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Working time directive even if the UK watered it downControls on pollution
Controls on water quality
Freedom of movement
Unbiased non political court of last resort
Human rights
Quite. And I'm sure someone will be along shortly to declare that there is absolutely no threat to any of those because they will all be adopted as UK law, but wouldn't you know, surprise surprise...
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Britain must sweep aside thousands of needless EU regulations after Brexit to free the country from the shackles of Brussels, a coalition of senior MPs and business leaders have demanded.
...
Today The Daily Telegraph calls on the Conservative Party to promise a bonfire of EU red tape in its 2020 manifesto..
..
The proposal has the backing of the former Conservative leader Iain Duncan Smith, who believes the Tories should promise at the next election to "whittle away" unnecessary rules, reducing the "burden" on businesses and citizens.He said: "Let us leave and then the Conservative Party at the next election needs to say 'we can reduce the cost on business and on individuals by reducing regulations which will improve our competitiveness, our productivity and therefore ultimately our economy'."
..
In the US, President Donald Trump has adopted a similar approach by appointing his senior White House adviser Jared Kushner to lead a new Office of American Innovation.
Well if both Iain Duncan Smith AND Donald J Trump think its a great idea.... count me in!
I'm pretty certain both those wise, compassionate individuals (and not at all mad sociopathic bastards) have the best interests of people like me at heart
Quick reminder … all May's promises to protect workers rights, continue environmental protections, and provide some limited replacement of EU funding in some areas, are time limited to 2020. That means about 13 months after we leave. An easy promise. After that, anything goes.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/worried-britons-notice-opposite-of-everything-may-says-is-true-20170328124971 ]Then theres the small matter of...[/url]
Hmmm… the last line about her clothes isn't much better than that Mail front page really. Poor show.
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire ]Yes, its exactly the same thing, isn't it?[/url]
Jambyfacts are endless arent they top three were tory Why do you keep making up "facts"? Dont you ever gt tired and just think "perhaps I ought to google this thing first as my track record on getting things correct is rather low
Are you new around here?
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[b]Cut the EU red tape choking Britain after Brexit to set the country free from the shackles of Brussels[/b]
And what are the most invidious examples of red tape that The Telegraph has plucked from the (presumably) thousands of possibilities?
"[b]Five EU directives we'll be glad to see the back of
EU working time directive[/b]
- because doctors don't work long enough hours
[b]Bendy bananas[/b]
- because Boris Johnson
[b]Green energy[/b]
- clearly a BAD THING
[b]Great crested newt[/b]
- George Osborne, the former Chancellor, said in 2011 the directive placed “ridiculous costs on British businesses”. Burn the newts for fuel.
[b]Incandescent lightbulbs[/b]
- 95 per cent of the energy that goes into them gets turned into heat rather than light. Who cares though, the LED and fluorescents give off a "cold unnatural light". Apparently
[b]Best vacuum cleaners[/b]
- Make Britain great again, take back control etc
(I've paraphrased the Telegraph's explanations for the sake of brevity)
He said:
no one really has much to say about the EU which is positive
After a year's campaigning and many thousands of posts here.
He's not saying he hears but disagrees
He's not saying there are a range of views and perhaps remain have some points but on balance he's for leave.
He's saying what's happening in front of his eyes is simply not happening. It's just not there.
You can't debate with that, I'd move on, better ways to spend one's time. Let it go.
well thats us fuct then
the youth, who overwhelmingly voted to remain,
or stayed at home because they couldn't be bothered to go out and vote...
This is pretty much a proxy for saying that they will accept whatever the result was.
Don't worry Kimbers. It'll all be fine. David Davis said so on QT last night. And who would doubt a man blessed with such obvious wisdom, and insightful intellect?
We're not to worry our pretty little heads over triviality like that. Leave it to him, Liam, and Boris, and they'll pop back in a couple of years and let us know how its all gone.
Like I said... I'm sure it'll all be fine....
Bendy bananas- because Boris Johnson
that was no joke for Tenerife, whose bananas are all bendy and therefore this stuffed up their trade into the EU.
But for me the fact that TTIP was drawn up in secrecy, and then more secrecy when Greenpeace leaked that it's contents where very biased towards coorporates, is enough to indicate that the current EU is not fit for purpose and deserves to fail, to maybe be replaced by an EU 2.0 in the future.
