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Arguably Suez was the last time we threw our weight around
No, we thought we could and were soon put back in our post colonial box by the US. That was when we stopped being a 'world power' its just it has taken us 60 or so years to recognise it.
I've posted this link before but it's an interesting read nonetheless.
http://www.economist.com/node/7218678
I've posted this link before but it's an interesting read nonetheless.
Excellent read thanks for sharing
Excellent read thanks for sharing
+1
No, we thought we could and were soon put back in our post colonial box by the US.
Sorry, yes - I meant 'tried' to throw our weight around.
Suez is interesting, my grandfather, who had been a career soldier before and after WW2 and saw all sorts of s***, resigned his commission from the army in protest at what went on there.
Caroline Flint gets it and has listened to her constituents
Caroline Flint will only ever act in whatever manner gets her back on the telly so she can flick her hair a lot whilst hamming it up.
She would have been a Tory anyway, it's just that the opportunity to gain prominence was probably quicker with Labour when she started out.
Suez wasn't the last time IMO, Cod wars, which we lost were.
It's been a year, still no brexie, let alone our government have come up with a plan yet
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everyday, brexit keeps on giving, you would have hoped that some semblance of a plan would be in place. but no.
Well there is a plan, EU pulling bodies, EU companies dropping UK suppliers.
All going so well!
Just had a discussion with a German colleague about Brexit. He's a decent bloke, it seems, but he's quite anti-EU.
He made good points about the shortcomings of the EU. He also said that the press in Germany was controlled by the government and is forced to be pro-EU - even to the point of having the same articles in different papers. But there no-one believes the press apparently in contrast to here.
Also interesting to consider how different a Dexit would be to a Brexit...
kimbers - Member
It's been a year, still no brexie, let alone our government have come up with a plan yet
Naahhh ... nobody is reading your news ... nobody ... nobody gives a monkey about The Times Newspaper headline.
[b]All eyes on that beautiful lady in green Miranda Kerr. [/b] 😆
She is so cute with eye colour matching her tight dress. .. OHhh ... 
i think tomorrows Sun has what you are looking for chewy
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meanwhile
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kimbers - Member
i think tomorrows Sun has what you are looking for chewy
Crikey ... is that the headline news? 😯 (btw I don't buy newspaper at all)
What newspaper is the second one? The Canterbury Tale? 😆
Chewkw made a real funny! 😆chewkw - MemberWhat newspaper is the second one? The Canterbury Tale?
I think maybot is describing the image on the front of the sun
Crikey ... is that the headline news?
it's to alter the positive public perception of firefighters, as the government are currently looking bad for cutting services.
@molgrips same with the press in France. As I have posted before its wrong to suggest eurosceptism is a UK phenomenon. When the French had a referendum on an EU constitution they rejected it. Swiss voted to end freedom of movement (hard to implement admitedly). The Norwegians voted not to join ....
@kimbers given Cameron made no plans for a Leave result and jumped immediatey it's not surprising May waited 9 months is it ?
As I have posted before its wrong to suggest eurosceptism is a UK phenomenon
well, done you! newsflash: not everyone thinks everything the eu does is terrific! you heard it here first!
it's a good thing you're here!
🙄
Cameron made no plans for a Leave result
Why would he, Jamba? He didn't support it. (And was smart enough not to be the one implementing it.)
@kimbers given Cameron made no plans for a Leave result and jumped immediatey it's not surprising May waited 9 months is it ?
It should have been number 1 priority way ahead of calling an election.
9 Months out of 24 that is nearly 1/3 of the time.
It is scandelous the UK has no agreed plan at this stage.
Be fair. 'Tis only 3 months since the start of the 24. Still incompetent.
sorry my mistake, you would have thought all that time would have been used to come up with the plan....
There are conspiracy theories in France and Germany too. But the idea the government makes papers print positive stuff about the EU doesn't stand up. I could fill this page with anti-eu stories. [img] 
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Maybe Cameron spent 5 mins thinking about it and worked out there was no sensible plan, like any reasonably intelligent person could have done.
As I have posted before
Gather round and listen to the words of jamba - balanced and reliable commentator.
who always always remembers exactly what he has posted on here 😉
It's amazing really.
The Tories are jockeying for position in the race to replace May, the only thing that's pertinent to us is whose it going to be & secondly what we are going to get.
A softer Brexit? Well, the Tory party might just about survive & whose at the helm for that will be feted by the party loyalists.
A hard Brexit? Major damage to the Tories as it seems only a small minority of MPs support that.
The question will cone down to not what sort of Brexit is best but what do they (the Tory grandees) want to happen to the party.
Disappear up it's own @rse in a toxic puff of RW p1ss & wind?
