[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Nope. Nice yet Brexit has nothing to do with ECHR unless you need to make things up to (mis)prove a point

my parents cames to the UK just before I was born but my brother was born in Zambia.

💡

Still after last week, must be tough being a remoaner so struggling with the truth is understandable

If you missed the point of the cartoon it was that those in finance and banking don't have to worry about little things like freedom of movement or visa's as they can just buy them.

Mike as you know ECHR has nothing to do with Brexit unless you are a remoaner deliberately distorting the truth.

Bullshiting for England! Keep going.

Well that’s a lie too. Racist and inaccurate. Very fitting

I wouldn't hold your breath Mike. Classic THM tactics. throw out general accusations then refuse to provide any details or back it up

For most of the colonial period, Zambia was governed by an administration appointed from London with the advice of the British South Africa Company. On 24 October 1964, Zambia became independent of the United Kingdom

my parents cames to the UK just before I was born but my brother was born in Zambia. He was a banker for part of his life but did not wear stereotypical clothing nor does he have large lips as portrayed - and to racist apologists on previous pages. They are easy to read unless you are an apologist too. Your choice.

WTF are you dribbling on about?

Racism AA - it’s quite an important issue for some of us. Are you an apologist too?

Some genius trolling, you have to admit. Ninfan throws this thread yards off topic with a typical hate stirring spin on some horrible crimes carried out by UK citizens, and then THM takes us miles off topic by throwing as many cries of "racist" into the mix as possible. Time wasters.

What are we apologising for again? (as somebody who has been called professionally offended before) If it's just the cartoon then you obviously missed the actual meaning that nice english bankers get away with what they like.

Racism AA - it’s quite an important issue for some of us. Are you an apologist too?

I dont know, you're the clever one why dont you tell me. I as usual have my work cut out understanding your posts.

Do you have to be white to be English? Why English not British? Why was the banker not black? Why the stereotype clothes and the exaggerated facial features?

Why would someone want to post such a cartoon?

I used "English", not "British" in my comment deliberately, due to your rants about Scottish people.

What cartoon?

And that the English toff banker will have to move to Germany to find work post Brexit, but thanks to Brexit will have the same status as refugees fleeing conflict in Africa - but without the refugee staus so they'll just be (hated by the British gutter press) economic migrants. The irony being that a Brexit born of hate for economic migrants has turned the banker into an economic migrant.

Anagallis-A, I posted a few cartoons to illustrate how the French and British cartoonists are playing with Britain. One of the cartoons portrayed a sterotypical British toff banker, a steotypical German civil servant and two sterotypical refugees in a German asylum seekers reception office.

THM claims the cartoon is somehow racist. In that the only person show in a negative light is the British banker I fail to see it as racist unless the fact the banker is white is the reason the cartoon is funny. I found it funny because of the irony of a British banker becoming an economic migrant due to Brexit. And the sterotypical portrayal of the British banker.

For racist abuse (with the threat of physical violence) of someone that was excused on the basis of lies. But we have seen victim blaming before in the case of harassment. So no change there. True colours

Maybe you could try taking a breath and put it down in some easy to understand bullet points for me?

I see people have tried to raise the latest trade deal several times… only for troll noise to drown them out… so Japan… when will we get a trade deal, how much longer after the EU/Japan deal, in what way and how can we get better terms, and how will Brexit inform future EU/Japan relations (if the successful model of Japanese investment in the UK for SM/CU sales, is seriously damaged)?

Edukator - Reformed Troll
And that the English toff banker will have to move to Germany to find work post Brexit, but thanks to Brexit will have the same status as refugees fleeing conflict in Africa - but without the refugee staus so they'll just be (hated by the British gutter press) economic migrants. The irony being that a Brexit born of hate for economic migrants has turned the banker into an economic migrant.

Nope.

I think THM is still banging on about the drunk ****s that his son had the displeasure of sharing a train with.

Can someone just delete all the [b]"nope"[/b] posts?

Is a "banker" moving to another country for work reasons an "ecomonic migrant"…?
Is Brexit causing the movement of people working in financial services to move from the UK to other countries…?
Was the Brexit vote in any way linked to people wanting to reduce the number of people moving to the UK for work…?

I think THM is still banging on about the drunk ****s that his son had the displeasure of sharing a train with.

Oh right. How does this link to cartoons?

