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I'm struggling to decide which is more funny, Hannan's initial tweet, his follow up https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/941995264637833216 or THM completely missing the point of how Hannan is completely missing the point.
It's so simple.
1. We have an open border between the UK and RoI, just like Hannan says. At a stroke, the Irish problem is solved.
2. We impose WTO tariffs on goods coming to the UK which immediately raises £Billions so the NHS can get its £350M/wk, just like Jamba said.
Honestly, I don't know what the problem is.
You “should” be wishing and supporting a deal that specifically addressed OUR needs. Radical thought I know
It's just a shame that OUR NEEDS were / are best supported by being part of the EU. Norway style it is then. Great idea THM.
Oh my lord, that's.. I'm not sure what that is, he's either a complete idiot or completely evil.
"Norway style"?? Our needs are best served by just staying in.
You “should” be wishing and supporting a deal that specifically addressed OUR needs.
Which are?
We impose WTO tariffs on goods coming to the UK which immediately raises £Billions so the NHS can get its £350M/wk, just like Jamba said.
I thought that money was coming just by not paying into the EU, not by raising additional taxes through tariffs.
Only according to.a minority Leku. I know this inconvenient fact keeps getting in the way.
Norway’s model is incomplete too. I’m very glad that our negotiators are ignoring the proposals on here. Good on them.
I thought that money was coming just by not paying into the EU, not by raising additional taxes through tariffs.
Well, for starters, we don't give £350M/wk to the EU do we, so to keep the promise, we need to do something on top of that.
A few weeks ago Jamba was proposing using WTO levies to cover the bill, but I can't be bothered to find the quote.
But back to Hannan's proposal of a Swiss-style Brexit, presumably we'd be expected to contribute to the EU budget, in exactly the same way that Switzerland does today?
Only according to.a minority Leku. I know this inconvenient fact keeps getting in the way.
What fact is that?
Our needs are best served by remaining or leaving the EU (lets leave aside which one it is).
That doesnt change according to whether it is the minority or majority.
That is leaving aside the fact we dont actually know it is a minority now.
Since undemocratic types, such as yourself, are opposed to bothering to ask the people again.
presumably we'd be expected to contribute to the EU budget, in exactly the same way that Switzerland does today?
Of course not. We also wouldnt have to agree to laws passed by the EU either. Johnny foreigner will dance to our tune.
Remember 350 million extra and increased sovereignty. Which is good news because the professional politician Farage is apparently whining he is broke.
IGM. Did you alter ego appear yesterday? Unlike you
I was bored and took a dislike to someone quoting stats they’d found without trying to understand them.
That individual isn’t the only one of course.
Well, for starters, we don't give £350M/wk to the EU do we,
But, but, but... The bus?!!
I’m very glad that our negotiators are ignoring the proposals on here.
Literacy levels at an all time low today?
THM - tell me what sort of exit you'd like to see and I'll tell you that a majority didn't vote for that either.
IGM - now that’s below the belt. Are you suggesting that mefty is joking the remoamers?
our negotiators are ignoring the proposals on here
ROFL. "our negotiators" aren't yet in any position to start negotiating anything because the cabinet hasn't had any discussions beyond cake and eating it fantasies.
Not at all. I think he believes something that may or may not actually be true but makes a good story.
Meanwhile at the express, they still don't know the difference between 'consider having a debate' and actually 'having' a debate 😛
Have you had the news turned off for the last few weeks Captain ?
I appreciate that we have now arrived at a position many argued was impossible to achieve, so perhaps it's still the shock?
THM - to be fair I think folk argued we couldn’t solve the Irish border, and I don’t think anyone thinks we have.
The Irish border is still very much the elephant in the room.
Speaking of elephants in rooms *nobody mention Gibraltar! *
Leaving the EU is like trying to turn a sausage back into a pig.
I appreciate that we have now arrived at a position many argued was impossible to achieve, so perhaps it's still the shock?
Nope
NI plaster and a ****g huge bung.
Not dissing negiotors but we Should have got here sooner and probably retired DD earlier.
