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philxx1975 - MemberAnd as others have said maybe they are realising it's time to stand on their own two feet rather than rely on handouts and overseas students.
Are there any other industries that you think should stand on their own two feet and stop relying on foreign customers?
Medical / Drug Authorization Authority is here because the expertise is mostly British
Nonsense I'm afraid. EMA experts are already planning to leave. The MHRA does a lot of the heavy lifting largely due to co-location in London, The other agencies are perfectly competent to do the same, see BfArM, for example in Germany.
What this exit will mean is that Pharma will need a separate Marketing Application for the UK (as is needed for Switzerland). Whether they can be bothered based on the market returns and NICE hurdles, will be another matter. Normally first applications are for US, EMA and more recently Japan. Others come later.
Are there any other industries that you think should stand on their own two feet and stop relying on foreign customers?
All of them, presumably. Hence brexit.
https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate/permanent-residence
interesting that the government appears to be resetting the residence rules.
really being welcoming.
If you already have a permanent residence document it won’t be valid after the UK leaves the EU.
From mrmo's link.
Does that really mean someone who has been here, say, 10 years, applied for and got permanent residence is going to have to apply all over again.
Really?
No wonder the Euros think we're being nasty over citizen's rights.
It's Brexit gone mad(der)
The government it / immigration systems will take 10+ years to process the eu residents in the UK if they all apply for permanent residence
No 10 contradicts Hammond over 'off-the-shelf' Brexit transition deal
Does that really mean someone who has been here, say, 10 years, applied for and got permanent residence is going to have to apply all over again.Really?
yep
thats what the scientist sitting next to me understands and theres contradictory adivce on teh gov website about how much they will be charged for all of this
Rudd is talking about a multi-£million new databse to record all their details, Im willing to bet they will try to recoup costs from EU citizens with some hefty fees
fine for jambs friends in finance, not so good for scientists on crappy wages!
most EU nationals here will not have applied for permanent residence no need.
Absolutely - but even so, that's just nasty.
most EU nationals here will not [b]yet[/b] have applied for permanent residence no need.
FTFY. Most of my EU colleagues are in the process of considering or doing just this. One had hers arrive on Friday. Bit of a kick in the teeth to say you'll have to do it again.
If you already have a permanent residence document it won’t be valid after the UK leaves the EU.
How on earth do you persuade, and arrange for, key EEA staff to stay here?
This country is being run by idiots… cheered on by idiots.
[i][ feel free to insert the words "xenophobic", "blinkered" and "myopic" in that last sentence as you see fit ][/i]
What would happen if all the EU citizens just refused to apply? If the government starts kicking them out, the country will collapse.
the government doesn't know who is here from the EU IIRC
Lived in the UK for 20 years and never applied for residency.
[quote=kimbers ]Rudd is talking about a multi-£million new databse to record all their details
I'm pleased to hear that, because large government databases are always a great success.
As an aside, seen the comments floating around about the acid attacks and the link to the government getting rid of red tape and the anti free-market rules entailed.
No, was it The Mash?
yes that is correct Blair stopped exit checks & obviously May gutted customs and border authorities as home sec. So we've got no way of knowing who's here.
tjagain - Member
the government doesn't know who is here from the EU IIRC
EU Directive 2004/38/EC allowed them to repatriate people without funds or having worked for 3months,
We've always had control, just never bothered to exercise it.
Rather than admit that the gov didn't care how many people came here, brexies joyously jumped on the xenophobia bandwagon with our beloved leveson ignoring rightwing press.
No, was it The Mash?
What's that got to do with Brexshit
Seems like some great leaps of faith - you might as well write how the tightening of gun and knife laws has contributed to the significant rise in related crimes. At last the EU is to blame for that *
* like much recent news, that is completely made up for effect
yep
and to administer the CAP payments, setting up our own food & agriculture standards committees , regional development grants etc etc, current suggestion is indeed to carry out trial to duplicate EMA work in the UK, which will be hugely expensive & time consuming, either costing gov. millions or increasing price of drugs
oh and duplicating Euratom, oh and will have to create a body & inspectors to certify our own aviation safety personel
then theres the new IT system to monitor EU citizens, and the new custons it system oh and LGAs have asked for guarantees that we will replicate the regional development fundall hail the bureaucracy of Brexit!
