So when is Borris going to visit Bob so Liam can start hashing out a trade deal
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. I have far more trust in NZ animal husbandry than hugely discredited Eastern Europeans wrt pork, poultry and of course horse burgers
That's the problem with just making random statements based on your own prejudices, it leaves you open to looking silly
http://www.noted.co.nz/currently/social-issues/inside-the-new-metro-scandal-in-the-slaughterhouse/
http://www.safe.org.nz/articles/010714/horrific-nz-pig-cruelty-exposed-again
I know people who's grandparents were immigrants from Poland, don't go suggesting Polish UK links are either week or new, they are not. I've worked with lots of people from India, and the visa restrictions for them working here are a complete pain in the arse. Anyone that thinks that us making it harder for Polish people to live and work here will result in workers from India having an easier time here are deluding themselves (or attempting to delude others). Anyone that thinks that the EU is stopping us trading with the rest of the world, likewise. Quite the opposite.
Mike - why do we need to carry on with the narrative that we don't know what we want? The issues are really very simple:
Back a page but I had to go to the pub, it's evidence based THM the 3 leading people on the case seem to be unable to keep things consistent with the PM, the ones on the sideline want something else at times and what they want is generally being dismissed as impossible by the people they need to agree it with.
It's about making it a level playing field kelvin. Same for everyone.
kimbers you won't read about the Eastern European stuff as it's covered up by the EU. 6 countries are in breach of the animal welfare standards for pigs but they are allowed to freely export to the rest of the EU. We have abuses in our country but when they are discovered they are sorted out. My belief is the EU turned a blind eye as it was all sold to Russia cheaply, now with samctions that doesn't happen.
Genuine question. Entire countries in breach of just certain abattoirs have been found to be in breach. I would honestly struggle to believe it's an entire country (or six)
Any links?
It's about making it a level playing field kelvin. Same for everyone.
No, it's about making things worse for people you have no affinity for.
And worse for UK business to work on the international stage.
You want to level down.
You want to dispose of the trade deals we have.
You want to remove travel and working rights from people across Europe.
As it happens, it looks like most of the country feels the same way as you.
Some of us want to raise up.
We want to do more trade, with more countries.
We want people to be able to more easily work and live in more countries.
I accept there are fewer of us.
You want to remove travel and working rights from people across Europe.
As it happens, it looks like most of the country feel the same way as you.
Actually i suspect most that voted because because they wanted to curb immigration to the UK would probably NOT want any travel restrictions placed on the British. I suspect it's a terribly one sided viewpoint
It's about making it a level playing field kelvin. [s]Same[/s][b] Near impossible[/b] for everyone.
It was the stated aim of this government to reduce immigration, huge amounts were made about the problems of immigration in the debate. It is about keeping foreigners out of the UK.
[quote=jambalaya ]It's about making it a level playing field
Are you describing a race to the bottom or politics of envy there?
I'm wondering if your bias is so inherent that you'll support the notion of "making it a level playing field" on this thread if I point out that one way to make the playing field more level is hugely progressive taxation system (ie top rate >90%)?
Out. Can't stand Juncker dictating to and bullying us.
We shovel huge amounts into the EU coffers and then get told how to spend the fraction we get back.
There was/still is a substantial concerted effort to frighten us into remaining, but all the doom and gloom predictions have been wrong so far and not just by a small amount.
Britain's economy is stating to boom and despite the challenges ahead, Brexit presents huge opportunity for our future prosperity.
I principally voted leave as I value democracy and freedom.
Out. Can't stand Juncker dictating to and bullying us.We shovel huge amounts into the EU coffers and then get told how to spend the fraction we get back.
any facts to actually back that up?
There was/still is a substantial concerted effort to rughrennus inti remaining, but all the doom and gloom predictions have been wrong so far and not just by a fraction.Britain is statring to boom and despite the challenges ahead, Brexit presents huge opportunity for our future prosperity.
again any facts? The UK has not left yet, any positives are happening while being part of the EU.
I principally voted leave as I value democracy and freedom.
2 very important things that being part of the EU doesn't remove, we are just part of a larger democracy which has MP's who are voted for and represent you.
kimbers you won't read about the Eastern European stuff as it's covered up by the EU. 6 countries are in breach of the animal welfare standards for pigs but they are allowed to freely export to the rest of the EU. We have abuses in our country but when they are discovered they are sorted out. [b]My belief is[/b] the EU turned a blind eye as it was all sold to Russia cheaply, now with samctions that doesn't happen.
