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@Del 85% of voters in the GE voted for parties that support "hard" Brexit namely no freedom of movement, thus no single market and no customs union membership.
again jambon, as you repeat your rhetoric, i repeat mine, it was about making sure maybot didn't get her mandate. she got ****ed. bent over. reduced to keeping the company of religious bigots. you keep on, but you'll be rearranging the deckchairs as the ship goes down. it's falling apart. in the words of THM, get over it.
Lots of reports on Newsnight about people related to Brexit doubting it will ever actually happen.
kerley - MemberYou seem to be assuming (wrongly) that a vote for Labour was a vote for Brexit.
Ah, you assume he thinks it's true
EU is doomed within this generation.
Good thing is that you will again witness history in the making but this time it is the collapse of EU.
Big time.
😆
edit: everyone that I have spoken to want to leave the pass and get on with leaving ... nobody wants to look back ... nobody. 😆
The A50 trigger vote was passed my a landslide.
Oh what bollox.
I just heard on the World Service that the EU and Japan are to conclude a trade deal on Thursday. It's been four years in the making.
chewkw - Member
[s]EU[/s] UK is doomed within this generation.
FTFY 😆
edit: everyone that I have spoken to want to leave the pass and get on with leaving ... nobody wants to look back ... nobody.
Judge a man by the company he keeps?
In contrast I've met very few who think it's either a good idea or want to.
Britain needs to negotiate a Brexit deal....
A what, Jeremy?
that puts our economy and living standards first. That won’tbe achieved by empty slogans and posturing.
Hear, hear...but wait a minute...
Instead we need a jobs-first Brexit that allows us to upgrade our economy for the 21st century.
Oh I see, not Brexshit at all and no empty slogans and posturing. Phew, for one moment........
A japan Eu free trade deal where the tariffs on importing cars will be lower than importing from the UK into the EU.
Why would you bother making cars in the UK?
It's closer. Distance costs in time and money.
Chewkw - not surprised no one you meet is willing to tell you they want to get shot of Brexit. You come across as a slightly mad religious zealot for Brexit (a Zombie Mayggot if you will). People will tell you exactly what you want to hear.
Try getting out of your bubble. If no one is telling you Brexit is bad, either they are lying to you about their opinions or you only meet an odd cross section of society.
igm - Member
It's closer. Distance costs in time and money.
There will be an equation though, the real question is if it's cheaper to scale up EU factories for RHD cars than manufacture in the UK. What a time to be putting trade barriers in place.
Cynical moment but if it's your UK made cars are undercutting your EU made ones whats to stop you moving all production to the EU. Uk gets no choice in buying more expensive cars.
Mike - agreed
Good thing is that you will again witness history in the making
Is this a euphemism for WW3 (which I know is what your twisted mind is craving)?
It's closer. Distance costs in time and money.
agreed, i was on the phone so didn't fancy writing a longer comment.
Does make you wonder how Renault-Nissan will look at Sunderland for example. Does it still make sense to have a plant outside the EU servicing the EU when there are tariffs in place.
Obviously means that the cost of Shimano bike parts will fall by 6% ish (5%ish tariff + 20% vat) although the sterling shift was greater. Leave the EU prices go up again. Another knock to the inflation rate? Obviously will cover many more areas but it was the first example that occurred to me
Obviously means that the cost of Shimano bike parts will fall
And that is one of the most common reasons I hear for people voting for Brexit.
It is very interesting how the tone of the popular press has changed post election. The previously rabidly pro-Brexit Telegraph has softened it's stance, as has the Murdoch owned Times which has printed opinion pieces suggesting that Brexit would be a disaster. It's abundantly clear that the political vision of Brexit differs markedly from that offered prior to the referendum (Daniel Hannan's famous statement that a leave vote would not entail leaving the single market is completely at odds with the party line post referendum). We're desperately short of staff for the NHS, the economy appears moribund, stricken with poor productivity and lagging behind our European counterparts who've been returned to strong growth. Even Greece is now in surplus.
