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this road we're kicking the can down..... how long is it actually?
Whoah! The important thing is which [b]side[/b] of the road we are kicking it down.
Is it the red, white and blue, land of hope and glory, thin red line, chest-puffing left hand side, or the snidey, surrender-monkey, backstabbing, devious right hand side (also known as the 'wrong' side)?
Upon such distinctions doth the future of the nation depend.
THM I want my ****ing unicorn and it's in your best interests to give it to me sharpish.
I imagine the express/mail/telegraph will be saying it's great.
Even they know a transition is essential, so (rather than admit that brexit was a silly idea) they'll pretend it's what they wanted all along.
Maybot did make a fair few concessions in there, suddenly deciding that ECJ can influence UK courts even managing to say she liked EU workers!
And of course we will keep paying in -no longer with any say on how it's spent, obvs.....
All in a pretty big admission of our weak position,
Still asking EU to be 'creative' coz she can't sell EEA & Canada options to the UK that Brexies & the torries have been selling fantasy Brexit to, was pretty cheeky.
thecaptain - Member
THM I want my **** unicorn and it's in your best interests to give it to me sharpish.
Ironically it's world rhino day today, which is like an uglier, greyer version of a unicorn, but u won't be getting one of them either
I want my unicorn [b]NOW!!!![/b]
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Maybe the big cunning plan is to add two years to the transition timetable, every year.
On the plus side Farage doesn't seem very happy so every cloud and all that... 🙂
Not sure it is coincidence but not a single boy was registered with the name of Nigel last year in the UK 🙂
It's like some kind of sick nightmare. 🙁
pondo - Member
It's like some kind of sick nightmare.POSTED 19 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
It [b]is[/b] a sick nightmare except we seemingly can't wake up from this one. And we actively wished for it (or enough idiots did).
"It is like watching a nation busily building its own funeral pyre" to badly quote Enoch Powell. That should outrage a few of our resident fascists as well.
Just consider the absolute mountain of extra work we now have to do for absolutely no reason. Who's going to be doing it all? Who's going to pay their salaries?
What won't get done or funded because people are busy working on fixing a mess we created for no reason?
Read some of the comments on the express site this afternoon.. Quite amusing, they are utterly frothing calling may a traitor, the 'people have spoken' comments get trotted out about every 6th comment. Still.
Calls for Jacob rees mog to be PM, although the best one from today, apparently this transitional period will lead to an invasion of Africans.
I'd quite like to be angry about what they are saying, but truth is they are so absurd it's proving difficult.
I can't wait to hear Jamba Rees Mogg's spin on the Maybots speech...
😆
hardcore Brexit toys well out of the pram over May's speech. so it's achieved something.
Rees Mogg would have expected Mrs May to have given birth to WTO tariffs as Brexit was conceived at the point of referendum.
There is not two ounces of s**t for brains among any of them, i can only assume that the Tory sociopath gene has been fully distributed.
THM you are not required to hold the Jamba post in his/her absence.
We have a winner.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/22/florence-machine-maybot-theresa-may-brexit-speech
Brexit - going going .....
As I have said previously it's a lost deal , no sale, delete it from both prospects and pipeline.
The only question now is... who pulls the plug ?
Theresa or Jeremy (maybe Keir ?)
why was it in Florence if no one apart from british people attended ?
Milton Keynes was booked solid, apparently.
Milton Keynes is a no-no.
Too many roundabouts. Too much chance of a u-turn.
Brexit - going going .....As I have said previously it's a lost deal , no sale, delete it from both prospects and pipeline.
The only question now is... who pulls the plug ?
Theresa or Jeremy (maybe Keir ?)
describe the mechanism by which you think this is going to happen please .... because I want to believe you, but I don't.
at some point, the govt would have to rescind A50 and the 27 agree to it. I just can't see it.
cchris2lou - Member
why was it in Florence if no one apart from british people attended ?POSTED 8 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Safe distance, so the reek of bullshit and political death might not make it back here. No chance.
People who read the Express and Mail are hateful. As in full of hate. Small people with small cocks* and small minds finding some kind of belonging with similarly awful people.
*Lots of women as well - usually entitled types who've married money and don't want their hard [b]"earned"[/b] (wink-wink) cash to go to waste.
