The government will still have to see through the challenge to the Supreme Court first, as the AG & govt are duty bound to protect the perogative powers of the Crown.
You clearly haven't understood this at all (I can hear the crowd gasping in surprise). The perogative powers of the Crown are unaffected, and have just been clarified as what most people already thought them to be. The government has no duty to try expanding them beyond what is customarily accepted, whatever drivel IDS might be spouting.
Just read the ruling itself - or at least the FTs extracts of it - and it comes down to the HC's ruling that to repeal ECA 1972 requires another AoP. Fair enough.
So HoP now has to pass the Act so that negotiations can start. We have to make this nightmare as short as possible, not stretch it out. What a bit of a mess
The Brexshiteers seem to be overreacting to this. The end is the same, the process is different.
There is no negotiation position- we (primarily the English) have shown our true colour's by prevent democracy the very thing Brexiteers have screamed against. Here is the news
NO ONE TAKES US SERIOUSLY ANYMORE...
WE ARE ROUNDLY DISLIKED ACROSS THE WORLD...
WHAT THE * DID YOU EXPECT...
IT'S NOT COMPLICATED - ACT LIKE A * GET TREAT LIKE A ****
And commons and lords will want a pound of flesh here or there to pass that Bill
chewkw, a question for you. Very simple one.
How does a Chinese-speaking bureaucrat, non-native, non-resident, non-EU, get to vote in UK referenda?
If you're attached to the Embassy, you don't have this privilege. How then?
Chewkw - The government are not in charge - they are simply the executive, the day to day managers. This is a parliamentary democracy and parliament are sovereign. All that has happened is that the quiet coup planned by Theresa's executive, has been put back in its box and democracy has been restored. Now stop whining.
Point of order, cody, my neighbour speaks Chinese and got a vote (because he's Malaysian strangely enough)
codybrennan - Member
chewkw, a question for you. Very simple one.
How does a Chinese-speaking bureaucrat, non-native, non-resident, non-EU, get to vote in UK referenda?
If you're attached to the Embassy, you don't have this privilege. How then?
Because he's the most blatant troll possible and his many previous forum IDs have all been banned...
codybrennan - Member
chewkw, a question for you. Very simple one.How does a Chinese-speaking bureaucrat, non-native, non-resident, non-EU, get to vote in UK referenda?
If you're attached to the Embassy, you don't have this privilege. How then?
A bureaucrat that knows the system can navigate through all bureaucratic systems.
Hence, I can see EU bureaucratic system clearer than you lot and the way they tighten the noose on you lot you have not seen anything yet.
Yes, yes, I heard you the first time about Parliamentary democracy. I roughly understand how they work ... but you are going to shoot yourself in you foot soon if you lot keep banging on Parliamentary democracy by rejecting the people's will.igm - Member
This is a parliamentary democracy and parliament are sovereign.
Is chewkw actually jambalaya? If not, he's obviously hailing from some parallel reality where everyone is super rich, and if they lose thier jobs, it doesn't matter as they were only doing them to appear productive?
Point of order: engaging with him is futile
I find the fact so many of you still try stranger than his posts
The perogative powers of the Crown are unaffected, and have just been clarified as what most people already thought them to be. The government has no duty to try expanding them beyond what is customarily accepted, whatever drivel IDS might be spouting.
The question there is whether something makes the EU treaties different from other treaties, which do fall under the prerogative
Clearly this court found that there was
The Supreme Court may well agree, or not.
Except, as pointed out, we can't negotiate till after A50 - so the govt need room to negotiate, which the MPs will have to give them
You can repeat this as many times as you like, it doesn't mean a negotiating position can't be set out, either by the government, or the HoC. Or do you think they should go into negotiations with no idea what they want and no aims?
Hang on, if you want full flexibility of outcomes, then one possible outcome springs to mind that you may not have considered...
It said acts of parliament which give us rights can only be removed by acts of parliamentThe question there is whether something makes the EU treaties different from other treaties, which do fall under the prerogative
it said nothing at all about treaties it spoke only of acts of parliaments that give us rights
[b]What was the legal basis that swayed the decision?[/b]
Legal affairs commentator Joshua Rozenberg said the decision had been based on the argument the government could not use its executive powers because it would mean effectively overturning an act of Parliament.
