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Yep EIB has awarded billions across Europe to univesities and here in the UK, Oxford, UCL, Edinburgh etc
http://www.ed.ac.uk/news/2016/eib-230216
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0416/280416-european-investment-bank
http://www.eib.org/infocentre/press/releases/all/2017/2017-206-investment-plan-for-europe-eur-30m-loan-from-eib-for-university-of-latvia-campus-development
list of all 1410 projects theyve helped fund in the UK
http://www.eib.org/projects/loan/list/?region=1&country=GB
please tell me which ones you think are a waste ?
social housing, education, power, water transport infrastructure?
its almost as if they think that education is a worthy investment...
Well we fixed that eh? Losers.
Japan - the one we will sign quickly after April 2019
Show me the evidence?
Evidence? Just look at his cheeky little smile. Don't you worry your pretty little head over it. Its all in hand
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Is fox about to be abducted by aliens?
^^^^
I think he was being rapturously filled with the spirit of Fatcha
If you, as a keen cyclist were put in charge of banning cycling would you ...
A. Ban every bit of cycling from the land ...or
B. Try and wangle through us much pro cycling legislation
as humanly possible?
Surely as an ardent remainer Enola should be delivering as soft a brexit as possible.
Does that evil ****ing slut **** bitch have any position that she won't flip on.
How can she be trusted with anything?
I think we've long since established that none of the present shower can be trusted with anything other than their own greed and self-advancement.
Does that evil * slut * bitch
dont hold back!
try & keep it at least moderately civil
how about answering more pressing issues like the Irish border ?
still nothing Jambalaya ?
Is liam Fox about to do some backflips?
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try & keep it at least moderately civil
I always thought the scousers were a bit out of line with all the parties when thatcher died.
My apologies have been sent north and I'm keeping my fridge well stocked for the day the Zombie Maygot departs this world.
On the other question though come 2019, there is a GE and one party see's the problems and says we will cancel the process and remain in the EU. Would you vote for them? Would it be democratic?
If that was their only policy then probably not. And no.
Obviously a hypothetical question as it won't happen, but the choice with the LDs last time was closest in reality. TBH, there are no parties that I vote positively for, and last time it was very much a process of elimination. Who do I least dislike/distrust. I am waiting for the party that commits to reducing their involvement in life and the allocation of scarce resources. Hence with the EU, the appeal to me is the single market and the core four freedoms. The negatives are the the beaucracy that accompanies them and the ultimate folly - the €. Not that this was our problem despite what the Brexshiteers used to claim.
IGM, not sure why you have started making up what people say in order to argue against it. Not your normal style. But to the other questions, yes thanks. Two weeks in California including lots of hiking in Yosemite. Apart from the odd pockets of mega affluence and conspicuous consumption (Pebble Beach) the US had a beaten up feel to it outside the natural majesty. San Fran especially so. San Jose airport is nice though. A nation in decline.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/gary-nevilles-commentary-on-the-brexit-negotiations-20170829134834 ]Gary Neville has his say[/url]
THM - not making it up, just trying to summarise and understand your position, which is I think somewhat ambiguous at best. However feel free to point out where I'm wrong, I'm just trying to understand where your coming from.
Yosemite - lovely. Last time I was there I took a 1930s 120 rollfilm camera, red filters and a stack of FPan. Swine to use but when you get it right, photos you feel you could walk into.
I love San Francisco too, but I know what you mean about a nation in decline - it's probably where we were about 40-60 years ago as our global significance departed and we looked round for a way to be great again - for us of course it was... ah wait a minute I'm probably not meant to say that.
Downloading all the photos later - Sentinel Point at sunset and Nevada Falls at dawn (on way up H Dome) were highlights.
Positions clear: crass idea => argue/vote for remain => accept and move on => negotiate very hard => stand up to EU bullying => anticipate the next version of EU when it arrives => get on with work.
I appreciate it's clear to you, but not so much to me.
I think I get most of it apart from the negotiate hard bit.
Negotiate for what exactly; what would a good or acceptable deal look like? And remember Negotiation 101 - there have to be two winners in a bipartite negotiation otherwise both sides will loose eventually.
So simple question on your view point.
Do we have to leave (I think you think yes) and what does leave mean?
If for example, we "left" and remained in the single market and customs union, maintaining the 4 freedoms, with or without club subs, would that be acceptable?
PS - never been up HD.
