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We are well into the realms of fantasy land if folk expect the PM to go on radio and state she is opposed to Brexshit in the middle of leading the negotiations
I dont think it matters as her "refusal" let us know the answer anyway.
As aracer noted she stayed stum to appease Tories not to say anything to the EU. It was to paper over obvious cracks within her own party not to make the ice lady more potent when whacking the EU negotiators into submission. If you think that performance scared them then you are the delusional one.
Its a loaded question and she could have just said my personal opinion is of no relevance i serve the people and their will is clear so I will do my duty for the country I love and so proudly serve.
Its not hard to not make a pigs ear of it ....even I have the diplomacy to do this 😉
Has anyone here come to regret their choice?
Not regret, but I think I might vote Brexit now, but there have been plenty of polls and they consistently show there is no major movement and a significant majority is against a further referendum.
The people who should regret are those who didn't vote at all. I think that if there were to be a second referendum any difference would come from those didn't vote first time around.
Would be funny to see a 2nd ref
Johnson would back remain if he thought it'd make him PM ! THE
The main parties so split on it all
The Tories still chewing pieces off each other over Europe hence Maybot being the weakest PM in a generation !
Would there be another bus of lies for the gullible though ?
Probably but it would be sponsored by remoaners this time
plenty of polls and they consistently show there is no major movement and a significant majority is against a further referendum
Since when has the will of the people been important (on this thread)?
The minority must prevail...call it all off now 😀
But it is ok, JC is going to veto "NO deal", poor chump hasn't worked out that he has already voted for it.
Isn't he going for a "jobs first Brexshit" ?
Sounds a sure fire winner with his mates.
I think you'll find that May is the master of empty soundbites !
The remoaner bus could be that Peter Norths revised Brexit vision of decimation...
Brexit at any cost did May say today?
I do love this idea that a one off vote settles UK policy for ever and cannot be changed.
Its a simply ludicrous suggestion. Of course another referendum can be held especially now that the true picture of disaster is getting harder and harder to hide.
thats how democracy works.
mefty - MemberNot regret, but I think I might vote Brexit now, but there have been plenty of polls and they consistently show there is no major movement and a significant majority is against a further referendum.
Nonsense. Are right wing brexiteers unable to see the reality? It is absolutly clear that a second referendum would have a large remain majority
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/02/britain-would-vote-to-remain-in-the-eu-in-second-referendum-6749358/
and numerous o0ther sources.
[quitling]But Labour...[/quitling]
Of course another referendum can be held
What was that definition of insanity again?
This article in today's Guardian sums up the [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/10/brexit-cliff-edge-eu-hardline-thatcherism-uk-economy ]Unhinged lunacy of the extremists presently driving current Brexit policy[/url]
It's not that they don't know about the shitstorm they're ushering in. They know alright, but they just dont care.
Why? Because the 'little people' will suffer immeasurabley, but they'll do alright, right? So it's all good!
Well....
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There are many Tory MP's, who are actually sane, who are (privately) expressing the view that this is where it'll end up if the fruit loop hardliners get the Turbo-Thatcherite, regulation and tax free, corporate wet dream Brexit they've longed for
Mefty - are you going to thank TJ for posting a link that proved your point and falsified his?
To post it with "nonsense" too is comic value over and above the call of duty
Remoaners ability to make things up is outstanding. Will the tag team be able to trump it?
thecaptain - Member
Of course another referendum can be held
What was that definition of insanity again?
it only stands if you get the same answer. Its clear it would be a large remain majority
No, it stands if you expect a different answer. Oops.
🙂
Was this not what you were arguing would be the outcome the second definitive one ?I do love this idea that a one off vote settles UK policy for ever and cannot be changed.
I think their should be another but think it is unlikely unless MP's grow a back bone.
teamhurtmore - Member
Probably but it would be sponsored by remoaners this time
Just for fun of course... what would you write on the bus?
Im not sure, about a 2nd vote would go, I think plenty of people believe the hype about it being all the EUs fault that they haven't immediately capitulated as the brexies said they would.
The messy compromises of reality, transitions etc, not nearly as exciting as the swashbuckling fantasy !
Tho watching Davis & May waste time with pointless elections and whining about no trade talks, you'd think that the easiest trade deals in history, and us holding all the cards the day after the vote, not threatening our place in the single market ..... 🙂 some people might have realised theres not gonna be any cake?
