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We have many unemployed people in the UK and many trapped in low paying jobs by uncontrolled immigration.
we have 5% unemployment so who are you intending to do the crap jobs? We need refuse collectors and care workers as much as we need bankers if not more so. We need farm labourers and we need brain surgeons.
So where do you intend to get the workers from?
as for the numbers Switzerland is currently 25% immigrants, and don't even look at Singapore or Dubai!
Just the publication of all this pro-EU information that demonstrates that remain's campaign was lies and false issues
& the Leave campaign, on the other hand, was the very embodiment of truth & honesty??
Thanks . already got a tan . and a temping job for now , and a permanent job offer in July .
Why are the Irish leaving too?
Interesting question there, official language of Éire is Gaelige not English, so even though English is more widely used and spoken....
Why are the Irish leaving too?
Ireland have notified previously that their official language is (Irish) Gaelic.
Not that it'll make much difference, AFAIK, EU stuff hasn't been translated into Gaelic as the language would need a whole raft of new words to accommodate legislation (especially technical documents). The Irish simply said they'd be happy enough to read it all in English.
English is also an official language of Ireland (although Irish is the national language and the first official language). English won't be dropped as it is the preferred second language of everyone.
1) The Government will set the agenda in responce to business
Says it all really. Business is the only important thing to some people.
1) The Government will set the agenda in responce to business
So that is Brexit scrapped then as that seems to be the general opinion of most businesses.
1) The Government will set the agenda in responce to business amd service need
More clamouring for state control. Some people just love increasing beurocracy.
English is also an official language of Ireland
Ireland has previously notified that its official language is (Irish) Gaelic.
Of course English won't be dropped.
You obviously don't want to come over, so don#t bother, I am sure we will survive.
I don't, but some people I'd like to see are less fit to travel a thousand kms than me.
If I go along the airport taxi rank to find a taxi that replies "remain" to "leave or remain?" how many do you think I'll have to ask? And will I end up on the bus?
Interestingly the London cabbies (a watchword for liberal tolerance) I spoke to prior to the vote were split 50:50 - strangely often for equally xenophobic reasons.
I'd like to see English dropped as one of the three procedural languages once its no longer one of the official languages. It would after all be bizarre to give English a higher status than any of the languages of (edit) 25.
Edit: 50:50 - taxis will be include in my travel plans then. Anyone know about bus and train drivers?
A friend of a friend works for the EU and one of his projects was replacing English. His report was apparently recently dusted off....
It would after all be bizarre to give English a higher status than any of the languages of the 27.
Why it is preferred second language of pretty much every country (other than Russian in the Baltic states). When I worked advising European companies in the Netherlands, English was the de facto business language, dealings between companies were pretty much universally in English.
I imagine dropping it will be a thorny issue for the Irish who would have a veto, as I would be surprised if all their civil servants and politicians can speak Irish. (No doubt it is higher than the population at large but I would be surprised if it is 100%)
I imagine dropping it will be a thorny issue for the Irish who would have a veto, as I would be surprised if all their civil servants and politicians can speak Irish.
Ireland has previously notified that its official language is (Irish) Gaelic.
It is (the last time I checked) the only official language of the EU into which EU documentation has not been translated, as it simply doesn't have the vocabulary for modern technical terms and/or legalese.
Of course English won't be dropped - it is the lingua franca of the workers in the various institutions, let alone the world in general. And it would continue to be so, even if it was "dropped".
We have the USA to thank for this convenience rather than the UK.
Treaties are translated into Irish, but other matters won't be, although this will change in 2022 when it is to be fully adopted. Translators are being recruited now apparently. Whilst Ireland notified Irish, they knew at the time English would also be an official language because of the UK joining. If the UK hadn't joined, would the same decision have been made? I guess it would be the same reasons that it is the first language and if it had no doubt that would have boosted the importance of the language.
I appreciate it is a compulsory subject but how many people in government are truly proficient do you imagine?
We have the USA to thank for this (in)convenience rather than the UK.
Unfortunately attempts at a logical, supremely regular international language failed to gain support. English is a right royal pain in the arse to learn.
I appreciate it is a compulsory subject but how many people in government are truly proficient do you imagine?