I did make it to the bottom of the Grand Canyon one time (out of three) and that's worth doing, but not beautiful.
What's the walk up like?
Renault own Nissan
except that it doesn't - I hope the rest of your 'facts' are more accurate...
TurnerGuy - it effectively does. Hence why all the senior European Nissan guys I meet are based in Paris (and carry both Nissan and Renault branded stuff). Mitsubishi is part of the same set up too.
The Alliance is a strategic partnership based on the rationale that, due to substantial cross-shareholding investments, each company acts in the financial interest of the other—while maintaining individual brand identities and independent corporate cultures. Renault currently has a 43.4 percent (fully voting) stake in Nissan, and Nissan holds a 15 percent (non-voting) stake in Renault effectively giving Renault control.
Wikipedia
906 pages!
What a strange year it's been of British mass debating.
TurnerGuy - it effectively does. Hence why all the senior European Nissan guys I meet are based in Paris (and carry both Nissan and Renault branded stuff). Mitsubishi is part of the same set up too.
Renault own Dacia, what spare capacity does Dacia have? Would provide an EU site with cheap labour within the customs union.
They compete internally on each new model as I understand it. Extra tariffs work against Sunderland but £:€ parity will work in Sunderland's favour. Sunderland is also very efficient (UK workers seem to be when they have foreign management - I should worry about that on a personal basis).
Whether Brexit is good or bad for Sunderland depends on supply chains, raw materials and where the pound goes longer term.
TurnerGuy - it effectively does.
'effectively does' is not the same as 'does'
Agreed. But in this case its close enough.
igm - Member
I appreciate it's clear to you, but not so much to me.
I can't do much about that. I can't make it any clearer.
And remember Negotiation 101 - there have to be two winners in a bipartite negotiation otherwise both sides will loose eventually.
That's the bit the EU historically don't get and don't want to get this time in case others vote to leave
So simple question on your view point. Do we have to leave (I think you think yes)
We are leaving. That's simple too.
and what does leave mean?
Ending membership of the European Union.
If for example, we "left" and remained in the single market and customs union, maintaining the 4 freedoms, with or without club subs, would that be acceptable?
Neither side have put this scenario on the table, for obvious reasons. Both sides have opened with positions that don't work. From there they - or at least we - will negotiate. So there may be/will be compromises. I have no idea what they will be. But we can pretty sure, what you have laid out will not happen.
My own position is in the minority, so cannot happen. I can live with that though, it's part of living in a democracy. Sometimes it can be tough, but that's life. Deal with it....
Didn't ask if it was on the table, would it meet your definition of leaving?
PS - "Ending membership of the European Union" is ambiguous in itself. There is a fairly clinical definition, but joining EFTA (if they'd have us) lies within that and many wouldn't feel we'd left in that situation.
On the contrary, that is the only bit that is definitive. It's also what we are doing.
The only ambiguity lies in the form of access that we will have to the single market and vice versa once we have left - either in 3/19 or at the end of the transition period (not that this really matters as much as this week's headlines would have us believe)
There are essentially four "off the shelf" versions of access as we/I have discussed many times earlier. We prefer to have a bespoke deal that has some of the characteristics of each of these (especially two of them) and the EU doesn't not want to grant this to us for obvious reasons. This is the only source of ambiguity as we do not know what the outcome will be. Hence the negotiations. It really is very simple, other than the details.
But we will have given up membership whatever happens. We had a referendum on that issue.
EU doesn't not want to grant this to us for obvious reasons.
You've lost me here between double negatives and the reasons not being obvious enough to spring to mind. I'm not sure who "we" refers to either or what a "bespoke" deal comprises as you don't state the characteristics that make up such a deal. You're sounding just like a pro-Brexit politician, THM, lots of words to say nothing at all.
Never mind
If it's not obvious why the EU doesn't not want to give us what we want, then we should leave it there.
But I don't understand what you want, THM. Four possibilities and a bespoke deal being the best combination of characteristics from all four, which are?
Jeez, I don't get how people are now blaming the democratic EU for protecting the interests of the members.
Given the UK are being really vague and belligerent about the whole thing.. Put yourself In thier shoes.. They've been pretty damn reasonable so far. asking questions like what TF we are doing, and why aren't we engaged in any negotiations in any meaningful way
...and until you provide a solution to the problem without an answer, then we will not negotiate on trade
(Masterful non-negotiation)
And we respond with a grinning idiot who's more interested in sucking the arms off his spectacles than he is in global politics.
