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I'm fairly sure you get a free number of article views with the FT then you hit the subscription wall.
Two, IIRC.
teamhurtmore - Member
What process do you have in mind? We have two groups of incompetents (Tory and Lab) who enjoy the support of the majority of the Uk voters who are both arguing largely for the same thing will the same level of preparation (sic). So you might as well wait for Godot. He will arrive earlier
one group has proved themselves to be incompetent beyond all reasonable doubt (jambalaya, chewkw and ninfan expected)
I'd give the other group a go.
Two bads don't make a good - and Corbyn is more of a leaver than May
and Corbyn is more of a leaver than May
Nah he's way smarter than May, so we live in hope
Perhaps now that he does his top button up and wears a tie. Otherwise...
On the basis Corbyn is leading his party, while May is being led by hers, Corbyn has more room for manoeuvre and is therefore more likely to come back with a sensible answer even if he is more of a leaver.
Perhaps now that he does his top button up and wears a tie. Otherwise...
What? You want to see him in leather trousers?
Mail on Sunday has brilliant headline today about how the French are planning to 'wreck' our economy. Evil frenchies - what they don't know is we're doing a perfectly good job all by ourselves 🙂
Chancellor Philip Hammond has told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show that businesses are holding off from investing in the UK because of uncertainty about Brexit."It is absolutely clear businesses where they have discretion over investment, where they can hold off, are doing so - you can understand why.
"They are waiting for more clarity about what the future relationship with Europe will look like," he said.
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40623473 ]BBC Link[/url]
So we have 2 years of companies holding back on investment to see what deal we make then who can say how long after the "deal" is reached for confidence to return...
I can say for sure that since Brexit the company I work for has moved 3 manufacturing sites out of the UK and changed a relocation of one of our groups headquarters from London to Paris. It's depressing to say the least.
Two bads don't make a good - and Corbyn is more of a leaver than May
He's already shown that he is prepared to lead the party on a position with which he does not necessarily agree e.g. Trident.
And also campaign for remain when he clearly believed in leave. However the policy has to change for that to become relevant.
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887 ]It would apppear the BBC have employed our forum optimist:[/url]
The article starts in a matter of fact manner and drifts off into anecdotes and quoting people with their heads firmly in the sand. Quoting 2016 growth rather than the latest figures was the first thing that smacked of optimistic leaver, but it was at the point that journo says that four major US banks will be backing the city (as if that's going to make a scrap of difference) that I began to think the BBC are intentionally misleading people. Rose tinted BBC spectacles for all.
Get real BBC, 27 countries are going to act in their own best interests, which just became a whole lot easier since one country abandonned its best interests.
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40625678 ]A yet in another article it's absh the French[/url] when it's Francfort that's picked up more banks, and Dublin will probably be the overall winner.
BBC just doing their 'patrotic duty'.
Can't have the Tories getting blamed when it all collapses now can we.
It's very unfair to claim that Auntie is biased....she simply has a different remit to be biased against everyone! Hence she is by default unbiased
Probably a fair assessment
Oh come on, that article is just taking the piss:
Her key message has been that "Brexit means Brexit"
those brexies really do think hammond is an 'enemy of the people'
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also love this pic of davis
EU team have obviously got extensive notes
Davis just gonna bumble through it, with some superior british common sense
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/17/tory-hammond-chancellor-brexit
Looks very much like the knives are out for Hammond because he doesn't believe strongly enough in the one true path. Have to wonder who is driving this, i doubt it is May, she is as much a pawn as the others.
They all hate Hammond as he's the only one who isn't living in some totally bonkers, xenophobic, flag-waving fantasy world, and seems to have got into the habit of pointing out uncomfortable 'cake-and-eat-it' related home truths.
Happily, he doesn't seem to give a toss about upsetting their Winston Churchill/Dunkirk spirit pipe-dream, as he knows that May is powerless to do anything about anything, so he can do and say what the hell he likes!