[quote=thecaptain ]What was that definition of insanity again?
Is it carrying on doing something which is quite clearly shit, because a snapshot of public opinion was marginally in favour?
I think plenty of people believe the hype about it being an the EUs fault
I said this pages back - it would become the new narrative. Even those who claim to have voted remain now bleat it continuously - either it’s the EU’s fault or “imagine this in Labour’s hands”. It’s party-line above all else.
Is it carrying on doing something which is quite clearly shit, because a snapshot of public opinion was marginally in favour?
It's a little bit more complicated than einsteins definition of insanity in this context. But not by much.
Given that most tories are incredibly rich and rely on thier offshore investments, and tax dodges they are essentially slaves to external influence masquerading as a government to preserve thier personal wealth.
They grabbed the ball and they've run right down the pitch with it.
The leavers can't say anything about it because that is what they voted for, the remainers are just like WTF.
Just for fun of course... what would you write on the bus?
"Are we there yet?"
Couldn't you guess?!? 😉
But I would miss the comedy gold moments like ^ once this is over.
Shirley it'd be 'Look out, Cliff !'
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Those pesky cliffs. Getting in the way of progress.
Mefty - are you going to thank TJ for posting a link that proved your point and falsified his?
To be honest I didn't bother reading it, but as you drew my attention to it and no doubt his, I rather enjoyed the payoff line in the article he subsequently posted
“depressing findings overall for remaining Remainers and those in favor of a soft Brexit. Public opinion seems hostile to things that would keep us in the single market, to voting again and to paying what it seems the EU might ask us for. Strikingly, all this despite confidence in the outcome waning.”
Looking forward to less of this sort of thing after 2019
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/moths-ivy-eating-uk-europe-migration-a7994786.html
Mefty - are you going to thank TJ for posting a link that proved your point and falsified his?
Actually it proved my point and showed how false his is
Polls clearly show an increasing number of people want a second referendum and that an increasing number want to remain. those are the simple facts. Far righties can falsify and misrepresent but the truth is clear.
They grabbed the ball and they've run right down the pitch with it.
An wiv the great repeal bill will change the rules so an own goals a win 🙁
Cant wait for 'The Great Brexit Scandal' movie to be made of this all tbh.
Should be a hell of a comedy.
the truth is clear
It is. And at least Mefty uses it.
I do love this idea that a one off vote settles UK policy for ever and cannot be changed.
Its especially fun when people claim its undemocratic not to consider it a one off choice. Which is odd considering the "you had the vote now you have one party" is a firm favourite of proto dicatorships who took the democratic rather than coup approach.
So Fox, flapping around because other WTO countries dont agree with our future quotas, no response, just hope!
Its like Mays intervention with TRump in the Bombardier Tarrif row... she managed to influence the penalty up from 220% to 300% 🙂
[url= https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20171012/281758449510882 ]A calm, rational and balanced view on Phillip Hammond from todays Daily Heil[/url]
They really are all mental! Looks like they're getting themselves worked up into another 'Enemies of the People' dummy-spitting frenzy
This afternoon we'll have groundhog day again as David Davis adopts his usual smug, self-satisfied simpleton face, and assures everyone that the latest round of talks has gone great, and everything is progressing nicely, while Michael Barnier looks on mystified and asserts that no progress has been made at all. Again
Daily Mail filter avoidance! BAN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😛
The people who voted to take your kids rights off them.
Remember guys, their vote counts the same as yours, that's democracy!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-41584532/the-truth-about-hate-crime-and-brexit
Things are going well then lol
Barnier says EU and UK have reached 'deadlock' over money, which is 'very disturbing'
And the pound has gone into freefall again in response.
Brilliant!
Remember guys, their vote counts the same as yours, that's democracy!
Whilst there were no doubt some deeply unpleasant incidents, there appears to have only been a very short time spike. However, the media can give the wrong impression when they looking to back up statistics. For instance, the widely reported murder of a Pole in Harlow which was originally assumed to be evidence of a hate crime, turned out, during the rather less widely reported trial, to be nothing of the sort.
No wonder Dominic Cummings deleted his Twitter account, Farage has legged it , the brexies in gov are rounding on Hammond.