Let's say you have a £1500 slate in your gentleman's club, THM. You then decide to quit the club but would like to go back there for a drink now and then as a guest. What do you think they're going to ask you to do before considering whether they'll let you drink there again and under what conditions? That's right, clear your slate.
What's your point? There is no disagreement on clearing the skate as you put it.
The only issue is what is on the slate and how that balances with the credit that has also been supplied to "the club".
The point is the UK government are not engaged in any meaningful discussions, you can't leave 'the club' and then dictate you're re admission whilst dictating new club rules.
That's not what is happening, but carry on.
£1500 net, we've done our sums. Pay up or the door man will keep turning you away. Pay up and we'll consider letting you in in future as a paying guest.
What is your point? persisiting with an inaccurate analogy adds neither value nor clarity to the debate and lacks the humour of the boycott to sabotage proposal
Go home THM, that attitude is of no help to anybody.
Neither is making things up/complexity missing the point (deliberately or otherwise) - as you both are doing. Traditionally that is left to Brexshiteers. They are much better at it too.
It really is very simple, other than the details.
> rolls eyes <
But I don't understand what you want, THM
For his investment to pay off?
The clock is ticking as the EU well know so their Penelope tactic (pace Varoufakis) is highly effective, and our counter move of not showing up is looking a bit foolish.
Unfortunately we want everything the EU have to offer, but need to pretend to want none of it. Tricky. We have allowed ourselves to be sucked into futile discussion on issues that could have been settled - the obvious example being the question of EU nationals. We could agree to do the right thing, it would cost nothing and we could move on. Instead we are hamstrung by xenophobia (as we now refer to it).
Of course the matter is not helped that the man in charge is The Grinning Idiot and his boss is so incompetent that they need a new word for incompetent. All going swimmingly then.
The only issue is what is on the slate and how that balances with the credit that has also been supplied to "the club".
Which should be solvable in a couple of hours! The EU has a number in mind, the UK should also have a number in mind, both should have an idea of what they regard as fair, pensions, assets, etc. Discuss, compromise and move on. Of all the discussion points it really is one of the easiest to deal with.
That the UK seems so inept on this point does not bode well for anyother issue.
[url= https://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2017/08/29/david-davis-replaced-brexit-negotiator-short-planks/ ]A change in UK negotiating strategy?[/url]
That the UK seems so inept on this point does not bode well for anyother issue.
Not inept, as such, just terrified of admitting it in public, in fear of their own swivel eyed MPs & voting brexies who've bought into the BS
Not inept, as such, just terrified of admitting it in public, in fear of their own swivel eyed MPs & voting brexies who've bought into the BS
It is their job. If they cant do it then they should resign.
The clock is ticking as the EU well know so their Penelope tactic (pace Varoufakis) is highly effective
Wait and see - brinkmanship can work both ways. But they are doing a great job at setting the narrative and fooling many Brits, that's true. The German CBI are less convinced, indeed rather worried about their sides tactics. They are not alone.
and our counter move of not showing up is looking a bit foolish.
True or made up?
Unfortunately we want everything the EU have to offer,
No we don't and never had. We have always wanted to cherry pick and we want to do the same now. They don't like that unsurprisingly.
We have allowed ourselves to be sucked into futile discussion on issues that could have been settled - the obvious example being the question of EU nationals. We could agree to do the right thing, it would cost nothing and we could move on. Instead we are hamstrung by xenophobia (as we now refer to it).
Yes and no. The media and many remoaners have swallowed the EUs opening gambit on sequencing. The UK rejected this and then acquiesced partially. The sensible and appropriate measure would be to have a bilateral agreement on the rights of nations' citizens - that would be easy, agreed.. Given the history of economic and social vandalism that the EU has bought to bear elsewhere, unilateral demonstrations of doing the so-called "right thing" would be folly in the extreme. The U.K. Gov's first priority should be to protect the rights of UK citizens. Bending over and being rogered by the EU is an abrogation of this responsibility and should neither be encouraged nor advocated.
Nissan announce increased Sunderland production amd a desire to substantially increase local sourcing of components. Mitigates the risk of tariffs and takes advantage of cheaper production costs associatwd with lower £.
Perfect sunmary from yesterday's Spectator
Every round of UK-EU talks reminds us why the European Union has never managed to agree any trade deal with any of its biggest trade partners. [b]Putting posturing before diplomacy is the EU’s great vice[/b]. At times, the officials in Brussels seem to judge success by how many times they can be rude to the British side, as if chiding them for respecting the results of a democratic referendum.
