[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

teamhurtmore - Member
True, having. a GE with the two main parties both committed to Brexit was pretty clear. Agreed. Amazing how so many can't let the old vote go, isn't it?

100% Joe. Your "version" (sic) is totally alien to me, correct.

Enjoy and make merry @IGM. At my wedding in France eurosceptics where in the majority and UK guests where only about 20% of the total fyi

Brexit is definitely happening.

G20 has gone very well with all major trading partners looking to deepen their relationships with the UK.

Onwards and upwards

Enjoy and make merry @IGM. At my wedding in France eurosceptics where in the majority and UK guests where only about 20% of the total fyi

Hardly a representative example Jambas!

You are surprised people have principles and feel that Brexit was won on a fabric of lies

The mark of a man JY..

So just to check, everyone who voted conservative wants a vote on fox hunting?
Everyone who voted labour supported nationalising the railways?

That should put the GE was a 2nd referendum claim to bed.

Trade wise there is a reason trade deals take a decent amount of time to negotiate, it's complicated and difficult. These days the stronger party gets more of what they want. A desperate UK negotiating with a US first US is never going to be good for the UK.

At my wedding

LOL

And big Dave reckons dogs can't look up.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/08/german-industry-warns-uk-over-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

All going according to plan, then

Re Dracs link, 2 things:

1) with the sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine Germany has shown that principle over profit reigns. Difficult for [i]some[/i] to understand, granted.
2) Brexies keep on that Germany has done best out of the EU, so why, exactly, would they undermine it?

And, yes, all running on that well oiled plan.... 😆

Did jambs actually have an EU in/out poll at his own wedding? 😯

At my wedding we all just got drunk and had a bit of a dance, grilling the guests over their political persuasions never made it onto the order of ceremonies 😉

MH because ultimately the Germans will have to accept that having only a small set of winners doesn't work (sound familiar?) . At some point, they have to accept that they will have to formalise the transfer of the surpluses that the (broken) system inevitably creates (for them) to the deficit nations (all those lazy S Europeana who can't get thier houses together, apparently). The myopic view of how it (doesn't) work means the they find this unacceptably despite it being blindingly obvious as a basic requirement for the EZ to work.

@kimbers we talk a lot about politics actually, a few of my in-laws are elected officials one even considered standing as Macron's Parliamentary candidate in his home town and would certainly had won if he'd done so. Clearly not at the wedding though, before and after. Getting drunk isn't a thing with my in-laws, my 20 guests drank more than my wife's 90

@teamhurtmore the Germans would rather leave the EU than transfer more of the benefits to other members. In any case they won't have to they'll just maintain the status quo.

Classy as ever.

Not strictly true Jambas. There is a massive private sector transfer via Target 2 balances - of course ultimately back stopped unwittingly by the Bundesbamk - indeed Germany has a massive exposure to the ultimate demise as a result - circa 30% of GDP. As long as the EZ survives then Target 2 balances remain nothing more than an accounting entry. On demise, they become reality with Herr and Frau Schmidt at the sharp end.

So massive transfers HAVE taken place especially since 2007 albeit from the private sector.

Blimey, some abuse has finally been edited out. The world is changing ....

We can still insult the SNP especally its leader?
What about sweaty scots?
Can we use that ?
Surely we can still talk to A-A about reading?

Shall i go on ...no but you will 😉

The result is plain to see: the civil service is no longer a Rolls-Royce but a battered Nissan Micra with a neurotically nervous driver.

This country so needs to crash and burn to finally put pay to its ridiculous pretensions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/09/brexit-salvations-illusory?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

the Germans would rather leave the EU than transfer more of the benefits to other members

A bit confused… is the EU bad because the richer countries pay in too much, and the poorer countries not enough, and because money is directed to regions in need of an economic lift, or it is it bad because it leaves the poorer regions to wither on the vine? Is it bad when education and training is funded in Wales or Poland where a shift in skills is required, or bad because it somehow stops the most successful regions of the richest countries to increase exports around the world?

So, should we richer counties help the poorer regions less or more?