My belief, I think, in my opinion etc counts for diddly squat. Today's homework is to go away and come up with some evidence, some hard facts, something that supports your belief.
I would like you to show that 6 countries are breaching EU rules and is doing nothing about it, and that these privately run companies anre any worse than the UK'
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/28/fsa-4000-breaches-animal-welfare-laws-uk-abattoirs-two-years ]https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/28/fsa-4000-breaches-animal-welfare-laws-uk-abattoirs-two-years[/url]
One has to wonder whether those UK figures will go up or down after we split. I mean, we're brimming to overflowing with civil servants in this country, aren't we?
I principally voted leave as I value democracy and freedom.
What about cooperation and integration?
Out. Can't stand Juncker dictating to and bullying us. [b]Always better to run away towardds an uncertain future than standing up to bullies. Go us![/b]We shovel huge amounts into the EU coffers and then get told how to spend the fraction we get back. [b]99/100s is a fraction. What is the fraction that you're talking about? What are we putting and what are we getting out as a whole?[/b]
There was/still is a substantial concerted effort to frighten us into remaining, but all the doom and gloom predictions have been wrong so far and not just by a small amount. [b]Whereas, and we do come back to that bus, getting our border (that never went away) back and the scaremongering of immigration from leave was what exactly?[/b]
Britain's economy is stating to boom and despite the challenges ahead, Brexit presents huge opportunity for our future prosperity. [b]0.6% over 3 months as opposed to an annual figure of 2.5%, your dictionary is broken if boom means remaining the same. Let's wait and see what happens after A50 is triggered and the BS stops and reality kicks in. I imagine that when the other 48% of the population get behind Brexshit, the economy will truly boom. :roll:[/b]
I principally voted leave as I value democracy and freedom. [b]'Coz we didn't have those before.[/b]
Good luck in your new found freedom where pavements are gold.
So it turns out that Mays experienced safe pair of hands pick for EU ambassador is the one that passed the dirty trump dossier onto the FBI.... how is his position looking?
I wonder if trump will mention it when he meets May, we have to keep him sweet so we can get a new [s] TTIP[/s] trade deal set up
Well. After toing and froing I voted in.
What I wanted (and want) us to be in is a reformed EU, but figured we were better off as a thorn inside an unreformed EU than as a European country trying to deal with the EU as it now is!
However, a new dream scenario now presents itself. If the Irish court case says that article 50 is reversible it seems to put us in an awesome position. Work out the deal for 1 year 11 months, don't like it, cancel brexit and then kick it all off again.
The EU sans UK wouldn't like this game, but tough. They could end the game by kicking us out of the EU, but that would take a unanimous decision, so fat chance?
The real stumbling block is that the UK government probably isn't up for playing hardball in this way, but as I said, it's a dream!
Not a great deal to add..
20,000
The EU sans UK wouldn't like this game, but tough. They could end the game by kicking us out of the EU, but that would take a unanimous decision, so fat chance?
I wouldn't count on it, try reading the European press. What i have read is along lines of f*** off.
The Brexiters claims that the EU will have to work with us are crap, the UK has never tried to involve itself in the UK and has just snipped for 40years.
De Gaulle has been proven right, and that is the feeling in many articles.
Also some of the comments coming from the British government don't help our case.
Old Europe might want us gone, but I think it would be a tough decision for new (Eastern) Europe to want us out - especially with Putin's sabre rattling and Trump's views on Russia and NATO.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
when jambalaya apologises for making up stuff to back up his arguments 😉
It may sound like bullying but repeatedly claiming things he surely knows to be false as true should be called out
Old Europe might want us gone, but I think it would be a tough decision for new (Eastern) Europe to want us out - especially with Putin's sabre rattling and Trump's views on Russia and NATO.
So who is going to defend eastern europe if not Nato???? It certainly won't be the UK who object to any european defence co-operation outside Nato for a starter. I believe that Trump would be happy to give the Baltic countries and Poland to Russia if he felt it suited his agenda.
bikeeey - MemberI principally voted leave as I value democracy...
1) first past the post
2) unelected second house
3) unelected head of state
your valued 'democracy' is an illusion at best.
So who is going to defend eastern europe if not Nato???? It certainly won't be the UK who object to any european defence co-operation outside Nato for a starter. I believe that Trump would be happy to give the Baltic countries and Poland to Russia if he felt it suited his agenda.