Or survive by muzzling or kicking out the haterz & going for a softer Brexit?
Who knows, a softer Brexit might - MIGHT - just convince some of the electorate to forgive them.
Very interesting article on the Conservative election campaign here:
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/26/tory-election-machine-fell-apart-negative-tactics ]The Guardian[/url]
Their lack of any positive message in the election, or any detail about what their supposed mandate for leaving the EU was supposed to bring is telling. It's becoming increasingly more obvious that there's a talent vacuum at the top and that they're making it up as they go along.
bigrich - Memberit's to alter the positive public perception of firefighters, as the government are currently looking bad for cutting services.
Yup, people are feeling disturbingly positive towards the emergency services after Manchester, the London attacks and Grenfell so it's time to get things back on track.
Who knows, a softer Brexit might - MIGHT - just convince some of the electorate to forgive them.
She can have my vote for the usual rate, £100M, paypal to my email address (in profile) is fine.
Ha ha, indeed!
Portuguese colleague, obvs concerned about Maybots Rhetoric just checked, even with 10 years residence her & her husband will have to find 2.5grand each to apply for settled status.
On a science salary., in london thats not easy to find!
I can see many EU citizens leaving well before brexit happens
@kimbers foreign students find far more than that for tuiton fees and accomodation costs. I suspect borrowing £2.5k between them will be more appealing than no job for either back in Portugal.
In other news the EU commission are at least talking about the €10 billions pa hole in their budget post Brexit. Sadly this guy's solution seems to be an EU Army as that will save €25-100bn a year for member states 😯 Given the EU cannot properly manage borders or money God knows what a disaster an Army will be.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/commissioners/2014-2019/oettinger/blog/what-your-europe-worth_en
Jamba - their just going to fine google on a regular basis aren't they? Might need to do Apple and a couple of others too, but regular fines - it's the future.
I suspect borrowing £2.5k between them will be more appealing than no job for either back in Portugal.
That'd be 5k between them, are u sure you're in finance?
And funnily enough there's not just Portugal in the rEU....
As for the 10bn a year hole..... So you're now saying we don't send 350m a so to the EU?
I wonder where the EU can find 60bn for their next 7 he budget cycle..... Oh yeah Davis is about to pony that up in his deft handling of the divorce bill
Brexishambles all the way !
Kimbers - remember the exchange rate is moving still. £350 a week will be €10b a year very soon. 😉
To be fair to Jamba I don't think he claimed £350m a week I think he said £10b a year, which was still an over estimate - €10b a year is not to far off at current exchange rates (though I will admit I don't know if the club subs are paid in euros or Brexy dollars)
To be fair to Jamba I don't think he claimed £350m a week
He did - for ages.
I imagine he will do again.
As for the army?
Way too many obstacles for that to ever happen - so talk of one is just more BS. Ignore anyone who tries to say otherwise as it'll be another Brexie lie to try & drum up support.
Funnily enough, an EU foreign policy and potentially army was something i was quite positive about and i'm not an EU / Remain fan at all.
I still cant see any evidence that Brexit is going to be a problem and cant believe how polarized everyone is. The EU does / did sod all that was any good for UK - single currency - no, Shenghen - no, democratic - no, accountable - no, a positive economic force - no, cost effective - no. lets just accept the democratic vote and get on with it.
The EU does / did sod all that was any good for UK
It increased trade and boosted our economy.
It gave me freedom of movement so I could work abroad.
It made my neighbourhood more international and enriched my life.
It allowed me to meet my wife too.
Portuguese colleague, obvs concerned about Maybots Rhetoric just checked, even with 10 years residence her & her husband will have to find 2.5grand each to apply for settled status.
Really? Where did she check? The side of a bus?
Says here it's sixty-five quid:
https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate/permanent-residence
😯I still cant see any evidence that Brexit is going to be a problem
That is like claiming May is doing a great job and you cannot see any reason to criticise her or claiming the PLP loved Corbyn pre election.
Its fine to support your side but not the point of delusion
still cant see any evidence that Brexit is going to be a problem
Because it's going so fing swimmingly well to date!
😆
Just back from Ireland for a long weekend. They were all very concerned when I told them the Eurozone was about to collapse, that Ireland would be full of hundreds of thousands of Turkish migrants any day now and that they'd soon be voting in a far right government. I get the feeling they thought I was bullshitting them after a while.
Anything beyond a main road could do with a bit of work, but I was surprised - it wasn't anywhere near as "backward" or as "primitive" as jamba makes out.
You have to wonder why they were so reluctant to ratify the EU constitution the,selves, don't you?
Never a bad idea to ask twice in case there are second thoughts.
