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🙂 I did used to live next to the Cathedral used in The Omen !
Scot we are nearly out of Lloyds after a recent share sale. RBS was clearly a massive error from Brown wrt bailout, wrong price and insufficient control despite 80% shareholding. Most of the bailout was in form of loans which have either been paid back or will be. The Asset Protection scheme (insurance) resulted in a massive profit £8bn I recall but wouod need to check. The smaller regionals like Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Northern Rock are all break even / profit I believe having been wound down/sold/restructured.
Why so mol?
Because they are not very good at it. Simple,
[I]Junky I know many bankers who have lost amounts in the tens of millions on shares in their employers. Just look at bank share prices since say 2006. A very large portion of Lehman Brothers employees held large numbers of shares for example.[/I]
Yep, pretty much proved what we came to find out - they didn't really understand risk. Every company I've worked for that awarded me shares I sold straight away.
Company goes pop, you lose your job and your shares are valueless. It's not difficult.
[I]The big row is going to be whether the EU will discuss trade before we finalise this "exit bill", another reason why I say plan A is WTO tariffs with all amounts routed to NHS and let's just get on with focusing globally. [/I]
Sorry, did you miss my post a few pages back where even the most committed of Brexiters in Govt have finally worked out that WTO will be a disaster - I gave you a couple of goes at answering...
I'm looking forward to watching the forthcoming tory party explosion when they eventually realise that they can't actually have their cake and eat it. Given that they'll have the choice between crashing out to North Korea status, or remaining an EU member in all but name, it's hard to see the former attracting a majority of MPs and choosing the latter will lose half their voters to UKIP.
It will be an entertaining couple of years.
just wanted to be on this page 😈
as you were 😀
thecaptain - Member
... crashing out to North Korea status, ...
North Korea is doing just fine. They don't cause harm to anyone and they do not intervene in others' affairs unlike busy body EU system. North Korea just want to live in peace with their own Korean people.
Are you afraid of isolation?
jambalaya - Memberso that's smoke and mirrors about whether it's paid to the EU first and then back to the UK
Why does that sound familiar?
North Korea is doing just fine.
Unless you actually have to live there with the death camps and starving millions...
Are you afraid of isolation?
Depends who I'm isolate with, and cut off from…
But THM was arguing how we coudl not trust politicans as they are bad at investing and here we have the bankers being bad at investingJunky I know many bankers who have lost amounts in the tens of millions on shares in their employers. Just look at bank share prices since say 2006. A very large portion of Lehman Brothers employees held large numbers of shares for example.
Have we finally all agreed that the sector that makes the decision is no indication of how good the decision is and the decision is not magically good[ or bad] because it was made by a politician, a business leader or a shareholder/investor.
Any of these groups can make good or bad decisions and if you dislike one of them its because of your personal politics - hence THM [ neutral but always agreeing with Tory ideology ] distrust politicians.
That was my only point both sectors make errors and it seems like we all agree on that.
Are you afraid of isolation?
Of course!
They'll be no isolation in a free Yorkshire, the bike rides are so good people queue to get in.
that will be at the paying booths no doubt 😉
Another gift to Greece from the generous Germans
that will be at the paying booths no doubt
Of course a wall will be needed. But that will be paid for those wanting to visit. Definitely not by Yorkshire.
@slowoldman, I see you have joined the Yorkshire Freedom Party. A wall around Gods country paid for by a tax on goods from Southerners and Lancashire has been mentioned at the last YFP meeting. However the idea was dropped as there are no taxes generated, due them not having anything worth buying. Everyone know only good stuff comes from Yorkshire.
[i]However the idea was dropped as there are no taxes generated, due them not having anything worth buying.[/I]
Eccles Cakes and Bakewell Tarts?
And tbh taking on the idea of exporting Jam etc, surely there is WORLDWIDE market for Curd Tarts?
Although funny how it's only when you leave Yorkshire that you find out that they are actually referred to as Yorkshire Curd Tarts elsewhere (recently served on a KX-Edinburgh Virgin train). 🙂
Another gift to Greece from the generous Germans
There is no mention of Germans in the article apart from the reference to a German city which had to deal with an unexploded British bomb. Apparently the bomb in Thessaloniki was too degraded to establish weather it was an Allied or German bomb. Or indeed Italian - they bombed Thessaloniki.
I do believe that Curd Tart is the best tart int world (well apart from that lass who sells her assets up Golcar), with that n Yorkshire Puddings the encommy of Gods own Country is assured, especially when you add the Rhubarb triangle. We'll be living of fat o the land (well fish n chips) for years to come.
The Yanks are no doubt dying to buy more of our Rhubarb. Our future as a Free Yorkshire is secured by that fact alone.
Apparently the bomb in Thessaloniki was too degraded to establish weather it was an Allied or German bomb.
You're riight - in fact I did what I criticise others for, neglecting the negative impact of the "allies" on Greece.
The Yanks are no doubt dying to buy more of our Rhubarb. Our future as a Free Yorkshire is secured by that fact alone.
Oddly enough I was chatting to someone at lunch on Friday in the Los Gatos (Bay Area) office of the company I work for. He was saying how much he missed Rhubarb pie.
Apparently American rhubarb isn't as good as the proper stuff.
Let's not forget Henderson's Relish.
Will Free Yorkshire be reverting to pre-1974 Borders?
