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deviant - MemberFree market, I happen to believe in it in its entirety.
They farmer made a lot of sense.
From your summary, he made no sense at all. "I want a free market" "I can't compete with cheap imports so I want protectionism" "I want what I think is a fair price not what the market sets" "but I want a free market"
Ah the free market. Pure unadulterated, uncontrolled capitalism. What could possibly go wrong?
I'd like to think Brexit would limit cheap foreign labour and see British workers paid a decent wage again, then they'd be no need for food banks.
I'm an optimist where Brexit is concerned whereas some on here seemingly can't wait for the first hiccups. Sad, very sad.
[b]ha ha![/b]
Edit: Oh, sorry, you meant it.
From your summary, he made no sense at all. "I want a free market" "I can't compete with cheap imports so I want protectionism" "I want what I think is a fair price not what the market sets" "but I want a free market"
Maybe I didn't explain myself properly, he was pissed off by being told by the EU how much product he could make, then got dictated to by the big 4 supermarkets as to how much (or little) he could sell his meat to them for, if he'd been in a salaried job he'd have been on minimum wage.....he rated his chances of a higher income, increased productivity etc without the EUs common agricultural policy holding him back, i admred his attitude, young lad too...i hope he makes a go of it.
ha ha!Edit: Oh, sorry, you meant it.
POSTED 7 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Case in point.
I'm an optimist where Brexit is concerned
Absolutely. I too long for the days where Britannia ruled the waves, won world wars, could beat Germany at football, and we could have sing-songs around a piano down the local, and drive a British made austin allegro on empty motorways. Hell, I could even have an open coal fire with British mined coal. Those were the days!
Still insulting Leave votets I see. Go back and read @mefty's FT clip again
How will leaving the EU reduce the power of the Supermarkets? Will they not be the main sellers who will jump on buying cheaper meat from outside the EU as soon as they can? If WTO or new trade deals rule out maintaining subsidies, how will UK farmers, with far higher costs, especially after the inflationary pressure due to GBP devaluation, compete for shelf and basket space at the supermarkets that sell the majority of meat in the UK, and not go bust, if they are already on tiny margins?
deviant - Memberthen got dictated to by the big 4 supermarkets as to how much (or little) he could sell his meat to them
That's what free markets do. I don't know how to make this simpler for you. Supermarkets have huge buying power and use it to drive down cost. He's a turkey voting for christmas. Not even that, he's a turkey simultaneously voting for christmas and not-christmas- free markets and protectionism at the same time.
I'm an optimist where Brexit is concerned whereas some on here seemingly can't wait for the first hiccups. Sad, very sad.
Sad indeed. Most of the posters here are desperate for the UK to fail so they can say "told you so".
We'd need to put on import duties to protect the farmers for a period (10 years, maybe more) though from cheaper food from abroad.
WTO tariffs are at their highest on food.
We want the UK to succeed, and want the problems ahead addressing, not just ignoring with the waving of the hands of the faithful.Sad indeed. Most of the posters here are desperate for the UK to fail so they can say "told you so".
I'd like to think Brexit would limit cheap foreign labour
Hang on a mo - didn't you just type ..
Free market, I happen to believe in it in its entirety.
Confused much?
Sad indeed. Most of the posters here are desperate for the UK to fail so they can say "told you so".
And some of the posters seem desperate for the EU to fail so they can say "told you so"
I'll wet myself when it works out ok.
The trouble is there's a professional class aged somewhere between 40-50 who've become reliant on the state (in this case the EU) and can't fathom how a country can function independently, it's like a mental block for them.
This thread has now become an echo chamber for the doom mongers and positive discussion gets lost in the 'woe is me' bleating from those who didn't like the result.
So as our lead Brexiter Jamba do you also think we should just open up agriculture (as per New Zealand did) to the 'free' market?
Must say I'm inclined this way, although that's probably because I come from a region that didn't its industry protected from the market, and consequently an awful lot of it has disappeared.
Most of the posters here are desperate for the UK to fail so they can say "told you so".
And no doubt when it does you lot will blame us for just not trying hard enough, and not keeping the faith in this great nation of ours. You know what? I actually do want it to fail, because there's much bigger things at stake than the parochial interests of this country. It's about maintaining global peace, solving problems like climate change, global poverty and expanding human rights. Individual nations are pretty crap at all that.
We know what happens when nationalists take over, what starts as competition turns into beggar-thy-neighbour protectionism, social division along national and racial lines, and then war. The lessons of history are pretty clear on all of this, yet still we don't learn them.
I'd like to think [s]Brexit[/s] the UK government would limit cheap foreign labour and see British workers paid a decent wage again, then they'd be no need for [s]food banks[/s] Brexit.
FTFY.
