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TJ since 2008 there must have been 250,000 job losses in the City. The majority of people I know 45+ have been made redundant and won't in all likelihood get another job in banking. Barclays laid off something like 3,000 highly paid people (avg £200k pa) in 2015 just before Christmas and it didn't even make the papers.
Well she has been desperate to get away from it so why not stick it in there....
Thank you captain, but we already have confirmation that Brexshit does not affect our membership of ECHR from b r
Its entirely related to Brexshit though, they are pursuing both Brexit and exit from the ECHR to achieve a common goal.
I've just installed the google addon,the political threads suddenly make a lot more sense,an annoying buzzing in my ear has vanished,and my blood pressure appears to be returning to normal 😆
Shame nobody told UKIP that, anyway whats to stop her just adding it to her little red lines...
[i]Thank you captain, but we already have confirmation that Brexshit does not affect our membership of ECHR from br [/I]
FFS get a grip. What world do you live in that night doesn't follow day?
Capn, you are conveniently forgetting that
1. She was in favour of remain
2. The Gov was in favour of remain
3. She is executing something that she didn't want but the majority of voters voted for
So the attempt to put 2 and 2 together to make 8 is flawed from the outset.
The old word before #posttruth politics where people were prepared to deal with facts not fiction.
I appreciate that I am out of touch in that respect. Let's just banter around with fiction, makes much better froth.
You suggested that we'll leave the ECHR. I put it to you that this is untrue and merely an example of more scaremongering of which there has been much on this page alone
That's what you said THM.
I agree that leaving the ECHR is not an automatic consequence of brexit. However, it is May's stated plan to do this after brexit, and she can only do it after brexit. What you call "untrue" and "scaremongering" is explicitly stated as the PM's plan in that article.
It isn't, correct. Glad that's cleared up.
Who knows what 2020 will bring?
Its untrue to claim that well leave the ECHR.
Anyway I am going to watch PMQ - haven't heard from Jezza for a while
1. She was in favour of remain [b]She kept really quiet[/b]
2. The Gov was in favour of remain [b]and they are also in favour of a lot of things[/b]
3. She is executing something that set didn't want but the majority of votes for [b]with her own slant on things, a lot of interpretation going on in there[/b]
4 She is a long standing critic of EU courts and human rights from them as it kept getting in her way of doing things because she never bothered to check if it was allowed....
Oh and 2020 is not the real problem it's what gets lumped in the "Great Repeal Bill" of stuff we don't like and we have a majority that is the real issue.
She may be
Still that doesn't mean that Brexit affects out membership of the ECHR. It doesn't. Simple.
2020 is important if it is true that May wants to ADD membership of the ECHR to the manifesto for the next GE
Otherwise it's a red herring and mere scaremongering. QED
The article b_r linked to states:
"The Prime Minister is understood to be backing plans to “lift and shift” human rights enshrined in the European Convention and write them into UK law".
It cites the issue of a couple of terrorists it was difficult to "deal with" because the ECHR got in the way. So the change which affects us all is to cover a vanishingly small number of incidents.
It's a rollin thing though, what gives you confidence that TM is acting in the best interest of the entire country at this point? Not many think she is or the party/idiots she leads. With no effective opposition this is a really dangerous time for the country, it gives a higher level of power to one side and in this time of major change where the main aim is to shut people out that is never going to end well.
She is getting on with things while others want to ignore reality
Agree that the opposition is weak, especially it's leadership but let's not forget this government has a slim majority and is in a quite weak position. In the case of Brexshit, the Oppo agreed with the Gov and made the majority significantly higher.
May was never a commited remainer, she has always been and always will be a political opportunist.
I think it is you THM, who is ignoring the reality of what May wants to achieve.
Anyone else fit that description - the "leader" of the Oppo for example?
Simple fact is: the government promised to respect and implement the result of the vote. That is what is happening. Call it what you like....it doesn't change anything
On the contrary, I am one of the few remainers who is prepared to accurately represent what May is doing. You, in contrast, prefer to exaggerate for effect. I don't think this helps OUR case. Hence my reference to the FT article yesterday
ah if in doubt whataboutery...