Should the obvious, and the less direct, benefits we richer countries gain by being in the EU be better spread to poorer regions, and how do we explain to the economically illilterate amoungst us (I include myself and many of our government ministers in that) how that benefits all of us, not just the recipients of EU measures?

Kelvin those are the sort of questions that led to the experts being lined up against the wall.
As usual Vince Cable has some common sense going on
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40547733
"Brexit may never happen"

Remember the prime concern of any MP at the moment is getting reelected when this government collapses. Plenty of time to defy the whip and vote how you actually think.

the Germans would rather leave the EU than transfer more of the benefits to other members

As I think that Jamba and THM were really talking about the Euro more than the EU, I should add that I agree with those that say the Southern countries joined at the wrong rate, and splitting the Euro into two currencies early on could have avoided lots of pain… past mistakes… taking an age to mitigate the effects… recent figures give hope that things are moving on though… and Germany helping the other members more than some give them credit for.

Germany won't leave the Eurozone, never mind the EU.

Oh, and we're not in the Eurozone… but we did do our bit to bail out Ireland. Go us!

Kelvin, i do not have the same view as Jambas. I am very anti the Euro as a common currency for very obvious reasons - the havoc that it has already created across Europe is indicative of the fact that it is already broken and broken a long time ago, in fact from inception and in design - as is Jambas. But I am pro the EU (at its highest level) the four central pillars and our membership of it. Jambas is not. Most importantly I am fully behind the idea of FoM.

We got our money back from any bailout and were protected from future ones despite the lies spouted by Brexshiteers. But you are correct, we're not in the EZ despite Brexshiteers trying to confuse people on what that meant/means.

The sitatuion that CMD ended up with as good as it gets. That is the folly of the whole thing. Exacerbated by the fact that many feel compelled to define this issue according to predetermined party political allegiances. The second folly.

[url=http://]Why are these more accurate than the real news[/url]

The trade deal, which could see tariff-free trading with Japan, the world’s third-largest economy, would be exactly the sort of boost to the economy that the UK has no real interest in.

“Phew, that was close,” said Brexit supporter and unemployed village idiot Simon Williams.

“Imagine if project fear had worked last year and we’d voted to remain in the EU, then we’d end up caught up in this horribly profitable free-trade deal with Japan.

“Yes, it would prove to be a huge boost to British businesses, leading to an economic bounce that could see new jobs and wage increases, but we’d have to talk to French people, which would be an absolute disaster for some reason.

“We caught a lucky break there. Without Brexit, we might have Europeans telling us we no longer have to pay tariffs on trade with Japan.

“The nerve of these people.”

It is understood that Liam Fox is currently working on a post-Brexit trade deal to supply a small shop in Wisconsin with a regular selection of English cheeses.

the havoc that it has already created across Europe is indicative of the fact that it is already broken and broken a long time ago, in fact from inception and in design

The production site of the new Mini electric is now in doubt. If BMW don't get some promisises from the British government it'll be built in Regensburg or Leipzig rather than the UK. The problem is that if they use a motor built in Germany it could be subject to customs on the way into Britain, on the way out again or both. Anyohow they want guarantees and cash from Britain to build it in Britain. I suspect the motor will come from Continental who already build the fast-charge verson of the Zoé (though most Zoé buyers opt for the Renault motor which is slower to charge but more efficient).

Conséquences du Brexit

Si la plupart des Mini sont aujourd’hui à 70 % produites au Royaume-Uni,q ui assure 70 % e la production, le nombreuses inconnues quant à l’issue du Brexit pousse le constructeur à changer son fusil d’épaule pour envisager deux autres sites de production, tous deux situés en Allemagne. Le premier est l’usine Regensburg , où certaines Mini sont d’ores et déjà produits, et le second est celle de Leipzig qui assure aujourd’hui l’assemblage de la BMW i3.