Indeed, you make a good point. Everybody knows a little bit. But all business of government is conducted through English. I used to be fluent (thanks to a fluent mother and sister - both went to fully Irish speaking secondary schools so we would go for weeks speaking only Gaelic at home coming up to exam time). It once used to be compulsory to have achieved a certain level at Leaving Certificate to gain entry to university (no matter what degree) but I think even that's been relaxed. If you answer an exam paper in Gaelic, you get extra marks (10% of your achieved score) - at least you did in my day, but not sure what applies now.
Curiously, it's regained popularity slightly in the form of [i]Gaelscoils[/i] (literally: School of Irish) [pronounced Gwale-skull] where the middle classes have found a way to exclude working class children (traditionally no interest in Gaelic) - a kind of Irish version of Free Schools. 🙂
It's useless as a modern language, but it's no bad thing to have kids learning two languages from childhood anyway. There's some fantastic literature in Gaelic but then again, if we hadn't had English forced upon us, the rest of the world may never have had Joyce, Yeats, Heaney or Shaw.
I imagine, as you say, that Ireland would push to prevent any dropping of English as an official language of the EU. It would be disastrous for them.
I think the plan I referred to earlier was to create a "Euro-English" dialect that was better suited to the needs of the EU.
Beyond that I don't know anything about it. But you could imagine that as a starting point, lots of more obscure words could just be dropped, which would make life a lot easier to start with. Words like "inch" and "gallon" for example.
"Euro-English" dialect
It has existed for years in practice, my attempts at rephrasing letters when I was in the Netherlands fell on stony ground as "it wasn't English as it is used in Europe" - put me right in my place.
I think the plan I referred to earlier was to create a "Euro-English" dialect that was better suited to the needs of the EU.
Genius! Create a version of English with regular verbs, second-language-speaker-friendly vocabulary, nothing specifically British and inundate the Anglo-Saxon world with it via films, culture and media. The ultimate raising of a single digit. 😀
Edit: I tried to explain to a Swiss company with English as its official language that the "key account" was the customer and the "key account manager" was the person looking after the "key accounts". They persisted with "key account" as the job title. I worked out that if I translated word for word in to German and it made sense it was best left alone no matter how clumsy it sounded.
I think you will find the key account is where they deposit their illicit earnings.
Here's another question for you: My wife's family are essentially trapped inside the USA. They cannot leave for more than a holiday, unless they get really lucky. Is that a good thing, do you think?
This is what the Brexiteers wish to impose upon us and our kids, as the price for their "control".
We get England, Wales, and presumably (please correct me if I'm wrong) Ireland as the UK has a common travel arrangement with Ireland. And on the assumption Wangland is perceived as "the UK" so the agreement stands - not an easy case to make.
Side question - presumably the easiest route to EU residence for an English or Welsh person is to move to Ireland, is that right?
(Yes it looks like it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area#British_citizens_in_Ireland)
oldnpastit - Member
A friend of a friend works for the EU and one of his projects was replacing English. His report was apparently recently dusted off....
Good example of our waning relevance, cheers Brexshit
Ssshhhhh! Don't tell the brexies
Mr Callinan also highlighted the existence of internal divisions on the British side just weeks out from the start of formal withdrawal negotiations with the EU, saying it was clear there was “no single, settled position” on Brexit in London.
“Even within the British government, there are very different views,” he said.
Well that shouldn't come as a huge surprise to many.
The British government is slowly realising Brexit is “an act of great self-harm” and that upcoming EU-UK negotiations must seek to limit the damage, the State’s top Brexit official has said.
Or alternatively, don't do it!
Crikey, I hope Callinan wasn't wearing a woolly jumper eh jambalaya?
I notice on that Irish Times pages Deloittes are right in there touting for business on the back of Brexit. So it's an opportunity for exactly the sort of people I imagined it would be.
Siracha sauce has gone up by 25p, I blame this on the fact that the pound had dropped so much against the $.
We are so much better off having regained our sovereignty 🙄
Talking of the Irish Times...
This was an interesting article too - from a unionist pondering the conundrum in front of unionism.
So it's an opportunity for exactly the sort of people I imagined it would be.
Jambalaya and his ilk no doubt.
