You mean the people won't get their savings back edit - in reply to slowoldman)
Oh I doubt the banks would be bothered about that point of detail. it's the interest income they want.
@cougar. So this guy Verhofstienr is basically saying, if we don't do our homework we get humiliated. I didn't do any while at school an I ain't doin any now. Reckon thats why there was an out vote.
Can't wait for the Free Yorkshire referendum.
Interesting, Jamba. But even more interesting is the ability of the citizens to pay off that debt. In Japan saving is so high they aren't far off IIRC. And France not only has a lower per capita debt than the UK but savings are higher so it's less of an issue, yet some on here point the finger at France saying there's a debt problem. In the UK there's a double problem, public and private debt.
It was late so perhaps didn't explain well. Two points, can country manage the debt and if not does a default make any global / regional impact. USA has a large and well diversified economy together with a sophisticated Treasury. Iceland is tiny (300k people) and has none of those and if it blew up it wouldn't really matter to anyone globally or even regionally (note F-wit UK local authorities had a lot of money with Icelandic Banks in 2007/8 which was idiotic, eg Guildford lost £5m)
If (when) those EU nations run into a refinancing problem it's going to create a very large issue. The fact they have been able to get into that state is a failing of the EU/eurozone.
Jamba - I thought that was what you meant - it just wasn't exactly what you said. Not sure I'm quite as optimistic about the US with the apprentice statesman in the top job, but it may be OK. Turning to the UK, debt is a real problem, particularly personal debt when that seems to be the only thing supporting the general economy (outside London at least).
In other news I see you are writing for the Guardian now - or someone very like you.
[i] Two points, can country manage the debt and if not does a default make any global / regional impact[/I]
Based on comparing us and the Germans, we've a serious problem then...
[i] (note F-wit UK local authorities had a lot of money with Icelandic Banks in 2007/8 which was idiotic, eg Guildford lost £5m)[/I]
Lets be clear, UK Treasury shouldn't have been let uneducated folk 'invest' this cash. Any decent corporate uses a central Treasury function to manage it's cash and so should've we.
And with TM announcing more money available today to industries.
Are we going to end up like Greece and Italy as we have to borrow to do all this investment in British industry?
i don't think we're going to have to worry about all this investment in british industry. it's nebulous at best, certainly WRT manufacturing. however low the pound goes, you're not going to compete with china on wages, or malaysia for that matter, at least not for another 10-15 years, when their economies mature.
@b r absolutely, people like me have been very concerned about our deficit, thats why we have been supporting painful budget cuts. Asuterity seems to be the buzz word, I prefer living within our means. When other people's money runs out you end up like Greece (real pain there yet to come sadly). Germany won't look so clever when it has to find €30bn extra pa for NATO and write-off most of the €100bn it's gifted to Greece etc etc.
Definitely agree with what you say about central control of the cash float or as an absolute minimum an approved panel of banks for local authorities to work with. That's what a bank does, central approved list and delegated authority to place funds depending on local terms / relationship reasons.
@Del China already losing out to other Asian players like Vietnam which can make things cheaper.
Finally, brilliant news India, Australia and America want improved access for their citizens in return for trade relationships. This is just what I voted for, exchange VISA BASED access in return for trade where it makes sense. Complete freedom of movement with equal rights as oir citizens have made no sense at all for A10 EU countries. None.
molgrips - MemberAre we going to end up like Greece and Italy as we have to borrow to do all this investment in British industry?
Why would that improve the quality of food available at reasonably priced restaurants?
It may not be a perfect indicator of economic activity but has anyone noticed how quiet the roads and trains are at the moment?
Finally, brilliant news India, Australia and America want improved access for their citizens in return for trade relationships
good luck selling that to the xenophobia pedaling right wing press that Vote Leave owe so much to.....
Infact didnt May already rule it out with India because of those very fears....
Re Mr Verhofstadt (or as Farage calls him "the high priest of the EU") he needs to understand many of us think the WTO option is a materially better deal than being in the EU. Paying £10bn per year for the EU to sell us more than we sell them was a diabolical deal.
So you're saying we don't get £10Bn extra tax by being part of a European trading club?
Finally, brilliant news India, Australia and America want improved access for their citizens in return for trade relationships. This is just what I voted for, exchange VISA BASED access in return for trade where it makes sense
Phew we can finally "take back control" of our borders. What were [url= https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics ]latest Net Migration figures[/url] again 189,000 from the EU?
Disgraceful.
With proper visa based access we'll soon have that down to the level of non-EU migration, which is... er... 196,000 😆
I'd love to see a politician telling Leave Voters that what they actually voted for was more immigration from different countries.
Do you think May will be brave enough to spin that one?
Paying £10bn per year for the EU to sell us more than we sell them was a diabolical deal.
Forgive me for not believing some random on the internet when it's been widely publicised that business leaders disagree.
Or have we had enough of experts Jam?
It may not be a perfect indicator of economic activity but has anyone noticed how quiet the roads and trains are at the moment?
Actually no. Cardiff city centre was rammed yesterday, and it's supposed to be the dead time of year.
Q: Is the EU a busted flush ? He dodges the question but at least Newsnight is asking the right question 🙂
General interview on globalisation/Trump/Brexit/Michael Ignatieff from Central European Univsersity in Budapest.
That must be where everyone is then molgrips.
Jamba - EU? busted flush? Who knows. But equally post Brexit you could aim the same question at the UK. When inflation starts to bite, and it will not least because of Brexit exchange rates, and interest rates aren't quite so good, and credit for your man or woman in the street is a little harder to get - well, watch how our economy goes then.
Remember the American nuclear policy of past decades - Mutually Asssured Destruction? Probably not a good idea to apply it to trade, however much certain Brexies want to.