No posturing on the UK side, of course.
Given the history of economic and social vandalism that the [s]EU[/s] [u]ultra liberal right[/u] has bought to bear
The U.K. Gov's first priority should be to protect the rights of UK citizens.
The good news last night was that a good friend received her new French identity card in the post on Saturday. She's now a French citizen, and delighted that she can carry on her life as she pleases.
The sensible and appropriate measure would be to have a bilateral agreement on the rights of nations' citizens - that would be easy, agreed.. Given the history of economic and social vandalism that the EU has bought to bear elsewhere, unilateral demonstrations of doing the so-called "right thing" would be folly in the extreme. The U.K. Gov's first priority should be to protect the rights of UK citizens. Bending over and being rogered by the EU is an abrogation of this responsibility and should neither be encouraged nor advocated
The right thing is the right thing. Nothing to stop the UK govt also protecting the rights of UK citizens as well - it doesn't have to be a reciprocal right thing.
The "lets swallow the EU's financial demands up front" camp should step back and think (only three seconds required) what the financial implications for other EU nations of the UK withdrawal are and then imagine what their opening stance represents. Actuall only 1 second is required, if that....
Glad for your friend. Let's hope we can say the same thing for UK citizens too. Any examples of an ultra liberal right country in Europe - among the major nations, out of interest?
Nothing to stop the UK govt also protecting the rights of UK citizens as well - it doesn't have to be a reciprocal right thing
With friends like this, who needs enemies?
Don't forget who we are dealing with here. A body that is happy to create social and economic havoc on its own members for the same of political vanity.
The UK currently, THM.
Does anybody know any EU citizens living in the UK who have been granted a UK passport having applied on hearing the referendum result? Anyhow I have one concrete example of French authorities doing the right thing.
@tmh the EU's stance is obvious. They are truly desperate for money and know the only way they have any chance of getting us to pay money we don't legally owe is to try and force a climb down ahead of any trade discussions.
Best start climbing down now then, there won't be as far to fall.
Edukator applications for UK passports from EU citizens have doubled. I imagine the workload is substantial to process them. The UK has made a very generous offer to them but the EU has simply insulted it (and them). EU citizens living in the UK have no chance of being under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. It's a ludicrous request from the EU
I do feel for Dutch citizens who are unable to aplly for a Uk passport without giving up their Dutch one. Daft rule from the Dutch
EU's offer to UK citizens was better though Jamba wasn't it.
The UK has also terminated the permanent right to stay of any EU citizens who already held it. Told them to apply again - under some rules yet to be agreed.
Seems to be costing several grand to get UK residency/passport for some of my EU colleagues, shambolic lack of clarity from UK gov having major effect.
More than 50% of eu scientists at our place are leaving 2 leaving dos this week! A French & a German, German has got a short contract in UK, but her & hubby plan to return to Germany when h is contact is up.
French last is taking her English hubby back to France & he's gonna apply to live there.
Brexit achieving the goals of the little Englanders nicely !
The "lets swallow the EU's financial demands up front" camp should step back and think (only three seconds required) what the financial implications for other EU nations of the UK withdrawal are and then imagine what their opening stance represents. Actuall only 1 second is required, if that....
So what is the UK response? There must be a formula that the UK are happy to accept, they have had months to get to this point agreed? It is quite simple, the UK will either cover x or they won't. Exact sums involved will come out later. The fact that the UK is incapable of answering a very simple question points to the incompitence of the brexiteers and there cheer leaders.
You broke it fix you can fix it, you know what you want and you said it was oh so simple.
The U.K. Gov's first priority should be to protect the rights of UK citizens
Which is why they denied UK citizens the right to vote in the referendum in the first place. The UK government doesnt' give a F*** about anything but staying in power. Hence the mess we are in.
kimbers - Memberlittle Englanders
You literally can't help yourself, can you? 😆
Exact sums involved will come out later.
You have answered your own question
You have answered your own question
So why the discussions, the formula is known and we can move on.
You literally can't help yourself, can you?
its a talent!
If you think that calling people lil englanders that voted for brexit so they could get rid of foreigners is inacurate, please explain it to me, nice & simple
Edukator applications for UK passports from EU citizens have doubled.