The bottom line is that despite how vocal the total headcases in the Tory party are, the vast majority of the parties MP's voted remain, and agree with Hammond that this whole thing is absolute insanity
EU team have obviously got extensive notes
Davis just gonna bumble through it, with some superior british common sense
Sure Davis will be fine with his cheery, cheeky grin.
Davis does seem to be winning the competition for grossly overestimating their own abilities. No mean feat when the other two contenders are Boris Johnson and Liam Fox
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/davis-emerges-without-trousers-20170620129863 ]This is probably a pretty accurate account of the days proceedings[/url]
Mail on Sunday has brilliant headline today about how the French are planning to 'wreck' our economy.
That has some truth to it. There is a Frenchman* who owns several major paper which has done a lot of damage to the UK.
*as far as I know the Private Eye story has never been denied and his status hasnt changed.
sadly I think the trite jingoism of the Brexiters will never go away
our exit bill will be an outrage forced on us by the crazy ferederalist euros
the Repeal Bill will be trumpeted as a new Magna Carta (torygraph and mogg etc already hammering that fantasy home) even though its the biggest ever betrayal of the sovereignty shite talked throughout the referendum;
Copying word for word EU law so that we can still meet the same standards to cooperate & trade with the EU & beyond, obviously we will have to update the EU law as they update theirs.... FAKECONTROL at its best, we will have 0 input in a huge chunk of our laws but the rightwingers will portray it as VE day mark II
No wonder Davis looks happy, he knows that the same gullible brexit voters will believe whatever murdoch, dacre, barclay bros etc tell them
If you are going to post anti-French conspiracy theories, dissonance, then I think you need to pick from the short list of Frenchmen who own several papers:
Michel Hommell (1944-) : presse de loisirs, automobile, sports…
Jean-Luc (1928-2003) et Arnaud Lagardère (1961-) : radio (Europe 1), télévision…
Bernard Arnault (1949-) : Les Échos, Le Parisien, Aujourd'hui en France.
Vincent Bolloré (1952-) : Canal+, CNews...
Pierre Berger (1930-) : Le Monde.
And give some examples of the damage done.
does he mean this guy?
https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/from-private-eye-lord-rothermeres-non-dom-tax-scam/
f you are going to post anti-French conspiracy theories, dissonance, then I think you need to pick from the short list of Frenchmen who own several papers:
Whoosh, the proprietor of the Daily Mail Group has a French domicile.
Rothermere is a British non-dom so not a Frenchman. The article rings false in that if he were declared resident in France he'd pay ISF which would defeat the non-dom tax avoidance objective.
Cummings doesnt have much faith in Dopey David Davis...
odysseanproject?
@odysseanprojectDD is manufactured exactly to specification as the perfect stooge for Heywood: thick as mince, lazy as a toad, & vain as Narcissus
1:58 PM - 17 Jul 2017
What does DD actually do?
https://amp.ft.com/content/a11de5ea-6ae5-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0
The two sides are planning for four days of negotiations, with Mr Davis returning to Brussels on Thursday to take stock of progress and make preparations for the next round of talks.The UK minister left Brussels at around midday Brussels time, three hours after he arrived at the commission, with technical work to continue this afternoon in his absence.
Mr Davis headed back to London as tensions mount within the government over Brexit, pitting chancellor Philip Hammond against hardline Brexiters.
The upheaval has even sparked concerns in Brussels.
“It’s a mess. Nobody would want to see them like this,” said one European diplomat working on Brexit negotiations.
Ahh we're playing the sympathy card...
maybe it is time to put the old dog down, it really isn't fair to keep an animal suffering when it is clearly incapable.
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and if May isn't capable maybe it is for the best that the EU do it.
odysseanproject?
@odysseanproject
DD is manufactured exactly to specification as the perfect stooge for Heywood: thick as mince, lazy as a toad, & vain as Narcissus
1:58 PM - 17 Jul 2017
one wonders at the motivation of the guy, spewing such vitriol at those he effectively put in the driving seat. a conscience? i'd be surprised.