Most of the posters here are desperate for the UK to fail so they can say "told you so".
This is the "project fear" lie in new pants (ie, we weren't trying to scare people, we were and are bloody terrified). We're not desperate for it to fail, we're desperate for it [b]not[/b] to.
We have to live here too you know, long after you've sold our economy down the river, "democratically" bullied anyone who objects into silence and made the rest of the world hate us more than they already do.
WTO tariffs are at their highest on food.
A reminder that you have no idea yet what the schedules will be for the UK regarding meat or any other food, whether we use WTO, or sign deals. Sharing out existing EU schedules is a whole new procedure…
@kimbers I have ready acres of posts / news articles complaining about EU subsidies to rich landowners. EU doesn't even oay for food production it pays based upon land area even if you do nothing with it.
We now have the chance to properly support farmers and food supply in this country.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/farmers-celebrate-spring-by-spraying-shit-everywhere-20160421108179 ]Why should we support them when they keep doing this?[/url]
We now have the chance to properly support farmers and food supply in this country.
Or, alternatively, we may have to remove/reduce support for farmers.
Go and read more about what the WTO is up to as regards agriculture.
See also just about any bilateral trade deal.
Either way, more support for meat production probably a no go.
Sad indeed. Most of the posters here are desperate for the UK to fail so they can say "told you so".
Where you Jamba are desperate to see the EU fail so you can say "told you so"
And some of the posters seem desperate for the EU to fail so they can say "told you so"
The EU is failing, see Greece, see the number of countries that take out of the pot instead of being a contributor, see the population discontent and the rise of far right parties.....yeah, it's in rude health all right.
When was the last time the auditors signed the accounts off as clean and in good order!?
Corrupt to the core.
[quote=deviant ]I'd like to think Brexit would limit cheap foreign labour and see British workers paid a decent wage again, then they'd be no need for food banks.
I'm an optimist where Brexit is concerned whereas some on here seemingly can't wait for the first hiccups. Sad, very sad.
So you want a free market for goods and services but not for labour and wage costs? So not a free market in its entirety then? But rather a semi closed protectionist market to suit your own xenophobic tenancies
The EU is failing, see Greece, see the number of countries that take out of the pot instead of being a contributor, see the population discontent and the rise of far right parties.....yeah, it's in rude health all right.
When was the last time the auditors signed the accounts off as clean and in good order!?
Corrupt to the core.
yeah for several years jamba has been predicting that the EU would collapse any minute now, still waiting....
@kimbers I have ready acres of posts / news articles complaining about EU subsidies to rich landowners. EU doesn't even oay for food production it pays based upon land area even if you do nothing with it.We now have the chance to properly support farmers and food supply in this country.
Good post, Brexit offers a chance to right these strange anomalies and start again sensibly.
jambalaya - Member
@kimbers I have ready acres of posts / news articles complaining about EU subsidies to rich landowners. EU doesn't even oay for food production it pays based upon land area even if you do nothing with it.We now have the chance to properly support farmers and food supply in this country.
😆
Id love for the CAP to be fixed, unfortunately we have andrea leadsome in charge , possibly the stupidist MP in the whole of parliament ......
Where you Jamba are desperate to see the EU fail so you can say "told you so"
Indeed.
Whose really projecting Project Fear??
Glass houses etc.
jambalaya - Member
@kimbers I have ready acres of posts / news articles complaining about EU subsidies to rich landowners. EU doesn't even oay for food production it pays based upon land area even if you do nothing with it.We now have the chance to properly support farmers and food supply in this country.
😆
Id love for the CAP to be fixed and pointless land subsidies to end, you must have been reading mobiots books, unfortunately we have andrea leadsome in charge , possibly the stupidist MP in the whole of parliament ......
yeah for several years jamba has been predicting that the EU would collapse any minute now, still waiting....
Credit Germany with propping it up, Merkel doesn't want it to fail so it won't with German billions supporting it.
Good post, Brexit offers a chance to right these strange anomalies and start again sensibly.
Yeah cos if there's anyone who's going to stick up for ordinary farmers as opposed to rich landowners it's the Tory party. Really, what planet do you people live on? 😕
Ahh… CAP… it's almost as its payments are designed to avoid WTO rules on subsidising the production of food. Still, once we no longer have to deal with CAP, we can design our own ways of keeping farmers in business, without having to worry about WTO rules… oh, hang on…
deviant » I'd like to think Brexit would limit cheap foreign labour and see British workers paid a decent wage again, then they'd be no need for food banks.
I'm an optimist where Brexit is concerned whereas some on here seemingly can't wait for the first hiccups. Sad, very sad.