The EU does / did sod all that was any good for UK - single currency - no, Shenghen - no, democratic - no, accountable - no, a positive economic force - no, cost effective - no. lets just accept the democratic vote and get on with it
oh dear, where to begin
single currency, well not so great for greeks, but we arent in it, been great for the city of london though and much easier for holidays
schengen, again we arent in it! but not surprising considering how ignorant you are...
For any two countries in the Schengen area, total trade between them increases by approximately 0.1% per year. The same amount of increase in trade is gained again for every 1% annual increase in immigration between the countries. On average, at each border the removal of controls is equivalent to the removal of a 0.7% tariff, and the cost savings on a trade route increase with the number of internal borders crossed.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/twec.12158/full
also benefits other countries including us
http://voxeu.org/article/trade-costs-border-controls-schengen-area
Acountable, democratic- why not ask the MEP you voted for?
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/map.html
heres the doozer
I still cant see any evidence that Brexit is going to be a problem
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/after-brexit-1000-new-laws-will-be-passed-with-no-parliamentary-scrutiny-a7656981.html
[url= https://www.ft.com/content/33d592d4-54f2-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f?mhq5j=e2 ]Huge volume of Brexit laws threatens to overwhelm UK government[/url]
and it will cost us billions
http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit02.pdf
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-civil-servant-wage-bill-9758665
also you may have noticed but ever since the leave vote the country has been bitterly divided and politically unstable
anyway, moving on
Really? Where did she check? The side of a bus?Says here it's sixty-five quid:
not sure was on a .gov website, ill get the details off her tomorrow
Probably mixing up price of application for ILM with the one for citizenship. It's the second they'll need if they want to be treated as fellow humans by this ridiculous country, and carries the far higher price. The queue is huge though, and about to get ridiculous. Welcome to the beuocracy. Also note that May is only offering the former not the latter to rEU citizens already here… not sure why (he lies).
I mean why wouldn't you want to maintain your rights...
What are the extra costs about to be imposed on these workers? How much per year are they about to have their wages cut by?
I still cant see any evidence that Brexit is going to be a problem
You're kidding, right?
No, no, he really can't see it. Belief can make you blind.
Blind faith in Brexit if you will.
Just back from Ireland for a long weekend
Eire or Ulster?
Eire or Ulster?
Well, they're both Ireland and neither is a political entity. 😀
Only messing...I was taking my boy back for his first trip to where his dad grew up and to spend a few days with my mum in Limerick.
It's fair to say that most of the old friends and relatives I met wanted to talk about Brexit mostly. They are shitting the consequences, both politically at the border and economically.
Eire or Ulster?
Three counties of Ulster are in Eire / RoI
Been working in Norfolk area last week and had an i interesting chat with a few locals. The issue of seasonal work was raised as a soloution to the impending lack of EU labour to pick fruit and veg, my taxi driver pointed out that sesonal workers will come here pay little tax, not spend money locally just save and go home so the local area becomes more like a summer transit camp with eve lessmoney flowing into the local economy - he also poinred out that the locals wont pick fruit even at £10+ an hour
Suggests that fruit and veg industry will collapse post Brexit and we'll end up importing it. Probably from wherever the seasonal migrants came from in the first place.
Weirdly, those that seem to be at ease with our food production tailing off due to lack of workers are also those proposing WTO tariffs on food imports.
It hurts my head.
"They need us more than we need them".
igm - Member
Suggests that fruit and veg industry will collapse post Brexit and we'll end up importing it. Probably from wherever the seasonal migrants came from in the first place.
Seems to be that the UK is actually going to become very altruistic in it's nature post brexit, what with all the EU institutions decamping, the fruit business heading off elsewhere, etc.
Is brexit really a cunning worldwide wealth redistrubition plan?
Are the brexiteers secret international socialists? 😆
Suggests that fruit and veg industry will collapse post Brexit and we'll end up importing it.
whereas a government looking at future of the country would be investing in food production, giving grants etc,. to reduce our need to import food.
Very secret. How many of you suspect Jamba and ninfan? Though Chewkw may blow their cover any minute.
Still, after over a year of discussions and preparations, we're all clear what the politicians intend to replace CAP with now, aren't we? I don't think the manifestos could have been clearer on this matter, do you? Or perhaps the reality is that bugger all has been set out as to what UK farmers, shops, and customers should be preparing for. Forwards full speed into the darkness…
Still no plan.
It's almost like they intend to change their minds at the last minute.
Do any of the current administration have previous for changing their minds?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/29/ireland-says-dozen-london-based-banks-to-relocate-to-dublin-over-brexit?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Brexit looking good, no more nasty bankers to worry about.
Actually so far Brexit has not been a problem. For certain the Remainers have been moaning like crazy and it's clickbait heaven for the news outlets but the FX move works both ways some gains some losses. Aside from that the economy has barely skipped a beat and UK Treasury / IMF etc have admitted their Armageddon Projections where bollix.
