[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

jambalaya - Member - Quote
All the Leavers are happy to exchange a short term bump in the road economically to get the benefits of a more globally focused economy. We will be much better off out imo.

I've heard religious fanatics quote less moronic dogma.

Go and ask, say, the population of Stoke (Brexit capital) how they feel about interest rates and inflation going up while their working conditions and pay go in the other direction.

Interest rates are down
Minimum wage is rising and pressure on terms and conditions from unlimited immigration will ease materially.
Inflation was below BoE target now rising towards that

@b r I said I thoight the really significant benefits would not flow through for 7-10 years

It's my strong view that the financial and economic catastrophe Europe will experience in the next 2-3 years will demonstrate to all what a good decision leaving the EU was

how about state intervention as promoted today , surely that goes agaisnt your principles ?

It's my strong view that the financial and economic catastrophe Europe will experience in the next 2-3 years will demonstrate to all what a good decision leaving the EU was

Will I get my right to free movement back?

molgrips - Member
Will I get my right to free movement back?

Yes, use your passport like anyone else from Non-EU.

But no work permit.

or free medical cover

or the right to study visa free

.....

pressure on terms and conditions from unlimited immigration will ease materially

Not heard that point before Jamba. Following the conversation I assume you're talking about T&Cs relating to working conditions? How does migration put pressure on them?

Will I get my right to free movement back?

Definitely not. You will not have the automatic right to live and work in any EU country and receive tye same rights as any other citizen (note in Germany EU citizens will not be able to claim benefots fir 5 years so some EU citizens are more equal than others)

Graham an effectively unlimited supply of labour will always depress wages and working conditions.

All these freedom of movement rights come at a very high cost to the UK in terms of depressed wages, pressure on public services, pressure on housing etc etc.

High Court decision expected tomorrow. If Govt loses new bill announced / introduced immediately May returns from the US maybe even before ?

Glee at taking away people's rights to move; joy at state control; lies about cause and effect in the workplace… Stalinism isn't dead it seems.

Actually, the Trump adoration in another thread suddenly makes more sense.

Jamba - Eu immigrants in the UK pay more in taxes and take less in benefits than the average UK citizen. therefore they create an increase in money the government has to spend so there is more money for healthcare and housing. Its Tory government policy not to spend this money on housing and healthcare - thats where the pressure comes from not from the numbers of immigrants.

Classic xenophobic scapegoating and completely wrong.

Orwell was right apart from he saw the left descending into totalitarianism - instead its the right. Just about everything else in 1984 is being done by this foul xenophobic tory government

tjagain - Member
Orwell was right apart from he saw the left descending into totalitarianism - instead its the right. Just about everything else in 1984 is being done by this foul xenophobic tory government

Who knows Scotland might become an independent country by that time when the last monarchy becomes the first president of smaller UK. You will be living happily at the North of England without a care in the world.

Chewkw, you're being foolish and failing to think it through again.
Deliberately?

Chewkw doesn't care, he can just go back to his home country.

A short term bump in the road? That must be the most trivialising understatement I've ever heard. Royally ****ed for the foreseeable, more like.

Chewkw doesn't care, he can just go back to his home country.

Chewkw doesn't care, he just enjoys stirring up the rest of us and we keep biting. Hook, line, sinker, rod, reel and copy of Angling Times.

pressure on terms and conditions from unlimited immigration will ease materially

You will not have the automatic right to live and work in any EU country

And this is a good thing is it?

I don't read this thread religiously, just dip in every couple of days to see what's going on.

I can't help wondering if Jamba is all just foreplay before unveiling the biggest edinburgh defence in the history of time 😉

Graham an effectively unlimited supply of labour will always depress wages and working conditions.

Ah ok, thank you for the clarification.

But if an "unlimited supply of labour" was impacting the market so badly wouldn't we be seeing a surplus of workers, resulting in high unemployment?

[url= https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment ]Unemployment is currently at 4.8%[/url], an 11 year low.

Does it matter? Things go in circle so you will have your chance again in future if the present system does not work.

Previous cycles suggest it'll be 40-50 years.

So no, I probably won't get my chance again. And if I do then my kids will probably be complaining that I'm just a nostalgic out-of-touch old man voting for things to go back to the halcyon days of my youth, before the CyberWars and the Zombie Plagues. 😆

Miller/Dos Santos vs Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union: judgment upheld.

Majority of 8:3

Interesting findings on devolved parliaments: they will NOT need consultation or agreement.

But it means nothing if MPs are just going to roll over and do what they're told for votes, does it?

Looks like the fun and games starts now then.

I expect the first people we'll hear from is that **** Farage, and the Mail with their 'Enemies of the People' foaming at the mouth nonsense.

Then the SNP clearly stating their intention to go for a second independence referendum. They can't do anything else really now its been stated that devolved governments don't need to be consulted.