Pour le constructeur, la décision n’est pas simple et dépendra de l’évolution du Brexit, notamment au niveau des tarifs douaniers. Sur ce point, la mécanique n’est pas évidente, d’autant qu’on ne sait pas vers quoi vont aboutir les discussions entre le Royaume-Uni et l’Europe. «?Si vous produisez le moteur en Allemagne, que vous assemblez la voiture dans une usine britannique et que vous vendez cette voiture sur le marché allemand, les tarifs douaniers pourraient être remboursés?» a estimé le responsable du groupe, précisant avoir déjà renocntré à plusieurs reprises le ministe de l’industrie britannique, Greg Cack. Objectif : avoir un soutien et des garanties si le constructeur décide de conserver sa production outre-manche. Car si les négociations du Brexit tournent mal, Mini a beaucoup à perdre sur ses véhicules vendus à l’export. Le gouvernement britannique devra donc mettre la main à la poche pour convaincre son constructeur national d’industrialiser sa voiture électrique sur son territoire.

This is why Cable reckons that Brexit will never happen, it's slowly dawning that we will either have to accept a big fee or a big cost in jobs. Airbus, auto industry etc.

Leaving all those agencies, thru ecj means that we cede sovereignty, current gov plans for medicines & nuclear agencies are to just copy all EU laws- as new drugs are released/ regs updated - straight into UK law so we can still export/import drug/ nuclear material....

That's right the UK will just be implementing whatever drug & nuclear regs the EU decide without any input any more....

.... Cable's wrong tho, brexies will keep fapping away over whatever mogg, johnson, gove etc explain is best for them

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40530700 ]higher prices, less choice and poorer quality[/url]

New centrist grouping?

http://www.eurelations.uk/

https://theconversation.com/european-law-expert-uk-has-sparked-race-to-the-bottom-that-will-strip-citizens-of-their-rights-80518?

Whilst I agree with the analysis in that article, Kimbers, what it misses is that the leaders of the 27 I've listened to recognise that the Brits in their countries make a positive contribution and there is no need to use them as bargaining chips. They're simply welcome because they're useful. I can't see Macron or Merkel kicking anyone out, they're pragmatic humanists.

Unfortuneately Brexit Britain fails to recongnise the contribution made by EU citizens and is happy to bite of its tongue spite its face. Being heartless, uncaring expletive deleteds the Brexiters don't give a flying anything about the individuals concerned.

EU definitely using citizens as bargaining chips as demonsrated by refusing to discuss the issue for a year and then insisting the ECJ applies in a country outside the EU. May made a very generous offer predictably the High Priest of the EU chips in. 3m EU citizens in tje UK vs just 800,000 Brits in the EU most of them bringing money into relatively poor regions. It will be cheap for UK to pay emergwncy medical cover amd offer nhs cover for serious illness. If Brits abroad want foreign medical cover they can pay for it via local taxes or insurance like they do in Asia, US etc. I know plenty of retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal.

Edukator BMW can make the electric Mini wherever they wish. Very very inefficient to make one model elsewhere though. If they are serious they should just move the lot

Bloomberg has been picking up on EU budget discussions and how much local European government relies on grants, they are facing big cuts as fhe maijor contributors like France amd Germany don't wamt to pay the 16% increases required. Tough for Macron as he is already facing 50€ bn of austerity cuts to meet debt / gdp requirements

Germany is facing 6-8€ bn more pa to the EU and needing to find 30€bn extra pa for NATO. Plus Merkel has tk admit at least 60% of the 100€ bn of "loans" to Greece are in fact a GIFT

So far Chapeau to EU France and Germany for keeping this mostly out of the headlines and their smoke screen of the Brexit divorce bill.

Edukator it makes much more sense, financial and political to sign a free trade deal with Japan for cars than Europe. Focus on electric / hybrid at which they excel. Japanese manufacturers sell cars here with wto tariffs so can French and German manufacturers.

The posturing from the EU will get resolved as we export £10bn worth of cars/components and import £40bn worth from EU.

Its easy to see a tariff free trade deal with Japan favouring hybrids combined with anti-diesel tariffs/taxes. Remember Michael Gove is environment minister

1.2 million Brits living in the EU according to the UN.

May's offer wasn't generous, did you read Kimber's article Jamba.

Britain will continue to pay its contribution one way or another just as Norway and Switzerland do. The 27 are unlikely to agree to anything else.

Macron knows that growing your way out of economic stagnation is better than austerity. There is no talk of austerity in France.