I love this country. And hate what it has come to represent as a result of this nonsense.
Mk is Corbyn country !
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Must admit the frothing of the betrayed brexies calling for Maybot's head on Twitter, Facebook etc has been most amusing today!
She used up every deserted airfield and empty warehouse in the UK during her election campaign, so they've resorted to throwing darts at a map of the world to see where they can go where they're sure not to encounter any actual voters
The next announcement about there not being any grammar schools after all is booked for a beech hut in Papua New Guinea
Boris and the rest of them are being flown over in the back of an RAF Hercules and thrown out the back like the shittest aid drop ever
at some point, the govt would have to rescind A50 and the 27 agree to it. I just can't see it.
There is absolutely nothing to prevent it I seem to recall.
you're right - but what's going to make them do it?
at some point, the govt would have to rescind A50 and the 27 agree to it.
I really don't see a refusal, it wouldn't require unanimity and I don't see a problem getting 55% representing 65% of the population on board even if it ever came to a vote which I doubt it would.
Question is whether the govt could ever bring itself to vote for it. Would be hard to stomach after all they've said over the months and years. Indefinite delay and transition may turn out to be the most plausible route, even though it's unquestionably shitter than the status quo (pre-ref when we still did things like take the presidency in turn).
The foaming at the mouth 'betrayal!!!' of the hard-of-thinking Brexit nutjobs on Twitter is hilarious!! 😆
I'm following the wrong people.
Question is whether the govt could ever bring itself to vote for it.
Yeah there's the rub.
I'm following the wrong people.
Aaron Banks.
you're right - but what's going to make them do it?
Nothing, they stand to make too much money from trashing the economy. The tories have a one off chance to do what they really want, to rule un-opposed. If things get messy declare a state of emergency ad rely on the more extreme elements in the military to do their duty. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41241153 seen plenty of comments from people who claim to be former soldiers espousing similar views.
Just put #florencespeech into twitter and enjoy. The Maybot has managed to please absolutely nobody. Inevitable I suppose
Just put #florencespeech into twitter and enjoy. The Maybot has managed to please absolutely nobody.
My word there are some angry people out there, no wonder Gina miller needed police protection!
More worryingly some don't have a clue what Brexit entails
!My word there are some angry people out there, no wonder Gina miller needed police protection
Question Time was exactly like this last night, brexitters still not understanding why we are paying anything at all. Even the EU membership they don't get.
It's so black and white to them. Ahem.
run along and let your betters deal with the difficult decisions.
.
Autocorrect turned #florencespeech to #flounce speech when searching Twitter.
Somehow seems more appropriate!
https://notthetreasuryview.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/citizens-rights-will-theresa-may-keep.html
interesting take on Mays speech, did she really mean what she said?
two good quotes from twitter
'I could have written a better speech by dragging my scrotum across the keyboard'
and
'No speech is better than a bad speech'
The best thing May could do now is resign and nominate Boris as her chosen successor.
"Right, you ****er, you sort this out. ****."
Or words to that effect.
[quote=binners ]The foaming at the mouth 'betrayal!!!' of the hard-of-thinking Brexit nutjobs on Twitter is hilarious!!
What a load of snowflakes.
Though I mostly seem to be getting remainers saying her speech was rubbish when I search - it appears my echo chamber is blocking the other stuff.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/may-makes-generous-offer-to-remain-in-reality-for-further-two-years-20170922136280 ]Nicely summarised by the Mash[/url]
😀
More worryingly some don't have a clue what Brexit entails
They would feel quite at home here then
Speech msde - boxes ticked - next steps...
All moving along.
Mogg is on Newsnight, complaining about … well, all of it really.
All moving along.
To where, nothing substantive, just kicking the can a couple of years down the road.
And either May is lying or she is happy to see EU citizens keep the same rights they have as now....
So make your choice.
He's worried about the delay in poor people getting the, er, benefits they're expecting when we leave. Mogg that is.
Mogg was looking very glum on newsnight, funniest thing I've seen in ages.
If he wasn't so shit scared of being PM a leadership challenge would be on the cards
Gonna be some very grumpy brexies tomorrow morning...
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Mogg has Mills to build and Pits to dig, them chimmneys don't sweep themselves - no wonder he is upset.