The vast majority of the now frothing Brexiteers amongst the general public were just getting on with fuming their way silently through their lives until that pillock Cameron went and asked the question. Now a lot of those frothing brexiteers are having second thoughts, but if a grown-up actually took control and said "it was all an infantile mistake" it would galvanise the brexiteers again.
There were many reasons why 'we' voted leave, but the things that underlies a lot of it is the sense that "fings was betta in the good old days". A lot of people genuinely thought Brexit would be the catalyst for a U.K. where street scenes only contained white faces, you were allowed to birch kids in schools and you could get jumping jacks for bonfire night.
The swivel-eyed Brexit loons in the Tory Party are trying to rush this farce through because it is becoming ever more apparent no one has a ****ing clue what they are doing and even that doesn't really matter because we have no decent cards to play in negotiations anyway.
In one of the many delicious ironies that I nowadays console myself with, the euro-haterz have pulled our pants down and handed the EU a cane with which to administer whatever punishment they see fit.
It's no wonder many satirical shows have stopped on TV and radio, when the reality is beyond parody there really isn't any point any more.
one wonders at the motivation of the guy, spewing such vitriol at those he effectively put in the driving seat. a conscience? i'd be surprised.
It's either massive arrogance , he reckons Brexit can only work if he's the 'genius' behind it, reading his blogs he's certain that everyone that ignores him is a obviously an idiot.
Or
He's trying to make sure that brexshit being a disaster is definitely not his fault.
Probably a mixture of the 2.
And just remember, every time an oaf like Johnson tries to get a belly laugh from fellow ruddy-faced oafs with what he thinks is a witty quote, then gets owned in return:
He is representing us.
We really are a laughing stock and we've achieved this all by ourselves. Go us!
Rothermere is a British non-dom so not a Frenchman. The article rings false in that if he were declared resident in France he'd pay ISF which would defeat the non-dom tax avoidance objective.
He is regarded as having a French domicile for UK tax purposes. Domicile as a concept is largely irrelevant in most other countries tax systems, some countries which inherited UK law still use it, and is completely separate to the concept of residence, which is used throughout the world to determine taxing rights.
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So we agree that Rothermere is neither a Frenchman nor resident in France.
So this little lot:
Mail on Sunday has brilliant headline today about how the French are planning to 'wreck' our economy.That has some truth to it. There is a Frenchman* who owns several major paper which has done a lot of damage to the UK.
is simply not true.
And I was right to contest it.
I imagine he has a French passport.
His nationality is quoted as British. Not dual nationality. Check for yourself.
Edit: it appears his tenuous claim to be a non-dom is based on his late father having lived in Paris at some point:
"He has not denied claiming tax concessions as a "non-dom", on the grounds that his father lived in Paris. He resides at Ferne Park, a stately home in Wiltshire built for him by architect Quinlan Terr"
He has a British title, but that doesn't require you to be a British national. Having a British Passport would not help his domicile argument so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have one. Wiki could well be wrong on this.
The swivel-eyed Brexit loons [s]in the Tory Party[/s] are trying to rush this farce through because it is becoming ever more apparent no one has a **** clue what they are doing and even that doesn't really matter because we have no decent cards to play in negotiations anyway.
A reminder that Corbyn was one of very few politicans calling for A50 to be triggered immediately after the referendum.
I got the British nationality from Companies House. Check it.
In that case he no doubt has it, but they don't note dual nationality on the Companies House website, I have just checked a couple of people I have worked with who I know have dual nationality and they are also described as British.
I can't prove a negative but my default Google settings are French and I've goen through enough sites to be pretty sure he doesn't have French nationality. I think both you, Mefty, and Private Eye need to produce some evidence of French nationality before slurring a whole nation.
There was a non-dom thread on here a while back and the conclusion was that the non-doms usually didn't fulfil the conditions for their non-dom status but were accorded it all the same by the corrupt and morally bankrupt British system.
I can't prove a negative but my default Google settings are French and I've goen through enough sites to be pretty sure he doesn't have French nationality. I think both you, Mefty, and Private Eye need to produce some evidence of French nationality before slurring a whole nation.