The hard right of the Conservatives wanted hard Brexit for a number of reasons, not least of which would have been deregulation across the board and the idea that if you apply sufficiently large shock to a stagnant economy, the resulting damage sparks a strong recovery. They'd have traded the economic shock theory for influence of EU regulations - which we'll still have to abide by if we wish to trade with the EU. In many ways, the soft-Brexit approach is the worst of all worlds for the hard right, but it's beginning to dawn on them that they face a struggle to get the required legislation through a hostile parliament and House of Lords and that popular support for leaving the EU appears to be on the wane - no-one wants to be made poorer and less secure in their jobs as a result.
It may be coincidental that a large sum of money given to the Vote Leave campaign was routed via the DUP and originated in Saudi Arabia, meanwhile Theresa May is sitting on a potentially explosive report into Saudi funding of extremism in the UK. [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-foreign-terror-funding-report-uk-extremists-saudi-arabia-isis-security-intelligence-a7822121.html ]The Independent[/url]
Does make you wonder how Renault-Nissan will look at Sunderland for example. Does it still make sense to have a plant outside the EU servicing the EU when there are tariffs in place.
I meet with decision makers from Nissan every few weeks. They're all Paris based. Draw whatever conclusions you want.
telegraph havent just softened their stance
they must be crapping it as theyare now doing complete 180s!
I meet with decision makers from Nissan every few weeks. They're all Paris based. Draw whatever conclusions you want.
Better cuisine?
Better jumpers?
Better jumpers?
I'll have you know the Romans thought very highly of the birrus britannicus,
A japan Eu free trade deal where the tariffs on importing cars will be lower than importing from the UK into the EU.
But, but... We'll negotiate a World Class deal that's red white and blue. Or something. Won't we?
Well, red and white
This just in:
Rupert Myers, political editor at the Telegraph has tweeted that Brexit is a "shit idea".
He further tweeted: "I'd love a low tax, small state, global Britain, but I don't want to get there by lying to people & tanking the economy".
[Correction] He's a political correspondent at the Telegraph and GQ, not Political Editor.
I meet with decision makers from Nissan every few weeks. They're all Paris based. Draw whatever conclusions you want.
Boss's family live there?
Our pet Leave-liars told me Turkey was about to join and flood this wonderful island with brown Muslim immigrants.
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And yet the EU parliament has voted to suspend accession talks today.
It's like all their lies are backfiring isn't it? 🙁
The Eurozone implosion starts Monday though, right?
I meet with decision makers from Nissan every few weeks. They're all Paris based. Draw whatever conclusions you want.
Jamby runs nissan?
Telegraph article is unbelievable. It's that twunt who convinced my naive tory parents to vote leave. Nice one, press
How long till the Telegraph starts to really campaign for remain?????
Like millions of others I voted labour against Mays hard brexit
@kimbers there is in reality pretty much zero difference between Labour and Tories on Brexit. May / Tories have been straight with people and have said no deal is better than a bad deal, thays obviously true. Sir Kir Starmer has a ludicrous position that he would get tariff free access to THE single market without freedom od movement. The EU have been clear that's not possible. A Labour government would deliver much fhe same Brexit as Toires in the best case and a totally appalling deal in the worst case (eg higher budget contributions and renege on their no freedom of movement commitment)
In order to win seats in the North Labour committed fully to Brexit.
May / Tories have been straight with people and have said no deal is better than a bad deal, thays obviously true
No deal is actually just a very bad deal.
P.S. When is the Eurozone meltdown happening? I was in France until Wednesday, they didn't seem to know about it. Should I have told them?
Corbyn is a lifelong Eurosceptic. Labour's position amd their Referendum campaign reflects that. Remainers voting Labour are naive in the extreme if they believe thats a "pro-EU" / "soft" Brexit option. It is not.
BMW make all their X5's in the US (as far as I am aware) - how does that work fhen ? We import £40bn worth of cars, we export £10bn worth. Moving a car factory costs a very large amount of money. Its simply not goingto happen anytime soon if at all. The UK is Germany's third largest market globally for car exports.
Has ANYONE seen ANY mention that an EU / Japan free trade deal would include blanket tariff free car import / exports ? I have seen very very little press around any such deal.
I see Barnier made a total @rse of himself today by saying; No sector by secror trade deal, no single market without freedom of movement. Well the EU just signed a sector by sector free trade deal with Canada with zero budget contributions and no freedom of movement. We are not looking for access to THE single market. We are not remaining in the customs union
@mrlebowski the A50 Trigger Bill was passed by 498 votes to 114 - that's a landslide in anyone's book. It was fully backed by the Labour leadership.
