[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

I can't look! The tension...

BLLX

No...

Maybe

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(it seems some people don't know how many posts there are on a page 😉 )

Curses....

Third time lucky

1000 😉

Bravo aracer

You win!! You are Michel Barnier and you us all £5

[quote=teamhurtmore ]Brave aracer

No - just good at counting 😆

Pleased that's over....

Felt like an episode of Father Ted.

Careful now...

Does in not depend on how long the posts are?

If you include all the deleted posts, this is the first post on page 1,003.

(I'm not joking either..!)

8)

[quote=teamhurtmore ]Does in not depend on how long the posts are?

Nope - new page starts after 35 posts have been made on a page (the total post count of less than 35,000 is due to posts being deleted on previous pages - I'm assuming given Cougar's comment that posts deleted before a new page is started don't count towards the 35). My first post on the previous page was 12th post on the page...

matt_outandabout - Member
Careful now...

A motto for those tempted by rampant nationalism that ends in Brexit?

Go Brexit.....1000 pages an we still don’t know fk all what it means 🙂

I'm assuming given Cougar's comment that posts deleted before a new page is started don't count towards the 35

Correct. Unless I enable the magic button which displays them again, in which case it shifts all the page numbers accordingly. So presumably there has been 105 deleted posts on this thread (well, 106 cos I've just deleted my own double post too).

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Aracer - not sure whether to be impressed or sad! But with that inside knowledge are you outing yourself as a secret mod? 😉

1000? Blimey!

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I'd put ny house on us hitting 2000 with nothing any more resolved than it is now

don't read this post, I'm merely chipping in to page 1,000.

I'd put ny house on us hitting 2000

new page starts after 35 posts have been made on a page

There has been rampant page inflation because it used to be 40 - in this case don't blame it on the Brexit, blame it on the boogie.

[quote=mefty ]

new page starts after 35 posts have been made on a page

[quote=teamhurtmore ]Aracer - not sure whether to be impressed or sad! But with that inside knowledge are you outing yourself as a secret mod?

If I was I wouldn't need to assume about deleted posts would I?

Or is that a double bluff? 😈

Though don't be too impressed at my counting ability (actually I'm not sure I had ever counted the posts on a page before just now, just noted that 36 posts resulted in a 2nd page, 71 in a 3rd etc.)

tjagain - Member

Why do you think tyhe outies are so hysterical about the prospect of another referendum? Its because they know they would lose

Even Jamba admitted this is the case, says it all really.

jambalaya - Member

Remainers want a second Referendum on the deal as it will surely be rejected, Remainers will vote no and half the leavers will think the deal is either too soft or too hard. It's bound to be 66/33 whether its a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit.

FTFY

You are very cynical for a mod.

So if i understand this correctly we had a narrow win based on lies, there is no majority for what to do next, no clear plan but we have to get right behind it, whatever it is.

[quote=mefty ]FTFY
You are very cynical for a mod.

you dont [s]read[/s]get the e-mails when you have been naughty then 😉

Anyway, back to the original subject - didn't catch up before when I noticed we were on page 999!

[quote=teamhurtmore ]sorry aracer but you are missing (some of) the key issues here
1. It is a zero some game. The EU has made it very clear that the Uk position after Brexshit must be weaker than it is now. There is no ambiguity there. There is irony of course, since in protecting the project, or at least pretending to, they lose out too. But path, who cares about details....

😆 I suggest you do some research into what a zero [b]sum[/b] game is

I'll repeat what I said several hundred pages back that the best the UK can aim for a customs union like Turkey have but with the power to negotiate it's own trade deals with non EU members.It will come at a price though...
As an aside is the EU actually a force for good? It may be good for it's members and citizens but is it good for the rest of the world,especially developing nations? Many African nations feel they are getting shafted by the EU. Germany makes more money out of coffee than Ethiopia where it is grown for example.EU import tariffs stifle the development of developing nations.They can sell some of the raw materials(stuff the EU needs but cant grow) but not maufactured products where the real money can be made nor stuff that competes with EU grown produce without crippling tariffs. Looking from outside of the EU bubble is the EU anything more than a giant cartel that actually keeps poor non EU nations poor? Lots on here have laudable views about alleviating poverty,helping others, promoting freedom and equality etc but do the EU trade policies actually achieve the opposite? I don't for one minute think this was ever in the minds of any of the Brexiteers btw.

with that inside knowledge are you outing yourself as a secret mod?

I'm Brian and so is my wife.

jambalaya - Member
Remainers want a second Referendum

#

Many don't as they understand that referendums have no place in a parliamentary democracy.

Interesting to read that Jamba thinks Leave will lose heavily though.

the best the UK can aim for

That's really not the best the UK can hope for. It's the least worst.

I thought Junker was using an analogy about 28 drinks but just saw him on the news and he must have been the only guy in the bar

Is this still page 1000?

If so 'celebrate good times, come on'...