I can't see how they'll be able to set this up within a sensible timescale TBH.
The only thing I can think is the magic money tree will be shock and all these new agencies will be outsourced to to the private sector at vast expense.
Gotta laugh at dysentry (ah how appropriate is that auto complete) and his farm, why on earth would we subsidise when we can get food at rock bottom prices from our new best buds.
What's that got to do with Brexshit
getting rid of red tape, wasn't that one of the key arguments?
Shockingly it turns out that red tape is a good thing sometimes.
Oh I see, add it to the list then. Amazing that we won the test match today despite Brexshit.
Test match? What sport and who was playing?
Ladies cricket
I can't see how they'll be able to set this up within a sensible timescale TBH.
That's why there's all this talk of transitions - that have to end by the next election), because y'know clinging onto power is waaay more important than ****g up the economy.
There's also been this talk of 'implementation phase' which is the terrified Tories trying out a new phrase to see if it'll get past the rabid backbenchers & press to avoid the insane cliff edge they've backed us all onto
That's not a sport. You can play cricket while drinking a pint, putting it in with dominos, pool and darts.
Amazing that we won the test match today despite Brexshit.
Good job we haven't left yet, otherwise Kyle Abbott would probably have played and knocked us over.
(yes Brexit is even bad for cricket)
as I and others have repeatedly been stating EU workers are already leaving
This was a Tweet from "East Lancs Hospitals" earlier today:
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Damn those health tourists and immigrants who are a drain on the NHS.
Negotiations are quite straightforward,
Have you considered a career in politics? Seriously, you'll be minted, because literally no other politician (including David "moon [s]unit[/s] landing") Davis thinks that.
The only way it's straightforward is that we present a list of demands and the EU says "no." That's pretty straightforward.
Diane's sister ?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/opinion/brexit-european-union-good-news.html
The same confirmation bias can be seen in their determination to find bad economic news. Here is a selection of British reports from the past two weeks: Unemployment fell again, as every month since the vote, to 1.49 million (from 1.67 million in June of last year); manufacturing orders are at their highest level since August 1988; retail sales, official figures show, are up 2.9 percent on this time last year.
Exports were up 10 percent year-on-year in May, helped by the long-overdue correction of the exchange rate. Remainers like to point to the fall in sterling, but rarely mention that, before the vote, the International Monetary Fund and the Bank of England agreed that Britain’s currency, seen as a haven from the travails of the euro, was artificially expensive.
Damn Brexit eh ?
@mike the functions of the drugs regulafor we will still need so its not a loss of jobs and in repsonce to @TiRed the UK is amajor Pharamceutical Research centre of excellence, thats why we got the regulator here. You are quite right it depends upon the contracts signed but I'd be very very surprised if they included a clause such as you suggest. Given A50 was only even thought of as a mechanism for leaving the EU at time of the Lisbon Treaty I very much doubt this scenario was considered. Its like the euro where there is no mechanism for a country to leave even though that scenario is a very possible one. The project is a one way street from the EU's perspective.
@Cougar David Davies is a politician he is bound to make his job sound complicated and difficult.
Jamba - you need to read that article carefully and the stop and think for a bit (though to be fair just checking the author tells you it will be an unbiased balanced review of what's going on. 😉 DH isn't the high priest of Brexy spin, oh no). For example what happens when the xenophobe Brexies (and judging by the government website earlier that's exactly what we're getting) drive 3m people out of the country (it was 3m you lot keep quoting?)
Stop searching round for anything you think might make Brexit sound good and think for a change. I'm pretty sure you're capable - it's just on this issue you choose not to.
Edit - I've just seen your next post. You appear to be arguing that more bureaucracy and more alternative standards are a good thing. I'm sure you don't mean that - or do you?
[quote=teamhurtmore ]Diane's sister ?
nah, Russ's brother. You could of course always use that handy means of finding out information on the internet and work out why his situation will be different post Brexit 😉
jambalaya - Member
@mike the functions of the drugs regulafor we will still need so its not a loss of jobs and in repsonce to
Quite it's jobs that were funded by 27 nations that now need to be paid for by 1. Sound economics there,
Yes because duplicating the functions of the EMA in the UK at our own cost is obviously a good thing.