Do you trust TM? Would you leave her the keys to your house (bad question she has a copy and the alarm codes and use of your web cams)
reminds me of the news quiz last week, you wouldn't trust the Trumps to feed your cat while you were on holiday it would end up dead or pregnant. TM would probably use it for a fabric sample for her next outfit
Offline for a bit. Will catch up later 🙂
I place little trust in politicians, hence I am always surprised by calls to have them controlling more of our economy. Madness in my mind.
Again refer to my reference to FT article yesterday. It mirrors my views well.
Back up the thread a bit but we do a fair bit of risk management and mitigation for clients (not moving businesses but risk is risk just like Brexit is Brexit)
Making a potential structural change to a business process due to a potential change is usually based upon hedging of bets v cost
So first question will be "if this change occurs what is the impact" and in this case it is potentially significant to certain banks. Second question what is the cost of mitigating that risk both in people and finances and in this case the banks can afford to relocate and take people with them. The last question is likley do want want to leave any resources in the high risk place to retain some foothold if the change does not occur?
Looking at it from this perspective with my risk "knowledge" I think all banks that may have a issue will probably take a 60/40 split. They will move 60% + of activity into the EU and leave a footprint behind- if Brexit is grim they will slowly move the remaining business to the EU if it's good they will leave the footprint in place.
Gulliver was referring to the issue of business that is directly covered by EU legislation. IIRC this account for 20% of HSBC's revenues (although this could be 20% of their markets revenues, not 100% sure).
So he is referring to contingency plans for that aspect of their bussiness. Moving people is one solution but by no means the only one, As ever banks have ways of getting round thus eg, back-to-back trading etc
I have told my MP if banks / financial services want a special deal with the EU THEY should pay for it. I'll wager they'll shut up pretty promptly. Moving their staff to another EU country will add 25-30% to staff costs
W T Actual F???
So hang on. Banks who had nothing to do with the EU vote, but could suffer severe consequences, should then pay for the privilege to be able to continue to do business as they have done, and if they can't then they should be expected to swallow a 25% to 30% increase in staff costs (plus countless other costs)
You are an absolute fantasist.
A comfortable old man that says screw everyone else, I'm alright jack.
In answer to Wicki a few pages back, I don't see Brits in most European countries having much trouble post Brexit. I think there are about 150 000 Americans of voting age in France despite the bureaucratic obstacles (there was something about how French living Americans vote during the elections). The desire to exclude is one sided, and the being spat on and insulted [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-a7424396.html ](and worse)[/url]very one sided.
Even Le Pen excludes Europeans from her plans to repatriate immigrants.
What are the reactions to Macrons message to May, i.e. pay up or pay up?
What are the reactions to Macrons message to May, i.e. pay up or pay up?
French Presidential candidate making a comment to appeal to electorate is hardly news and certainly wasn't here - it will be interesting to see if his Trump like campaign succeeds.
Jamba said
TJ what a total load of bollix
The irony in that overwhelms me, Jamba you are such a hypocrite 🙄
This thread gets weirder. Jambas finally ( 😉 ) says something true on Brexshit* and he gets called a hypocrite.
Bizarre!
(* excuse the little joke there Jambas!)
Oh THM you are such a wag, Jamba doesn't know, you don't know. I have a friend who is a banker in Singapore who says the same as TJ and he doesn't know but one thing we all know Jamba is a hypocrite
There's more than one of those
(and I am directly involved, so sorry I know when someone is talking bllx too)
THM yes you do, yes you do
To be fair, he is right in saying the risk is not that great. Banks with existing European operations will rejig if required and this will involve some transfer of staff. J P Morgan has actually been in France longer than the UK: Banks without an EU operation are looking to get approval in another jurisdiction, Ireland and the Netherlands being the most popular based on the guys I know. Where we will miss out is new businesses are unliekly to set up in London until the way forward is clear.
I think the insurance market has more issues.
Indeed mefty but that doesn't scare people enough
I worked for the UK's oldest bank in paris in the 90s as did my wife (for a UK rival), nothing new and nothing new in the Paris/London/Frankfurt rivalry for financial services
I hope the plans of now amis to add 375,000 sq m of new office space to accommodate their new amis anglais are not based on similarly over-hyped assumptions
7 new skyscrapers for La Defence....
amusing marketing tag line: "Tired of the fog? Try the frogs!" Tres amusant
Paris/London/Frankfurt rivalry for financial services
Although we tend to do quite well in this one
Brilliant - wasn't Brexit supposed to get rid of the all the nasty foreigners?