From the BBC rolling feed

Jeremy Corbyn reacts to supreme court -"Labour will not frustrate process of invoking Article 50"

Corbyn's done, and so is labour. He'll do anything to cling onto any kind of relevance. Arsehole.

There was an interesting piece of R4's Today program between the NFU and the US equivalent re agricultural products and any FTA. A race to the bottom indeed - the NFU tacitly acknowledging that UK will suck up US food quality regulations/standards provided UK agriculture can deregulate likewise.

[i]I expect the first people we'll hear from is that **** Farage, and the Mail with their 'Enemies of the People' foaming at the mouth nonsense.
[/I]

Nope, nothing there yet, probably still having a epileptic fit 🙂

http://www.****/home/index.html

[quote=b r ]I expect the first people we'll hear from is that **** Farage, and the Mail with their 'Enemies of the People' foaming at the mouth nonsense.

Nope, nothing there yet, probably still having a epileptic fit
> http://www.****/home/index.html
br />

It's there

http://www.****/news/article-4150822/Judges-ruling-PM-executive-powers-trigger-Brexit.html

Now comes the point where MPs feel they need to vote for something against the interests of their constituents.
Prepare to be let down.

It was expected so no surprises.
The Devolution is more Sc especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Jeremy Corbyn reacts to supreme court -"Labour will not frustrate process of invoking Article 50"

Jeremy Corbyn reacts to supreme court -"Labour will not frustrate process of invoking Article 50"

Absolutely useless. I have cut up my card and left the Party because of his complete lack of opposition at any point in the Brexit run up and post referendum shambles. Who'd have thought that the Lib Dems would be the only viable opposition party?

That Mail article is very good as a piece of Daily Mash type satire. My favourite line?

Most controversially, Jeremy Corbyn is demanding a 'meaningful' vote on the final deal

How are the comments on the DM article shaping up?

usual brexie death threats for Gina Miller and the jidges and 'will of the people' repeated over and over?

also ruled devolved governments dont get consulted, I imagine some scotts will be jumping up and down for another vote...

Well it's pretty controversial for corbyn to do anything other than put his foot in his mouth. But if A50 is irrevocable, it's not possible for there to be a meaningful vote.

[Off topic - love the 'Daily Mail / abhorrent publication'l block on STW.]

and for now the grown up's are back doing what they should have started 6 months ago

Chair Andrew Tyrie asks the witnesses their view on the forthcoming EU negotiations, for their industry.

Mike Hawes of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, says the automotive industry has "really benefited" from the free movement of people and goods.

He tells the committee the "key issue" is ensuring the UK remains a competitive place to make and sell cars.

He'll do anything to cling onto any kind of relevance. Arsehole.

It's not that. He believes he has to represent the views of the electorate. That's why he's not fighting the government.

As the papers have been saying - he's totally stitched up and there's nothing he can really do. Labour is in huge trouble because Brexit vote totally split its voter base. Half of Labour voters are progressives, who are remainers; the other half are working class and conservative. Viewing them all as some kind of cohesive 'left' is a massive mistake, one which led to people being surprised at how a left wing party could lose voters to a far right one.

Half? I agree the Labour vote is split on this, but where did you get 50:50 from?

It's not that. He believes he has to represent the views of the electorate. That's why he's not fighting the government.

[quote=kimbers ]How are the comments on the DM article shaping up?
usual brexie death threats for Gina Miller and the jidges and 'will of the people' repeated over and over?

Lizzie7, Leeds, about a minute ago
Time to take to the streets!

Madashel, Newport, United Kingdom, 2 minutes ago
Sack all these judges Mrs May and replace them with hand picked honest ones that will represent the people and democracy in this country. Tony Blair did it for his own ends you have the power, use it against all these traitors, foreign businesses and so called elitists just in it for money. No doubt these judges have been suitably rewarded for siding with anti democratic pro EU rich people.

sonia67, london, United Kingdom, 6 minutes ago
Who the hell is paying the wages of these judges? It's total madness!!!

etc

[quote=molgrips ]He'll do anything to cling onto any kind of relevance. Arsehole.
It's not that. He believes he has to represent the views of the electorate. That's why he's not fighting the government.
As the papers have been saying - he's totally stitched up and there's nothing he can really do. Labour is in huge trouble because Brexit vote totally split its voter base. Half of Labour voters are progressives, who are remainers; the other half are working class and conservative. Viewing them all as some kind of cohesive 'left' is a massive mistake, one which led to people being surprised at how a left wing party could lose voters to a far right one.

Agreed, but he could at least argue the case for the 48% and try to get the best deal for everyone. Instead, he's meekly kowtowing to the tories.

He's pathetically weak. He loves putting out a Facebook video or comment saying how he's showing solidarity with whatever issue is his flavour of the week, but his actual actions and results are severely lacking. He's done nothing and he'll continue to do nothing.

Bob - I'm worried that 7 year old Lizzie from Leeds is a) thinking about taking to the streets without a responsible adult and b) allowed on Mail comments on her own.