The current plan is to copy exactly the studies carried out in the EU, absolutely monumental waste of resources.
If that's Brexit logic then yeah flying to the moon is piss easy.
Love that jamba is linking to America medical insurance shill Hannah, ha
He neglected to mention that we've got the slowest growth in the G7 thanks to his leap of faith
The man with no plan ! He was telling us before the ref we'd be looking at a Norway type deal, what happened to that?
Just another ego obsessed bullshitter
jambalaya - Member@mike the functions of the drugs regulafor we will still need so its not a loss of jobs and in repsonce to @TiRed the UK is amajor Pharamceutical Research centre of excellence, thats why we got the regulator here.
Talking to a friend who works for a UK pharma company, the EU is likely to be where future factories get built, rather than the UK. Regulatory approvals
GSK have cancelled their new £1/2bn biopharma plant in ulverston
And there is an stwer who works for them who can tell you more about relocation plans
[BrexitBulldog]kimbers - Member
GSK have cancelled their new £1/2bn biopharma plant in ulverston[/BrexitBulldog] Quitters the lot of them better off with them gone
Your NY Times article is misleading, Jambalaya. The only numbers not measured in pounds are the unemployment figures (Brexit hasn't happened yet) which are enjoying the competitive devaluation of the pound.
However, if you measure in Euros (Britain's biggest trading partner) things don't look so good. And even if you measure in devalued pounds the deficit has grown - increased exports are more than matched by increased imports. The national statistics office has this to say:
Main pointsBetween the 3 months to February 2017 and the 3 months to May 2017, the total UK trade (goods and services) deficit widened from £6.9 billion to £8.9 billion.
The widening of the trade deficit in the 3 months to May 2017 reflects a higher rise in imports than the rise in exports of goods, in particular transport equipment (cars, aircraft and ships), oil and electrical machinery from non-EU countries; a decrease in exports of services also contributed.
Between the 3 months to February 2017 and the 3 months to May 2017, the total UK trade (goods and services) excluding erratics deficit widened from £8.6 billion to £9.3 billion.
The total UK trade (goods and services) deficit widened by £1.0 billion between April and May 2017 to £3.1 billion, following a narrowing in April 2017; this reflects an increase in imports of goods on the month following a decrease in April 2017.
Import prices increased by 0.5% in the 3 months to May 2017 whereas export prices remained flat; however, excluding the impact of falling oil prices, import and export prices grew by 1.0% and 0.5% respectively.
Since the last UK trade release, the total trade deficit for Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2017 has been revised down by £0.4 billion to £8.8 billion due to revisions to trade in services in the period.
Without the spin it looks grim.
@TiRed the UK is amajor Pharamceutical Research centre of excellence, thats why we got the regulator here.
The EMA are leaving. Frankfurt under BfArM would be my best guess for expertise and location. Barcelona is also touted, but I think the German regulators are held in higher esteem. More trips for me, anyway 🙂
As far as drug regulation is concerned, I'm not even convinced that the MHRA has the [u]capacity[/u] for reviewing all new applications. Under the current scheme there are two competent reviewing country authorities. These will accept or reject the application on behalf of the rest of the EU. Under brexit, like Swiss Medic, the MHRA will have to review all applications, not just the subset they do now as part of the EMA.
BTW [url= http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/about_us/general/general_content_000109.jsp ]Norway are part of the EMA[/url] as the EMA cover the European Economic Area. We could still remain in it in some semblance, but it won't be located at Canary Wharf. I think this area will be a barometer for negotiations.
the madness of brexit
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Several Scots said the same thing - the end (independence) was worth the pain in getting there.
I guess it's an issue of timescale. It was obvious that leaving the EU would have a negative financial effect. But if you though that 5/10/15/20 years later the country would be better (socially/economically/both) then you might think it was worthwhile.
Edukator - you may have to revise your comments in light of today's PMI data showing the pace of growth in UK manufacturing picking up - why? - the second strongest increase in exports on record (sauce FT) driven by the weaker £ and increased demand from US and Asia.