Seems thick as mince Davis is struggling
Davis seems to be in different meetings to everyone else.
They must be the ones that go on exclusively in his head
I'm starting to think that, though not stating so publically, these lunatics are deliberately scuppering any chance of a deal, so that in the resulting carnage as we crash out, they can use all the new powers they've given themselves, and we'll repeatedly be hearing the phrase
"we are left with simply no option but to......"
followed by a long list of previously unthinkable policies that ultra right wing lunatics have been fantasising about for decades.
They're deliberately engineering a crisis
They're deliberately engineering a crisis
I'm coming to the conclusion that this is indeed the case.
I've the (rather hopeful) feeling that they want to demonstrate how much of a car crash its going to be in order to get the mouth breathers back on board.
Whilst there were no doubt some deeply unpleasant incidents, there appears to have only been a very short time spike.
watch the film.
besides which mefty my point was about the masked interviewees having the power to decide my future.
It's in the government's interest (though not the rest of us) for talks to fail and there be no deal.
If the public is left thinking that the problems we will face post-brexit were caused by EU inflexibility then it makes the Tories 'electable' beyond the end of A50.
It also gives them so many opportunities to distract from their incompetence that led to the referendum in the first place and continue to with austerity.
[tinfoil] Maybe all of this stuff with Boris and Co is an elaborate part of their wider strategy? [/tinfoil]
watch the film.
I did, there is nothing in it which contradicts my point, which is essentially one should have a sense of proportion, which I appreciate is somewhat heretical on here.
besides which mefty my point was about the masked interviewees having the power to decide my future.
This is much more the forum's cup of tea.
They're deliberately engineering a crisis
It looks like they've had a read of the Shock Doctrine 🙁
Lawson calling for Hammond to be sacked now
......... rats in a sack
All because Hammond wont spend money on preparing for a hard Brexit, surely Lawson knows the cost of setting up new customs & border checks would be huge, the ideology of the Brexies is rather scary
It looks like they've had a read of the Shock Doctrine
Indeed. It went well during the banking crisis. I fear that that was just the dress rehearsal. The result will be the same. The people who instigate the carnage will just walk away having done very nicely out of it, leaving the 'little people' to pick up the pieces
the ideology of the Brexies is rather scary
I think of it more of a cult than an ideology. These lunatics are absolute zealots who are determined to do it as some kind of proof of faith, despite all logic and evidence pointing to the insanity of it. And as we can see with Hammond, anyone blaspheming by calling it into question, or failing to swear a true alliegence is shouted down as a heretic
It's a continuation of blame everything on the EU. That way it gives them a excuse to do what ever they want
It's a continuation of blame everything on the EU. That way it gives them a excuse to do what ever they want
it also gives them the "It's their fault" excuse because they wouldn't give us our cake and let us eat it.
‘I thought the best option was to remain, I haven’t changed my mind on that’
- Jeremy Corbyn.
The UK has to make the EU think we will walk away. Otherwise they will not negotiate properly, This is brinkmanship on both sides - who blinks first?
They need to bang their heads together and get down to negotiating future trading relationships. This willy waving isn't going to get us very far.
Pretty sad really when our livelihoods are at stake but that typifies both parties involved.
The basic problem dear THM is that an awful lot of the UK, and indeed a lot of parliament and the government, don’t really want to negotiate because they don’t want to leave.
Now you can say there was a vote, or we're leaving, until you’re blue in the face, but it doesn’t change the fact that we, as a nation, are at best halfhearted about this simply because we are indeed half hearted about it.
For a successful Brexit a consensus had to be built that supported the result of the vote. Nobody has shown much interest in that.
Or in other words, the vote was the start of the UK deciding what to do, and too many people have treated it as the end of the decision.
Pretty sad really when our livelihoods are at stake but that typifies both parties involved.
Quite right. We shouldn't rely on politicians to run our affairs.
Engineers would do a far better job. 😉
Iain Duncan Smith has just been on channel 4 news.
He's saying everything is fine
The man is a complete imbecile
If he thinks it's fine, then we are truly ****ed!
Well that's the thing, us leaving will sting the EU and will cause them to have to make adjustments they'd really rather not..
But us, it will really hurt, we've barely got over the last recession and we are plunging ourselves into and even bigger badder one.