I wonder why? Something about people desperate for certainty, in the absence of any meaningful reassurance by UK?
I imagine the workload is substantial to process them.
Could well be. And quite predictable. Poor planning by the Home Office.
The UK has made a very generous offer to them but the EU has simply insulted it (and them).
Nope - repeating Tory head office parrot fashion doesn't change the facts. The UK offer was inadequate and was quite properly rejected.
EU citizens living in the UK have no chance of being under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. It's a ludicrous request from the EU
Not ludicrous at all given the evident lack of credibility of the UK to treat foreigners fairly.
the formula is known
No it is not. Far from it. On top of that, the outcome will depend on fundamental political choices and compromised yet tbd. Only a fool would commit at this stage and our guys may not be great but they are not THAT foolish.
The fact that each side has such a wide range of estimates for the final amount indicates as clearly as imaginable that it is anything but a simple formula.
The HoL committee even confused that there is no legal obligation here, only a common sense one in terms of securing preferential trading relationships with EU in future, ergo, you negotiate both in tandem.
Not ludicrous at all given the evident lack of credibility of the UK to treat foreigners fairly.
Amazing that any of them want to cone or even stay here isn't I? Alternatively the accusation could be without basis, which is far more likely (indeed covered in parliamentary records if facts are deemed to be relevant to the debate at all)
Or you could be getting muddled up. People came for jobs or relationships. Until recently they could that without needing permission. Now that has all changed -read up on "freedom of movement".
Amazing that any of them want to cone or even stay here isn't I? Alternatively the accusation could be without basis
http://www.****/news/article-4518022/Australia-born-British-mum-branded-illegal-immigrant.html
etc etc etc
If you manage to keep out of it, as EU citizens have been able to there is no issue, now the incompitence matters.
well either reporting is getting better, or believing or just more hate
or all 3
now the incompitence matters.
As long as the UK remains a member state of the EU (ie now) it is subject to laws guaranteeing EU citizens the right to FOM throughout the union. This will continue until we leave. On top of that the June White Paper set out the proposals for the status and rights of EU citizens post Brexshit. Rather than scaremongering we have a duty to EU cons to stick to the facts on these issues. Telling lies for political expediency should be avoided at all costs, this is peoples' lives we are talking about.
Reading up on FoM confirms this.
So all the hate crime has occurred while we are members and while we have FoM guaranteed. I will leave you to determine what, if any, causation exists.
So all the hate crime has occurred while we are members and while we have FoM guaranteed. I will leave you to determine what, if any, causation exists.
Closet racists feel the power to be outside racists?
FOM is ending or perceived to be so they can tell people to **** off home
The campaign had a massive element of xenophobic* or racist* behaviours and encouraged people to put the UK first
*Depends on how sensitive the racists are about being called racists
As long as the UK remains a member state of the EU (ie now) it is subject to laws guaranteeing EU citizens the right to FOM throughout the union. This will continue until we leave.Reading up on FoM confirms this
Excellent - well done. Did your reading lead you to a view on what might happen after the UK ceases to be a member state of the EU?
So all the hate crime has occurred while we are members and while we have FoM guaranteed. I will leave you to determine what, if any, causation exists.
Before I rush off and do that, remind me what hate crime has to do with this?
So all the hate crime has occurred while we are members and while we have FoM guaranteed. I will leave you to determine what, if any, causation exists.
And growing up i was called a f***ing Paddy, racists are racists, the only thing that has changed replace Irish with Muslim and Polish. Brexit has allowed the racists to come out into the open and express their opinions. We have also gained a government that is racist and xenophobic that has empowered them still further. Being in the EU with all it entails prevented the racist scum from being open in their racism.
mrmo is bang on. The regulars in my local are unreconstructed UKIP voting racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted arseholes. Its why I don't go in my local anymore. Let's just say we had a frank exchange of views.
Be under no illusions, to them the Brexit result meant that 'they'd won!!!". They're actually stupid enough to somehow believe that this would also mean that the '****'s' and the '****s' (that's their words - they're also very vocal about them a well as the EU) would somehow be being sent home too*.
I would imagine they're pretty representative of the views of a large chunk of Brexiters, whether they're prepared to be as open about it. So... yes... hate crime has gone up. Somewhat inevitably
Why? Because the morons are 'winning', after decades of progress. They think they've put the country into reverse. That their toxic attitudes are having a renaissance 🙄
* I suspect they're in for a bit of a shock on this front