Nobody that I have met that voted leave has been extreme in views.
Would you like my mum's phone number? A black lady has moved in near her and all she bangs on about is how she will be smuggling refugees in.
Everything she reads in the Mail is fact and by the time it's been around her head a few times it's a miracle we haven't all been slaughtered in our beds.
Are we willing to sacrifice the peace and prosperity that the Eu has brought us to appease the thoughts of a delusional , bigoted old lady?
It's time for a revolution. We need to rise up, take to the streets and overthrow the media barons.
[quote=cchris2lou ]Ms Truss 3 lines statement is not a great defence for the judges.
I presume her position is a entirely a political appointment and the judges have no say at all - because otherwise she'd surely be out on her ear. Completely and utterly useless. Actually that's not fair on the useless.
I thought we'd got as low as we could go already, the events since this judgement make me despair. The articles in the newspapers are bordering on the criminal (I'm actually wondering if there is some incitement law they're breaking - the best thing for those journos would be a night in the cells to reflect on what complete shits they are). The response of our elected representatives even worse because they should know better. Frankly I'm disgusted with the lot of them.
If there were a second referendum then the result would still reflect the will of the people, so what's the problem? Why not have three or five?
There in a nutshell is the SNP. You only need one to go your way eventually to get your result. Leave got the job done with 1. Remain can morph into re-join and have as many as it takes. In the meantime Brexit means Brexit 🙂
It's time for a revolution. We need to rise up, take to the streets and overthrow the media barons.
I am a supporter of this, well worth the time and a few £££'s IMHO http://hackinginquiry.org
Finally FWIW critism of judges for interpreting the law is ridiculous. There will be an appeal and if neccessary a vote in Parliament, job done, Article 50 in March.
It's time for a revolution. We need to rise up, take to the streets and overthrow the media barons.
You could just stop buying papers.
Couldn't have been more lacklustre if she tried.
It's almost as though the government are quite happy that miller and the judges have been threatened and abused online, for daring to go against the will of the Brexiters
Come on, I'm sure all MPs appreciate the sovereignty of Parliament and the benefit of an independent judiciary:
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Guess not. Bellends.
So.. you want the will of the people represented, but only at one specific instant in time.
What's special about that particular time?
You could just stop buying papers.
I haven't bought one for years - since they became comics. Sadly many people do buy them and base their opinions on the lies therein.
I doubt anybody here buys the DM (apart from when they have a lego offer on, and buying one costs them money). Or do you 5th? The issue isn't whether anybody here buys the papers, it's that the morons on the street buy them.
molgrips - MemberSo.. you want the will of the people represented, but only at one specific instant in time.
What's special about that particular time?
Same reason we had one election in 1802, and the Tories have been in charge ever since. You can't just have more elections til you get a different result, the people have voted!
Slow hardly anyone pays attention to the newspapers, you are giving the power, just ignore them and the clickbait. TV and internet news is far more influential
to be faur , I can not see how a second referendum would sort this mess . it would be never ending if results are different .
the only sensible option is going to be a very soft exit , Norway style .
no one will be happy at first , but the economy should not suffer , and everyone wallet will stay as it is and in a few years time it will be all forgotten .
The House of Commons starts its proceedings with a prayer. The chaplain looks at the assembled members with their varied intelligence and then prays for the country.
From one very famous judge.
[quote=jambalaya ]Finally FWIW critism of judges for interpreting the law is ridiculous.
Ok, I'll admit it. Jamba is far saner than many of our MPs.
[quote=cchris2lou ]the only sensible option is going to be a very soft exit , Norway style .
I have to admit, this is certainly an option I could live with. Actually I should admit that it's exactly what I wanted a while ago - though now I acknowledge it would be worse than what we have now, it would at least satisfy the majority of those who voted in the referendum. There are even some advantages to it.
There's also the bonus that it actually seems a realistic option at the moment - whilst I don't think I honestly believe that calling the whole thing off really is any more.
I liked this comment on the Indy today:
"One thing which has become very obvious from the discussion is that a great many people in the "leave" camp expected things to be simple. They would win one vote (just one and only one) and we would simply leave the EU.
Never mind it was an advisory and consultative vote won by the narrowest of margins; that most of what was said to win it has been shown to be lies; that the number of bregretters means the "will of the people" now means something different from what it meant back on the 23rd of June. Never mind that Farage himself said that a narrow vote would be grounds to try to get it overturned (so don't be surprised if he is taken at his word). Never mind that the issues are not at all simple. Never mind that there is a huge range of possible terms we could get and which terms we do get will shape our lives for decades. Never mind that the whole relationship between Parliament, the government the judiciary and the fourth estate is in question. Never mind that we don't even know what terms we are going to ask for and far less what Europe will give us. No, never mind any of that inconveniently complex reality. Let's just cling to that one simple certainty, the 52% in favour on one day in June, and cling to it as frantically as a child who has been given a shiny new toy and is terrified it will be taken away.
