[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Don't follow the Brexshiteers, thats embarasing. Better to stick to the facts.

I'd go along with that,

Brexit was just more fuel for the fire,

Spectacularly poorly timed..

I'll pay you 90c.

I'm good thanks, ignoring your facetiousness...

I went to Canada where th £ has some semblance of value!

last year we were the fastest growing economy in the G7. this year we're the slowest equal with italy.
no, the slowdown is not as bad as predicted by many, but then the eurozone's results are also a lot better than expected, so is it any wonder that we're doing better than we'd thought when our largest trading partner is doing better than we'd thought?
our economic performance is in spite of brexit, not because of it. the strength of consumer spending is a good indicator of the public sticking it's collective fingers in it's ears and singing la-la-la-la while running up even bigger debts. personally i just hope none of my friends and family get caught out when the music stops.
as for the bullying THM, maybe just use the report post button if you think there's a problem?

Know a lot of international travellers without passports Edukator?

Yes, about 80% of Shengen Euopeans who holiday in a foreign country do so in a country when they don't need a passport. So that's the vast majority of people I know.

Continental peace & unity is a wonderful concept - it's just not been very well executed. Well, the peace has bit the unity has been a struggle at times..

Are you new here or what? Nobody cares about that shit - the economy is the only thing that matters.

Long enough DrJ to know that I'm probably the only one who'll admit to being a Liberal..

😉

Edukator - Reformed Troll

Yes, about 80% of Shengen Europeans who holiday in a foreign country do so in a country when they don't need a passport. So that's the vast majority of people I know.

The vast majority of people you know don't hold a passport?

Bollocks. 😆

Do you have a passport? 😕

Exception to the rule are we? 😐

Why would I lie, sbob? The majority of French poeple don't have a passport that's a stistical reality, and where I live in the SW the need or desire to hold a passport is low. People holiday locally or in Spain. Even when they fly it's to the French DomTom.

I have a passport but I've never travelled to anywhere I've needed it (oops I forgot Moroco). That's about to change, if Brexit goes ahead I'll need one to visit the place I was born.

So yes, I'm an exception to the rule, I have a passport but most French people don't and the vast majority of people I know don't.

no, the slowdown is not as bad as predicted by many, but then the eurozone's results are also a lot better than expected, so is it any wonder that we're doing better than we'd thought when our largest trading partner is doing better than we'd thought?

That's the best comment this thread has had for weeks.

Oh, apart from this one…

Businesses are also enjoying the competitive devaluation export honeymoon when they are running on stocks of materials paid for with a strong currency whilst recieving payments in Euros that are worth more.

Keep on thinking and informing chaps…

I will sum up this 800 page thread for y'all.

We'll be skint, but there will be less darkies.

sbob:

'You're from an EEA country or Switzerland. You can enter the UK with either a valid passport or a national identity card issued by a EEA country. It must be valid for the whole of your stay.'
[url= https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/before-you-leave-for-the-uk ]sauce[/url]

'Even though you can travel in numerous countries with the ID card, it is not really a permit to travel. However you can use it to travel within the EU, and to some other countries as well. '
[url= https://uk.ambafrance.org/The-National-Identity-Card-CNIS ]crème[/url]

our former ceo used to get in and out of the US on his french ID card from what i remember.

Well we can keep avoiding the truth if we want to, but that doesn't take away the fact that much of what remainers/our side said has not proven true

You know THM, I'm starting to believe that every time you mention that you're a Remainer, which is probably in about 50% of your posts on this thread, it's akin to saying "I'm not racist, but..." You may have voted Remain in the referendum, but trotting out Leaver nonsense like

We lost, get over it, move on

does you no favours, or anyone else for that matter. Aside from the fact that we "lost" to a corrupt campaign based on outright lies to appeal to people's emotions, I surely don't need to explain to you that after a 'vote' is held politics doesn't just [i]stop[/i] otherwise the Whigs would still be in power.