The Eurozone implosion starts Monday though, right?
Wrong, it happened years ago.Just look at the carnage in terms of unemployment, 30% fall !in wages, real austerity not our pretend versions etc.. Amazing how blind some can be to others' misfortunes. The EZ has been a catastrophe.
Sorry Jambas but the ONE thing we are seeking is ACCESS to the single market. It's only the how that is open to debate.
said no deal is better than a bad deal, thays obviously true
Its empty rhetoric that appeals to the rabidly Brexitty that is also patently false as no deal is just a worse bad deal than a bad deal
As for cars, and i am sick of having to point out the industry disagree but here it is again for you to ignore
During the negotiations, government should pursue a twin-track approach to avoid any risk of the UK leaving the EU without having established new trading terms with the EU. If such a “cliff-edge” occurred, the UK would be required to trade on the basis of World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules. This would see the application of a 10% tariff on vehicles and an average 4.5% tariff on components which will increase the cost of production, undermine competitiveness and potentially increase the cost of cars for consumers. SMMT analysis suggests that the UK motor industry faces a £4.5 billion tariff cost for cars alone which could add at least an annual £2.7 billion to imports and £1.8 billion to exports. Import tariffs could push up the list price of cars imported to the UK from the EU by an average of £1,500 if brands and their retail networks were unable to absorb these additional costs. It could also result in the introduction of significant non-tariff barriers, the loss of passporting rights for services and the prospect of having to certify exports as being compliant with EU rules which will create significant administrative burdens and additional costs. Should at the end of the negotiating period there not be an agreement on a future relationship, current arrangements should continue to apply to ensure continuity and certainty. In the longer term, government must ensure that the UK's new trading terms with the EU and the rest of the world are as good as or better than those already enjoyed by the automotive sector. To secure this, government and industry must strategically engage throughout the negotiations on the transition towards a new trading relationship with the EU and the establishment of new global opportunities.
the industries view for those who like facts from experts
Well the EU just signed a sector by sector free trade deal with Canada with zero budget contributions and no freedom of movement. We are not looking for access to THE single market. We are not remaining in the customs union
We meaning Jamby there isn't it?
Most of British industry and business wants access and in facts wants to be a member of the EU for some strange reason.
BMW make all their X5's in the US (as far as I am aware) - how does that work fhen ? We import £40bn worth of cars, we export £10bn worth. Moving a car factory costs a very large amount of money. Its simply not goingto happen anytime soon if at all. The UK is Germany's third largest market globally for car exports.
Which is why they just migrate a new model when it comes online and run down/mothball factories - take a look at Toyota, Ford and GM/Holden in Australia all are off to Asia.
If you make no cars in the UK then all cars are subject to a tariff makes it level.
Also from one of the basic rules of management and decision making No Deal/No Decision is in itself a concious choice. It is by it's very nature a deal/decison it's on the table right now. We could jump to that right now.
Some quick examples of the real WE
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and Fox has his Trump moment - they ar all picking on me
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If your pleading for sympatetic coverage then you have lost.
As if Brexit wasn't a shambles enough we have politicians pleading with the press to be gentle!
Remainers clickbait for struggling newspapers/websites. Look at the posters here desperate for any straw to clutch to have the Referendum overturned / watered down ?
Makes perfect sense for Nissan's European senior mgmt to be in France given Renault link up. Doesn't change the costs of moving prodiction or the commitment to build the new Quasquai in UK
I'll say again there is very little differemce between Labour and Tories on Brexit. Labour are being dishonest in trying to preach a "soft Brexit" message when its not possible given their manifesto commitment on freedom of movement.
If may had achieved the landslide everyone predicted good be the first to crow about her mandate for brexit. The Tories got thier arses handed to them. The British people don't have the stomach for brexit now they know what it means.
The Telegraph is doing "Remainer click bait" now is it? 😆
#losingxontrol
As an aside, the Japan deal gives them access to the single market with very few of the benefits. It only took ten years (or maybe even more).
Of course as they need us more than we need them, we'll have all this sorted in 18 months won't we?
