[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

[quote=chewkw ]Yes, they will be called Renault. Yes, No more Nissan.

Where does the money go? Do you think they care what badge is on the back of the cars they're selling?

Nissan sales figures from [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/303#post-7996699 ]your own post[/url] three months ago chewkw:

Top 10 Nissan Markets

Country --- Total Sales -- Market Share
U.S. --- 1,484,918 ---- 8.5%
China* --- 1,250,073 ---- 5.3%
Japan --- 589,046 ------ 11.7%
Mexico --- 348,941 ------ 25.8%
UK --- 169,247 ------ 5.6%
Canada --- 129,976 ------ 6.8%
Russia --- 128,713 ------ 8.0%
France --- 77,200 ------- 3.6%
Germany --- 74,596 ------- 2.2%
UAE --- 66,839 ------- 15.9%

Seems like they already do pretty well in China! And surprisingly well in France too.

[quote=teamhurtmore ]ironically May who is doing what they wanted, not what she wanted

I've commented on this a few times before - you're not jamba, so don't keep avoiding the point! What exactly do you think Maybe actually wanted? Before the referendum campaigns she certainly made Eurosceptic statements and it's easy to get the impression that it isn't any particular policy she wanted...

Meanwhile the voters didn't want a hard Brexit.

Did you see Pharma share prices after Trump committed to better price negotiation for medicine as he says the US is paying too much ?

Umm ... what that has to do with selling generic medicine in the NHS is another question

[url= http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/05/ttip-explained-the-secretive-us-eu-treaty-that-undermines-democracy/ ]cougar - ttip[/url]

aracer - I havent avoided the point, you have avoided my response. I will give you some time to page back and find it.

GrahamS - Member
Nissan sales figures from your own post three months ago chewkw:

Top 10 Nissan Markets

Seems like they already do pretty well in China! And surprisingly well in France too.

That all depends on the next three months when things change again ... 😆

Well you've correctly predicted Trump and Brexit so what's your prediction for those next three months Mystic Chewkw?

If Nissan leave the UK do you think those Chinese and Japanese sales will drop away?

How about the Mexican, Russian, German, French, Canadian sales?

Seems unlikely to me but I've given up trying to predict this world for now.

I can't even predict the past now

GrahamS - Member
Well you've correctly predicted Trump and Brexit so what's your prediction for those next three months Mystic Chewkw?

If Nissan leave the UK do you think those Chinese and Japanese sales will drop away?

How about the Mexican, Russian, German, French, Canadian sales?

Seems unlikely to me but I've given up trying to predict this world for now.

DrJ the Tories aren't going to allow the NHs to be privatised or the price of medicnes to go up, both would give them a massive electoral headache and they are not daft

Guardian piece is a "statement of the bleeding obvious". Of course all companies review their position on a regular basis, that's managements job. Nissan won't leave, that's very expensive and disruptive. They may decide to scale back future investment if they don't like Brexit terms. That's fair enough but UK is a very valuable car market. We like our shiny new cars.

I see no reason we would not do a trade deal with Japan to include cars, maybe some tech transfer / jv's too.

igm I was talking about petrol hybrid rather than outright electric, personally I am still sceptical on those. Go to hybrid first. Japanese far ahead in this area imo vs Germans for example. Europe has focused on diesel.

Cougar TTIP was the trade deal the EU have been buggaring around with for 8 (?) years spending many many millions "negotiating". Quite unpopular with various (lefty) groups throughout Europe inc UK. Typical campaign hysteria here that is was going to "privatise the NHS" etc. Anyway it was so pro-US that Trump has said he is going to kill it stone dead. I believe various teams in US and EU have been disbanded,

Nissan won't leave, that's very expensive and disruptive. They may decide to scale back future investment if they don't like Brexit terms. That's fair enough but UK is a very valuable car market. We like our shiny new cars.