Opposing undesirable government actions is the very definition of parliamentary democracy, it's why we (should) have opposition parties. Attempting to suppress dissenters is no democracy I recognise. You want to talk about anti-democratic speech, you want to turn that mirror of yours around.

As an aside, from that same post,

The economy proved surprisingly resilient in the immediate aftermath

You're neatly ignoring three facts here. 1) we were told that A50 would be triggered immediately and it wasn't, hence the predictions of "project fear" were skewed; 2) we haven't left yet; and 3) one of the primary factors in our currency not tanking even harder than it actually did is that Mark Carney found £250bn in his other jacket to prop up the economy.

We'll be skint, but there will be less darkies.

We'll be much better off than had we remained in the EU

There will be far more "darkies" as our immigration will be much better balanced than at present where we have a bias towards European White Christians

I will sum up this 800 page thread for y'all.

We'll be skint, but there will be less darkies.

If we've alienated the EU populace and the pound has fallen through the floor, it'll surely make the UK an attractive destination for non-EU nationals.

Ie, we'll be skint, but there will be more darkies. We should get that on the side of a bus or something, it might stop the Kippers in their tracks.

Well I feel truly sorry for your countrymen Edukator, who are now going to have get passports to travel from France via the UK to Spain and, err, France.

😕

we have a bias towards European White Christians

You know a few days ago where you were asserting that you never lie / post incorrect information? There's one.

The top three nationalities emigrating to the UK are Poland, ****stan and India, in that order. All well known sources of white Christians.

Non-EU immigration has always outstripped EU immigration, usually by quite a large margin. It was getting close to 50:50 in the last couple of years, but the gulf has opened again recently for some reason I can't quite put my finger on...

Some handy facts to back up what I've just said:

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/

[i]Poland, India and ****stan are the main three foreign countries of birth... accounting respectively for 9.5%, 9.0% and 5.9% of the UK’s foreign born population , followed by Ireland(4.5%) and Germany(3.3%). Polish and Indian citizenship are also the main foreign nationalities in the UK, with Poles being the largest group, accounting for 15.7% of foreign citizens.[/i]

[img] [/img]

sbob - Member

tjagain - Member

Errmmm - yes it is

Rubbish.
The economy hasn't come anywhere close to taking the hit that was predicted.
You know this.

You do know we haven't left yet? Its going exactly as most remainers predicted. the economy is alredy damaged, firms are moving out, investment has stalled etc - the effects won't be felt fully for a while yet and will only get worse but its EXACTLas most remainers predicted - certainly as I and the other remainers predicted.

Here you go, sbob, [url= http://www.easyjet.com/en/routemap ]Easyjet routes[/url]. My local Easyjet airport is Biaritz. Check out the destinations I can fly to direct and then via Luton/Gatwick.

The top three nationalities emigrating to the UK are Poland, ****stan and India, in that order. All well known sources of white Christians.

I'm not sure that the average 'KIPer has realised that leaving the EU won't reduce the number of darkies.

The idea of a bias towards white Christians completely missed the point, which is that the EU extended the concept of "home" to include neighbouring countries.

Cougar like anyone else you are entitled to think what you want - that you doubt that I am remainer is simply another example (in a series) of where your opinion is at odds with facts and the evidence in front of your eyes.

The European economies have been remarkably synchromised in their recoveries - the difference is/was timing of the upturn and the coming downturn. Europe lagged the U.K. dur to to deleveraging and their version of stealing (QE) starting later. The U.K and Europe will both slow next year but at slightly different times. Brexshit has v little to do with this other than the fact that the fall in £ and the impact on inflation and hence real wages is making it harder for the Bank of England to stop stealing offf savers and the prudent. That will wait as in Europe.

Are you new here or what? Nobody cares about that shit - the economy is the only thing that matters.