Along the way our government is going to have to negotiate its disentanglement from a fantastically complex set of treaties and negotiate equally complex treaties to replace them. It will all have to go back to parliament not once but many times to be checked over, because the government's negotiating team simply cannot be allowed to stitch us all up in secret. During the months and years this is going on, there will be major shifts in political alignments, large changes in public opinion, great changes in forecasts of our economic prospects. Any of these things could give more impetus to our departure, or impede it.
It is going to be the biggest and most important political project for a generation. It is not going to be simple at all. It is simply not something that can be achieved by an act of will, a sort of political magic wand.
If we get the right terms, we could do very well outside the EU, maybe even better than inside. If we get the wrong terms, it could be catastrophic. If we can't get acceptable terms at all, then to safeguard the national interest parliament might even have to throw the whole machine into reverse and say we are not leaving after all; unlikely but still possible. Nothing is ever final. At any stage of this long drawn out process, everything will always be all to play for. That is the nature of politics, and its fascination. If you want to stamp your feet and cry that it ought to be simpler; well yes, it would be nicer if it were simpler, but in the real world it just isn't."
Which I think pretty much sums things up for me.
Come on, that's not what the Brexiters want. They think out is out. Completely. What's "soft Brexit" anyway? We continue to pay up for access to the European market but now have no voice in it. Stupid!
What exactly is the benefit of a Norway type relationship compared to our current position?
no benefits at all , costs the same but not allowed to have a say on decisions .
Nothing Neb bar it appeases the loons. anyway I don't think that is on the cards. To join the EEA (I think its called that) needs the approval of its members and Norway have said they will not allow it and anyway Farage and his loony army will cry foul as will the mail etc
Slow hardly anyone pays attention to the newspapers, you are giving the power, just ignore them and the clickbait. TV and internet news is far more influential
Unfortunately all those papers have a large online presence too. The Daily Mail in particular is a very successful "news" website. Most popular UK news site after the BBC I believe!
Jamba - the papers are very important for one thing. the BBC takes its neutrality from an average of the papers so ends up well to the right of centre. If the express/ mail etc run with a story if if its nonsense the BBC have to follow it hence all the airtime Farage gets.
Morning news conferences at the BBC they look at the mail. telegraph and express to decide what is news that day
Next question - will a soft brexit placate the knob heads that want to "make Britain great again" and are so keen to "take back control"?
I'm thinking it won't. So, civil unrest? Riots? Lovely.
Finally FWIW critism of judges for interpreting the law is ridiculous.
I'll hold you to that comment..
[quote=Neb ]What exactly is the benefit of a Norway type relationship compared to our current position?
I think it would allow us to make trade arrangements with other countries which the rules of the EU don't allow us to do.
I don't think there is any requirement for us to join the EEA in order to get such an arrangement - we'd simply have to negotiate it with the EU. Realpolitik suggests there's also a realistic chance of the EU agreeing to such an arrangement as it would be beneficial to them without seeming so advantageous to us that it would make it tempting for other countries to leave. At least I'm sure it could be framed in such a way as to ensure that.
Don't get the idea I would rather this than staying in the EU, but it does appear to be one way to comply with the vote without slitting our own throat. Who cares what Nigel thinks?
Morning news conferences at the BBC they look at the mail. telegraph and express to decide what is news that day
Of course, you have proof of this.
[quote=Neb ]Next question - will a soft brexit placate the knob heads that want to "make Britain great again" and are so keen to "take back control"?
Of course not. But then they're knob heads, and I'd hate to think that our country (yes, our country) could be held to ransom by the threat of them creating trouble because mummy didn't let them have their own way.
Norway option is far worse. Remember how it came about, the people voted NOT to join and the government didn't like it so they signed up for pretty much everything anyway inc budget contribution
The short sharp shock of Hard Brexit is best imho. As I have said many times the EU we will be negotiating with come Nov 2017 will look very different than the one we see today. Somehow I doubt politicans have the necessary courage so we'll get some sort of fudge or interim / tapered exit agreement.
BBC News: I have an old (now distant) friend who is a newsreader, they most certainly do not take a lead from the printed press (never did and can't see them doing it now that papers are even less relevant).
TJ the BBC is comfortably left of centre. The left don't like to admit that as it means they can't "blame the media" for their troubles
Edit
Or do you 5th?
😆 I think the last paper I bought was the Beano. Come on, why would anyone buy a paper? Or a magazine, or a book. You'll be telling me people go to actual shops to go shopping next.
Of course, you have proof of this.
Ah but he didn't say they looked at only those papers!