A proposed (and now dead) Trade Deal between the US and the EU that Cameron and Osborne were really keen to sign us up to, but the rest of the EU had other ideas.

And also Del - thank you.

Jamba > you've still not answered my question. Are you wilfully ignoring it?

[quote=teamhurtmore ]aracer - I havent avoided the point, you have avoided my response. I will give you some time to page back and find it.

Ah, would you care to repeat it then? I've not read every single page of this thread (though I thought I'd read the pages immediately after each time I've posted) and I'm not starting now.

Jamba > you've still not answered my question. Are you wilfully ignoring it?

No, I asked above who had asked me a question as I couldn't find one. I only ignore the trolls questions/posts. Been back to page 602 and didn't spot a question you where asking me. Ask what you want.

I've oft thought much the same. Always comes across as a good guy, one of the people on here I'd like to meet, and is knowledgeable in some areas (Apple stuff springs to mind) - but it's getting to a point where almost every "factual" post is a guide for what not to do. It's like STW's equivalent of a promoted post on Facebook.

Ooohh, sucker punch 🙂 I generally have an opinion, as I put as my signature on another forum "often wrong, seldom in doubt". That being said most things seem to have gone pretty much the way I have suggested/speculated over the 4 years I have been here. Taking immigration seriously as an issue is probably the most topical, derided here when I suggested that 3 years ago. Now look where we are. Anyway without a hint of modesty and with a large dollop of pomposity I am quite knowledgeable in a few areas.

Sometime before the next GE Europe/eurozone is going to have a major major meltdown. Discussions about being in the EU / closer to Europe are going to look quite different to many Remainers (IMO of course).

[url=

n't we had enough of this expert?[/url]

Alright Jamby, here's a question for you: how do you square the difference between the Professor of European Law's views in the link I posted above with your own views, derived from perhaps much more limited experience?

In particular I'm keen to see how you resolve the issues he raises about the realism of May's demands, and the strength of her threat vs the damage a deregulated über-neoliberal tax haven approach would have on the British economy and society. I'm also keen to hear how we can enter into trade deals while retaining 100% of our sovereignty.

Now stop trolling, and start debating intelligently. Perhaps then you won't be judged quite so harshly.

Jamba - EVs. I'm naturally skeptical too but the evidence is against us. They are already good enough for the vast majority of users and the rest of us will be catered for shortly. As a cyclist I'm not keen on the silent aspect though.

Codyb. Posted this on another thread but the analogy is brilliant - even if unintentional.

codybrennan - Member
This is a beaut-

Myself and the neighbours have got a communal patch of land that we commonly look after, and we'd had a fairly well-observed but friendly set of rules that we all adhered to. Nothing onerous- it worked on a kind of barter system really- I'd mow the big lawn one week, the one we all looked out on, in return Paolo across the way would take all the bins in. It worked really well, and things got even better when one of the neighbours suggested at a meeting that we build a communal vegetable patch in the middle, barter the contributions, maybe even sell the rest on.

The produce from it was awesome; some of my neighbours are quite cosmopolitan and had contributed all kinds of things. The best thing about it though was everyone kicked in- we had all kinds of stuff growing there, and as long as you were contributing, you could take from it. We'd even got a little system going where some of the less-well off neighbours could take a wee bit more- they'll turn the corner at some point and we'll all get the benefit then. Somehow, after we got the rules up and running, everyone pitched in.

Well, you can guess what happened next. One of the neighbours- we'll not mention his real name, but John will do- fell on hard times. It was his own fault; he'd got mixed up in some shady business deals, didn't really read the T&Cs, lost a packet.

Suddenly, he's wanting to know why he's having to kick in all this effort when he's getting nothing back. Suddenly, its all: what am I getting from this, you guys are ripping me off, and I didn't agree to any of this bartering vegetable stuff, it started out as grasscutting! Well, what could we do? If he really wanted to stop pitching in, then we couldn't really give him free veg, could we? That was the nature of the deal.