Get you, slurring a whole nation - Jesus you need a sense of perspective.
There was a non-dom thread on here a while back and the conclusion was that the non-doms usually didn't fulfil the conditions for their non-dom status but were accorded it all the same by the corrupt and morally bankrupt British system.
It was ill informed, as a former tax adviser it is a subject I have some familiarity with. Whilst I am 20 years out of date, the French system was also pretty attractive for foreign high rollers too.
Edukator, no one is slurring the French in this, more that someone who claims to be an English patriot, and doing what is in the best interests of the UK. Does so whilst paying very little tax and living in a foreign country. Look at the Barclay bros with their channel island tax haven or Murdoch.
Is it remotely acceptable that the British press is run by those who are not actually British and who pay minimal Tax.
So, the issue of the negotiating team's diversity has been brought up recently.
Generally old rich white guys in fancy suits. Quelle surprise!
One woman, no non-whites, no gingers, no blacks, no Jews, no Irish, no dogs?
However, what I'm not seeing in the articles is a breakdown of any of their experience with the ....regions..... - Wales, Scotland, NI - are any of the devolved administrations represented?
Or is it just a wake up that the civil service is an old boy's club kakistocracy?
No gjngers?
Let's start one of those petition thingies.....
Tick...tick...tick...tick...tick.
What's going on Brexies?
What's that? No idea?
Wow - I'd have thought the least you could have done was have some idea of how this was going to go before voting for it.
Given the no one has tried to do this, it's not unreasonable the they don't know whay they are doing. No one does. It's a novel lose:lose scenario with no precedent
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Interesting view
The more that it becomes apparent that the Brexiters’ original vision is collapsing, the more shrilly they will insist that a second referendum would be undemocratic. But the Leavers’ view of democracy is similar to that of a third-world dictator — “one man, one vote, one time”. In other words, once a decision has been taken by referendum, it cannot be revoked.
- FT https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/b3630088-6ac6-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0
Collapsing??
Brexies simoley wanted to leave/not be a part of Europe (whatever the ST costs). Nothing has changed/collapsed on that front. Seems the only rock solid part of the whole thing.
THM - worth reading the full article. They explain what they mean by collapsing.
You may disagree but it is a nicely constructed article and they make their point fairly rationally.
What is it with brexiters and their strange relationship with the truth?
Read it earlier in the day. It's ok, but is the FT so just another revisionist article and antidote to whatever the Brexshit Bugle publishes on the same day. TBH, stopped reading the papers on Brexsit these days. Nothing new just the same old, same old...we knew their relative positions, nothing will change them,
But Gideon's misunderstanding of Brexshit means Brexshit is noteworthy I suppose. He really doesn't get it, does he??
I don't see it as revisionist particularly.
I think the mists are clearing and the cake and eat it contradictions are becoming more starkly highlighted.
And public opinion has turned against leaving the EU.
Democracy doesn't end because one side got the vote they wanted, does it now?
Democracy doesn't end because one side got the vote they wanted, does it now?
No, it keeps rumbling on, inconvenient as it seems.
Don't worry, power is more important to Corbyn (and his puppeteers) than Leave/Remain (as it is to the Tories). Should the tide of public opinion turn sufficiently, both parties will do what is most expedient.
is this a surprise? The government has never bothered to use the powers that they had.
We'd need ID cards for that shit
And ol' thick as mince Davis threw his toys out and resigned over that last time !
The contradictions have been clear from day 1 as has the fact that for Brexshiteers they do not matter. There is a bigger picture they see, rather like the Scottish Gnats - yes they are wrong, foolish (arguably) and committing self harm, but that doesn't stop them. That is simply not part of the debate as history has shown us very clealy
To you and I yes, but it wasn't the Brexies who voted for Brexit - rather it was the Brexies who recruited enough votes to get a 52:48 vote.
It is those people who were recruited that matter going forward.
The mists are clearing for them to the extent that that 4% margin has rather more than reversed and the trend is that it is continuing to do so.