On the contrary I remember many deriding CMD when he made the same point about peace and the lack of risks of military conflict. The folly of being hoodwinked by party allegiances

that you doubt that I am remainer is simply another example (in a series) of where your opinion is at odds with facts and the evidence in front of your eyes.

I cited my evidence in the same post. I struggle to rationalise someone who is apparently such a strong believer in Remain that they're taking an active part in a discussion with some 30,000 posts on it, with someone who rolls out lines like "We lost, get over it, move on."

From previous discussions my understanding is that you're keen to "get on with it" because you would rather be post-Brexit than pre-Brexit, that you'd prefer the certainty of knowing to what degree we're actually ****ed by. Is that a fair somethingion?

Edukator - Reformed Troll

Here you go, sbob, Easyjet routes. My local Easyjet airport is Biarritz. Check out the destinations I can fly to direct and then via Luton.

Nice cherry picking of airport their Edukator. You know you could fly from Toulouse or Bordeaux?

My local airport in Cambridge also offers limited travel destinations, but lo and behold, I could also travel to a different airport to open up my options.

Who'da thunk it?

No but an improvement

From previous discussions my understanding is that you're keen to "get on with it" because you would rather be post-Brexit than pre-Brexit, that you'd prefer the certainty of knowing to what degree we're actually ****ed by. Is that a fair somethingion?

Of course - uncertainty is bad for the economy. Which is the only important thing.

Which is the only important thing.

If you say so

iIf you say so

I don't.

tjagain - Member

You do know we haven't left yet? Its going exactly as most remainers predicted. the economy is already damaged, firms are moving out, investment has stalled etc - the effects won't be felt fully for a while yet and will only get worse but its EXACTLY as most remainers predicted - certainly as I and the other remainers predicted.

This is pointless other than as an excellent example of arguing against anyone that has even the slightest difference of opinion.

Things are worse and things will get worse, we're all agreed, but not as bad as predicted.

Unless my memory fails me (quite possible!) and you did in fact argue against the IMF's predictions (which they admitted were wrong) at the time they were made... 🙂

So, in order of ridiculousness, does it go.

Shambles > Fiasco > Debacle?

Or is it another order? I really think we need to get this nailed down so we know where we are on the spectrum at all times.

Anyone?

sbob - its exactly as I and many others predicted! the only thing thats not happened is the massive rise in unemplyment yet.

The talks are going as predicted - all those things the leavers said would happen is not happening, all the things the remainers said would happen are happening. FOM movement is going to stay, transitiona arrangements have to be accepted, massive divorce bill, no tarriff free access to the single market etc etc

The economy is taking a hit, inward investment stalled, companies leaving the UK, Dublin and Frankfurt hovering up all the financial services jobs,l massive shortage of nurses as none want to come from the EU now etc etc

Anyone can check current UK employment and unemployment stats - their remarkable levels are at a level which is inconvenient for many false narratives. So probably not unlikely that they are unsustainably low - bloody Tories eh

The talks are not as predicted - the compromises that many remoaners said couldnt happen are already happening. Hard Brexshit less likely now

Inward investment tends are mixed even in financial services

Still this new remoaners narrative needs falsehoods to be sustained in the same way as the Brexshiteers earlier version.

Zero hour contract response in 3 2 1.....

Indeed lets focus on 3% of total employment 😉

Happy hour at the Bistro du Coin, couldn't be happier to see Froome chasing his man down

Good luck to Bardet, he could win one day just not now

I look forward to many more years enjoying as much time here as I want with complete freedom under my UK passport

remoaners

This tells me Cougar is right, THM. Your contributions to this thread use leave campaign vocabulary and arguments.

Inward investment tredns are mixed even in financial services

How about backing this up with some links, THM, because I've seen no news of banks/financial institutions relocating to London and no news to suggest that Brexit has resulted in any inward investment that wouldn't have happened without Brexit.

You only have to read back a few pages to find links to inward investment that is compromised following the Brexit vote and banks moving operations to the EU.