Same type who think the below is good business no doubt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-39592454
or do you support the union (outside the EU, possibly diminished by the departure of Scotland, and with the rise of a new form of English nationalism which will have no interest in the Celtic fringes)
Oooff!
Says it all really. Business is the only important thing to some people.
We where discussing the need for immigrant employees
No, you were.
We where discussing the need for immigrant employees
Well, you were, obviously - that's sort of the point.
The questions asked, that you "answered", were…
1) How do we define necessary?2) Issuing visas based on existing demand excludes people who might come here to actually start businesses, doesn't it? Many EU migrants have done just that, and their successful economic activity creates growth. We'd lose that contribution.
3) Would visas be tied to jobs? So if the job ends you have to go home? People cannot build a life on those terms so you will lose a lot of skills and workers as they head elsewhere to settle. This will be economically damaging don't you think?
"Employees", especially those that will get through new beurocratic hoops, are but a subset of the people that currently move countries and contribute to the place they move to. People need not be a government sanctioned asset of a large company to be welcome here. Not yet, anyway. The visa scheme you so love might be good for large multinational companies looking to bring in a few key staff for short projects, but would keep away the people this country really needs, including, importantly, young families.
As for language English is the most useful language for global communication, nothing to do with the EU. Europeans learn English for travel and work. When two Europeans meet each other they are most likely to speak English as their common language - I see this all the time with my European friends and colleagues. None of that is going to change.
So, no attempt to address the limitations of visas compared to our current system we share with the other EEA countries?
When two Europeans meet each other they are most likely to speak English as their common language - I see this all the time with my European friends and colleagues. None of that is going to change.
German does very well especially up around the netherlands and denmark.
Things will change, many things will change - how is your Mandarin coming along?
jambalaya - Member
As for language English is the most useful language for global communication, nothing to do with the EU. Europeans learn English for travel and work. When two Europeans meet each other they are most likely to speak English as their common language - I see this all the time with my European friends and colleagues. None of that is going to change.
Jamba, my child, have you heard of Latin, and later French? Of course it will change. The only question is how fast. Like countries, languages are not forever, nor is their dominance
I imagine those left behind in the UK will speak an increasingly archaic form of English, one where many words fall out of use and are forgotten: trade, business, co-operation, avocado, and so-on.
But it will gain new words - perhaps words like "to leadsom", meaning to know of nothing but tea and cake, or "the Johnson", signifying a volume or region of pointless hot air, or "cameroning", meaning taking something and royally screwing it up.
Once outside of business circles I find a combination of French, German and Spanish gets me around continental Europe better than English. Asking directions on a crowded terrace in Belgium in French got me nowhere, nor English, when they realised I spoke German they went and got the cook from the kitchen to direct me. In SW France the adults usually speak better Spanish than English, kids have about the same level in both. My son left school with both a French Bac and German Arbitur, but no English qualification. The older generation in Spain speak French and the younger generation English and Italian. Italians often have good French or German in Border areas. The Swiss speak dialects but also speak one non-English language well if they have to. In Demark German seemed to be widely spoken and everyone of my generation I've met from the old Eastern Block speaks Russian pretty well. Edit: I forgot the Dutch who seem to speak everything, and love having someone to speak French with.
If you speak to people in English they'll reply in English but that doesn't mean it's their second language. Anyhow, have a look at [url= https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_dans_l%27Union_europ%C3%A9enne ]Wiki [/url], English isn't as dominant as you might think.
Anyhow, have a look at Wiki , English isn't as dominant as you might think
Ok. 🙂
The most widely spoken language in the EU is English
😆
Your anti-English rhetoric is bordering on the silly.
love the detailed analysis there sbob...
Most spoken first language German
English the most spoken second
German and French both joint second as second languages, there is probably some stats to be done but looks like there is a good chance you could converse in French and German more easily, UK out of the EU and 2nd language choices may well change more as opportunities change.
mikewsmith - Memberlove the detailed analysis there sbob...
It's the most pertinent fact.
Unless you want to include Edukator's "three languages are better than one" revelation. 😆
It's the most pertinent fact.
lol like I said detailed analysis or picking the easiest and most obvious conclusion.