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/we-will-need-eu-migrants-for-years-admits-davis/ar-AAncHVo?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartandhp
Done a few pages back!
Balls - that'll teach me to only look back a couple of pages 🙂
Still good to get back on track - its an important trend that indicates a certain frame of mind (compromise) on a key issue (immigration) from a hardliner (DD)
The divorce bill headlines are going to be q something in next few weeks. Junker is prioritising this it seems, with Barnier being the good cop to his bad cop.
Who blinks first - reckon the EU have more trumps than we do.....
Lord Kerr (author of Article 50) on Brexit in House of Lords earlier: "The Bullingdon boys will be just fine, others won't be".
Lord Kerr (author of Article 50) on Brexit in House of Lords earlier: "The Bullingdon boys will be just fine, others won't be".
I not sure why this guy is given lots of credibility, he is a diplomat who served at the EU, if he was any good at drafting, a lot less money would have been spent on lawyers.
jambalaya - MemberHSBC said it was considering moving up to 1,000 roles - nothing confirmed about it at all
ORLY?
[url= http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-4132406/HSBC-1-000-jobs-Paris-London.html ]http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-4132406/HSBC-1-000-jobs-Paris-London.html[/url]
"Activities covered specifically by European financial regulation will need to move"
[url= http://www.euronews.com/2017/01/18/hsbc-to-move-1000-staff-from-london-to-paris-after-brexit ]http://www.euronews.com/2017/01/18/hsbc-to-move-1000-staff-from-london-to-paris-after-brexit[/url]
"We will move in about two years time when Brexit becomes effective”
Yep, will of the people...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/23/theresa-may-brexit-will-of-the-people
Ta northwind - you of course must be talking cobblers as well tho as in Jambaworld its all roses and anything that shows what a disaster leaving the EU is going to be must be wrong
Glad to hear some realism from Barc CEO today instead of exaggerated nonsense
Barclays will keep the bulk of its operations in London after Brexit, [b]even if the UK loses access to the single market,[/b] chief executive Jes Staley says.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39062975
From the horse's mouth
Yes that's a fabulous vote of confidence in brexit britain that a british bank will not move all of its activities, though he didn't manage to say that they would not move a substantial (albeit minority) part.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]Glad to hear some realism from Barc CEO today instead of exaggerated nonsense
Barclays will keep the bulk of its operations in London after Brexit, even if the UK loses access to the single market, chief executive Jes Staley says.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39062975
From the horse's mouth
Barclays is a very UK centric bank workforce wise. Their Investment Bank workforce only makes up about 15% of their total workforce, and they will no doubt be spread globally. So the headcount impact for Barclays in the UK would be small, but I'm betting the financial impact is big
Barclays’ international unit, which includes its investment bank, increased pre-tax profits from £2.3bn to £4.1bn, as revenues rose 9 per cent to £15bn.
https://www.ft.com/content/d1286f4c-f99f-11e6-9516-2d969e0d3b65
So there may not be a massive shift in employees, but if they start earning their international income primarily outside the uk, then surely the uk tax take will ultimately fall?
Glad to hear some realism from Barc CEO today instead of exaggerated nonsense
From that I got that there is a subsidiary in Ireland which will probably allow them to conitue with their current, albeit small (only 8 countries) business in Europe and a Credit Card company, which is probably stand alone.
So Barclays aren't bothered because they have little interest in Europe. I bet they're glad they didn't get involved with ABN AMRO.
I read the FT first thing thx and am aware that Barc earns 50% of income from UK
The point is simple - we don't need to massively exaggerate what banks are planning (and it all depends on what happens with passporting etc)
We should stick to facts not BS and hyperbole. The baton seems to have been passed from the Brexshiteers to the Remoaners. Its sad.
I read the FT first thing thx and am aware that Barc earns 50% of income from UK
God forbid, I wasn't trying to tell you anything, just concluding that brexshit isn't going to have such a profound effect on them. So, it's not much of a story in reality.