Google is your friend Ed - start with levels of Japanese investment despite their concerns. Honto ne??

Well Brexshitters are right on the remoaning and the BS that supports it - no links required, see above

Banks are working out what to do and we will see movement both ways. I am in the process of hiring a spaniard and a swede to work in London. Brexshit didn't even enter the debate. Fortunately enough people get on with things instead of hiding behind falsehoods and moaning.

I am in the process of hiring a spaniard and a swede to work in London. Brexshit didn't even enter the debate.

Actually given we haven't left yet, ''tis an excellent time for an EU citizen to move to London. Open doors that might be closed later and all.

Phew! I have more hiring to do

I've seen no news of banks/financial institutions relocating to London

Pretty much any bank with international operations is already in London, City Recruitment actually very strong at the moment.

[url= http://www.cityam.com/268762/confidence-city-high-job-volumes-rise-nearly-fifth-after ]Link[/url]

Fortunately enough people get on with things instead of hiding behind falsehoods and moaning.

Do you honestly think the people that aren't happy are actually not getting on with their jobs? Refusing to do any work, like grumpy children? I think that our respective managers would have something to say about that don't you?

I normally respect your intelligence but come on!

Recruitment actually very strong at the moment.

There are a number of EU based regulatory* challenges in my area coming all at once (and a number of other issues such as IBM's WebSphere 6.1 going out of service in 2018) that are driving recruitment. When those challenges are met, we won't be queueing up to make more (bonfire of red tape remember).

That article also says that there is a skills shortage. So even if demand for jobs goes up, there's no-one to fill them, and that cannot be a good thing for the economy. And it says that it's important for employers to have fast and efficient employment processes to avoid losing candidates to competitors. Visa application time anyone? Oh bugger!

Visa based recruitment is no substitute for free movement.

* such as PSD2 that forces banks to let you use other apps to move your money around

Google isn't my friend THM. Every post art 50 hit I've got is of Japanese firms calling for a soft Brexit and the Japanese ambasador warning Japanese frims will quit Britain. [url= https://www.ft.com/content/1573e85e-13b6-11e7-b0c1-37e417ee6c76 ]FT in March[/url]

Now you provide a recent link to show that the Japenese are still investing post art 50 with the prospect of a hard Brexit.

You're out of date, out of touch and posting Brexit propaganda, THM.

😀

You think that new jobs in the City is a good thing, Mefty, when it's to cope with:

""This is further compounding the existing skills shortage, much of which has been driven by increased demand for regulatory specialists in compliance and risk.”"

The city is recruiting to deal with Brexishambles. That's bad news except for the people doing the jobs of which you are one. A bit like the armaments industry recruiting in a war.

Great. So increased regulation and compliance are a function of Brexshit now. 😯

For a moment, I thought you were being serious about Brexshit

Propo...what?!?

You're rambling incoherently, THM. Diner toinght, zero Brexiters at the table. 8)

By your standards, for sure. We have very different ideas of coherency clearly.

But your last point was a classic example of remoaners doig exactly what the Brexshiteers did before. Bravo, that's quite a transformation...

Ironically, one iof my dinner guests tonight is the only Brexshiteer among locally based friends (and my tennis partner). His tennis and company is better than his judgement fortunately....

His tennis and company is better than his judgement fortunately....

Clearly, as he's not a very good judge of character either.......

8)

Edukator the City is recruiting to deal with all the additional regulations put on in the wake of the financial crises. They are recruiting extra people in risk as senior management are very cogniscent of the significant increase in risk today not least due to the unresolved eurozone sovereign debt crises, never mind Greece, Italy is in a terrible state and Italy is too big to bail out.

Danny 😀 (hope it comes back in the morning BTW)

Don't spoil the story Jambas! Much better to blame you and your mates

Funny you should mention Italy - give that the Eu has just ignored its own rules re Italian bank resolution, it bodes well for a Brexshit fudge too

Yeah, sorry - I couldn't resist a cheap-shot.