So in the last 1000 pages have any of the leavers told us what the plan is. Anyone admitted that the bus thing might not have been 100% accurate?

I think this thread is a bit like bitcoin, you think it'll crash and fade away but it just keeps getting bigger.

Cougar - Moderator

Interesting to read that Jamba thinks Leave will lose heavily though.

TBH I think most brexiteers know this; it's why the campaign promised everything to everyone, they knew there was no vision of brexit- no real brexit- that could win them the referendum.

The only surprise is when people admit it.

Post 35000!!

And 350 million for the NHS.

Oh wait a minute..

So we are back to the voters were all thick argument

Pity we failed to present an easy and compelling case to stay when the Brexshiteers had nothing. How thick were we??

And this comes from some folk who swallowed what Salmon and his crew were BSing about all along and were perfectly happy to say that the economic cost was worth it!! Amazing....

Nowt so queer as folk

Was that supposed to be aimed at me? It's just, it doesn't seem to relate to [i]any[/i] of the posts in the last day or so but I suppose mine is the closest.

Can someone summarise the last 1000 pages?

Some bloke couldn't decide on something

Probably still can't

Err that's it

Can we not have the big bouncing numbers for every page?

Hammond has admitted preparations so far have cost 500million

So we are back to the voters were all thick argument

You've been banging that drum since I last visited this thread about a hundred pages ago. It's still twisting people's words for your own ends and not what anyone's actually ever said ever.

In our earlier exchange I suggested that in the referendum voters weren't equipped to make an informed decision based on commonly understood knowledge. I stand by that. But this is a world apart from your over-simplistic "voters are thick" schtick.

The electorate in general do not have the skills, understanding and knowledge to be in a position to dictate what is best for the country. This is why we have democratically elected politicians who at least in theory should have and are empowered to act in our best interests, so that we don't -have- to make those decisions.

If I needed surgery, I'd want it done by a surgeon rather than by Diane down the pub who's good at needlework. I'm not saying that Diane is thick, rather that she's not best qualified to be doing that job.

But you know that really don't you.

It's all he's got cougar.

Nothing is going to happen over the weekend how about we celebrate this milestone by giving this thread a rest.
Turn it back on Monday morning and we can pick up where we left off.

THM, Cougar - can I just say that around 50% of the population are below average intelligence. Very close to 50% in fact.
Roughly, by coincidence, the percentage that voted for Brexit.
Just sayin’ 😉

I've said the same thing myself earlier on this thread.

Point is that this does not equate to "the voters" as a whole despite the stick THM likes to beat us with, nor is it an accusation levelled at "all leavers" as he alluded to about 300 pages back. Rather it simply equates to, well, a little under half of the populace by definition as you say.

Are all leavers thick? No.
Are all voters thick? No.
Are some of all the voters / leavers / remainers thick? Of course they are.

None of which has any bearing on their ability to cast an informed vote. I'm far from thick but I'm relatively politically ignorant; should I be allowed to take part in the Brexit decision-making process? If I were me I wouldn't let me because I don't know what I'm talking about, it's not my area of expertise.

TL;DR, if all the voters are thick, I'm also one of the thick people who shouldn't be allowed to vote on individual policy decisions.

If people list as their reasons for voting to leave things that are either impossible or nothing to do with the EU I'm happy to call them thick, there were also plenty of people who told us that they were sick of these experts and they could easily understand all the issues without any help - some of them might not have been the smartest people too.

As we can see by the startling progress and the way the EU is simply signing off on anything the UK proposes that us on the remain side were wrong, so badly wrong in fact I'm not sure how we missed it all. It's not as if most of this was covered before the vote or in the last few months.

The UK needs to work out how to do the right thing here.

Don't worry we'll get there, it's painful watching the slow-motion car crash but it will end eventually.

Of course it will be hugely expensive and damaging by the time it's finished, but that's life.

The UK needs to work out how to do the right thing here.

There is no way to do anything now that doesn't end up with the country in a worse place than it was in before all this or that it's in now.

Call off Brexit (which realistically is far and away the most sensible option) would result in riots, the right wing press would be stirring up all sorts of treason / against the will of the people arguments and the Tory party would fall to pieces (not that the last bit is bad other than the sudden Government vacuum it would create).

Proceeding with Brexit in whatever haphazard, bumbling along, unplanned, making-it-up-as-they-go manner the Government manages means the country gets shafted whatever happens and we end up in some sort of transitional no man's land for the next 10 years trying to patch things up and with each side blaming the other for ****ing it all up so spectacularly.

It's all he's got cougar.

To be fair he also employs 'ha, ha, ha, Scottish people' and 😯

he stick THM likes to beat us with

What an odd comment. I am merely responding the regular if not constant flow of argument - see the previous page - which questions the validity of the resul because people were unable to (ie, are too thick as some said directly) to distinguish fact from lies or that there was no plan or vision etc. In your case you even question the whole validity of referendums and claim that you were ill qualified to vote.