I wonder whether we should look the other way and start to see what'll happen when/if Santander pull out.
We know the answer to that, they remain committed to the UK. Botin said so last month.
And you trust her?
How has the family got on with their fraud charges?
She runs the bank. Ignore her if you want to. Perhaps you are suggesting that she is deliberately misleading the market - a serious accusation
The one she inherited.
But how is this trustworthy family getting on with their fraud charges?
She did correct, the family have always controlled the bank closely.
No idea, do tell me...not sure what it has to do with Brexit but interesting nonetheless
No idea, do tell me...not sure what it has to do with Brexit but interesting nonetheless
Has everything to do with being trustworthy and you've put your faith in the words of a Botín, I wouldn't.
#Corrupt
Ok take it back, let's all assume that she is lying and that SAN is leaving the UK post-Brexshit despite assurances to the contrary. Happy?
What else can we make up?
I don't know. What are the likely consequences and the consequenses of all those other European companies that are likely to pull out as they have minor business interests in UK?
What else can we make up?
Made up? You have all the answers, do you? Much as you would like to think that you do, I can assure you that you don't. And you don't like that, do you?
And with one snide little comment you put yourself right down there with chewkw.
I don't I am waiting to hear all about the fraud. Please do tell. I also read a lot to try to understand many things including why people are compelled to talks such shite at the moment.
In the meantime I am writing an email to Anna
Dear Ms Botin,
I have been advised that your operations in the UK that generated 20% of group 2016 PAT, close to Brazil's 21% and almost double Spain is now considered a minor business interest. Please can we meet to discuss possible disposal options? As the largest challenger bank in the UK, this will not be difficult and will allow you to focus your efforts on your fraud defence.
Yours,
THM
I wonder if she'll bite? Worth a chance with 2% advisory fees....
[I]Barclays will keep the bulk of its operations in London after Brexit, even if the UK loses access to the single market, chief executive Jes Staley says.[/I]
I read that as "we'll only move the units/people we need to move", and tbh why would you expect them to do anything different?
What matters to the UK (income) is what impact this will have on tax-take (both corporate and personal) and the spending of the employees net earnings. Even if only 100 employees are moved it will have a negative impact, as there won't be many on benefits moving 🙂
You seem to be in denial about the most probable consequences of Brexit on the banking industry post brexit, THM. Speculation or predictions based on probable outcomes? Why would 27 countries leave conditions in place that mean the City is top dog in European banking? The obvious answer is they won't.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/jan/23/spain.money ]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/jan/23/spain.money[/url]
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/jun/16/santander-botin-family-tax-fraud-probe ]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/jun/16/santander-botin-family-tax-fraud-probe[/url]
[url=http://]http://[/url]
[url= http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/business/global/court-closes-tax-case-against-spains-leading-banker.html ]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/business/global/court-closes-tax-case-against-spains-leading-banker.html[/url]
Fortunately the only crime they committed was that of getting caught and being able to pay it off. Probably in 9 bob notes or Mickey Thomas Tenners.
And you think that she'll honour her word.
#Sucker
Of courses it's a negative if we lose business, that's a given. What is not given is that all the banks in the city of London are planning to leave. That's BS.
We are a long way from knowing what the agreements in financial services are going to be/look like. It is a fair assumption that they will not be as good as now, but that's about it.
#sucker
gee, thanks, who loves yu baby?
btw, those are very impressive googling skills on display. So the most recent article from 2012 states that the case was closed. Hmm...
Very good grounds to assume that Ms Botin is now lying totally and that SAN is about to leave the UK along with all the other banks in the City of London.
Glad that's cleared up. We can send all those retail bankers down't pit and get back't proper graft. Success in rebalancing the economy, Hey this Brexshit stuff is magic isn't it?!?
ED, sorry missed your post. Not in denial at all, I am deeply involved. But prefer perspective to BS even though that approach is very passé these days.
btw, those are very impressive googling skills on display. So the most recent article from 2012 states that the case was closed. Hmm...
Which is precisely why I was somewhat thrown by the fact that someone who is so knowledgeable knew so little of Santander Fraud cases. They all appear on the first Google page. I am aware that they are old cases, I'm also aware that they are cleared up, I did put that link up too.