So of course he's doing his own thing now, buying from the greengrocer in the town, who knows that he can't get any from us and makes him pay full market rate.

All for the sake of him maybe just realising that he had a good deal, and got something well worth having out of it. The berk.

Quite unpopular with various (lefty) groups throughout Europe inc UK. Typical campaign hysteria here that is was going to "privatise the NHS" etc. Anyway it was so pro-US that Trump has said he is going to kill it stone dead. I believe various teams in US and EU have been disbanded,

How many times can you contradict yourself in 3 sentences?

I think most peoples concerns about TTIP focused on the Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS) parts which would have let multinational companies seek damages when governments introduced polices that caused them to lose profits.

And it was dead long before Trump came to power. He's just trying to put a positive (for him) spin and claim the credit. Sad!

I think most peoples concerns about TTIP focused on the Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS) parts which would have let multinational companies seek damages when governments introduced polices that caused them to lose profits.

These terms exist in a lot of FTAs to one extent or another. Essentially it's a surrendering of our sovereignty to foreign boardrooms, Thayer than to a parliament we are well represented at.

Essentially it's a surrendering of our sovereignty to foreign boardrooms,

That happened a long time ago.

https://m.facebook.com/events/1812530828971846/
March 25. Let your voice be heard.

Downer said an Australia-UK agreement could be reached very quickly after Brexit, given that Canberra struck a deal with the US in eight months under George W Bush’s presidency.

He said a similar timeframe could be realistic [b]if Britain did not want to protect certain industries[/b], and that exploratory discussions had already taken place at many levels.

I wonder what that means?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/21/australia-to-seek-uk-migration-deal-in-brexit-trade-talks

No, I asked above who had asked me a question as I couldn't find one. I only ignore the trolls questions/posts. Been back to page 602 and didn't spot a question you where asking me. Ask what you want.

It's on the previous page just a little way above where I asked whether you were ignoring it, and it was originally on a post a ways back which you've definitely read because you replied to half of it.

Once more with feeling: Given how it directly affects her and potentially may mean she loses the right to live here, what's your wife's view on Brexit? Is she for or against?

[I]I wonder what that means?[/I]

Not difficult, if the deal suits us we'll sign it.

Cougar, please leave Jamba's wife out of this.

Questions asked of him where he has made assertions that don't stand up to cursory scrutiny, is fair. Chasing up those questions, while often futile, is also fair.

If he considers your question too personal to answer, then I'd consider it polite to leave it alone. I think others would to.

Interesting that we are aiming for US/Australian trade deals post Brexit? So let's have a think what do those two country's have an excess of that they may wish to off load in the UK?
1. Meat lots of meat
2. Cereals
3. Processed foods in general
4. Raw materials
So when Donald gets his UK trade deal and US agriculture and food processors dump very cheap tariff free food on the UK market what happens to UK agriculture?
Explained this to a local sheep farmer in the pub (he voted out to get rid of red tape) who currently sells most of his Lamb to France, let's just say the light came on.
Subsidies gone
Tariffs through the roof for his current market and no change in red tape
And the Yanks/Aussies shifting stock as fast as they can.
He reads the Daily Mail...

Can't wait for all that wonderful American food once we have a free trade deal running our farmers out of business

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Explained this to a local sheep farmer in the pub (he voted out to get rid of red tape) who currently sells most of his Lamb to France, let's just say the light came on.
Subsidies gone
Tariffs through the roof for his current market and no change in red tape
And the Yanks/Aussies shifting stock as fast as they can.
He reads the Daily Mail...

Well, he knows who he can blame - can't say I'll be shedding a tear.

And the Aussies are asking for a relaxation of immigration controls....