Germany won't need to contribute any more either. Britain will continue to contribute and there's less need for cash as many European countires are doing better.

The headlines in France and Germany are a lot more realistic than the jingoistic little-Britain bile I see the Tory press. I have never seen the kind of provocative outrageous lies the tory press publishes on French or German news stands.

Edit: why would the Japanese invest in Britain when they will face tarifs at the whim of the EU on anything made in Britain, and can do a deal with the EU (which won't benefit Britian obviously).

Blimey, some abuse has finally been edited out. The world is changing ....

The Moderators asked me to report more a while back. I still ignore Junkyard though, seems best

I know plenty of [b]rich[/b] retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal.

FTFY

Japanese manufacturers sell cars here with wto tariffs so can French and German manufacturers.

Not any more, tarrifs slashed thanks to that new EU/Japan trade deal we are about to quit.

Brexit really is a fabulous step backwards in a global economy

DrJ - Member

I know plenty of rich retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal.

FTFY

Posted 46 minutes ago #

Jamby's at it again - remember, despite the platitudes and reasoning he does put forward, his world view is entirely corrupted by the fact that only rich people exist in that world view.

Everyone else is, well, superfluous.

His comments are littered with references to 'everyone', 'lots of people' etc - just remember he is only referring to people with enough dosh to be considered worthy of consideration.

Dannyh, in the interest of accuracy, Jamba's post didn't have the word 'rich' in it- that was inserted by DrJ.

I'll refrain from further comment.

Yes, I realised that - I couldn't be bothered (genuinely - not selective) to quote both and the quote function doesn't show strikethrough/bold etc unless you make it do so.

My point still stands. if you look back through Jamby's posts a good few state sweeping assertions that can only be true if you apply the subtext of only considering wealthy people.

For example:

"The rest of the world does just fine"

"I know plenty of retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal."

Nope on both counts. The rest of the world does not do very well if you consider all the billions of people on earth.

'Plenty' of people when applied to Asia would have to run into the hundreds of millions - I doubt Jamby's contacts number that many, even if he is simply [i]fab[/i] at networking.

Well perhaps France is the new model?

Macron/Phiippe promising tax cuts for the wealthy, public sector pay freezes, higher fag prices, and moves to cure France's addiction to debt.

😀

The posturing from the EU will get resolved as we export £10bn worth of cars/components and import £40bn worth from EU.

still the old ones are the best I see

Amazing that this has to be explained to a Brexiteer, [b]but some are willing to risk an economic hit for a political reasons[/b] !

also the actual numbers are £13bn vs £39bn not really jambafact more jambadeliberateroundingerror ?

http://www.acea.be/statistics/article/motor-vehicle-trade-between-the-uk-and-main-eu-partners

anyway the reality is that even german auto manufacturers which stand to lose the most realise the value of maintaining the single market & customs union over appeasing the foot stamping little englanders

http://news.sky.com/story/german-business-bosses-in-post-brexit-trade-warning-for-may-10942256

It seems the best thing you can do is close your eyes and keep shouting "they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, they need us more than we need them, ...."

until weve actually left and then say its all the germans fault when we loose all those manufacturers to countries that have trade deals with the worlds largest free trade zone....

I see cummings is doing his best to distance himself from brexit now its becoming apparent just how badly its going to shaft us

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/euratom-nuclear-body-government-favour-leaving-morons-vote-leave-campaign-director-dominic-cummings-a7833351.html

"I know plenty of retired people living in Asia and they pay for cover. Not a big deal."

As a matter of interest, does anyone know how much it costs for comprehensive(*) medical cover?

(*) I mean really comprehensive, not the sort that excludes pre-existing conditions, incurable illness etc and generally uses the NHS as a backup.

Well perhaps France is the new model?

Macron/Phiippe promising tax cuts for the wealthy, public sector pay freezes, higher fag prices, and moves to cure France's addiction to debt.

France has a way cooler leader than we do. Sad but true. Can we ask him to come here?

Brexiters showing their true colours, honestly wtf has that phrase in their lexicon that they'd accidentally drop it in a conversation?