Happily when people stop posting inaccurate statements. It’s easy - well should be. But it’s been a bad week if you are into the truth

AA both racism and apologising for racism have been desolated in different occasions. Along with victim blaming. True colours

kelvin - Member

I see people have tried to raise the latest trade deal several times… only for troll noise to drown them out… so Japan… when will we get a trade deal, how much longer after the EU/Japan deal, in what way and how can we get better terms, and how will Brexit inform future EU/Japan relations (if the successful model of Japanese investment in the UK for SM/CU sales, is seriously damaged)?

The EU side have categorically ruled out any deal for the UK that is better than the trade deals the EU has with any other non EU nations

I don't think that's the case at all TJ. If it is, could you post a link please? Ta.

Back in the summer we received a commitment from Japan that they would look to replicate and EU trade deal with one with the UK

When? Will we get better terms? Is there a risk of getting worse terms?

All we know for now is what the Japanese have committed to. The rest is unknown IIRC

Skim reading suggests that, at least initially, we won't get worse terms. That's ace! A commitment on timescales would be the icing on the cake, but too many unknowns on our side for that, I suppose.

This is why we needed to move on from the start but the EU didn’t want that. Watch the French do the same over next quarter

You with the sad eyes
Don't be discouraged, oh I realize
It's hard to take courage
In a world full of people
You can lose sight of it all
The darkness inside you
Can make you feel so small
Show me a smile then
Don't be unhappy
Can't remember when
I last saw you laughing
This world makes you crazy
And you've taken all you can bear
Just call me up
'Cause I will always be there
And I see your true colors
Shining through
I see your true colors
And that's why I love you
So don't be afraid to let them show
Your true colors
True colors are beautiful
I see your true colors
Shining through (true colors)
I see your true colors
And that's why I love you
So don't be afraid to let them show
Your true colors
True colors are beautiful (they're beautiful)
Like a rainbow
Oh oh…

kelvin - Member
I don't think that's the case at all TJ. If it is, could you post a link

It's on the front page of the observer today, although it's eu sources rather than a named party. Says third countries have already mentioned U.K. Getting preferred terms with Eu would be a problem

[i]kelvin - Member

Can someone just delete all the "nope" posts?

Is a "banker" moving to another country for work reasons an "ecomonic migrant"…?
Is Brexit causing the movement of people working in financial services to move from the UK to other countries…?
Was the Brexit vote in any way linked to people wanting to reduce the number of people moving to the UK for work…? [/i]

Yep.

It's on the front page of the observer today, although it's eu sources rather than a named party. Says third countries have already mention

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/09/global-powers-lobby-to-stop-special-brexit-deal-for-uk

All pretty meaningless (and not news) unless we know which third countries it refers to.

I want to see a Venn diagram of…

A) countries threatening to block our proposals for UK outside the EU at WTO
B) countries with, or negotiating, EU trade deals seeking to stop us getting a more preferential FTA with the EU
C) countries we are hoping to get a better, and/or earlier, trade deal with outside the EU, rather than as members

If we could get that drawn up, I think it would blow the mind of, for example, Liam Fox.

I think THM is still banging on about the drunk ****s that his son had the displeasure of sharing a train with.

I think we need to add [i]allegedly[/i]. Personally I'm calling "fake news". His language used is pretty suspect, he moves tenses, I think he made it up because it suits his trolling. Gives him something to be professionally offended about.

I see now he's taking a leaf out of chewks book 😯 😯

Maybe he forgets which sock puppet he's supposed to be today 😆

Watch the French do the same over next quarter

Do what exactly over the next quarter? Without details I'll take that as a slur.

Kelvinthats the story ( plus a couple of others) I was basing it on.

Note the Canada deal does not include financial services and I also read that "EU officials" are ruling out anything better than that

Also

PETER MANDELSON

Former EU trade commissioner

Theresa May has now accepted the principle of regulatory alignment with the EU and this is a step towards staying in the single market. The mooted alternative of a Canada-style trade agreement [b]does not work for Britain as this would only eliminate tariffs on goods whereas we need regulatory alignment to permit free trade in services.[/b] .

But early to have been in the spesh metal. Good parents are naturally concerned when their children are at risk. They fact that you seek to be an apologist is of no surprise.

Obstruct progress on trade talks Ed. All part of the plan. If that’s a slur blame your leaders. It’s their choice

Obstruct progress on trade talks Ed. All part of the plan.

Is this also "the plan" of UK government ministers, and the MPs "supporting" them?

Am I the only person who has this song stuck in his head after the NI border shambles?