And the Welsh are demanding Norwegian style access to the European market...
Three of the four UK countries have spoken. A 75:25 split. That only leaves England now.
well, watch how our economy goes then
Read between the lines igm, Jamaba doesn't care if the UK economy goes down the pan for a few years, as long as we are out of the EU, because… something to do with past attempts to regulate financial services… and because he's not personally at risk from a downturn.
That only leaves England now.
Even if the occupants of England want us to stay in the Single Market, the government do not, and, without any vote about either this issue, or on who gets to make up the government, this will not change. We don't even have a (English) opposition to the government on this issue (ignoring the single figure count of LibDems and Green).
and because he's not personally at risk from a downturn.
and because his wife hates it here and they're going to spend 6-9months a year out of the country anyway.
We did the department of Brexit lying about Deloitte the other day, now we have lies from May about whether she knew about misfiring missiles, Clark lying about whether the UK government discussed missle tests and Fallon claiming the test was successful when the Americans are pointing out the missle had to be self-destructed.
Now, do you trust this shower to do the right thing over Brexit?
PS there are reports circulating that red, white and blue Brexit actually means a white former colonies Brexit.
Who'd have thought it?
Now, do you trust this shower to do the right thing over Brexit?
I never did.
Yes. But are you more inclined to trust them, less inclined or about the same? 😉
All the Leavers are happy to exchange a short term bump in the road economically to get the benefits of a more globally focused economy. We will be much better off out imo.
About the same here. On the basis that politicians [s]lie[/s] [s] are economical with the truth[/s] use alternative facts anyway.
All the Leavers are happy to exchange a short term bump in the road economically to get the benefits of a more globally focused economy. We will be much better off out imo.
I bet they're not, not all of them. Some of them were reported to have regretted voting leave quite soon after the referendum, so I'd confidently say that only some leavers would be happy.
All the leavers Jamba?
Have you checked with all of them?
And by short term I assume you mean the rest of their lives? (Although on average this is potentially a shorter period of time than the rest of a remainer's life 😉 )
After meeting the business leaders at the White House, Mr Trump pledged to lower corporate taxes to 15% or 20%, from the current 35%, and slash regulations by up to 75% if they keep jobs in the US.
So presumably when we have our FTD with the US we have to correspond by equally slashing equivalent regulations here (whatever those regulations may be) so an equal playing field is established.
All the Leavers are happy to exchange a short term bump in the road economically
I know some that are (who are well to do pensioners).
I know some that aren't (people struggling week to week, with teenagers entering the job market in a few years).
Quit with this "all" …
to get the benefits of a more globally focused economy.
This again. We can increase our trade with non EU countries from within EU… see Germany.
Tearing up all our existing trade deals, and reducing our trade with EU countries, may well change who we trade with, but it's a pretty self defeating way to try and increase how much we trade as a whole.
[i]All the Leavers are happy to exchange a short term bump in the road economically to get the benefits of a more globally focused economy[/I]
If you look back, Jamba has mention 10 years as a possible period for this 'short-term', as in he (and I) will be retired by then - although if we've a 10 year downturn it may mean I for one won't be retired by then...
b r - given voting patterns split by age I might be closer with my "rest of their lives" suggestion for a good number of Brexies.
Bit dark that. Hey ho.
All the Leavers are happy to exchange a short term bump in the road economically to get the benefits of a more globally focused economy.
All the leavers I know personally couldn't give a toss about the economy (being adequately rich pensioners) but wanted both to stick two fingers up to Germany and to have fewer immigrants - though they barely see any anyway, where they live. I'm sure they will convince themselves they did the right thing irrespctive of the long-term outcome (which they probably won't live to see anyway).
Img - you are not correct about Wales. Don't confuse what two parties talked about today with how the Welsh voted.
The more global outlook argument should be taken with a pinch of salt. We already trade with much of the globe and have Free Trade Agreements with 90% of the economies that we trade with. Much of this has been facilitated not hindered by membership of the EU, including trade with C'wealth countries. Just more Brexshit BS.
Sounds good but doesn't stand up to scrutiny
THM - don't spoil my fun. I know, but I'm enjoying stirring.
On the other hand is it not a white paper by the Welsh Assembly leader and therefore has as much validity in Wales as Theresa's pronouncements in the Westminster? More possibly as I don't think the Welsh First Minister was subbed.
All the leavers I know personally couldn't give a toss about the economy (being adequately rich pensioners) but wanted both to stick two fingers up to Germany and to have fewer immigrants
thats exactly what the leavers I know have said, including members of my family
benefits of a more globally focused economy.
Now thats got to be a joke
brexshit is the very opposite of being globally focused, its all about parochialism May herself said so 😉
Not sure IGM - i just caught the news on R4 at the end of very long drive. The only thing that I notesd was that the two parties didn't agree and that they were at odds with Welsh voters, (so yes you are stirring !! 😉 )
It's just more of the same old brexshit lies, just like the campaign they are still pretending to be all things to all people, more globalisation, less globalisation, fewer immigrants, more immigrants, brexit still means whatever you want it to mean, even 7 months down the line when there is still no coherent credible plan, just a load of jingoistic bullshit and wishful thinking. The only goal is to get A50 invoked, under the assumption that it's irrevocable the future catastrophe will be someone else's problem.
The politicians have been quick to grasp the perfect excuse for their lemming-like suicidal plunge - they were only following orders.
All the Leavers are happy to exchange a short term bump in the road economically to get the benefits of a more globally focused economy.
No they're not.
amusing to see that oz business men want the right to easier movement, as it seems do the US, add this to the £35K minimum wage in place and....
If your rich, free movement,if your poor or even average know you place! So while we will be happy to accommodate oligarchs, refugees can forget it.
I hear that there is African ex president with a few quid stashed away looking for a new home....