So once again (and as predicted) there is the normal J curve affect re the change in £ and that lagged impact on trade. Nothing new there. Plus the Brexshiteers will be pleased by where the demand surprise is coming from. They will overplay that undoubtedly as you have with the doom and gloom.
It's not THAT grim as much as we might want to talk ourselves into believing that. Avoid the BS on both sides.
Plus Deutsche Bank signs the lease for its new London HQ - were all doomed!!!!!
But if you though that 5/10/15/20 years later the country would be better
So Hitler was right to invade Poland? After all Germany is far stronger for it.
Might as well take the idea way too far.....
If the PMI is right it's good, when will people actually feel it tho? as real wages are still falling.
And inflation still biting
Again hurts poorest most
And UK growth now half that of the EZ
It's happy days !
Confusing different things - deliberately or not
Real wage growth or lack of it is a function of (1) productivity - lousy track record - plus Supply and Demand and (2) inflation. That latter has been affected by Brexshit as we know and have commented many times - that is an immediate effect. There is a time lag re how long it takes export volumes to react. That may or may not affect the demand for labour. We shall see. Today's news is a positive to balance the negatives.
We are at different stages in he cycles, we recoverd and peaked earlier than the EZ. For the full year our growth with be lower naturally. Yes, Brexshit has an effect but nowhere near as much as Remoaners would have us believe
I was refering to the trade deficit, THM. Please read my post again as you seem to think I said things I didn't. I have always said that Britain would enjoy the fruits of a competetive devaluation for as long as it takes for higher import prices to feed through as higher costs and inflation. So at present companies are enjoying being more price competetive and being a part of the EU. Neither of those conditions is set to last if the Brexiters have theri way.
Wow that is too confused to answer and not related to your previous post, so I will leave it there.
The confusion is only in your head.
Okay Brexit is probably the biggest (**** up/challenge) since we picked a fight with Adolph.
Poor people pay
Rich people prosper
The middle ticks along
No more complicated, no requirement for macro economic arguments, dogma related bollocks.
It's very simple people and the middle has sussed it will survive and no longer cares for the * wits.
I and many like me used to give a * .....
Quite true, Ed, in fact spot on.
Oldman that is pretty much exactly how I feel. I will be ok, my empathy for those that have voted for this has gone and I feel horrid for feeling like that.
Quite it's jobs that were funded by 27 nations that now need to be paid for by 1. Sound economics there,
You seem to have overlooked the fact that most other EU members are net recipients, they don't pay for anything.
The Torygragph has a jolly story how (supposedly) 75% of EU staff working in London have said they don't want to move. 😀
The WikiLeaks release of policy advisory emails to Macron proor to the election are a hoot. Slagging off the EU Army / Defence and quite rightly pointing out that if the EU can't get the money (ie the euro) right giving them authority over he military and defence policy is madness. Of course France being the free press state that it is has no coverage of this whatsoever. Incidently none either about the French town where residents built a wall around a proposed migrant centre, seen only on Channel 4 here. Good news only allowed under Macron you see.
Edukafor currency induced inflation is "temporary" prices go up once to adjust and thats it. We will see inflation come back down again naturally given its a year on year comparison. The benefits to exports are significant and a deflation encourages people to buy local products. As we have posted many times the euro is a massive advantage to Germany as its far weaker than the DM would be. China works very hard to keep its currency value lower than it would naturally be. The currency devaluation more that counteracts many of the tariffs which might be aplied to uk export goods
There was coverage of the Tarbes mur on national TV, local TV, National radio and in the National and local press, Jamba. Two key words in Google got me:
[url= http://www.leparisien.fr/midi-pyrenees/hautes-pyrenees-des-riverains-erigent-un-mur-devant-un-futur-centre-pour-migrants-24-07-2017-7153761.php ]Le mur du F1 de Tarbes dans le Parisien.[/url]
Inflation wil continue until a new equilibrium is found. At that point the country can accept it's back in the same copetetive position as before or devalue again - see Italy before the exchange mechanism.
@kimbers that survey is a bit bonkers as the question says "regardless of whether you think it likely", Leavers will say Yes and most think the we will not have significant damage to the economy and somwill answer yes.