It tells me that French or german will get you a long way, if you don't speak English then it's not going to be first choice - especially as there will be a lot less English to deal with - like the Brexiters like to think why don't they speak our language...
Did I mention having taught English for years in Spain and France, sbob. And having my own language school for 10 years. People generally learned English because they were sent to us by their employers. When they were paying out of their own pockets Spanish was popular. I think Brexit will change attitudes with French, German and Spanish becoming increasingly attractive to employers.
I think the need for a passport to visit the UK will further increase the cost of school trips to the UK and be dissuasive for many. Exchnages no longer work because Brit parents consider all the French to be pedophiles. Paid host families are less and less hospitable (they often fall into the DM reading Brexit demographic and won't eat or talk with the kids). Add a load of administrative hassle and teachers will take their kids elsewhere.
Madame has organised a trip to England every year for the last 16 years. Next year there won't be one and teachers are debating whether to organise a ski trip, or a trip to Ireland or the Netherlands instead (go where one is welcome, eh). The "sections euro Anglais" in French schools have gone as of this academic year and the priority is now two foreign languages from earlier in a child's schooling. English is being diluted in favour of other languages.
Edukator - Reformed TrollDid I mention having taught English for years in Spain and France, sbob?
It's no wonder, what with English being the most widely spoken language in the EU.
It's pretty handy around the rest of the planet too.
How popular is it in China and Indonesia? How will English fare in the eu without the UK there? It will be off the table at discussions and not in regular business.
What language do the speak on Brazil?
Bet they will love being expected to speak English the the people begging for trade.
But it will gain new words - perhaps words like "to leadsom", meaning to know of nothing but tea and cake, or "the Johnson", signifying a volume or region of pointless hot air, or "cameroning", meaning taking something and royally screwing it up.
That. Plus the armies of unemployed will develop a rich variety of words to describe the different types of garbage that they spend their days sifting through in the hope of finding something worth selling on.
mikewsmith - MemberHow popular is it in China and Indonesia?
I've never been to China, but I've had employees go over. Business was conducted in English.
Haven't been to Indonesia either.
English use is quite widespread in central and southern America, from my experience.
I remember my other half finding it hilarious that all the Indians we spoke to thought I was German, though they asked me in English.
How will English fare in the eu without the UK there? It will be off the table at discussions and not in regular business.
It makes sense to use the most widely spoken language in the EU, but if people choose to use a less understood language then Spanish would be the logical choice I suppose.
It makes sense to use the most widely spoken language in the EU,
Once you remove the UK from the eu what is the most widely spoken language?
mikewsmith - MemberOnce you remove the UK from the eu what is the most widely spoken language?
Sorry, should have said Europe which we are not leaving, but is the answer still English?
Eating dinner so haven't done the maths.
You really think the widespread use of the English language within the EU and worldwide population is in any way tied to continued UK membership?
[img] 
[/img]
https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/the-10-most-spoken-languages-in-the-world
Top spoken language in the world of course, or is it just the one spoken loudly and slowly.
mikewsmith - MemberTop spoken language in the world of course, or is it just the one spoken loudly and slowly.
It's the [i]lingua franca of business, travel and international relations[/i], according to your source. 🙂
Once you remove the UK from the EU, the most widely spoken language in the EU is English.
I've worked pretty much in every country in Europe and a fair few across the globe.
Use of language is easy, for business use it's in the following order.
1 Local language
2 Language of mother company
3 English
For personal use, lose No. 2.
I learnt German because I was working a lot in Germany. But it's pretty much no use in any other countries except Germany, Austria and a bit of Switzerland. A bit like French; great for France, parts of Africa and the Caribbean and Montreal (etc).
But English works as a second language EVERYWHERE, always has and always will (well, in my life anyway).
All the Hollywood stuff is dubbed in France and Germany.
If any EU language stands to progress from traditional media sources it's German with its numerous free sat channels. You can't watch a film in English without paying but there's something worth watching most nights in the German selection.
The Net is English dominated but kids are learning that the English language streaming sites are the most likely to screw up your computer with spy ware and other nasties so prefer the less infested French web.
(This STW random logout thing is really irritating, mods)
You really think the widespread use of the English language within the EU and worldwide population is in any way tied to continued UK membership?