Of cource the EU could have recognised that it had to reform but it's such a broken organisation that that was never going to happen.
Hence the pain everyone is about to feel.
Having just read the Telegraph's list of regulations they want to get rid of I'm now so cross I'm going to have to go for a walk, making my lunchtime longer and meaning I will have to go home later.
Gaaaaaaahhhhh
It must be satire. Surely. Surely? Nobody can really think those things, can they?
Its worse than that. The lunatics who've 'Taken Back Control' of the asylum, believe all that nonsense like evangelists. And Worse. Just look at the list of unhinged nut-jobs referenced in that article. 😯
This is their 'Second Coming'. They've waited for this moment all their lives
Basically we're all well and truly ****ed!!
Turner guy - the whole bendy bananas thing is a complete myth invented by Johnson
The youth probably voted more than given credit for. Though it's hard to be sure.
A factor with non-voters could be the polls pointing to a remain win. I'll agree with you they should have voted, but to say non-voters de facto don't care is invalid.
It's worth remembering how polls most probably influenced the 2015 GE too.
My Telgraph reading NHS employed, Union representitive (apparently) - old friend - voted Brexit thinking it would improve workers tights.
I am going to ****ing laugh in her face so hard this evening.
But for me the fact that TTIP was drawn up in secrecy, and then more secrecy when Greenpeace leaked that it's contents where very biased towards coorporates, is enough to indicate that the current EU is not fit for purpose and deserves to fail
And what stopped us getting TTIP? Other EU member states....
Molgrips, can we just have a Chinese style purge of all the wilfully ignorant or outright illiterate morons?
that was no joke for Tenerife, whose bananas are all bendy and therefore this stuffed up their trade into the EU
Is that the Spanish island of Tenerife whose trade into the EU was "stuffed up"?
Regardless, the EU did not ban any bananas. Boris Johnson got a mention because he made his name as a "journalist" filing largely made-up stories from Brussels.
The trade deal that May will grovellingly have to negotiate with a Trump America, when the true catastrophic post-Brexit economic damage becomes clear, will make TTIP look like a socialist manifesto. And there will be no other member states to tell them to do one, or put the brakes on in any way. It'll be take it or leave it
Hurray for 'Taking Back Control!'
Turner guy - the whole bendy bananas thing is a complete myth invented by Johnson
not according to the tour guide on my last trip to Tenerife
But for me the fact that TTIP was drawn up in secrecy, and then more secrecy when Greenpeace leaked that it's contents where very biased towards coorporates, is enough to indicate that the current EU is not fit for purpose and deserves to fail
The opposite is true for me: the fact that the EU so successfully blocked TTIP, when our own government was pushing hard to sign up to it, demonstrated to me how useful it can be to have a supra-national power involved in these things.
Once we've "Taken Back Control" I have no doubt that May will be so desperate to make deals that she'll gladly sign whatever new version of TTIP-UK-Lite the Americans decide to toss us.
Turner guy - the whole bendy bananas thing is a complete myth invented by Johnsonnot according to the tour guide on my last trip to Tenerife
Well who could argue with such an authoritative source.
Any other 'facts' you're willing to pass on? Maybe from a cab driver? Or something you overheard in the pub?
And what stopped us getting TTIP? Other EU member states....
that wasn't the point - the point was that the EU could even contemplate coming up with the stuff that was in TTIP, and then tried to hide it behind tons of security so everyone else was unaware.
The bias it gave to companies, like compensating them for loss of profits, and the whole free-movement of people really just ensuring that companies have a ready supply of cheap labour, are two reasons that I am not fussed about us leaving, or if the EU crashes and burns in the future.
Well who could argue with such an authoritative source.
well they had lived there for a long time and seen the effects.
You're irony filter appears to be broken. You really should get it seen too.
The opposite is true for me: the fact that the EU so successfully blocked TTIP
but they shouldn't have even come up with it in the first place, and then it was only certain member states that blocked it.
not according to the tour guide on my last trip to Tenerife
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94
but they shouldn't have even come up with it in the first place,
Above all else the EU is a trade block. Surely considering and negotiating proposed Trade Agreements is pretty much a fundamental part of that?
and then it was only certain member states that blocked it.