Frankie Boyle on a very dark and bleakly funny state of affairs.
[url= https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=850318501816181&id=100005141178530 ]Long Rant[/url]
That's excellent from Frankie Boyle. 😀
So do we reckon that Boris's ego will allow him not to take advantage of the brexiteers righteous fury at this betrayal?
No chance!
I'm sure his minions are presently scurrying around pointing out his Telegraph article as an alternative manifesto and gathering the requisite 15% of signatures for his leadership bid
The closer the govt gets to coalescing around a concrete plan, the more in-fighting we'll see in the Tory party.
Can't wait.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/22/florence-machine-maybot-theresa-may-brexit-speech
/p>
Headline fail !
Conservative MP just on 5 Live was scary, contradicting himself in the same sentence. Apparently we have the EU over a barrel 😯
The Maybot wants the closest and most cooperative relationship possible with Europe.
Shoot me down, but didn't we already have that?
Yes but that basis of our relationship is changing. We had a vote about it recently
teamhurtmore - Member
Yes but that basis of our relationship is changing. We had a vote about it recently
Did we, how could anybody have forgotten, probably time to dust of the list of objectives and make sure they are all ticked?
Hang on they were mostly contradictory and involving unicorns.
Objectives?
I think we were going to give lots of money to the NHS and definitely stay in the SM
Are those someone else's hands in the telegraph photo?
Oh yeah unicorns
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That vote we had recently...
1.2m was the swing to leave, so wjen the deal is put on the table in 2021 do we all not have the right to say yes or No? Or do we have to abide by the 1.2m swing?
The above applies no matter what you view is? Democracy is not a one shot option? That's monarchy or a junta
All I'm picking up is the subliminal History Challenges Future part not sure what it means but it doesn't sound good and probably involves Dr Who. Actually speaking of the Dr, perhaps Peter Capaldi could actually head to the real Downing St now he is free and deliver a Tucker style wake up call to them all.
6 Months in and nothing achieved.
18 Months to come up with something, who is hopeful apart from T(H)M?
Someone on here asked a page or two ago how the plug will be pulled on Brexit, it already has via the 2 year transition, the steady match towards a single market/customs union continues - the two years will get extended to 3 or 4 and the next GE will arrive, the Tories withRees Mogg and Boris at the helm will have even less appeal, labour will capitalise on this and campaign on a Norway style deal - this will be supported by business as it provides the sensible option for trade and FOM. Labour will win that election and the Tories may slide into short term obscurity (average supporter age will be 80 at this point)
1.2m was the swing to leave
No, 600,000.
I like to see it this way - 33 people in a room, 16 go to each wall, the one left in the middle, probably mis-informed thinking their health service will get more money, or just doing a "protest vote", gets to make the call.
It's that fine.
Will of the people my ****.
Someone on here asked a page or two ago how the plug will be pulled on Brexit
That was me. The think is, we've left when the transition starts not when it ends.
This also assumes the EU agree to the transition, which basically means we get a 2 year head-start on competing with them. That's by no means certain.
I can see also though it may work for the EU as it allows more orderly moving of the supply lines, car factories, banking jobs, brain drain etc onto EU turf. Better than being rushed. The fabled death of 1,000 cuts for the UK.
perhaps I'm just a bit of a pessimist.
but I don't buy the "relax it'll all work out OK in the end". I'd point people thinking that way to read some history, it can all go horribly wrong.
That was me. The think is, we've left when the transition starts not when it ends.This also assumes the EU agree to the transition, which basically means we get a 2 year head-start on competing with them. That's by no means certain.
Head start or sort out all of the mess? As Macron was saying today
The UK must provide more clarity about its negotiating position on Brexit, the French president has said.
Emmanuel Macron said the issues of EU citizens' rights, the exit bill and the Irish border question must be settled before talks could be held on trade.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41369600
The border probably being one of the hardest to sort and they want it sorted first.
So a good chance that in 2019 the UK still doesn't know how it will be trading with the EU or ROW, more uncertainty, more hesitation in investment etc.
Just remember the types that are hovering in the background of all this
But backbench MP Jacob Rees-Mogg criticised the PM's stance on freedom of movement - saying it should end in March 2019 - offering the union money, and the role of the European Courts of Justice on Britain.