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_59638608e4b02e9bdb0e2c77

My gran...

Edit. ^^^^ that's not my gran.

Macron/Phiippe promising tax cuts for the wealthy, public sector pay freezes, higher fag prices, and moves to cure France's addiction to debt.

Is the UK with its private debt any better???

I can't see the problem. That kind of language was perfectly acceptable in 1952. And that's where they're taking us, isn't it?

It's political correctness gone mad. Not to worry though. Only 18 months now, and all that kind of thing will all have been just a bad dream

I can't see the problem. That kind of language was perfectly acceptable in 1952. And that's where they're taking us, isn't it?

Surely its further back than that? I mean [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40556872 ]this guy[/url] like many of his ilk still have the empire mindset. More than enough reasons to pull the schools and universities they are educated at to the ground.

Moderators asked me to report more a while back.

Hmmmmm 🙄

binners - Member
I can't see the problem. That kind of language was perfectly acceptable in 1952. And that's where they're taking us, isn't it?

It's political correctness gone mad. Not to worry though. Only 18 months now, and all that kind of thing will all have been just a bad dream

Yeah, and kids be allowed to use the proper lyrics for eeny meeny as well too. Not that they'll dare to play games, what with the return of the birch (nevva did me any 'arm etc. etc.)

Apart from the economic holocaust a hard Brexit will cause, this is the thing that pisses me off most about Brexit. How utterly tosserish a lot of the 'taking back control' tub-thumping is.

Still, I still think it is either not going happen (less likely) or it will happen and will be so watered down it won't make any actual difference.

Then all the prats and blowhards can go **** themselves.

Apart from the economic holocaust a hard Brexit will cause, this is the thing that pisses me off most about Brexit. How utterly tosserish a lot of the 'taking back control' tub-thumping is.

What pisses me off, sf what it actually means. Does the average Express reader actually think THEY will be taking back control???

I don't think there's been much thinking going on at all from the Express and Mail reading fraternity

But when reality dawns on the senile old giffers who voted for it that their dream of a resurgent empire is just that, [url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/brexit-riots-would-be-shittest-riots-ever-20170710131459 ]expect trouble![/url]

Hard Brexit. The IMF published their revised forecast. It's pretty decent really considering they assumed not a single new trade deal of which in fact there will be many in the months following April 2019.

Anyone see Turnbull's comments today ? "we're Australians we get on with stuff" take note at the EU 😀

DrJ the majority I know retired in Asia do so as they don't have a lot of money and it's much cheaper to live there. They don't have major medical cover you describe, if they get really sick they will buy a flight to the UK and get treated here.

Brexiters showing their true colours, honestly wtf has that phrase in their lexicon that they'd accidentally drop it in a conversation?

Really, who says that and thinks it's ok / normal?

I once worked for a company owned by an Asian family. All of the board - and in fact, a large number of the employees - were of ****stani descent. I was in a meeting one day with a hot-shot new Sales Director who'd just been taken on, when he dropped "well, just to chuck another **** on the woodpile..." into conversation. He carried on talking regardless whilst the rest of the room exchanged awkward glances. That was the last time I saw him (I can only hope he was merely sacked).

Moderators asked me to report more a while back.

Hmmmmm

's true. Well, sort of. We (I) didn't suggest he reports "more" but rather he reports posts he finds objectionable. Third-party offence is challenging to moderate.

and kids be allowed to use the proper lyrics for eeny meeny as well too

The "proper" lyrics almost certainly aren't racist, that was a later corruption. We've discussed this before:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-new-low-for-the-professionally-outraged#post-8306322

[i]There's a variation of the rhyme which contains the word "****," but there's dozens of other variations too and there's nothing I'm aware of to suggest that this one was its "origin."[/i]

Hard Brexit. The IMF published their revised forecast. It's pretty decent really considering they assumed not a single new trade deal of which in fact there will be many in the months following April 2019.

Ok.

1) Have you got a link for that please? Just so we're working from the same source when discussing this.

2) What are these "many" trade deals? Who with?