There's nothin' for us in Belfast
The Pound's old and that's a pity
OK, there's the Trident in Bangor
And then you walk back to the city
We ain't got nothin' but they don't really care
They don't even know you know
They just want money
And we can take it or leave it
What we need is
(Chorus:)
An Alternative Ulster
Grab it and change it it's yours
Get an Alternative Ulster
Ignore the bores and their laws
Get an Alternative Ulster
Be an anti-security force
Alter your native Ulster
Alter your native land

Take a look where you're livin'
You got the Army on the street
And the RUC dog of repression
Is barking at your feet
Is this the kind of place you wanna live?
Is this where you wanna be?
Is this the only life we're gonna have?
What we need is

(Chorus)

They say they're a part of you
And that's not true you know
They say they've got control of you
And that's a lie you know
They say you will never be
Free free free

Get an Alternative Ulster, Alternative Ulster, Alternative Ulster

But early to have been in the spesh metal.

Speak for yourself you seem have got your fords wuddled.

Surprised to see [i]you[/i] stoop to racist slurs and stereotypes 😯

No they have been trying to move on to the core issues for ages.

Hard to justify what you are saying otherwise

Glad the idea that Canada does not work for us is finally being understood. Hence why we have always been going for a unique solution. Despite remoaners denying this.

There won’t be much to moan about soon. Except that May may just pull it off. How bitter will that cup be to swallow 😉

Obstruct progress on trade talks Ed. All part of the plan. If that’s a slur blame your leaders. It’s their choice

All in your xenophobic little head, THM. Unlees you can link this plan to obstruct trade talks. Macron has been absolutley clear, Brexit conditions first, then trade talks. Check out his statemets made at his meeting with TM back in May.

teamhurtmore - Member
All we know for now is what the Japanese have committed to.

Nope.

A commitment [b][u]to look to[/b][/u] is not a commitment.

I could commit to look to make a million on shares next year and give you half of it, I doubt you'd count on getting it though

No they have been trying to move on to the core issues for ages.

Well kelvin it’s interstaing to see how the mention that UK was preparing for a HB option resulted in an acceleration of progress towards the first step that the 99% wrongers argued would never happen

And the one lesson of last week?The EU fears a hard brexit too. Be why wouldn’t they? Ditto the Irish. Hence the fudge that has now been accepted. No surprise as this has been predicted by a few while denied by the many for some time on this thread.

Various options ranging from the truth to lies are available here. Your choice to decide which to follow...

Try explaining that again … you think that the movements of the last few weeks were due to EU fears of a "hard Brexit"? Nothing to do with the EU giving the UK a deadline and telling us to stop delaying and get on with it?

I thought the compromises were that the UK agreed to full regulatory alignment for NI, ecj jurisdiction for EU citizens and a 40bn Brexit bill, not sure what the EU sacrificed for that?

They gave May an extension on the deadline after her misshandling of the DUP blew up in her face

Other than that it was just May erasing her red lines?

Unless Thm you know of any EU concessions?

its not hard to pinpoint the time when the EU positioned softened. It could have been a coincidence as they might simply have realised that it was time to stop playing silly buggers after all.

Either way. Good that progress has been made and that HB is now much less likely. Good trump card to have kept back though ;-).

We are learning well on the job !!

Yes kimbers on all three. But have yet to see whether they will respect the rights of UK citizens that so many remoaners were willing to give up so freely. Have you seen the details?

The EU might not make us pay for the relocation of the eba and ema though 🙂

No they have been trying to move on to the core issues for ages.

utter nonsense. they may have been trying but it was never going to happen until the 3 initial issues were settled and given Davies and Gove statements the last couple of days " we can change the deal if we want" " NO trade deal no money" its far from a foregone conclusion that this will be accepted by the 27member states. If I were them I wouldn't because of the tories clear splits and clear lack of committment to what they have agreed

teamhurtmore - Member But have yet to see whether they will respect the rights of UK citizens that so many remoaners were willing to give up so freely. Have you seen the details?

From the BBC reports "EU citizens living in the UK and vice versa will have their rights to live, work and study protected. The agreement includes reunification rights for relatives who do not live in the UK to join them in their host country in the future" I think the fundamental betrayal of uk residents in the eu comes from the Brexit side rather than trying to shift it onto remain

UK citizens that so many remoaners were willing to give up so freely

completely

All the remainers comments I have seen were outraged that May was playing politics with peoples lives when the EU offered a very si9mply way of protecting rights and made it clear it was reciprocal whatever the dal was. so thanks to May and co UK citizens in the EU are going to lose some of their rights 'cos she couldn't stand to let EU citizens in the UK have full rights

utter nonsense. they may have been trying but it was never going to happen until the 3 initial issues were settled

Interesting that you believe that the three initial issues are settled.