He told BBC Newsnight it was a "red line" if the UK was still subject to the ECJ after March 2019. If it was, "we have not left the European Union", he said.
Between him, Farage and a few others they are going to start beating every drum as loud as they can.
Yesterday just seemed like another piece of colonial style arrogance to me. Just dressed up in a slightly more conciliatory, moderately less confrontational tone.
However you dress it up, it still amounted to issuing a list of demands, and then just blithely assuming you're going to get them
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/22/theresa-may-speech-brexit-prime-minister-florence ]Marina Hyde hits the nail on the head more often than most [/url]
[i]santa's ****ing dead![/i]
Great article this bit...
For the past few months, May’s messaging strategy has been predicated on the fact that the EU doesn’t have the internet. Thus you can spend a year being as rude and dismissive about them as you like for the benefit of the media back home, then fly to Europe and smilingly urge them to “be creative”, and everyone will take kindly to it.To call the speech optimistic didn’t really cover it. Many of the lines had the flavour of something you’d say if you were leaving your wife of 40 years for a Babestation presenter who’d once read out one of your texts. This period could be remembered “not for a relationship that ended, but a new partnership that began”. Well, I mean … it COULD be. If you’re drinking Bacardi. (Incidentally, my favourite story of the week suggested that civil servants in David Davis’s department are so concerned about the lack of preparation for a no-deal scenario that they have begun writing emails stating the perils, to cover their backs in preparation for the inevitable Chilcot-style inquiry when it all goes tits up.)
Also the last bit about brexies expecting a cakewalk, is very true, all the frothing and outrage on Twitter is because people believed it would be quick and easy, Mogg last night was paralysed because his lies have been exposed.
ICYMI, Moody's downgrades UK again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41369239
Faisal Islam says "... this is the first ever time a major rather has cut us to third rank"
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/911460452315561985
If some vaguely left political party makes sensible noises about immigration they will be in and this whole thing would go away.
EU politicians turned down invite to Florence so journalist given passes at last minute to prevent empty seats as she was faced with at the UN...
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/grossbritannien-briten-wollen-freunde-bleiben-1.3679177!amp
mikewsmith - Member
Did we, how could anybody have forgotten,
Extraordinary isn't it
BTW I am not hopeful. Merely pragmatic and less pessimtic - oh and I respect the democratic process. Unpopular as that position is these days
This issue raises very many questions about the democratic process to my mind, biased media influence chief among them. The generational divide raises many questions too, the ability of the old to decide the future of the young against their will too.
Watch the Adrian Chiles doc and hear what those leave voters say ("lots of little shops", "6 kids social housing, can't get a job that pays because of the Polish"). Or that one from Doncaster where the woman's voting leave because she's angry about the 80s miner's strike.
These people are deciding our kids' futures.
(I wish I had good answers).
Don't forget how folk stil harped back to the poll tax when it came to the Indy [s]diatrirbes[/s] debates
But the media point is valid. There are v few options for neutral analysis
The silly papers and the Torygraoh abuse facts one way and the remoaning rags the other. The there is bloody kuensberg and her crap in the Beeb.
Bloody difficult to find a balanced view. My tennis partner was suggesting the times this morning but I find it hard to financially support the dirty digger.
FT is only mildly biased albeit it with a pro Eu bias
oh and I respect the democratic process.
In which case you'll be fully aware that in the Westminster democratic system this was merely an advisory referendum with no more weight than a Bake Off vote.
[b]Media:[/b] FT the only paper worth reading on this… Guardian and Times have both been surprising poor. You expect the others to do what they do.
[b]Democracy: [/b]Let's vote on a real alternative to EU membership… any single alternative… I'd prefer EEA, but Brexitiers can knock their heads together to try and find consensus on another alternative, if they are capable of doing so … not multiple contradictory plans that haven't even been sketched out, never mind fleshed out.
Gotta have a free press, but power brings responsibility.
Everyone has to have a say, our ancestors struggled to achieve that.
Millions of people are happy with the result (tho many less than voted for it I feel).
Hard circle to square.
e fully aware that in the Westminster democratic system this was merely an advisory referendum with no more weight than a Bake Off vote.
At least humour hasn't died 😀
Left off the Evening Standard which has descended into the abyss as gideons gobshite