3) Is there any indication that these trade deals will be better than remaining in the EU with the deals we already have, or is this just a "we might not be as severely ****ed as we thought" scenario?

in fact there will be many in the months following April 2019.Anyone see Turnbull's comments today ? "we're Australians we get on with stuff" take note at the EU

Jambafact !

Japan–Australia Economic Partnership Agreement
Took 7 years

China–Australia Free Trade Agreement
Took 9 years

Australia–United States Free Trade Agreement
5 years (first proposed after ww2 tho)

ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement
Joined after 24 years

Etc etc

More to the point aren't you always saying that the rest of the world don't need trade deals is all WTO Nirvana 😉

It's either brazen lies or just delusion ?

European Medical Agency. BTW heard an interesting discussion on the radio a few days ago. The EMA is in the UK as we are Europe's leading Pharmaceutical centre of excellence. So moving the agency will be very difficult as the continent doesn't have the people and the majority of the key staff are British anyway.

Euro Clearing. Barclays chairmen pointed out that clearing is very much an economy of scale businesses. Trying to move euro clearing to Europe whilst it makes political sense will be unlikely to work economically as the other currencies / business volumes won't be there nor will the significant netting benefits (multiple currency trades with same counterparty).

rather he reports posts he finds objectionable. Third-party offence is challenging to moderate.

So I get bounced for a month for asking a question, and a threat of more banning because I said he may be thin skinned.

Yet dear old Jamba continues to troll, misrepresent, make stuff up with impunity.

Funny old world.

European Medical Agency. BTW heard an interesting discussion on the radio a few days ago. The EMA is in the UK as we are Europe's leading Pharmaceutical centre of excellence. So moving the agency will be very difficult as the continent doesn't have the people and the majority of the key staff are British anyway

Agreed we are currently a leader in pharmaceutical r&d, Brexit obviously set to change all that.

Unless you think we will be staying under the purview of the ECJ?
Perhaps someone should tell the ema a staff as I understand it they preparing to move to Strasbourg.

Kimbers I am merely reporting what he actually said, I watched a bit of the press conference. I'll get a link it was on Brexit Central 😉

Cougar May spoke to China, India, Japan, Australia and of course The Donald all of whom are keen to move quickly. Tariff free trade in cars with Japan please, they even drive on the correct side of the road. Hybrid / electric is the future and the Japanese lead, McClaren are pretty good too, supposedly Apple where interested in the tech / company for around $2bn. Get a JV going.

Will get the revised IMF link (and enough to have their app on my phone/ipad, they even apologised for being overly negative about the impacts during the campaign, not interfering politicly of course, no ... Consensus now is that a WTO Brexit may cause a period of lower growth assuming no new trade deals but we will still grow, so the cost is an opportunity one as such. of course we will never know for sure what the opportunity cost of being an EU member was given the far superior growth in the rest of the world

Yet dear old Jamba continues to troll, misrepresent, make stuff up with impunity.

Really I am never trolling, just posting that I think. As for making stuff up treat everything as "in my opinion". I don't abuse people personally or call them names, call that impunity if you like. I don't want to see anyone banned but after a bit the abuse get's rather tedious especially when people who don't even post email me to ask how I put up with it. There is a hell of a lot of "play the man not the ball" on here

Then don't say stuff like Hillary has had a stroke, when you have no proof. None zippo nada.

And don't play the victim either, that is pitiful. You know exactly what you do

. of course we will never know for sure what the opportunity cost of being an EU member was given the far superior growth in the rest of the world

Pick a country that's either not developing or a tax haven and has better growth than us

We're about 10th on that list then

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_growth_rate

So I get bounced for a month for asking a question, and a threat of more banning because I said he may be thin skinned.

#Pigfact

The "question" you asked was "are you just a little bit thick as mince?" directed at another forum user, which was clearly intended to be an insult however weaselly you phrase it.

You weren't banned for a month for "asking a question," you were banned for a month because you've been warned multiple times about making personal insults and so it's cumulative damage. This includes a previous ban which clearly made no difference, yet still you persist.

Yet dear old Jamba continues to troll, misrepresent, make stuff up with impunity.

It's not policy to censor opinion irrespective of how misguided that opinion may be, and for all Jamba's... contentious views I can't actually recall a time where he was offensive or abusive to another forum member.