It wasn't the brexies?? Was it Putins secret cyber army?
Anyway we shall see. Personally I expect very messy negotiations ending in an extended transition and ultimate fudge but who knows. Not worrying about it too much, far too much else to do....
It wasn't the brexies?? Was it Putins secret cyber army?
It's really pretty obvious what he meant!
Not worrying about it too much, far too much else to do....
Well that explains your ongoing interest...
Interested is not synonymous with worrying...
Though you had far too much to do though 😉
I thought it was nice of DD to drop in to Brussels and give him 5 minutes of his time yesterday.
I presume that's it until he drops in for another chat in September?
[b]igm [/b]has it spot on - Brexit campaigners are ready for, and in some cases wanting, the economic choppy waters ahead… but that isn't the pretext that the vote was won on - many people voted with "project fear" ringing in their ears instead of taking warnings from all quarters as being indicative of what is very likely to happen. As reality becomes clear, due to real deals and exit preparations starting to form, more people will be against us leaving (although that isn't the same as saying more people will actually be bothered to try and stop us). The trick now is to keep people thinking that we "have to leave", rather than keeping people convinced that leaving is the right thing to do for the UK.
I think we should also acknowledge that the campaign run by dave and george was terrible
All it did was say if we leve the EU we will all be skint, your savings will go down and they just kept poring more economic doom on top of economic doom
They did nothing else - and they did exaggerate the impacts- to the extent the doubters did not believe them
Brexit did at least have a dream to sell - even if it was based on lies and was utterly unachievable
The last few elections here and the US [ and France to some degree] has led me to the conclusion you just say short sound bite " make america great again, Bring back control, for the many not the few and just run with those sorts of nice sounding ideas [[ that we would all largely like] that you dont bother to flesh out - because the voters are too stupid/disinterested to consider whether this is actually possible / have any real grasp of what it means
The problem with Brexit is we have not done it and as we get closer more folk will realise the hollowness of the soundbites and will likely feel "duped"
Whether there are enough to get another vote is the only real question but I no longer think the majority of voters support this. Given this I wonder why we are still doing it.
Probably the best thing that could happen now is for a voluntary weighting of tax codes for everyone who voted Leave to pay for the divorce bill. Of course, if the number of people volunteering for a K code to be applied to them exceeds 50% of the working population, then of course we should go ahead with Brexit.
Seems fair to me. Let's start by asking Boris and Gove to cough up first.
igm has it spot on - Brexit campaigners are ready for, and in some cases wanting, the economic choppy waters ahead
Indeed. These lunatics believe the Ayn Rand principles of 'Creative Chaos'. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as 'Creative Chaos', just Chaos
Probably the best thing that could happen now is for a voluntary weighting of tax codes for everyone who voted Leave to pay for the divorce bill.
now this I like!
Lots of friends and business acquaintances (in favour of remain) are building personal and business war chests, this is not because we know what's going to happen post brexit its just a natural reaction in times of uncertainty- i have said here previously i would have taken on at least another 2 grads this year but i am not (i could do with more resource) but i will sweat the asset and stack up the cash- i am aimimg for 18 months of overheads in the bank for the business and the ability to survive 18 month's with no income personally - this is my accountants advice. Lots of people like me out there
Well we need more savers so that's another plus for brexit 🙂
Interesting that fatchas rebate is causing problems
If its factored in as France want, then thats an extra 10bn onto the divorce bill
https://www.ft.com/content/083dd8b6-6bf4-11e7-bfeb-33fe0c5b7eaa
So unsurprisingly, deutsche bank has picked Frankfurt for the “vast majority” of the assets in its UK global markets business
Frankfurt seems to be the winner as most big banks at least nominally picking it for their European bases
Wonder if we'll be treated to another cumulative minor piece of national humiliation today?
What could go wrong? 'Negotiations' being led by a bloke whose crass stupidity is matched only by his blustering self-confidence and mistaken confidence in this stupid project.
Brilliant.