Also interesting that it is being reported that under 35s rate freedom of movement higher than controlling immigration.
Jamba - as I recall you're not under 35, you may struggle to understand this. 😉

(Nor am I of course - but I'm very immature so mentally still 18 😉 )

- UK farmers (as opposed to large rural land owners)
- UK fisherman (as opposed to large fleet owners)
- small UK manufacturers (as opposed to large multinational manufacturers)

I think that sums up the big losers.

Those outside England probably hit hardest in all these areas (if you look at export figures).

Cougar, please leave Jamba's wife out of this.

Questions asked of him where he has made assertions that don't stand up to cursory scrutiny, is fair. Chasing up those questions, while often futile, is also fair.

If he considers your question too personal to answer, then I'd consider it polite to leave it alone. I think others would to.

Fair point. Though if that's the case, he only had to say so.

DrJ has just expressed a sentiment that I also feel basically **** em and there is a lot of people I know feel like this and when Mrs May talks about unity (much like the Donald) she is simply not going to get it from a significant part of the population. Farming has huge debt problems most small to medium sized farms are into the banks for serious overdrafts and they continue to fight each other to buy grassland at £10k an acre to say some are highly leveraged is literally the understatement of the year. Tarrifs against their existing market and cheap US food and a major change in subsidies is likley to reduce the value of agricultural land significantly (possibly back to £1500 an acre) means many will simply become bankrupt. I think the NFU saw this possibility but few farmers believed them.

Indeed the NFU advised vote remain.
What I would hope for once we have "regained control" is that the rigourous welfare requirements placed on our farmers will apply to all imports. If not then they certainly are being hung out to dry.

My sector. The fall in value of agricultural land would be a disaster. In my part of the world - Mid and South Wales - there is a massive disparity between land prices and the living that can be made from the land. Most bank borrowing is secured on land at its artificially high value - value drops and the bank are then left exposed security wise and loans are called in or overdraft facilities converted to loans at a higher rate of interest. Factor into this there are a lot of nervous valuers out there who I would have said have over valued land and will be facing the heat from the banks because of this. I would lay a substantial amount of blame with valuers for overvaluing and setting benchmarks against sales to special interest buyers.

I went to bid on a parcel of quite unremarkable land just outside Brecon for a client recently and I had instruction to bid above what the client thought it was worth but we were all outdone by an offshore millionaire buying land for the tax relief at over £14,400.00 per acre. Agents say that's the benchmark ,which is crap, which then creates all the false expectation amongst other other land owners and banks - good for agents commission.

Never mind - 2 chickens for a fiver.

You will get 3 American chickens for a fiver....

Not after the devaluation of the £ - only 2 these days

Oh you cynic THM.

In our glorious future it will be 4 chickens and a bar of Hershey's. Two bars if you're unlucky.

Winner winner we all get cheap chicken dinner....

Yeah but farmers won't need to put up those fascist billboards any more so that cancels it all out.

Once more with feeling: Given how it directly affects her and potentially may mean she loses the right to live here, what's your wife's view on Brexit? Is she for or against?

Cougar 100% for Brexit, she came campaigning with me on the street stall and delivered the leaflets. She was very effective on the stall tell many people how it was wrong to believe the French where all for the EU. There are many against including a decent portion of her family. Like me she believes Brexit will make zero difference in practice as to where we can live and work. As I said before my wife would be happy to hear she (we) couldn't live [b]permanently[/b] in the UK as she doesn't really like it.

Zokes people need a pantomine villan, you included. Zero intention of replying to any question you may have now or in the future unless it suits me to make a point. None.

@igm agreed the silence of EVs is a problem, have experiences that dirst handbin London as a cyclist and pedestrian. I think they should have to make a noise ! Pollution is a major issue, profusion of diesel has been a disaster.

Like me she believes Brexit will make zero difference in practice as to where we can live and work. As I said before my wife would be happy to hear she (we) couldn't live permanently in the UK as she doesn't really like it.

You are in a luxury position of being able to afford to pay for the additional health insurance etc. that this will entail. I assume you made this clear to the people who visited your stall?