There will be no rise in wages for those doing the unskilled work. All that will happen is that benefits will be squeezed further with the Tory answer being that those affected can go and do the unskilled work, for the same pittance currently paid to immigrants. Do not think for one minute the wealthy business owners that currently exploit foreigners will let brexit cost them any money.
deviant - MemberCredit Germany with propping it up, Merkel doesn't want it to fail so it won't with German billions supporting it.
good job that germanys doing so well, that must really upset all the EU haters
Right on cue, a dyed in the wool anti Tory, do you think they still wear top hats and kick beggars on their way into parliament every morning!?
deviant » I'd like to think Brexit would limit cheap foreign labour and see British workers paid a decent wage again, then they'd be no need for food banks.
deviant I see you fallen for the basic brexie error of scapegoating the EU for the failings of our own government.
Brexit secretary Davis said last week before MPs that he doesnt expect immigration to fall after brexit, its almost as if youve been lied too.......
[quote=deviant ]................. FTFY
The [s]EU[/s] [b]UK [/b]is failing, see [s]Greece[/s] the [b]NorthEast[/b], see the number of [s]countries [/s] [b]regions [/b]that take out of the pot instead of being a contributor, see the population discontent and the rise of far right parties.....yeah, it's in rude health all right.
When was the last time the auditors signed the accounts off as clean and in good order!?
Corrupt to the core.
There are 11 net contributors to the EU budget, out of 27 countries I think that's disgusting and that's why I voted out.... Nothing about racism, immigration etc just the simple fact that 16 countries are a drain.
Source:
http://english.eu.dk/en/faq/faq/net_contribution
Aren't the EU just going to give the UK a bum deal. May has said she'd rather walk away with no deal. Surely it's in the EU's favour to let the UK walk out without a deal?
What then? Leaving the EU is supposed to benefit the country.. How will leaving with no deal benefit the UK?
deviant I see you fallen for the basic brexie error of scapegoating the EU for the failings of our own government.
Brexit secretary Davis said last week before MPs that he doesnt expect immigration to fall after brexit, its almost as if youve been lied too.......
Skilled migrants? Welcome here all day long, families with no skills or intention to work can be turned back please.
Skilled migrants? Welcome here all day long, families with no skills or intention to work can be turned back please
How does that match the skills shortage?
population discontent and the rise of far right parties...
Yes good work Deviant, summed up the UK as it currently stands, UKIP and the swivel eyed loons of May and the rest of them.
What then? Leaving the EU is supposed to benefit the country.. How will leaving with no deal benefit the UK?
Because we'll take our German based military with us and our intelligence services that the EU rely on..... Scary thought for Merkel with Putin on her doorstep.
Theres more than one way to skin a cat, like in said earlier this will get ugly.....they need our contributions, our Intel and our military.
They are strong bargaining tools.
[I]There are 11 net contributors to the EU budget, out of 27 countries I think that's disgusting and that's why I voted out.... Nothing about racism, immigration etc just the simple fact that 16 countries are a drain.[/I]
Presumably you'd also want Wales, Scotland and NI out too - or infact, everywhere but the South East?
But taking back our military and Intel won't help anyone..
How will walking away with nothing help the UK?
[b]For Deviant:[/b] Reducing the supply of low skilled labour will result in more investment in automation. It has to. This may well, and should, mean fewer low skilled jobs, but it won't help those who are only up for doing low skilled jobs. I can't see them earning more, beyond trying to keep up with a rising cost of living.
Because we'll take our German based military with us and our intelligence services that the EU rely on..... Scary thought for Merkel with Putin on her doorstep.
😯 Through the looking glass now! So you're willing to risk the destabilisation of Europe and the expansion of a corrupt, kleptorcratic and authoritarian state to win some bargaining chips in a trade dispute? Are you completely unhinged?
There are 11 net contributors to the EU budget, out of 27 countries I think that's disgusting and that's why I voted out.... Nothing about racism, immigration etc just the simple fact that 16 countries are a drain.
it's even worse here. Out of 12 UK regions, there are only 2 net contributors!!!!111
Genuine question: why is it ok when Scotland or Yorkshire needs support but not Slovakia?
like in said earlier this will get ugly.....
How stupid you'd have to be to vote for things 'getting ugly' eh? 😕
There are 11 net contributors to the EU budget, out of 27 countries
If there were 27 net contributors then the EU would be sitting on an ever growing cash mountain. They have to *spend* the contributions somewhere.
What then? Leaving the EU is supposed to benefit the country.. How will leaving with no deal benefit the UK?
We will be in control. REJOICE.
Genuine question: why is it ok when Scotland or Yorkshire needs support but not Slovakia?
I've had a sudden premonition of what's going to be next on the agenda for the South East based. Tory Right Lunatic element once this whole Brexit thing is out of the way ....
I've had a sudden premonition of what's going to be next on the agenda for the South East based Tory Right Lunatic Fringe once this whole Brexit thing is out of the way ....