Just a thought. Why does the Brexit debate always come down to financial considerations above all else? Is there no other way to measure pros and cons?
Is there no other way to measure pros and cons?
Bendy bananas ?
Good blog debunking those years of lies in our beloved press
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
It's hard to put mumbers on the anguish caused by having bricks thrown through your windows, slowoldman. Or in my case feeling it would be unsafe to visit where I was born this Summer.
Yes as ^ on this page, for some/many the financial consequences are irrelevant
Is it underwater now ed? haweswater village at a guess?
Sorry, I don't know the answer to either of those questions which are too criptic for jsut before bed time. Edit: cryptic even
Dommage, dorme bien!
Just a thought. Why does the Brexit debate always come down to financial considerations above all else? Is there no other way to measure pros and cons?
No. Everything is perfectly measured in pounds and pence.
You seem to have overlooked the fact that most other EU members are net recipients, they don't pay for anything.
Anything or all of it, as usual your EU hate is getting in the way of facts. All EU members contribute some more than others, no country "don't pay for anything"
And the UK is around the middle of the net payers anyway in terms of £ per person. Other nations pay a lot more per head of population
So yes they are leasing a new building, doesn't mean anything.
So Labour was seen as an anti Tory vote, welcome to the disfunctional nature of FPTP.
Welcome to silly voting patterns and people not reading what Labour's position was. They are essentially the same on - were people really fooled by Jezza's smoke and mirrors ??
Not sure why this is related to FPTP
Well at this point labour are free to find their own brexit position now. Much easier life and they can adapt as people's perception changes.
Is this going to be boom time for IT contractors in the UK? I imagine that there are going to be loads of systems that need to be created and altered to replicate everything that is currently done on an EU level and the manage the new requirements for immigration/population control that does not happen now.
Personally I am a bit confused by the Maybot saying that there will be an end to freedom of movement in 18 months when they have not negotiated how managed migration will work. Good luck with that IT project is all I can say.
Our press and we as voters should really take the government to task asking obvious questions like how they are going to set up the required IT systems and bureaucracy in time for Brexit in 18 months. It seems an impossible task so why is nobody pointing out the obvious? Even if you think Brexit is a good idea we need some realism and practical thinking without pseudo dogma policy.
I live in Sweden but as they have and always have had a functioning civil service that registers all EU movement I expect no problems with my residency there but if the UK is going to get rid of freedom of movement how do they intend to track all the people from the EU which they don't at the moment? The problems the UK had tracking EU migration will strangely still be the same as before Brexit as they were mostly the UK's problem to begin with.
They are as split as the Tories with an equally inconsistent position, But anti-Europe at heart save the Blairites (remember them?)
Not sure why this is related to FPTP
Can't you? I thought you were brighter than that?
You don't want the most likely candidate to win who do you vote for, your preference and risk the likely winner winning or do you vote for the candidate most likely to defeat the likely winner.
PR would give some value to all votes, FPTP doesn't.
If people chose to vote like fools* they get foolish results...simple really
* generally speaking
If people chose to vote like fools* they get foolish results...simple really* generally speaking
How is it foolish?
hypothetical last election result
incumbent Tory has 50k votes, labour 45k, lib dem 10k.
Looking at the manifestos You align LibDem and reject the Tory completely, you have issues with the Labour one, but less than with the Tories.
Do you vote with your 1st choice and risk the Tory winning or do you vote for the party most likely to beat the Tories?
In part we are here because FPTP has let all parties ignore minority opinion and meant that they were never challenged.
I think the problem is that some people confuse democracy and agreement.
Just because we had a vote doesn't mean we agreed something. Almost the reverse in fact - if we all agreed we wouldn't need to vote.
So yes people voted for candidates who belonged to parties who's leaders held some views that the voter didn't agree with. And in some cases that was not because that party was good but because the alternative was very bad.
But we had the vote, its history, now we can all get on with disagreeing.
I voted for the candidate best placed to unseat my local Conservative MP… with FPTP, how else was I supposed to try and help reduce May's mandate?
Oh, just remembered, everyone is a fool apart from THM… I need to remember that when reading his comments.