Your argument goes back to Aristotle so may be you are as clever as he is. Personally I am a strong advocate of personal freedom combined with the associated need to take responsibility. I think people should have a say and be held responsible for their decisions and I am in favour of devolving power in general rather than centralising it.

Hence I am happy to have a referendum - although not too often and not with 50:50 decisions points (can't think of a better term). And I am happy to accept the result of GEs and the referendum in this case and try to make the best of what I believe IS a bad job.

I also try to understand why people voted the way they did - who do people fall for the Trumps, Bojos, Goves, Sturgeons and Salmonds of this world. The people who really are thick are those that simple dismiss the result and the voters instead of seeking to understand why the vote the way they do.

Oh and even worse, then try to out lie the liers such as those listed above. They win the whole packet of biscuits and (as you cougar encourage us to do) should be taken up on their nonsense when they post it. It's your green light. You made this point many times.

thecaptain - Member
Don't worry we'll get there

Call off Brexit (which realistically is far and away the most sensible option) would result in riots, the right wing press would be stirring up all sorts of treason / against the will of the people arguments and the Tory party would fall to pieces (not that the last bit is bad other than the sudden Government vacuum it would create).

ha, ha, ha, Scottish people'

Equally odd if not odder. As I noted many times the great Scottish people were far too canny to fall for Salmonds BS. You should be proud of that. They stand head and shoulders above the rUK.

Hence why I, my wife and mini THM chose to be educated there 😉

Oh what I mean by "get there" is work out that the least damaging option is to call it off (perhaps via an endless "transition" or some similar membership-in-all-but-name).

Or get a bespoke deal that is not a million miles away from what we had?

Can someone summarise the last 1000 pages?

Most posters think Brexit is stupid.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/13/labour-flags-up-brexit-poll-which-suggests-public-regret-decision

There was a similar article in the Independent by Richard Branson which said that in a few years time Britain would realise it's mistake and ask to rejoin.

THM I'm sure you will portray it as a "bespoke deal" but actually it will be a humongous and humiliating climb - down on the UK side.

The only deal the UK can get is bespoke. It's yet another soundbite that is meaningless.

in a few years time Britain would realise it's mistake and ask to rejoin.

Which would be a short conversation.

Which would be a short conversation.

requiring unanimous consent from a group of countries economically damaged by Brexit.

Indeed, here is some advance footage from that conversation as our reverse-Brexit bulldogs head back to rejoin.

Hence why I, my wife and mini THM chose to be educated there

Does St Andrews actually count as Scotland?

Well THM has no understanding of Scotland that is clear from his comments but then given his tiny narrow worldview its hardly surprising. anything that is not hard right tory is clearly incomprehensible to him

 In your case you even question the whole validity of referendums and claim that you were ill qualified to vote.

I also try to understand why people voted the way they did

Absolutely true - as has been demonstrated with the whole referendum thing, there's a reason why we elect a government to run the country; the people are not qualified to make such an enormous decision. I know I wasn't.

The main reason we delegate government to politicians is because it is impracticable to run the country by plebiscite. No one is qualified to evaluate the detail, we rely on politicians to weigh up the arguments and then make a judgement. It is perfectly reasonable on big constitutional issues for the arguments to be laid before the people so they can make their own judgement based on their life experience.

"you were suckered into voting leave, fool".

Well we will have more control, albeit you may think the cost is too high. We will have more influence over our immigration policy, and would the few who say they were influenced by the £350 million have really changed their mind if £200 million was used instead? And anyway the OBR forecast is that our contribution net of rebate will be £325 million by 2021.

So why don't we have a referendum on capital punishment. It's a fairly major issue, simple enough for the public to understand.

And tax cuts, we all like a nice tax cut after all.

Well that approach ought to kill off any argument DrJ

I mean we shouldn’t leave the question hanging

Or a referendum on legality of homosexuality or a referendum on whether muslims should be allowed in the country.

I think the results would show people exactly what sort of country we live in.

Can’t think of any tax puns

So why don't we have a referendum on capital punishment. It's a fairly major issue, simple enough for the public to understand.

Because there is not a significant body of opinion calling for one.

Really? I have seen many - at least as much as called for a EU referendum. which you must remember is all brought about by factional infighting in the tory party and promoted by non UK newspaper owners. There was no outcry in the UK until the concerted campaign to whip up xenophobia by some factions in the tory party and the aforementioned newspaper owners

Well THM has no understanding of Scotland that is clear from his comments but then given his tiny narrow worldview its hardly surprising. anything that is not hard right tory is clearly incomprehensible

You would be better off ignoring him. Then you can keep happily posting stuff that is untrue to your hearts content in your own little fantasy world.

Mefty as we know (from TJ's own sources) the majority support the government getting on with things including those like myself who voted to remains. But the hard core remoaners will keep trying to suppress the majority.

Is this the longest ever STW thread? I don't remember ever seeing a 1000+ page thread before.