I am, however, shocked, although not surprised, that you're putting your faith in the words of a woman who has earned her wealth from the hard work of her dead husband, who has a history of being part of a dynasty that has accumulated its wealth on the back of corruption (do some Spanish research for this one) and paid off its debts with the proceeds of crime.
Good on ya.
Glad that's cleared up.
Come clean now, you are chewkw's slightly more arrogant brother, aren't you? Back in your box now.
And heaven forbid that the BoE and the FCA allow her to be here. Shocking isn't it???
Perhaps they will boot her out instead of waiting for her to leave due to Brexshit?
Funny old world. Anything to add to our letter - you can have a cut of the fees for coming up with such a good idea.
In the meantime:
Dear FCA,
A MTB acquaintance and I are most concerned that Ms Botin is allowed to run the UK's largest challenger bank. You appear to be #suckers (join the club). Please sort this out ASAP as its a scandal.
Please also keep us informed as we are seeking a mandate to sell SAN to another bank as we know that no Foreigner would want to own a UK bank now. Why would they?
Silver linings, though, less work for you to do. Fancy a round of golf on Friday...11:00 ok.
Yours
THM
And heaven forbid that the BoE and the FCA allow her to be here. Shocking isn't it???
I don't see the relevance to your earlier point.
She may well be complying, that doesn't change the fact that you're accepting the word of a Botín, who has been demonstrated to be part of a fraudulent business. You think that now she's telling the truth and will honour what she says. I say that she'll say one thing and do what's good for herself and Banco Santander, moreover herself. Of course, we've not seen any dodgy banking practices here in the UK under the watch of the BoE, have we chewkw?
Lol de Lol.
Are you asking me to have faith in you, a banking employee (it's not Santander, is it? I've witnessed how these Spanish banks brainwash their employees, Santander and BBVA alike), I'd rather trust a hooker without a condom. 😛
I appreciate that you are unlikely to see the relevance. It's ok.
Yours,
Chewkw's long lost brother
I appreciate that you are unlikely to see the relevance. It's ok.
I don't understand why you trust a proven fraudester, no. But I guess you think you're smarter than me though.
Not at all, I'm a sucker, you told me so. Still I am in good company.
Dear Governor of the Bank of England,
I am delighted to be offering your membership of SUCKUK. Membership to this club is limited to those fools who are prepared to accept the word of a certain Ms Botin. As you know, she is preparing to leave the UK following the Brexhsit vote,,,,,
....
Yours as ever,
THM
P.S. Golf on Thursday? I have a big match on Friday and need some practice.
teamhurtmore - MemberNot at all, I'm a sucker, you told me so. Still I am in good company.
Dear Governor of the Bank of England,
I am delighted to be offering your membership of SUCKUK. Membership to this club is limited to those fools who are prepared to accept the word of a certain Ms Botin. As you know, she is preparing to leave the UK following the Brexhsit vote,,,,,
....
Yours as ever,
THM
P.S. Golf on Thursday? I have a big match on Friday and need some practice.
And I can take the piss out of you too. I'm probably more subtle though. Suck it up banker.
I would love to suck it up (baby) but I don't work for a bank, sorry.
How subtle is a brick?
How subtle is a brick?
You've lost me now. I wish I'd listened at school.
Santander are here for domestic UK banking primarily, they own the old Abbey NAtional. Alliance & Leicester and Bradford and Bingley businesses. There is no logical reason why they would want to divest themselves of these domestic businesses simply because the UK leaves the EU.
Edukator, the reason the 27 countries will have to live with the City is because many of their companies and governments rely on it to fund themselves. No other European centre is even close to offering the competiveness (i.e cheapness) of funding opportunities.
[s]So do[/s] ah forget it....
Mefty, now don't you go spoiling things with your sensible background material. It's a minority business interest of no relevance to the fraudsters who own it. You heard it here first. #BREAKINGNKNONNEWS
They will be outta here faster than you can say "Barclays Bank"
[I]Of courses it's a negative if we lose business, that's a given. What is not given is that all the banks in the city of London are planning to leave. That's BS.[/I]
Not sure where you heard all the banks are leaving, the only jobs/roles/departments that'll initial move is those that will have to - the rest will depend on whether it's more effective to have them here, there or somewhere else. BAU