The rest of the world manages just fine with WTO tariffs
@kimbers fair cop on the total, misread your post. Is it not a legitimate question to ask that those that expect to come here permanently do so as they are bring skills and are taking well paid jobs ? My issue is we have far too many people with low skills and / or people who are willing to undercut UK wages for given skills. If you are here and can't afford £5k VISA application fee are you really adding what we need to the UK economy and can we not get our own people trained to do that work ? When you apply for a work VISA in most countries you have to demonstrate you are adding value skills wise and paying sufficient taxes.
jambalaya - Member
Actually so far Brexit has not been a problem.
So far, brexit hasn't happened yet.
(still causing problems though, i just had a research funding application fall through)
If you are here and can't afford £5k VISA application fee are you really adding what we need to the UK economy
Of course! Do you not consider that having these peksy immigrants do menial jobs might free up our citizens to do other jobs? They all add to our economy. Even the fruit pickers. Without them the farmers cannot sell fruit.
and can we not get our own people trained to do that work ?
We could if your bloody party would put its hands in its (our) pockets and invest in skills and development! Leaving it to the markets has resulted in the situation we have.
IF we are going to be a successful country after Brexit we need a HELL of a lot more investment to replace what get from the rest of the EU.
Actually so far Brexit has not been a problem
Unless you think 20% price hikes are cool, no, no problem at all...........
Oh, and the city shelling jobs
And the rest of the world thinking we are stupid
No problem at all.
There was an interview with some American 'expert' on some shit about Trumpton on R4 the other morning who casually referred to the 'Brexit fiasco'.....
Go us!
My issue is we have far too many people with low skills and / or people who are willing to undercut UK wages for given skills.
Again this kind of attitude is storing up problems. Think it through.
In an economy that is short of labour (our is, check the figures) but you can only bring in skilled workers, there is less incentive to train the native workers - certainly if they don't excel at school why do in work training when you can bring in skilled staff but not low grade staff?
It's not instantaneous, but over a period the lower skilled natives will see skilled immigrants as an impediment to their progression fuelling a lot of tension.
What you actually need is to bring in a general mix of skill sets roughly in line with the native population in terms of skill and reward, but complimentary to it (i.e. the skilled ones you bring in should have unusual skills in the native population).
But you certainly shouldn't just bring in just skilled immigrants or you start to mix class war with xenophobia and racism. Now there's a cocktail I don't want to drink.
The rest of the world manages just fine with WTO tariffs
The RoW doesn't have a heavily integrated economy, where puling up the draw bridge will cause massive disruption to supply chains, a economy with VERY few major businesses that are actually owned by the country. Has not spent the last 12 months proving it is racist and happy to kill MPs.
jambalaya - Member - Block User - Quote
Actually so far Brexit has not been a problem.
😆
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=2Y
inflation , growth , reduced investment and the exchange rates are facts that would disagre ewiht your unbridled [ and unfounded] illusory optomismso far Brexit has not been a problem.
Weren't we the fastest going european economy pre-J23, possibly even pre-A50?
Not anymore.
I don't know why you all continue to engage with Jamba, Brexit is going fine for him and his type.
For the rest of us, the damage Brexit will do, are irrelevant to him.
its a fair point as you have to be wilfully trying, and very hard, to ignore the facts to think we have not started to have problems as a reasult of our decision
Its a view not at all supported by the facts which explains about 95% of his views
Its probably a futile waste of time to use facts against him as his political views appears immune to them
If you are here and can't afford £5k VISA application fee are you really adding what we need to the UK economy and can we not get our own people trained to do that work ?
Yes an expert in the molecular biology of melanoma, is absolutely not the kind of person we'd want contributing to this country, if only we could have more obscenely well paid finance types 🙄
JY - the terms you need all have religious connotations. Blind faith, belief above all, zealot, fanatic, sacrifice, doctrine.
Facts... meh.
Nice to see that Corbyn has gone back to being a Tory enabler.
FFS.
If you are here and can't afford £5k VISA application fee
Or don't want to pay it.
Living here used to be free, now it's not. Perhaps some people will decide the price isn't worth it. Free market economics and all that.
Talking to my Euro friends, the current price is more than the market can bear. I wonder how long before we'll be paying people to come here?
Igm has got it spot on brin8ng highly skilled people in at the right price (no expensive apprenticeships) simply raises the glass ceiling one notch and further disenfranchises the very people who think/expect they should be getting trained/given those roles. In a marginalised economy (we are heading even further down that road post brexit) no one is going to invest in training people it simply costs too much. What this will create is more pissed off people as they have to do minimum wage jobs