Americans don't speak the same language as us, as I'm sure you know. Our two languages are mostly mutually intelligible, but not always. Try explaining that the maths behind the 350 million quid number was dodgy and see how far you get.
Our quaint dialect will now just become even more marginalized and irrelevant, that's all. Like a Boris Johnson of languages.
oldnpastit - MemberAmericans don't speak the same language as us, as I'm sure you know. Our two languages are mostly mutually intelligible, but not always.
I'm sure I know that the above is complete Horlicks.
Our quaint dialect will now just become even more marginalized and irrelevant
Our quaint dialect is spoken by (in the region of) one and a half billion people worldwide.
I take it you don't get about much?
What is this obsession with putting down anything English, even in the face of glaringly obvious facts?
Never understood this unhealthy practise.
[url= https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/british-government-realises-brexit-is-a-mistake-official-says-1.3048046?m ]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/british-government-realises-brexit-is-a-mistake-official-says-1.3048046?m[/url]
I think we have a bargaining chip in the Brexit talks. Threaten to stop them using English. That should do it.
how is your Mandarin coming along?
Hello and Happy New Year. Zero point even bothering as Chineese will always speak far better English that I (and vast majority of Westerners) will ever learn Mandarin. I had two Chinesse team members and my colleage who had twice weekly Mandarin for 5 years could not make himself understood for anything but the most basic phrases. Friends who grew up in HK and spoke fluent Cantonease couod not make themselves undsrstood in Mandarin. I must have made 30 business trips to China.
For far on Project Armageddon for Brexit we've had
UK recession deeper than 2009/10
Worldwide recession
Collapse in property prices
End of peace in Europe
and now we add English being replacd by something else ?
So far all we have seen a drop in £ which IMO will be reversed
All of the above is nonsense. The EU can cinducr it's business in double-Dutch from real Double Dutchess as far as I am concerend. Thats their business. The rest of us will speak Engligh to each other and the rest of fhe world
All the Hollywood stuff is dubbed in France and Germany.
VO and VOST ? My French is poor so 90% of the films I watch are in English. We go to the cinema every week with the Orange 2:1 deal
[i]and now we add English being replaced by something else ?[/I]
Who cares what they'll do once we leave?
http://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-official-eu-language-after-brexit-senior-mep/
Yep, as thought, not our problem and a mere pinprick compared to the 5hit5torm that'll hit the UK in 2 years time.
jambalaya
All of the above is nonsense. The EU can cinducr it's business in double-Dutch from real Double Dutchess as far as I am concerend.
Nice reference- sometimes I'm reminded that you're not a bad lad, really 🙂
x
slowoldman - MemberI think we have a bargaining chip in the Brexit talks. Threaten to stop them using English. That should do it.
We'll let them use Scottish.
I'm loving everything going over sbob's head. Most amusing. More please.
Still enjoying Jambalaya's "contributions" as well. Build up those men of straw and set them alight. Burn baby burn.
End of peace in Europe
How many times have you told this lie?
Pants on fire!
DrJ - Member
'But it will gain new words - perhaps words like "to leadsom", meaning to know of nothing but tea and cake, or "the Johnson", signifying a volume or region of pointless hot air, or "cameroning", meaning taking something and royally screwing it up.'
That. Plus the armies of unemployed will develop a rich variety of words to describe the different types of garbage that they spend their days sifting through in the hope of finding something worth selling on.
And as a bonus we already have Mayhem...
Was he laurel to your hardy 😉my colleage who had twice weekly Mandarin for 5 years could not make himself understood for anything but the most basic phrases
No one could have twice weekly language lessons for five years and still only be at the basic level
I agree that Brexit wont impact on english worldwide usage in the next 20-40 years
To be fair I cant see english being dropped either .
it is easy to learn compared to others languages .
If you're English.
IMO
Well that's OK then.
Well, more wonderful news, taking back control and all that.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/15/britain-set-to-lose-eu-crown-jewels
No one could have twice weekly language lessons for five years and still only be at the basic level
You haven't tried to teach G******. Five years with me, two with Madame, I'm not sure how many language teachers before us and at least five years at school. I'm not sure who suffered most, the teachers or G.