We know this, the EU know this, the EU aren't going to self harm themselves as some sort of good will gesture by cutting us a deal, they have absolutely no motives or compulsion to do so.
the EU will dictate the terms of departure and we can like it or walk away even worse of, doubly worse off if we flounce as in the world stage it will be obvious what ****s we're being and that will make WTO trade negotiations very difficult, yes well get trade agreements but it with no international feeling of trust, they will be stacked very much against our interests.
Engineers would do a far better job.
When John Harvey Jones was chairman of ICI he was very keen to take on engineers in senior management roles. I'm not referring to the bloke who fixes your spin drier though.
Structured failure-
1. Blame nasty EU
2. Tighten belts poor people
3. We are all in this together
4. Remember Dunkirk
The UK has to make the EU think we will walk away.
If the UK team continues as it is the EU will be begging the UK to walk away. So far UK politiciens have spent their time telling the UK population that they seek to gain (unfair)advantage. They've also produced papers to show they intend to make life difficult for EU citizens in the UK, create a customs evasion system through Ireland, and in no way honour their part of EU debt.
26 heads of state have to sign a deal that is acceptable to their their citizens or refuse to sign, the alternative is losing their next election.
I'm not referring to the bloke who fixes your spin drier though
Me either! 😆
Any chance of a military coup? Looking like an attractive option every time you glance at the talents of HM government and opposition.
Well we were told in work today that the government has assured the uni that we will be able to keep applying for H2020 grants (via the transition period, presumably) and that they intend to be part of the next 7 year science program too.
of course that means we'd have to be paying in to the EU budgets in some form post transition.
Which I suppose is why Hammond is not bothering to plan for a no deal.
Its a very confusing mess
seek to gain (unfair)advantage. They've also produced papers to show they intend to make life difficult for EU citizens in the UK, create a customs evasion system through Ireland, and in no way honour their part of EU debt.
Crap day on the trains, so good that we can allays rely on Ed to post some comic observations
Even by your standards those comments are "fantastic"
we've barely got over the last recession and we are plunging ourselves into and even bigger badder one.
Neither correct, but don't worry
We know this, the EU know this, the EU aren't going to self harm themselves as some sort of good will gesture by cutting us a deal, they have absolutely no motives or compulsion to do so.
The EU has strong motivations to avoid a hard Brexshit. They know it, we know it. They aren't go to self harm either.
This is just extended foreplay 😉
You haven't read Barnier's coments on the talks this week, THM. That's his summary of why there is no progress.
The governments contradictory position on what happens to EU citizens post brexit has definitely had an effect, their own website contradicts itself on how and if eu citizens can become permanent residents, its certainly upset quite a few european colleagues, several have already left.
The atmosphere whipped up by brexit & subsequently pushed by the Tories looking very unpleasant to them.
Del - Member
I'm not referring to the bloke who fixes your spin drier though
Me either!
I think you might meant folk like me. Not sure that’s a good idea.
The EU has strong motivations to avoid a hard Brexshit.
Give me at least two then as "motivations" is plural. I'm sure I can think of a lot more reasons for saying "bon débarass".
"Think"? That's twice now 😉
And an example of the "strong motivations" of the EU to avoid a hard Brexit. Put up or shut up.
Hmmmmmm.........
Ed why you bothering ? he is just a troll these days. Perhaps he always was but he is never going to add any substance to his claims he is only going to patronise and goad you.
How much more evidence do you need of this?
I like the way he moans about how folk have driven Jamby from this thread and then he does the type of thing he would be outraged about if it was done to he mate. Its not worth the effort as he will patronise us all without our input - though I do at least get a free pass. I think its probably the nicest punishment I have ever had.
And an example of the "strong motivations" of the EU to avoid a hard Brexit
In fairness it is against their interests. Its just that it would be even more against their interests to pander to the random whims of whichever tory is in charge of the toy box today.
Of course it's against their interests.
That goes without saying
we've barely got over the last recession and we are plunging ourselves into and even bigger badder one.
THM- Neither correct, but don't worry
Really..well we know what happened in 2008, what would you hazard is causing the current slump? Any takers?
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So its against their interests but they are strongly motivated to achieve it
I am now as confused as you are about the EU.
Thankfully he ignores me so i dont get patronised for being stupidfor highlighting his contradictions
Anyway enough feeding from me