The levels of delusion regarding trade deals and the impact of crashing out to WTO are only indicative of the blind optimism of zealous Brexiteers. They just have to shout it all a bit louder as they see the shambles unfolding and the tide of public opinion turning against them. And order the press to not expose their lies.
Jam is unable to look at this objectively, and can only look at things personally, it seems.
I'll say again
You can repeat the same thing 10,000 times if you like. We still won't believe it.
Despite all the request they are not publishing the letter they had to send to "bribe" them to stay and we have not even left yet.
Its clear they do not support a WTO arrangement and that the automotive industry expects and wants free trade to remain despite jambys political message remaining unchanged by reality
Actually, Jamba is quite correct to point out that Renault and Nissan have merged and that Paris would be a logical headquarters for the European operation.
However, making cars isn't simply a case of generating profit in the nation in which the final assembly takes place. There's a supply chain, Johnson Controls, Magnetti Marelli, Lucas, Smiths (in it's successor company forms), Bosch etc have plants all over Europe which supply semi-built ancillaries in a modular format to a specification issued by the manufacturer. These will be sourced from a wide geographical area and supplied to factories on a just in time basis.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that crashing out of the customs union would put the kybosh on this. It's not just our auto industry - look at aerospace. The complete wing for an Airbus is built in Wales, by a highly skilled workforce. How are we meant to export these complete wing structures for final assembly in Toulouse? Our Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35 jets are both built in several countries and rely on the Customs Union in order to be constructed.
No straw clutching here jamby, brexit is dead already, I'm just enjoying the show.
I wouldn't say Brexit is dead yet. The morons are still in charge. remember we don't need experts.
To be honest whatever the fall out the UK is going to suffer, we will loose the various agencies, we will lose a number of companies etc. wages and inflation are still going to hurt many people. We are going to lose the rebate, and the various opt outs.
If Brexit is finally killed i am personally in favour of a hard remain, drive on the right, ban imperial measurements, Schengen etc. If your going to piss on Murdoch and the Tories you might as well do the job properly!
If Brexit isn't killed, lots will desert the country because it will get poorer. If you want evidence look around the world and ask why the Irish are virtually everywhere, that is the future of Brexit England. For those that stay, when they realise that taking back control only meant Oxbridge/Eton types and not the voters.
If Brexit isn't killed, lots will desert the country because it will get poorer
Only the foreigners. The Brits won't be able to, unless they are lucky. We'll be stuck here.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40520218 ]Example of the EU being unable to make trade deals[/url]
Anyone who wants to can leave now (personal circumstances allowing). Though I believe some other countries are a bit more restrictive about freedom of movement than the UK has chosen to be.
Brexit is starting to get really funny.
Here's laughing at you Brexy.
Japan won't be so happy when 500000000 turks rock up at their door.
Only the foreigners. The Brits won't be able to, unless they are lucky. We'll be stuck here.
Be a bit more positive, if you have the skills and/or are young there are options. NZ/Aus working visas etc. I am sure Macron would be happy to accept UK engineers and scientists...
And obviously if you are rich you can buy citizenship virtually anywhere.
Headline of the Telegraph is click bait????
Wonders if Jamba has suffered a concussion
Nope. No concussion. Brexies in denial.
But, but, but everyone voted for economic meltdown and no jobs*
OK only 85% and I may have overplayed Brexit a little.
Brexit is done and dusted, we are leaving. The only question is the type of post Brexit trade arrangement. Both main parties agree no freedom of movement and hence no single market (so says the EU).
Tried to find some details of the EU / Japan "trade deal" really there are none apart from Donald Tusk talking it up as per the link above. Supposedly there could be a 15 year transition period to help both "countries" adjust. [b]15 years ffs[/b] 😯 seems the Japanese get to sell tariff free cars and the Europeans milk, err great deal mes amis / meine freuden 😳 oh and the deal isn't actaully done yet after 4 years just an oitline agreement in principal. The EU hasn't signed a meaningful trade deal ever aside from Canada and that took 8 years
Jambalaya your posts remind me of some of the highly ineffective project managers and leads I've worked with. When faced with criticism that they are driving the wrong way down a one way street the only thought is to go faster so that things cannot be undone.
Your Brexit at any cost plan isn't supported by most people, nobody (including those who voted tory and labour agree that they also didn't vote for Brexit) has the stomach for the massive pain that will follow. Business doesn't want it.