Alternative facts are not a crime!

Cougar May spoke to China, India, Japan, Australia and of course The Donald all of whom are keen to move quickly.

I'm not convinced that you can directly extrapolate 'May spoke to a country representative who is keen to move quickly' into "there will be many [trade deals] in the months following April 2019." People talk to people all the time.

And as I said before - are these likely to be better than the deals we already have?

Tariff free trade in cars with Japan please

Um... we just got that like last week via the EU and yet with Brexit we're going to opt out of it? How's that work then?

If it's taken 40 years for Europe to negotiate a deal with Japan, how long is it likely to take a rainy European cul-de-sac to broker a similar deal (or indeed any deal at all)? You reckon our corner shop is going to have the same bargaining power as Tesco?

Will get the revised IMF link

Thank you.

Pigfact genius 😆

You may call it weasely, bit harsh from a mod who can weird the ban hammer.

I was going to edit the weird to wield but quite like the image of a weird ban hammer

And don't play the victim either, that is pitiful.

He wasn't playing the victim, he was replying to your accusation.

(In the spirit of the thread I suppose he should just accept he's lost, shut up and get on with it...)

Cougar May

I've just had to swallow some sick after misreading that sentence....

Oh get off it Cougar, that is Jamba sticking out his lower lip and whining like a pup.

You may call it weasely, bit harsh from a mod who can weird the ban hammer.

Do I weird the ban hammer, or does the ban hammer weird me?

Is that any more harsh than implying that I would abuse my position in order to censor discussion, hmm?

Warnings and bans are (broadly) conducted in private. If you're going to take it public in order to make disingenuous claims about how you were unfairly treated, then I'm equally going to respond in public. If you don't like that, eh, don't start flinging mud.

It was absolutely weaselly, you posed it as a question rather than a statement so that you could go "I was only asking a question" if pulled up on it. I know this for a fact because it's exactly the sort of linguistic bollocks I'd pull if I was trying to get away way it.

BAN YOURSELF

Didn't someone just say playing the victim is pathetic 😆

that is Jamba sticking out his lower lip and whining like a pup.

Aha, irony.

Cougar May

I've just had to swallow some sick after misreading that sentence....

Deja vu.

Isn't irony allowed?

May spoke to China, India, Japan, Australia and of course The Donald all of whom are keen to move quickly.

Isn't irony allowed?

Yes. Ironically.

It's not policy to censor opinion irrespective of how misguided that opinion

It's not the opinion that irritates, it's things like stating there are 800 000 Brits living in other EU countries. I can't find find as figure as low as that published anywhere. Even the latest British government estimates which have been massaged as low as possible state 900 000 while the UN states 1 200 000.

Looking a France as a case in point the ONS gave 157 062 earlier this year. Going back to 2005 INSEE (the French statistics office) put the number at 128 000. Now the amusing thing is that at the time the British government (edit: via its embassy) estimated the true figure at around 500 000 because "there is no obligation to register in France". The 128 000 figure is based on those offcially registered in France because they are registered with the employment and health authorities and/or have a carte de séjour. The 500 000 estimate is entirely plausible but since the Brexit negociations meant minimising the number of Brits in Europe they only count people offiially resident in France rather than including those indulging in unregistered freedom of movement.

So Jambalaya takes an unrealistically low figure that suits his agenda then knocks off 10% before posting. Check my posting through this thread. You'll find I regularly correct the figures Jamba posts with a link to the source or a credit to the source.

Personally I find repeated misrepresentation of information more offensive than Molgrips calling me a prick (hi Molgrips just an example 🙂 ). Because it insults my intelligence, it takes me for a fool and it demonstrates I'm dealing with someone who won't play fair.

He not the only one doing it. In the context of Brexit it was the whole leave campaign, and now it's the elected government (and opposition too).

Nonetheless, it would be wrong to censor that at a moderatorial* level. Rather, it becomes self-policing - people call out 'fake news'. Welcome to debate. Is it not better to challenge BS with facts than to forcibly silence those who we believe are wrong? "It's a democracy so shut up..."

(* - is that a word?)