[quote=jambalaya ]Norway option is far worse.
Yay - following normal policy on this thread, it's now clear to me that we'll be fine with the Norway option.
Morning news conferences at the BBC they look at the mail. telegraph and express to decide what is news that day
I'm friends with a current BBC journo (in fact I was best man at her wedding), is it worth me fact checking this or can we write it off as hyperbole?
Anyone else get the feeling that Brexit is going to become the new normal.
In 10 years time or so we'll still be in the EU but the 4th or 5th item on the news will be about the latest vote in parliament about a particular part of the process towards triggering Article 50.
At every election Labour and the Tories will try to outdo each other on how fantastic a deal they're going to get as soon as they trigger article 50. The Lib-Dems will be promising to abandon Article 50 if they get in power (and then not abandon it if they do get in power) and the SNP will be poised to call a referendum the minute that Article 50 is triggered.
The UK will have evolved from that annoying country that wants special treatment all the time to that annoying country that says it's leaving but never does.
[quote=BruceWee ]The UK will have evolved from that annoying country that wants special treatment all the time to that annoying country that says it's leaving but never does.
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FWIW critism of judges for interpreting the law is ridiculous.
Its not just criticism
the Judges have been declared [b]Enemies of the People[/b] by the most poplar 'news' website in the country
with some extra homphobia thrown in
there are 1000s of comments on social media the echo these sentiments and some incredibly brazen threats of violence against Gina Miller in particular, all re-enforced by the political bottomfeeders tweeting above (go and look on facebook, people arent hiding their threats)
I got a lovely threat (with casual homophobia thrownin) via facebook from an EDL member for commenting on the advisory nature of the referendum.
Politicians, media and the public attacking the judiciary for simply explaining the law is a sign of a very sick political climate and May and Truss failing to condem this because they want an easy ride through parliament is shameful.
hardly anyone pays attention to the newspapers, y
The DM (and the sun) is still incredibly influential, it has a history of supporting the Nazis and fascists it cant put behind it and just as it was with scapegoating the jews, post truth politics is now trying to scapegoat the EU, immigrants or anyone who it disagrees with.
they wrote about jews exactly as they write about immigrants now...
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with this
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and now the gay pro european judges are [b]Enemies of the People[/b]
well [b]Feind Unseres Folkes[/b] is exactly what the Nazis called the jews
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Brexit and its major proponents are poisoning this country
The short sharp shock of Hard Brexit is best imho
best for who - not best for those who loose their livelihoods, homes etc. Only best for you possibly.
Can we just put a hold on this until I find the barsteward who scratched my car?
It will have been an immigrant, captain. Bound to be - it's all their fault.
A Tory MP has compared the DM article to a nazi paper . Says it all really .
Neb - Member
What exactly is the benefit of a Norway type relationship compared to our current position?
It's Brexit without Brexit.
We keep free market and keep free movement which keeps Remainers happy so it's a reluctant win.
But it's a form of Brexit so it complies with the referendum so for the Brexiters its a reluctant win.
That's the goal for the Tories and Labour. Brexit doesn't follow normal party lines - both camps both have members as staunch voters and yeah Brexit won the vote but it was famously close.
The fact it's a shit solution doesn't come into it.
Hell, what's the downside? No voice in Europe? FFS most of us can't be arsed to vote in the Euro elections and we put up with UKIP running the show for years, what's the deference?
And the government of the day can spend the next couple of decades blaming the EU for bad news, even more so because we're powerless to do anything about it and whose fault is that? The electorate.
JC has fired the first shot, access to free market or labour will vote against (not that I think his position is strong enough to follow that up) between that, 2 Tory resignations, an SNP that will never vote for A50, nah unless The Supreme Court over-turn the high court it's all over for 'Hard Brexit' - not that even May would push that suicide mission through.
**** it, give the leavers some spitfires and blue passports and they'll crawl back under their rock - 10 years and 50% are dead or too old and mental to vote and we can put this shit to bed.
Can we just put a hold on this until I find the barsteward who scratched my car?
He's probably pissed off back to Romania clinging to the underside of a lorry. Well I imagine that's what the DM story would have us believe.
oh look the kippers arent scared of revealing their antisemitism now either
https://antisemitism.uk/ukip-facebook-group-posts-claim-that-jews-are-conspiring-against-brexit/
best for who - not best for those who loose their livelihoods, homes etc. Only best for you possibly.
How many times do I have to say it, no personal gain from Brexit. I'm too old to see the real benefits which will flow to my kids as the UK avoids EU driven stagnation and looks outwards to the world.
On the press thing - its common knowledge and confirmed to me by a bbc journalist - yes they look at other papers as well but if the mail, express and telegraph all lead with the same story then the BBC will as well.