Also took about 2s on google
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/eu-japan-economic-partnership-agreement/agreement-explained/
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/eu-japan-economic-partnership-agreement/
Couldn't find or didn't want to?
One of the great things about our unwritten constitution and amendments is that we've ultimately ended up with a parliamentary system whereby the best of us are in theory nominated to stand and represent our interests.
Now, democracy often gets it wrong, but it will occasionally make a huge difference. Honestly, did everyone who voted leave do so with the fullest of information in front of them? Heck, I voted Remain with only my interpretation of the facts.
So here we are, no-one either Leave or Remain voted to be without the Single Market. Nor did anyone vote against a common policy on atomic research.
But the result and thinking isn't binary. There's stuff noone considered publicly. Empire 2.0 isn't the answer, nor is a racist, freewheelin' "truly global" economy with low skills, low productivity and zero rights for the wage slaves turning the cogs.
That window is closing. The hard right of the Conservative Party needs to confront the fact that the in-fighting and constant policy blunders will render the entire party an irrelevance for a decade, or it will be forever be utterly divisive and controversial.
This is the worst loss of collective face since Suez.
It's ok trump says a UK US trade deal will be done 'very quickly'
One cannot wait to see what the orange one comes up with and v whether it'll be as efficiently handled as his Muslim ban, trumpcare or that wall he built 😉
His next line will be "who could have known a trade deal could be so complicated"
Trump trade deal with the U.K.:
"You WILL take anything we in the USA make. We might take range rovers."
I can't wait for steroid-marinated beef.
Given Trump has been clear he will make deals in the interest of the US then surely no deal is better than a bad deal 😉
Yay, chlorine washed chicken heading our way!
It's ok trump says a UK US trade deal will be done 'very quickly'
Isn't it obvious? We lease Trident, our aircraft carriers will need US help, the US airbases etc....
We will soon be annexed by the US.
Any deal can be done quickly if only one side is stating the terms for the other to accept.
Say hello to labels on meat and milk that say hormone fed animals show are good for you...
Still as everyone seems to keep voting for people who want us to be like the USA as soon as we jettison the eu we can also get rid of those nasty things like holidays, unions, consumer rights, competition laws..,
we can also get rid of those nasty things like holidays, unions, consumer rights, competition laws..,
Early doors on the sherbert?
Surprised (1) that the Brexshit Bugle published that and (2) that Javed hasn't realised that the vote was lost. Amnesia?
Surprised (1) that the Brexshit Bugle published that and (2) that Javed hasn't realised that the vote was lost. Amnesia?
Hmmm, that vote was so last year, this years election results tell a slightly different story.
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True, having. a GE with the two main parties both committed to Brexit was pretty clear. Agreed. Amazing how so many can't let the old vote go, isn't it?
True, having. a GE with the two main parties both committed to Brexit was pretty clear. Agreed. Amazing how so many can't let the old vote go, isn't it?
It doesn't matter whether both parties(for political reasons) are "committed" to brexit, when the dream meets the hard reality of the costs, the dream dies.
More like a nightmare, but sadly this is not one that you can wake up from...
More like a nightmare, but sadly this is not one that you can wake up from...
Being honest even if Brexit happens, it won't last IMO, the reasons the UK joined in the first place are still valid. The UK is a lost post imperial country that can't get over it.
Why not?
The EU is very different from the "thing" we enjoyed. Very different. It also has is own problems which are irreconcilable. Hence my commens on P1
Take a look at @BBCNewsnight's Tweet: https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/882721353329135616?s=09
Heh, it's impossible
You are surprised people have principles and feel that Brexit was won on a fabric of lies ...why exactly should we be getting behind it?Amazing how so many can't let the old vote go, isn't it?
Surely the last few bouts of voting has shown you almost anything is possible ?this is not one that you can wake up from
I dont think we can ignore the vote, we have to try and do Brexit [ genuinely try] but i see nothing wrong with getting a deal and then asking the populous if they want that or to remain.
How many years will you explain why the EU must fail before you accept it has not failed?
Ten ? twenty? Forty?
Genuine question as you are still predicting its demise and always will so is there a cut of point for you?
Currently at a wedding in France and feeling very European.
🙂