would it when one doesn't exist (thankfully!)"
This has always puzzled me. We love NATO, an organisation that binds us to military action regardless of our wishes if a NATO member is attacked. There is also no democratic oversight of the organisation.
Yet, the moment anyone suggests a major political union we elect MPs to and have major influence over at every level, a large number of the NATO lovers run around screaming like deranged lunatics.
"How would it when one doesn't exist (thankfully!)"
i said he didn't want it, not that it existed.
preview works fine for me. 😛
Read the article Dragon.
Interestingly he doesn't say there are benefits to Brexit, only that there might be if we manage to negotiate deals that are better than we already have (statement if bleeding obvious) and that the euro (are we in the euro, I don't recall) was a bad idea - which I agree with but isn't a Brexit question.
Finally he suggests economists don't understand innovation - some truth there, models don't do disruptive things very well. But again that's not a Brexit issue.
Now if he'd actually said Brexit was disruptive and the models can't model it because... then it would have been a better article.
As it was, it was a learned man (unless the British Academy have dropped their standards) writing a frothy newspaper piece that didn't really add much.
Pity, I suspect he might actually have something interesting to say - that wasn't it.
Because the Russians would be on the french coast before an EU sub-committee had even sat to discuss the problem of invasion. Plus for good reason no one trusts the Germans.
But in reality could an EU army even defend its borders, especially post Brexit?
Dragon - Omerod's piece is surprisingly disappointing IMO and frankly odd.
So he has a central narrative that economists are opposed to Brexit in general. Why:
1. They generally see benefits in free trade - true
2. The problem of equilibrium, static models - true
After a little discourse on both issues that do not support the headline, he finally comes to the crux of the issue - THE EURO - which he correctly describes as "one of the most efficient job destruction machines ever created." Yes, we know that...
...but what has that got to do with us? We are not members of the EZ. Irrelevant point.
Our membership of the EU and the Single Market was simply about ensuring that trade with our major trading partners was as easy and as cheap as possible and that we were an attractive place for inward investment. Nothing more.
We have just chose to throw that away for no good reason. That is why economist have 20:20 vision with Brexshit.
Not again...
Not wot?
Because the Russians would be on the french coast before an EU sub-committee had even sat to discuss the problem of invasion. Plus for good reason no one trusts the Germans.But in reality could an EU army even defend its borders, especially post Brexit?
WGAF? we'll never know, will we?
The Russians know that Russian troops in France means that the major Russian cities cease to exist. It's called deterrence. Yes, while France remains within the EU, the EU can defend itself. I don't think Brexit makes any difference to the common military interests of Britain and the EU. Just what difference do you think Brexit makes to the balance of military power, Dragon?
I trust the Germans more than Trump or May.
You are aware that a Russian invasion of western Europe is a wet dream dreamt up by the NATO fantasists? right?
Ukraine is in western Europe. Two parts of it were annexed by the Russians last year.
its clearly in eastern europe though I agree with your previous post
Depends where your mental iron curtain currently lies, junkyard. Where do you put East Germany and Poland? Eastern and Western Europe to me are cold war notions.
Depends where your mental iron curtain currently lies, junkyard
I think its just geography and i am not giving any thought to cold war terminology.
Germany and poland are central for me- which probably does not even exits as a region
teamhurtmore - Member
Not wot?
Agreement. That's twice we've agreed in the last 24 hours.
I feel dirty somehow.
post Brexit British tanks will still train in Germany and German tanks will practice live firing on the Welsh Coast (pedants please correct...I assume the range is still open) just as they both did before the EU...
Ukraine is neither one thing or the other, that is partly why we are where we are today. The population is split almost down the middle and we haven't helped ourselves by encouraging/celebrating the overthrow of a democratically elected government, we don't happen to like. A lesson we still have not learned, illustrated by the fact it took so long to denounce the Turkish coup.