Not including us. We were [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/extracts-from-the-chancellors-speech-on-europe ]gagging for it[/url].
that wasn't the point - the point was that the EU could even contemplate coming up with the stuff that was in TTIP, and then tried to hide it behind tons of security so everyone else was unaware.
It's a good point, but you can't escape the fact that it was also the EU as a concept that stopped it, because of its democratic processes (irony of ironies). The Commission could come up with whatever they want, but the states have to ratify it.
but they shouldn't have even come up with it in the first place, and then it was only certain member states that blocked it.
Yeah, not ours. We are fairly likely to end up with TTIP anyway, is my guess. Which would be pretty ironic from your point of view. You seem to be walking away from the EU hoping to find something better - I have a feeling you're going to be pretty disappointed.
And this is the huge issue with the EU referendum - we were moving away from something known to something unknown - and the unknown could end up being far worse.
nd then it was only certain member states that blocked it.
You mean the EU is a functioning democracy? **** me, everyones been telling me it cant be held to account.
The bias it gave to companies, like compensating them for loss of profits, and the whole free-movement of people really just ensuring that companies have a ready supply of cheap labour, are two reasons that I am not fussed about us leaving, or if the EU crashes and burns in the future.
And what do you think is going to happen once the evangelical, free-market worshipping right wing of the Tory party, unchecked by any form of democratic accountability, have been given a clean sheet of paper to re-write all the rules, and are gleefully celebrating being 'freed from the shackles of the EU'?
if you're expecting anyone to benefit from that, other than the corporate boardrooms, I think you best prepare yourself for a bit of a disappointment. The reality is that we're about to get ****ing shafted!
and the unknown could end up being far worse
or much better.
TurnerGuy - Memberthat wasn't the point - the point was that the EU could even contemplate coming up with the stuff that was in TTIP, and then tried to hide it behind tons of security so everyone else was unaware.
The bias it gave to companies, like compensating them for loss of profits, and the whole free-movement of people really just ensuring that companies have a ready supply of cheap labour, are two reasons that I am not fussed about us leaving, or if the EU crashes and burns in the future.
Come on, our government couldn't stop touching themselves while reading TTIP, it was a tory wet dream. And guess what- now that same party is going to be in charge of all the new trade deals, with no EU to reign them in.
and the whole free-movement of people really just ensuring that companies have a ready supply of cheap labour
I think it has flaws but the reason for it as much about enabling people to move within the community to better their lives, and ultimately iron out the peaks and troughs of inequality.
I've used it too - spending several years in France. Bloody loved it and am livid that opportunity is being withdrawn from our kids. No more ski seasons for you lot, go and pick some bloody cabbages, it'll do you good.
Oh and I have French and Polish friends here in the UK, they all contribute positively, and I'd wager more than the average Brexiteer too.
if you're expecting anyone to benefit from that, other than the corporate boardrooms, I think you best prepare yourself for a bit of a disappointment
It's going to be payday for those you already have, at the expense of the have nots. Again.
mefty - Member
and the unknown could end up being far worseor much better.
But probably worse.
And what do you think is going to happen once the evangelical, free-market worshipping right wing of the Tory party, unchecked by any form of democratic accountability, have been given a clean sheet of paper to re-write all the rules, and are gleefully celebrating being 'freed from the shackles of the EU'?
except that we can vote out the government, whereas we have virtually no direct influence over the EU. Even Corbyn recognises it as an undemocratic organisation and wanted out.
You know Jeremy Corbyn is politically clueless, right? And that his political development entered a state of arrested development when he was in 6th form?
And I think the penny is finally dropping even with that half-wit that whats coming over the horizon, with these right wing, free-market fundamentalists at the helm, is going to make the EU look like a socialist utopia
http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/media/euromyths/bendybananas.html
Like with most products the EU has rules about labelling so we know what we are getting consistently. Bendy bananas were never banned. Complete myth
except that we can vote out the government
Yes, but they can wreck things pretty badly in between times. TTIP wouldn't be binned as soon as a Labour government came in, would it?
we have virtually no direct influence over the EU
We don't? I have an MEP just as I have an MP, dunno about you. I can lobby my MEP *and* I can lobby my MP who can then vote on EU matters. Two layers of democratic representation.