34 posts by THM in the last 16 hours. I think you need a hobby. I’ve heard mountain biking is fun...

Did that this morning but cut short by crap conditions. Dogs walked. Tree bought and decorated. Mersey derby watched. Swim and gym to come.

Not a bad day despite the weather. How was your ride?

live footage of negotiations

[img] [/img]

Don't spoil the fun Jambo. I was enjoying his weird accusations of racism that he wouldn't explain and that never happened whilst also he ignored his own documented racism and tried to pretend it never happened

Never happened like a deal with the EU. “Never knowingly truthful”. How apt

I was enjoying his weird accusations of racism

They are not weird, I would have thought the portrayal of black africans in a stereotypical way is something many would find offensive. Were someone to conjure up similar portraits with words I am sure they would be condemned.

Mefty - I seriously did not see that and others asked THM which posts but he wouldn't say. If there was a racist cartoon I missed it. I don't look at every post / page

Negative stereotyping is racism. Picture or words.

Still amuses me tho that someone who has been banned for being racist makes these accusations

There are drawings of black people. Apparently that's racist because they're black

Just popped my head around the door to see what was going on in here......

Pru..........it's kicking off.......

[img] [/img]

I would have thought the portrayal of black africans in a stereotypical way is something many would find offensive

What I saw was an image of how a "banker" saw himself - first in the queue as of right ahead of primitive tribesfolk (in his perception). Of course maybe the cartoonist had other ideas; we can't be sure just from a drawing.

Whatever, the distraction served hurty's purpose well enough.

indeed Dr, it exposed true colours.

[img] [/img]

Is this the one? Stereotyping yes. Thats not racism Is it negative or pejorative? Thats what makes it racism - not the stereotype but the negative or pejorative connotations.

The thick lips on the two black folk? Dubious but not inherently racist IMO

Can you tell me where the negative or pejorative aspect is?

To give a clear example. A Cartoon of a scot in a kilt is stereotyping but not negative. to have him hiding his money would be negative styerotyping.

so please help me here with the thinking. Why is this a negative stereotype in your opinion 'cos I am far from convinced? but open to listening

No one?
I see 4 lazy sterotypes
A fat lazy german bureaucrat, a snooty british banker and two thick lipped casually dressed confused black guys. The most negative is probably the german. Cartoons are caricatures.

Its a crap cartoon with lazy stereotyping but that does not make it racist. there has to be a negative or pejorative aspect to make it so

true colours

Racist.

To give a clear example. A Cartoon of a scot in a kilt is stereotyping but not negative. to have him hiding his money would be negative styerotyping.

Slightly ot, but I'm sure being a Scot is a nationality, just like being English is.

Disliking/abusing someone for their Nationality isn't racism, it's xenophobia. Doesn't make it right/any better though.

If you put the cartoon in the context of Germany being willing to accept refugees from Africa and the Middle East in a seven figure number, displaced very offten by the actions of the warmongering Blair government, whilst Britain has resolutely refused refugees and is intent on making life as difficult as possible for EU citizens in the UK - it's not as crap. It's aimed at the German public, they are better placed to see all the issues, both superficial and deeper. That's the art of the cartoon, a superficial and funny depiction of a situation that when you think about it takes your thoughts much further.

I posted a few cartoons in an effort to get people on here thinking about how people on the other side of the Channels see things. They get a completely different view, alternative propaganda to that in the British press. It's modeling the minds of Europeans in the same way as UK media sources set out to influence public opinion. Just as there are expectations for the Brexit outcome in the UK, Europeans have expectations, but very different expectations, much more realistic and much more easily obtained.

Thats what makes it racism - not the stereotype but the negative or pejorative connotations.

So perhaps you’ll explain how ‘Scotchland’ is negative or pejorative, in order to constitute “racist language” as you previously claimed then TJ

Yes and the choice was very revealing Ed. Also interesting to see yet another untrue statement about UK and EU citizens. You are on a roll at the moment.

Ninfan, when Jambas made a critical comment about the Scottish rugby team, he was branded a racist. Totally unfounded but it stood.

not bothering to pronounce a persons country correctly repeatedly would seem negative to me but obviously not too racists