Triggering Article 50 would eventually lead to the UK leaving the EU, which effectively takes away rights granted by Parliament, such as the right to free movement in Europe.
The High Court ruling effectively defined the limits of government power by reiterating that Parliament is sovereign - it can create laws and only Parliament can take them away.
Gentle nudge
Is this true , do you have a source?govt are duty bound to protect the perogative powers of the Crown
are they - is there a parliamentary act that demands they do this
IS this true? Genuine q btw
you can usually find a good source so what have you got?
There is no negotiation position- we (primarily the English) have shown our true colour's by...
Oi! Don't forget the Welsh. Racist.
The question there is whether something makes the EU treaties different from other treaties, which do fall under the prerogative
Which other treaties have an Act of Parliament behind them? I'll make this simple for you - the HC has simply confirmed the well understood principle that the royal perogative can't be used to overrule an Act of Parliament. ISTR we chopped the head off the last bloke who tried, so Theresa should count herself lucky.
Super rich I am not but certainly I am not going to agree with the EU bureaucrats..mattyfez - Member
Is chewkw actually jambalaya? If not, he's obviously hailing from some parallel reality where everyone is super rich, and if they lose thier jobs, it doesn't matter as they were only doing them to appear productive?
Are you lot remainders having some sort of crocodile tears? I think that's the correct description - pretending to be loosing but quietly confident?
"A50 shouldn't be cast until we know exactly what Brexit involves, and the answer will remain we won't know because we can't negotiate till after A50 is issued."
That little impasse may save May from having to do it. The MPs can reasonably refuse to vote in favour without more detail, but more detail is in the gift of 27 other nations.
It's all perfectly fudgable and if it isn't considered important enough to backtrack out of clearly it's not likely to be that damaging in the opinion of the establishment.
Ok so lets say that the HoP says you can only negotiate on the basis of XYZ, then the EU says no you can only have Z and then we compromise on YZ. Would we be able to proceed?
Or is the HoP going to say, you, the people can have what you want but only on the terms that we decide. And since we have determined that it's XYZ or nothing, it's tough shit guys, it no deal....
@Junky
it said nothing at all about treaties it spoke only of acts of parliaments that give us rights
You mean apart from paragraph 30?
[i]30. Another settled feature of UK constitutional law is that, as a general rule applicable in normal circumstances, the conduct of international relations and the making and unmaking of treaties on behalf of the United Kingdom are regarded as matters for the Crown in the exercise of its prerogative powers.[/i]
Along with para 31, 32 and 33?
If you've read the ruling in that detail, why are you being so dim? "in normal circumstances"
In what way do you think this ruling affects the royal perogative in any way in which it has previously been used? This ruling simply puts May back in her box, and clarifies that she can't do something completely new with it.
Why do people on here converse with Junkyard..... You do realise he's been banned from loads of forums for arguing???
THM - every negotiating team has limits on its authority. Parliament says XYZ, EU says X, but not YZ, and if there's an impasse the negotiating team has to return to base for discussions. Maybe parliament softens its stance maybe not.
Ok, point taken.. I'll not give the troll any more food.
Back on topic, I'm actually Welsh, but have lived in england since I was a tot..I've always thought of myself as a british/eu citizen.. but some of the bile that's surfacing at the moment, I'd be happy to renounce my british citizenship in order to retain my EU status.
can you confirm your initial statement - duty bound re royal prerogative- was correct before we get on to your next failure with facts ?
bloodynora - Member
Why do people on here converse with Junkyard..... You do realise he's been banned from loads of forums for arguing??
Cos its STW.....obvs.
And Junky's ok.
[quote=bloodynora ]Why do people on here converse with Junkyard..... You do realise he's been banned from loads of forums for arguing???
This is still a lie, no matter how many times you say it, as I dont even frequent other forums. I say this every time you bring up this same lie but it seems to not deter you from saying it.
FWIW i am happy if you follow your own advice 😉
And he's good at scrabble.