A Brussels ban on bendy bananas is one of the EU’s most persistent myths.Bananas have always been classified by quality and size for international trade. Because the standards, set by individual governments and the industry, were confusing, the European Commission was asked to draw up new rules.
Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.
Nothing is banned under the regulation, which sets grading rules requested by industry to make sure importers – including UK wholesalers and supermarkets – know exactly what they will be getting when they order a box of bananas.
Grauniad
If one objects to the "bananas rule*" so much wouldn't it have been easier to eat something else rather than vote for long term economic hardship?
Or was it the knock on effects on banana shots in football or banana boat rides on the costa del vacances that was the worry?
*you know, the one that is a figment of Boris's imagination
I can lobby my MEP
You actually have more than 1, but can any of them introduce new laws?
You actually have more than 1, but can any of them introduce new laws?
Can MPs introduce new laws?
I'd argue the European Parliament being based on PR is more democratic than the FPTP UK system.
Oh you would, would you?
[b]ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!!!!!![/b]
busted.
You know Jeremy Corbyn is politically clueless, right?
I'd agree apart from on this matter he seems to have given it some rational thought...
Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.
that's the point - their bananas suddenly became grade 2 product and they had to rename them to something else to get grade 1 back again.
I'd agree apart from on this matter he seems to have given it some rational thought...
If you regard 'my enemies enemy is my friend' as rational thought, I suppose? Sadly he's an idiot. Its like the Americans supporting the Taliban, and supplying them with arms, while they were fighting the Russians. What did they think was going to happen next?
Clearly they hadn't thought that far. Neither has Jezza. His thinking has never been advanced enough to question what might actually replace the EU he hated so much. Never countenanced the idea that it might be far, far worse. Like I said... a bit thick.
He's actually spent so many years, head buried in the lefty sand, railing against the EU as an evil capitalist, corporatist conspiracy (isn't everything Jeremy? Isn't everything?), that he singularly failed to spot an actual real live one, going on right before his very eyes. So close it could have hoofed him in the slats!
By the sound of Kier Starmers latest statement, even someone as terminally dense, and imprisoned by a totally outdated ideology as Comrade Corbyn may have actually registered what's really going on. And it ain't a workers revolution, that's for sure Comrade! Quite the reverse.
Sadly this Epiphany comes about 20 years too late. 2 years ago would have been helpful. But never underestimate just how blinkered and stupid your average hardline lefty is. If you're quoting them, outside a sixth form common room, you've basically lost the argument already
Can MPs introduce new laws?
Yes
"unchecked by any form of democratic accountability,"
?
TurnerGuy - Member
that wasn't the point - the point was that the EU could even contemplate coming up with the stuff that was in TTIP, and then tried to hide it behind tons of security so everyone else was unaware
Ha! Our government were some of biggest fanboys of TTIP within the EU, it was only the French dragging their heals that got it canned!
You can bet a funny shaped pound coin that we will be signing up to the Trump version very soon
Aye but when the government sells our unborn babies to Walmart by the sack, at least it'll be our government that does it, because we've taken back control
that's the point - their bananas suddenly became grade 2 product and they had to rename them to something else to get grade 1 back again.
So never actually "banned" then at all?
> Can MPs introduce new laws?
Yes
Well they can't can they? The can certainly [i]lobby[/i] for new laws and request debates about them, but ultimately parliament has to have a say before the law can be introduced.
Likewise an MEP can [i]lobby[/i] the commission for new laws and have debates about them.
No an MP can introduce a Bill, a MEP can't, the original abortion act came into being as a result of a Private Member's Bill - David Steele, the former Liberal Leader being the member who introduced it. It is a very important difference, the European Parliament has a fraction of the power that the UK Houses of Parliament have.
So never actually "banned" then at all?
funny how I never said that they were banned - that was the follow on comments...
Sadly he's an idiot.
agreed - so I'll give you Rees Mogg :
No an MP can introduce a Bill, a MEP can't, the original abortion act came into being as a result of a Private Member's Bill
A Private Member's Bill is just a proposal. It still has to go through all [url= http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/ ]same set stages[/url] as a Public Bill.