Not at alL, but I accept that the tag team have been quiet of late so we have missed the wilder stuff.
But on your point, this was presented as an impassable stumbling block. Are we suggesting that the Irish have now been sold out by both sides?
No. Just kicked down the road for now
Of course stay in the CU and SM and the problem goes away so you may be right that people want to see if we’re doing that. 😉
certainly agree with the should have got here sooner bit. 100%
certainly agree with the should have got here sooner bit. 100%
Any diligent government would have preempted this.
Our government went in blind.
[quote=igm ]THM - to be fair I think folk argued we couldn’t solve the Irish border, and I don’t think anyone thinks we have.
On the contrary, there's a really simple way to solve the Irish border issue, and it seems the grown ups have recognised that. I'm just surprised Mogg and his mates aren't complaining more about us staying in the SM and the CU in the long term.
"In"?!?! 😯
Maintaining "access to".....
Naah. In.
Access is so 12 months ago.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]Maintaining "access to".....
Doesn't solve the Irish border problem
[ Pops in… sees the same THM gameplay… closes thread ]
Doesn't solve the Irish border problem
Says you.
I think says nearly everyone.
Yup we give the £363m (and rising) a week, we get back our rebate a year later. Some of that £363m comes back to is via other project spending (about £200m net)
Now we have all the other commitments which Remain didn’t tell is about ... various loan commitments (loans or gifts ?) and the pension deficit
As I posted before Ireland has been setup by the EU and then ignored by them as “nothing is agreed” including the “what happens if no trade deal is done” provision, shocking really. If Ireland veto the final deal they get WTO and a whole world of trouble - why should the UK make their life easy if they block a negotiated deal with a mechanism for no hard border ?
Has anyone else done an idiot troll scale / ranking for the posters on here?
The Moderators. Have a look at ban history in particular those who had lengthy bans. The Mods are even kind enough to highlght them with special tags.
Come on Jamby, time to get some facts out....
Name the countries with a successful WTO trading platform.
In terms of obligations and costings it was all clear, showing that despite all the facts being available leave still didn't manage to come up with the right figure tells you a lot.
The first simple point is that the rebate is applied like a discount. It's taken off before any payment is made.
You and your views are a clear example of why Brexit will never work and will never bring people together, you have such a wide range of views which contradict logic or other leavers ideas that nobody will be happy with the outcome.
Latest traitor/enemy of the people news:
http://www.****/news/article-5186797/Britons-Remain-Leave-10-points.html
apols for DM link, obvs.
Traitorous DM.
Or is that traitorous majority of the British people?
You and your views are a clear example of why Brexit will never work and will never bring people together,
Jamba has already stated his intention to eff off post Brexit to live in Portugal or wherever, so he doesn't give a flying duck whether it brings people together or not.
Now we have all the other commitments which Remain didn’t tell is about ...
Always someone elses fault init.....
One* wonders what Leave would gain from non disclosure and what else they failed to mention.
* Most dont as they arent clinging to some biggoted myopic world view.
Why would the mail online print that poll?
Normally when there’s good news for us reasonable,rational forward looking people they run a story about a miracle cure or a royal.
Is this some sort of editorial change? Would they rather a Tory government in the eu rather than a labour one out?
Why would the mail online print that poll?
Dacre's day off, innit? Mail on Sunday has some dirty remainers on its staff, so once a week it gets to confuse its readership. Bit bizarre.
Oh goody the easy trade deal should be fun
Britain will not be offered preferential, bespoke treatment if this means the EU having to reinvent its rulebook to accommodate us and if, according to World Trade Organisation rules, anything the EU offers Britain has to be offered to everyone else with whom it already has agreements.
According to [s]Mr [/s] Lord Mandelson.
Dunno how straight he’s tellin it but having to offer it to everyone else sounds fun.
I think we’re now going to see why these trade deals er are such ball aches over the next year.