Junky is a good guy.
Why do people on here converse with Junkyard..... You do realise he's been banned from loads of forums for arguing???
The same junkyard that sent me some gear shifters but ignored my email request asking how I can pay him... what an arsehole. He's alright by me.
Why do people on here converse with Junkyard..... You do realise he's been banned from loads of forums for arguing???
What on earth are you on about? It's certainly an interesting point to make as what appears to be your first contribution to this thread, and first post in months.
Though I'm not sure why I'm conversing with you...
"Ok so lets say that the HoP says you can only negotiate on the basis of XYZ, then the EU says no you can only have Z and then we compromise on YZ. Would we be able to proceed?
Or is the HoP going to say, you, the people can have what you want but only on the terms that we decide. And since we have determined that it's XYZ or nothing, it's tough shit guys, it no deal...."
If the establishment don't want to do it the terms were offered being deemed completely unacceptable seems as good an excuse as any. Personally I can't see how an organisation with a history for lengthy inconclusive trade deals is going to come up with a coherent agreement in 2 years. Feels to me like the only way out is stop paying, stop attending the meetings, change our law, and start collecting import tariffs. The EU will work out we've left soon enough.
If the EU help us to leave promptly in 2 years with a good deal before long there will be no EU.
as I dont even frequent other forums.
Cos you're banned?
Btw yes he is a nice guy but I never got those wheels.. what happened into the end?
I think your feeling is due to class conflict based on my observation of British society. Your class system is still very strong no matter how you try to dismiss them. My leftard colleagues are all very class conscious to the point of instantly creating prejudice and bias when they see a "Tory boy".mattyfez - Member
Back on topic, I'm actually Welsh, but have lived in england since I was a tot..I've always thought of myself as a british/eu citizen.. but some of the bile that's surfacing at the moment, I'd be happy to renounce my british citizenship in order to retain my EU status.
And it's his go . Nudge.
e-mails molly
How can i be banned if i dont frequent other forums? Again I have never posted on another forum.
Its probably fair to say i would run the risk of being banned were I to frequent other ones.
Just joshing.
Anyway. What to brexites make of this, another bregret poll?
Surely if the majority really do not want to leave, we MUST NOT trigger A50, by your own logic? If the poll is accurate, how can you ignore it?
[quote=zippykona ]And he's good at scrabble.
But not frequent 😉
I think your feeling is due to class conflict based on my observation of British society. Your class system is still very strong no matter how you try to dismiss them. My leftard colleagues are all very class conscious to the point of instantly creating prejudice and bias when they see a "Tory boy".
I've reported this user as a troll as it's getting a bit silly. Hopefully a ban.
There was a bit on a news roport that I caught on the Beeb where the interviewee/reported contributor said that if the court's decision is reversed thet there will be blood on the streets.
Nic bunch, and not the same as the suck it up, buttercup advice given to us remainers.
I just wish that the brexiters could identify what it is that they want and bloody well go for it. All this pissing around is making us a laughing stock.
How can i be banned if i dont frequent other forums? Again I have never posted on another forum.
Hard not to believe that. I can't see how you'd find the time 😉
mattyfez - Member
I've reported this user as a troll as it's getting a bit silly. Hopefully a ban.
My apology to you in the previous response as I did not intend to troll.
It would be very silly of me to do that since I have just returned.
I have refrained from responding to some posters if I feel they can be offended, hence I only response if they are willing to response to me.
I do not know if you are "baiting" me but if you do you have succeeded.
I will let the mod(s) be the judge of my previous response as I sincerely do not intend to offense.
The description of my colleagues are merely for my colleagues where on this forum I have never used them to refer to anyone else STW.
I shall stop responding to you from now on so please do not response to mine in case we miss understand each other..
😆
And from the sublime, to the ridiculous.
BoardinBob - Member
codybrennan - Member
chewkw, a question for you. Very simple one.
Because he's the most blatant troll possible and his many previous forum IDs have all been banned...
This is my [u]Only[/u] forum ID on STW.
I have never had any other IDs nor created any new ones since I joined STW.
You can verify that with mods.