I'm feeling all chipper, see - managed to convert to tubeless today after years of resistance and dread. Took less than an hour and now all my pinch flat woes are over (six in two rides last week).

I rule.

In my view life will go back to normality minus the insufferable EU bureaucratic ZM nosing around. As far as I know some of the more immediate problems will actually start in Italy spreading like wildfire to neighbouring countries. Greece is already gone regardless, no hope whatsoever for Greece to recover if they stay in EU. They will be slave to EU for many generations to come which is inevitable. 🙄

I look forward to many more years enjoying as much time here as I want with complete freedom under my UK passport

"I'm alright jack… "

Chewkw - nice one. I like a bit of humour.

For the avoidance of doubt, Brexit has already failed it's just some of you are in denial. Keep smiling Brexies.

Oh, the ZM are back…

In my view life will go back to normality minus the insufferable EU bureaucratic ZM nosing around.

If I was ever unsure that I'd backed the right horse...

igm - Member
Chewkw - nice one. I like a bit of humour.

For the avoidance of doubt, Brexit has already failed it's just some of you are in denial. Keep smiling Brexies.

EU bureaucratic system is in slow motion clash. Deny it as much as you want by putting whatever spins you want. It's a Major problem in itself. If Italy is asking for help you know the entire system is in deep shite. A sovereign nation like Italy cannot decide and needs the help of EU ... they know they are in deep shite. Very deep. Italy has completely loss the control to deal with issues without the fear of not consulting EU bureaucrats.

kelvin - Member
Oh, the ZM are back…

Cougar - Moderator

In my view life will go back to normality minus the insufferable EU bureaucratic ZM nosing around.

If I was ever unsure that I'd backed the right horse...

[img] [/img]

Is chewie back?

dannyh - Member
Yeah, sorry - I couldn't resist a cheap-shot.

No probs - it made me smile.

IBM's WebSphere 6.1 going out of service in 2018) that are driving recruitment

Lots of other things driving recruitment as well, but whilst it always appears that these things will come to an end, there is always something that comes along to take their place.

Shortage of compliance staff has been a recurring theme ever since Big Bang which caused the first significant recruitment drive in this area. This was a result of all the new regulations introduced as a result of the Thatcher deregulation (which has always been a misnomer as it involved a completely new regulatory environment)

dannyh - Member
Is chewie back?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-uk-finances-pound-value-stocks-2016-credit-suisse-a7431366.html

Indeed lets focus on 3% of total employment

Are you new here!?

Both Fox and Corbyn spouting sh1te about Brexshit on Marr this morning - amazingly Corbyn making Fox seem more sensible.

Jezza really needs to get his mind sorted on what FoM means, otherwise the fake stance becomes even more obvious, At lead the old boy is clear about his dislike for the basic idea of deregulated, freer markets across the zone. He really doesn't like Europe does he!?!

Budget defict up hugely. that austerity plan is wortking nicely isn't it. More bad news 'cos of wanting to leave the EU
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/21/uk-budget-deficit-inflation-government-borrowing

Nurse shortage
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-nurse-shortage-40000-post-brexit-trusts-hospitals-uk-healthcare-leaked-government-a7671791.html

Financial services firms moving out of the UK
http://uk.businessinsider.com/ey-rise-in-firms-moving-jobs-out-of-uk-over-brexit-2017-5
http://uk.businessinsider.com/deutsche-bank-brexit-jobs-relocation-2017-4

Then we have the utter disaster of the negotiations where the UK is making no headway at all - because of the idiocy of the tories and their stupid red lines that put the EU in an impossible situation as the tories wish list is incompatible with EU law

UK pensioners are going to lose their reciprocal health rights
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/18/retired-britons-eu-return-campaigners-pensioners-spain-healthcare

Its much worse than a fiasco - its an unmitigated omnishambles verging of clusterfart