"according to World Trade Organisation rules, anything the EU offers Britain has to be offered to everyone else with whom it already has agreements"
I was wondering what the brexiters position on this was, given the only nations currently trading on WTO rules I know of are Somalia and North Korea, its hard to find an encouraging real world exemplar for our hard Brexit destiny.
I'm just surprised Mogg and his mates aren't complaining more about us staying in the SM and the CU in the long term.
Perhaps under the bluster they’ve twigged that time is not on our side and they could all be sat on their asses after the great Brexit day when everyone’s head scratching about what happens next as we’ve no deal and the finger of fudge is pointing at them.
They want to rock the boat but not sink it.
Neither are WTO members crankboy.
Pretty sure the conclusion was that no country trades solely under WTO rules and it's just some idiotic soundbite trotted out by idiots.
Loving the reader's comments on that Daily Mail article about the survey. Many variations of [i]"Nice try DM but this is fake news!! They never asked me therefore this poll is invalid"[/i]
🙄
Looking forward to the furious briefing and counter-briefing after the cabinet discussions on Tuesday when they finally start to confront their mutually incompatible and mostly impossible aims.
Wow. The Mail really loves a 'Busty Display". But then it is full of tits.
Looking forward to the furious briefing and counter-briefing after the cabinet discussions on Tuesday when they finally start to confront their mutually incompatible and mostly impossible aims.
reunification of the Tory party 🙂
Mind boggling that this wasn’t all decided before signing the 50.
[quote=jambalaya ]Yup we give the £363m (and rising) a week, we get back our rebate a year later.
Oh look, jamba's attempting to enhance his credibility by using the pre rebate figure again. 😆 Busted flush on that, mate.
Now we have all the other commitments which Remain didn’t tell is about ... various loan commitments (loans or gifts ?) and the pension deficit
The commitments which were covered by the payment we already made? Why didn't Leave tell us about having to pay them after we left?
Jamba - MemberIf Ireland veto the final deal they get WTO and a whole world of trouble - why should the UK make their life easy if they block a negotiated deal with a mechanism for no hard border ?
The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve
these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible,
the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique
circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United
Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the
Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-
island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.
To me that reads as saying that if Ireland veto whatever deal gets done, the UK basically stays as a "vassal" of the EU, until such time as we can invent some kind of magical invisible border.
Yes of course that’s exactly what it means which is why the brexiteers were so quick to say they didn’t really mean it, they had their fingers crossed behind their backs when the signed it etc...
and why bojo is writing articles saying we must not become a vassal state of the EU.
which to me is confirmation that the UK is becoming a vassal state of the EU.
@mike US, China, Canada Australia, South Korea, Japan .. we will have more free trade deals than any of those within 12-24 months of being able to sign them. The EU is about protectionism pure and simple in terms of trade. Remember it was the UK who was championing free trade with US, Canada, Japan, Australia etc - we have a huge advantage and a massive headstart. 60 deals to “copy paste” as soon as we can sign them.
@DrJ what nonsesne, of course you can have a view and care about social cohesion without living somewhere 100% of the time. I will always have a home in the UK just may not be tax resident depending on who is in charge. It will be about counting days in one place versus another.
I do hope you are not too inconvenienced by having to move between 2 homes.
If my shop goes tits up spare a thought for me.
may not be tax resident depending on who is in charge
Folk who want to do that sort of thing to tax dodge should be forced to give up their citizenship.
Don’t go there Jamba it really is a shabby thing to do.
+1 igm
Is anyone surprised?
we will have more free trade deals than any of those within 12-24 months of being able to sign them.
Ok but will they be better or worse than the ones we have through the EU?
The EU is about protectionism pure and simple
Isn't that an argument for remaining in it? Better to be the beneficiary of protectionism no?
only by the honesty 😉
I dont think he has even been even remotely less than 100 %honest about his desire when he retires to be very clear Its just a joke
Oldnpastit - is that wording in the deal?
and why bojo is writing articles saying we must not become a vassal state of the EU.
perhaps he's making a case for being a vassal of the Chinese or US.
. I will always have a home in the UK just may not be tax resident depending on who is in charge.