Sadly he's an idiot.
agreed - so I'll give you Rees Mogg :
and rees-mogg isnt? 😆
They're opposing cheeks of the same arse
But if the Member can gain support in both Houses, his Bill can become law, without reference to the executive, likewise amendments made can be introduced which if they find favour will pass into law, whether the Executive like it or not. The European Parliament can only reject laws, they can't promulgate them nor can they amend them without the Executive agreeing. This is a fundamental duifference between the powers of the two Parliaments. (The European Parliament ability to reject is relatively recent)
They're opposing cheeks of the same arse
trouble is he makes a lot of good points there - unless you can debunk them ?
it is a shame that he wasn't the leading face of the leave campaign, at least he would have presented reasonable argument and if leave had won based on his argument then it would have been a more rational decision.
You can also lay some of the blame for the vote on Juncker himself, I have met a few youngsters that based their out vote on statements from that self-serving, chain-smoking, near-alcoholic idiot (can't think of any more insults to put 🙁 )
that's the point - their bananas suddenly became grade 2 product and they had to rename them to something else to get grade 1 back again.
Bendynanas?
Bendynanas?
Plátanos
trouble is he makes a lot of good points there - unless you can debunk them ?
its just jingosistic nonsense tho
(assuming you dont mean the lies about fishing quotas ....)
commission, pure BS- each elected government, including ours, put forward our commissioners
ECJ- again judges appointed by member governments- the same way we do here , and UK lawyers have played a huge part in creating and amending EU laws
hes just appealing to fear of foreigners, as they are somehow less trustworthy than our own politicians or civil servants, pure xenophobia if you will
The European Parliament can only reject laws, they can't promulgate them nor can they amend them without the Executive agreeing.
The European Parliament can approve, reject or propose amendments.
It also has a right of legislative initiative that allows the parliament to ask the Commission to submit a proposal.
I agree they are different systems, obviously, but I don't think it is as undemocratic as the detractors make out.
The European Parliament can only reject laws, they can't promulgate them nor can they amend them without the Executive agreeing. This is a fundamental duifference between the powers of the two Parliaments
I don't think that's reason to bin the whole thing though.
Personally I like the idea that rules and regs could be discussed in an international forum. People from different countries bring different thoughts and ideas to the table. I don't mind foreigners.
commission, pure BS- each elected government, including ours, put forward our commissioners
Even Cameron was uneasy about the direction the EU was going :
I don't mind foreigners.
I welcome them.
Like those lovely people at Deutsche Bank.
Surprised no-one has commented on that little piece of news...
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This one sbob?
Deutsche Bank has predicted the pound will fall to as low as $1.06 against the dollar due to Brexit.
But despite its gloomy outlook, Germany's biggest lender is still pushing ahead with plans to build a new headquarters in London.
..
In its 45-page report on the possible consequences of Brexit, the bank said: "We do not see sterling (currently) fully pricing a hard Brexit outcome."Combined with limited adjustment in the UK’s current account deficit and slowing growth, we see further downside, and forecast $1.06 in by year-end."
I don't like the direction the UK is going, but I'm not going to secede. That's just silly.
molgrips - Member
I don't like the direction the UK is going, but I'm not going to secede. That's just silly.
dunno its quite tempting looking at some of the impressively boigoted comments that appear below BBC article about Brexit or Scottish indipendence
GrahamS - MemberThis one sbob?
I'm not sure.
Are you linking to a story of a positive nature, or dwelling on negativity and proving my point?
😛
Rees-Mogg eh?
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html ]"Britain could slash environmental and safety standards 'a very long way' after Brexit, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg says
The MP said standards that were 'good enough for India' could be good enough for the UK"[/url]
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/oct/24/tory-anti-green-environment-corporate ]While Rees-Mogg's firm profits from fracking abroad, Rees-Mogg himself uses his own parliamentary privilege to advocate fracking at home, while promoting a kind of free market extremism[/url]
He's not exactly fighting corporate interests, is he?
dunno its quite tempting looking at some of the impressively boigoted comments that appear below BBC article about Brexit or Scottish indipendence
Brexit has divided the country more cleanly and effectively than any other metric we have ever come up with.
Are you linking to a story of a positive nature, or dwelling on negativity and proving my point?
I'm linking to a positively spun story and giving you my take on it.
Not sure what your point is? Media bias? Both aspects of that story were reported.