I really, really need to move out of Surrey.
kimbers - Memberdeviant I see you fallen for the basic brexie error of scapegoating the EU for the failings of our own government.
Two posts earlier:
kimbers - Membergood job that germanys doing so well, that must really upset all the EU haters
😆
Futile thread is futile.
elliptic - MemberIf there were 27 net contributors then the EU would be sitting on an ever growing cash mountain. They have to *spend* the contributions somewhere.
Low tax wages for EU staff and cushty pensions? 🙂
Futile thread is futile
Yet you can any keep away....
TBF i have no clue what point you are trying to make tho sbob
Sorry, thought it was obvious.
It amused me that in one post you're saying a country's failings aren't because of the EU, yet the post you wrote just before alluded to another country's success being because of the EU.
🙂
I am sure the world can then refuse to supply nuclear fuel as no legal framework, i am sure they can refuse to sell military spares, remind me where are Typhoons made? How about blocking access to all European satellites etc etc etc.
No winners.
I suppose we could just start a nuclear war with France just to be sure that there are no winners?
sbob, no real contradiction, the UK is richer than it was because of the EU, but Germany has been far better. That Germany has done better points to the Germans using the EU better than the UK*
*which when the UK has tended to use the EU as a whipping post isn't hard.
are we all done yet?
no.
a mere 100,000 London jobs in Euro clearing? more double that with the ripple effect.
families with no skills or intention to work can be turned back please
Isn't this what Germany does? Despite being in the EU?
There are 11 net contributors to the EU budget, out of 27 countries I think that's disgusting and that's why I voted out
How much do you earn? Are you a net contributor to the UK economy? I am. Should I find all those who are net recipients disgusting?
Should I find all those who are net recipients disgusting?
I think the general idea is that you should, yes. 🙂
There are 11 net contributors to the EU budget, out of 27 countries I think that's disgusting and that's why I voted out
There's much more to the EU than a spreadsheet. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Darcy, might need to ask your opinion on flooring later 🙂
That Germany has done better points to the Germans using the EU better than the UK
😆
It does absolutely nothing of the sort.
There are so many possible reasons, to come up with the above is quite frankly ridiculous.
Useful as another example of the blinkeredness of STW's Europhiles though.
I really, really need to move out of Surrey.
Surrey voted remain.
Surrey voted remain.
As did London, but they're both still in the South East!
[i]It does absolutely nothing of the sort.
There are so many possible reasons, to come up with the above is quite frankly ridiculous.[/I]
+1
And having worked across a number of sectors in Germany plus lived there you'd have to say its because they work better, not harder, just BETTER.
And having worked across a number of sectors in Germany plus lived there you'd have to say its because they work better, not harder, just BETTER.
I worked in Germany for a massive internationally known firm whose services you've probably all used, and they were definitely NOT better at working. They were an absolute joke. A British ex-pat who worked there was adamant that the concept of German efficiency was a myth, and that they had no common sense at all.
That was software though - I can imagine what works well in manufacturing would not work well in software.
good job that germanys doing so well, that must really upset all the EU haters
Artifically low exchange rate is a massive boost for the worlds largest/second largest exporter. EU/EEC generally accepted to be a Franco / German club. Always has been. I mean if it didn't work for Germany what would be the point ?
Whose really projecting Project Fear??
Simple comparison about where the risk vs opportunity lies. As we've discussed when the eurozone crises [b]really[/b] hits its going to affect the UK very badly. My point is that the less entangled we are in the EU the better, the less dependent we are on European trade the better.
So while May is in Saudi, desperately trying to sell them more bombs to blow up Yemeni civilians
that bastion of decency and integrity, Lian Fox is meeting international pariah Rodrigo Duterte, whom he claims we have 'shared values' with - thats what grovelling for a trade deal looks like
[img] 
[/img]
truly a proud day for the brexies
Simple comparison about where the risk vs opportunity lies. As we've discussed when the eurozone crises really hits its going to affect the UK very badly. My point is that the less entangled we are in the EU the better, the less dependent we are on European trade the better.
So....
You're using a hypothetical situation which has poor consequences for the UK.....as an example of how you're not employing "Project Fear" tactics....
Hmmm..
I think you've come up a bit short there old son.
Facts, Jamba, we like facts round here....not wishful thinking combined with smoke & mirrors!
French Presidential debate tonight. Plenty of euroscpetism on show and not just from Le Pen.
Remind me where those "plenty of eurosceptism" candidates are in the polls. Populist nationalistic isolationism that is taken to pieces each time Macron replies. Macron is the one with all the answers, now we'll go along and vote, and see if that shows up in the result.
@kimbers - looks like there is a bright future full of opportunities waiting for us post-Brexit!!