People with such a flexible attitude to paying their way shouldn't be surprised when their views on the future direction of that country don't carry much weight with other people who are in it for better or worse.
I won’t claim to be an expert on US tax and citizenship, but isn’t one of their citizenship requirements that you pay tax to the minimum you would do if you were US resident. Any required top up being paid to the US.
Sounds reasonable. People not paying their dues according to their ability shouldn’t enjoy the benefits of UK citizenship.
I do hope you are not too inconvenienced by having to move between 2 homes.
If my shop goes tits up spare a thought for me
It really is just the worst, eh?
Someone who has clearly benefitted from and done very well because of the EU. You can absolutely guarantee his wee inner monologue constantly reminds him he could be even richer if it wasn't for those meddling bureaucrats.
The living breathing epitome of Stewart lee's "the money is mine" routine
No, USA tax system is nuts. The rest of the world, you are resident for tax purposes in one place only, typically the place you spend most of your time. The USA approach is a nightmare and particularly unfair for for accidental citizens who have no link to the country other than that their mother happened to be there when they were born.
And so it begins:
mefty - MemberOldnpastit - is that wording in the deal?
Direct quote.
How much sway does the TUC hold over the Labour Party. They are quite clear on remaining in the single market ,should that not be echoed by Mr Jezza?
Despite the current noise, the next big milestone is the vote on whether a specific leaving date can be written in.
Given the tory rebellion last week, a few more now might feel empowerment to vote with sense rather than with the whip.
That's assuming Labour MPs will vote rather than abstain.
Thecaptain - the US system may well be nuts, but it does allow those ‘accidental’ citizens to renounce their citizenship hand in their passports and stop paying US taxes.
If a 40 or 45% (or even 46%) tax payer suddenly decides to live somewhere to avoid paying UK tax (particularly if they don’t actually live there) they should be given the choice - pay UK tax levels (local as normal plus anything above that to HMRC) or hand in your UK passports. Non-doms are leaches, tax haven inhabitants not much better.
People with such a flexible attitude to paying their way shouldn't be surprised when their views on the future direction of that country don't carry much weight with other people who are in it for better or worse.
I have been fortunate enough to have paid a quite significant amount of tax thank you very much over 35 years in well very paid jobs (“the 1%”), whilst at the same time costing the state zero inc educating my kids at my own cost from net of tax earning.
It is quite clear to me now that if I had my time again I would not have returned from the US in 1991 and/or I would focus on a low tax jurisdiction. Also it quite clear that PAYE is a mugs game, my ex-BIL saw that and as smart enough to focus on “starting a business” ie not taking a PAYE job. Sold out and paid 15% - smart.
you never used a road or had your bin emptied then or benefited from the police or the NHS ?whilst at the same time costing the state zero
the average 1% income was $1.26 million - no wonder you feel so impoverished and like life has been unkind to you
Yep. Objects to others enjoying FoM, but wants to enjoy it himself. Objects quite vociferously to Apple enjoying a low tax regime, but wants to enjoy it himself.
You couldn’t make it up.
Jamba, you have, if you’ve been a 1%er for 35 years (really - since you were what 19?), been very fortunate, pay your tax and count it as a badge of honour. You won, others lost, pay your dues not some minor percentage of your dues.
Also it quite clear that PAYE is a mugs game
I thought you were anti tax avoidance?
[img] 
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costing the state zero
Even by your standards, that's 100% gold plated bollocks
No, USA tax system is nuts. The rest of the world, you are resident for tax purposes in one place only, typically the place you spend most of your time.
There are plenty of countries that require you to submit a tax return in your home country (or if you own property) no matter where you reside. We have the massive luxury of having tax treaties with most if the civilised world which stops people from the uk suffering from double taxation. If you work for example in Angola (which a few people on here will pass through) you should in theory pay full local taxes and home as there is no agreement. Australia have some odd rules too.
Mind you no one enforces them quite like the US.
Not paying the appropriate tax is just a dick move. No one wants to but you can't take the benefits and shirk the responsibility...