"clusterfart" ?
Sadly it'll leave a much greater order of ordure than that 😆

didn't want to get done for swear filter avoidence

I think clusterfart should be a word anyway. I have certainly done it.
(If you must know I was trying to sidle out of a crowded room without anyone noticing)

A bit like Davies at the brexit negotiations (edit)

Its much worse than a fiasco - its an unmitigated omnishambles verging of clusterfart

Well it certainly seems that way when you overstate your sources, which are predominantly opinion pieces. 😉

didn't want to get done for swear filter avoidence

It's in the swear filter, gets replaced:

bit of a mess

sbob - its all bad news and undeniable. There is no doubt at all the adverse effects are already showing and its only just started. financial services is most troublesome as thats where we earn money to reduce the balance of payments deficit.

All these adverse effects are real and increasing each week

got any good news to counter the bad? After all according to the leavers its an opportunity - so lets hear some good news thats happening because of leaving the EU

tjagain - Member

sbob - its all bad news and undeniable.

No it isn't undeniable. It's bordering on hysterical (and reminds me of my ageing mother).

TJ says: "Financial services firms moving out of the UK"

TJ's source says: "Notably though, the majority of firms are maintaining their commitment to the UK, and still talking about moving only the resources necessary to maintain a smooth service for their clients"

And I could go on.

If things are as bad as STW's protagonists make out, then they would be mad and/or stupid to remain in the country.

Put your money where your mouth is, I'm looking forward to some very quiet trails... 🙂

then they would be mad and/or stupid to remain in the country.

If only we had freedom of movement and guaranteed rights...

Good news - Brexshit hasn't happened yet
Bad news - Blame Brexshit
Logical conclusion - what a load of BS 😉

molgrips - Member

If only we had freedom of movement and guaranteed rights...

Still worth it molgrips, the grass is greener, everywhere!

Remember that emigration did exist before the formation of the EU, it's made me the mongrel that I am today! 🙂

sbob - so actually you have no good news about leaving the EU despite it being a clear obvious and undeniable stream of bad news but all you can do is nitpick to try to downplay the bad news.

As for the financial services we know from reports that firms are moving jobs out of the country to either frankfurt of Dublin.

Frankfurt’s attempt to become the EU’s pre-eminent post-Brexit financial centre received another boost on Thursday as more details emerged of plans by Deutsche Bank and Citigroup to beef up their operations in the German financial capital.

In a video published on Thursday, Deutsche Bank chief executive John Cryan has told staff that Germany’s biggest bank will begin to book the “vast majority” of the assets in its UK global markets business to Frankfurt.

Jim Cowles, Citigroup’s Europe, Middle East and Africa chief, told his staff the bank had decided to base its EU broker dealer — its main trading operation — in Frankfurt, but would scatter some other businesses across Amsterdam, Paris, Dublin, Luxembourg and Madrid.

Ooh, let's play newspaper cuttings - choose you rag to suit your position

Torygraph/Brexshit bugle - remoaners beware, it's all going swimmingly
FT/EU 4 Ever - its all a disaster, blame it on Brexshit (even though it hasn't happened yet apparently)
Evenign Standard/Gideon's gobshite - Theresa sacked me, so she is going to get it in the neck every day. Just you watch ...

The first lesson for historians - remember the source - when, who, why, what for etc.. Then assess its value.

this is six month old - the situation will only get worse

U.K. businesses have delayed or canceled investments worth 65.5 billion pounds ($82 billion) since the vote to leave the European Union, with more than 40 percent of large companies scaling back, according to a new survey.

Executives have been reluctant to follow through on spending plans because of a plunge in the pound and a lack of clarity over the U.K.’s future relationship with the EU, according to the study published Monday by the Centre for Economics and Business Research and Hitachi Capital U.K.

We're doooomed, were doooooooomed I tell ye.

Here in the soon to be Independent Yorkshire it's all lovely.