Exactly. And with US support uncertain, UK support for NATO increases in importance.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
If I sit here telling you that the moon is made of cheese, completely ignore multiple examples given by others to explain that it's not, yet consistently claim that I'm both correct and you're all wrong, I suspect many posters would tell me that I'm wrong several times. If I continue doing this for about a year, there'll be not only a lot of posts telling me I'm wrong, and a few quite rightly questioning both my mental capacity and my ability to have an intelligent discussion.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
It will be impossible to prove right OR wrong, to be able to prove you need to have two cases that you can compare.
think like this, there are many times in life where you have a choice, you make that choice and you may wonder if it was the right choice, but you can never know the outcome if you have made a different choice.
No one is bullying Jamba by asking him to back up his assertions.
I wouldn't worry about him on this thread, because he, and we, know that…
1) We will almost certainly leave the EU (which is what he wants)
2) The EU will be weaker for losing one of its most successful economies (which is what he wants)
3) Our manner of exit is likely to result in us leaving all the European institutions (which is what he wants)
4) The Tories will now be in power for a generation (which is what he wants)
5) The Tories will prioritise financial services in future replacement deals (which is what he wants)
7) UK regulation will in time become much weaker than that of the EU countries (which is what he wants)
So very little reason to feel sorry for him as regards the issues discussed here at all!
[quote=kelvin ]No one is bullying Jamba by asking him to back up his assertions.
I wouldn't worry about him on this thread, because he, and we, know that…
1) We will almost certainly leave the EU (which is what he wants)
2) The EU will be weaker for losing one of its most successful economies (which is what he wants)
3) Our manner of exit is likely to result in us leaving all the European institutions (which is what he wants)
4) The Tories will now be in power for a generation (which is what he wants)
5) The Tories will prioritise financial services in future replacement deals (which is what he wants)
7) UK regulation will in time become much weaker than that of the EU countries (which is what he wants)
So very little reason to feel sorry for him as regards the issues discussed here at all!
8 ) He lives in France
9) He'll be retired and living in the sun by the time the 'result' is known
10) He'll then be deported back to the UK, but as he's not lived here for so long he'll be forced to take a citizenship test, which he'll fail
I think he may still be resident in the UK, though spending a lot of time in France. Benefit of doubt to be appplied on that one.
Play the ball not the man.
The EU is trying to level the playground, while some member states, notably Ireland Luxembourg, the Netherlands and the UK, busy themselves (ab)using the autonomy they still have to create as much advantage as possible.
[quote=philxx1975 ] I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
Essentially if you post things that are untrue then you will be challenged for it on here as the forum is, whatever the politics, broadly rational and facts based
Its really not our fault he cannot meet this standard and that folk point it out to him.
as for play his arguments one can only do this if he were rational and fact based as he is not , and by lord many of us have tried, then folk inevitably just mock him/play the man/bully him as you prefer.
I have largely given up engaging as it is pointless and he wont change
Unfortunately i dont think many of those who disagree with his approach will give up though so we are left with this
And "this" is a pretty accurate reflection of the UK as a whole. The posters contributing reflecting the views of their camps and interest groups. It's a mess, there won't be many winners but Jamba and others who specialise in providing a maximum of return with a minimum of tax and to hell with ethics will be among them.
I wonder what is going to happen to the special relationship with the US after the golden shower dossier?
It should strengthen it, Chris, playing amusing games with prostitutes is a favourite activity of the Westminster set. Where's Jive Honey Jive when we need him?
well the secret agent who wrote the dossier has gone to ground
[b]MAKES YOU THINK[/b]
cchris2lou - Member
I wonder what is going to happen to the special relationship with the US after the golden shower dossier?
trump is quite plainly upset about this
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the scum reporting that it was our new EU ambassador that passed it to McCain
trump is launching an investigation into it all
embarrassing for Johnson & May
embarrassing for Johnson & May
back to the back of the queue you go. we really are going to end up friendless at this rate.
Will Mr Assange be getting a room mate?
Assange is gutted he sold out to Trump hoping to be forgotten.
back to the back of the queue you go. we really are going to end up friendless at this rate.
We will have to remain in EU and hide
Interesting view of the difference in opinions north and south of the border...
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/yougov-polls-reveals-chasm-between.html?m=1