I'm pretty sure reverting to the old Ridings would be a vote winner.
I'm pretty sure reverting to the old Ridings would be a vote winner.
Not with the poshos in Harrogate and Ripon it wouldn't 😀
The whole thing opens a can of worms - reversion to 1930 borders will be fun around Sheffield,while 1887 borders might be controversial for Singletrack Towers staff as well.
I think we need to be told!
i think we need an non-binding, advisory vote....
The whole thing opens a can of worms - reversion to 1930 borders will be fun around Sheffield,while 1887 borders might be controversial for Singletrack Towers staff as well.
Derbyside area and Yorkshire/Lancashire border will be magically fixed … just like Gibraltar and the NI border will be… just have faith… quit your moaning…
teamhurtmore - Member
i think we need an non-binding, advisory vote....
Annndd... you're banned
Sadly I still reckon he'll win in Stoke
its remarkable that theyve managed to find almost as much of a bullshitter as farige himself
https://twitter.com/hashtag/paulnuttallfacts?src=hash
[url= http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/paul-nuttall-says-claims-not-12590166 ]was he at hillsborough,[/url] [url= https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2368990/new-ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-caught-out-claiming-to-be-a-professional-footballer-on-his-cv/ ] did he really play for tranmere rovers[/url], [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/paul-nuttall-ukip-fake-cv-phd-linked-in-liverpool-hope-university-history-death-penalty-a7454756.html ]does he really have a PhD in history[/url], [url= http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-moves-out-of-stoke-on-trent-house-due-to-safety-fears/story-30129061-detail/story.html?dwrMeth=addComment&afterReg=Y ]did he ever live at his house on stoke before being forced to leave for his own safety[/url]? 😉
Ooh - 667. Fax number of the beast.
North Korea is doing just fine. They don't cause harm to anyone and they do not intervene in others' affairs unlike busy body EU system. North Korea just want to live in peace with their own Korean people.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38947451 ]North Korea test fires ballistic missile[/url]
Fellow people of the County of York, all previous borders of our great county will be respected as long as there is an increase in the Yorkshire land mass. Let's face it, no one will want to be excluded from a free Yorkshire. Those in that don't want a return to the Riddings can burger of to the softy south were its quite clear the belong.
Free Yorkshire an it better be cheap!
Careful mt, sounds like your offering an open border policy to anyone who fancies being a Tyke.
@igm Only if they are born in gods country or what was. It is pleasing to read that the Yorkshire Freedom movement is gain traction.
Jamba
I would be interested in your actual view re WTO, as seriously after reading about it way back it just didn't seem a viable option - and still doesn't now.
Far too many implications that folk have missed, such as agriculture quotas where we'd need to get a percentage off other countries to be able to sell our products.
It's "viable" just the least attractive of the four existing framworiks in terms of facilitating trade and investment. Gives the highest level of fake control which is why some nutters go for it as a first choice.
We should be looking to avoid relying on WTO.
The brexies are so determined to paint the EU as the ultimate evil that WTO must be better, just because it's not the EU.
Check out the comments on a Brexit article on the BBC, for a glimpse into the bonkers world of some of the people out there, (much worse since the telegraph axed it's comments feature)
@br thanks I just went back 10+ pages could only see a Guardian link.
WTO would throw up issues for certain but imo none which aren't solvable. We are not sefl sufficient in food so export doesn't seem a massive priority, we discussed the lamb ariifs a while ago that wouod need looking at. WTO is quite protectionist around food and would certainky be a major issie for EU's exports to us.
I believe I am right in saying the US is the EU's largest trading partner and thats all WTO.
In ofher news I see Junker says he won't stand again, he sounds a bit like Sepp Blatter with an equal amount of integrity ! Also supposedly said on German radio he expects the EU cohesion to start to splinter as UK offers different deals to different nations as its allowed to on non-trade matter AFAIK.
It's come to my attention that this thread is being hijacked by other issues of no value. Can we please keep it to a Free Yorkshire. Who or what is this EU and Britex of which many speak? Sounds to me that these folk would not be able to play cricket for Yorkshire (God bless that county name).
Free Yorkshire has been done to death, it wasn't even funny to start with...
[I]I believe I am right in saying the US is the EU's largest trading partner and thats all WTO.[/I]
Yes, but the USA is the worlds largest economy so has certain 'leverage'.
Also you've to remember that no country politician will do any trade deal that is unattractive to their country. Politically (back home) they just can't afford for it to happen, except, where just doing the trade deal is the most politically important thing that could happen...
You don't need leverage wih WTO. That's partly the point its a single framework lots of countries have signed up too.
I personally believe the "never mind the quality feel with width" argumnets about the [b]size[/b] of the "single market" are massively overdone. Yes we want to trade worth the wealthly EU countries like Germany who buy our goods but as export markets a large number of the 27 are pretty worthless and certainly where never worth paying for access too. The real valie was in the UK as an importer. I believe the leverage is very much in our favour.
I think the WTO is viable as it's the [b]the[/b] basis for global trade.
EDIT: just to be coear I think it's better if we could have a free trade deal which covered say 60-70% of existing EU business import/export but if the EU wants to play silly buggars with job preservation politics in Brussels then they can get stuffed. As per any car negotiation thread advice you have to be prepared to walk away.
It seems the EU has done a pretty good job of negotiating steel tariffs with China. No individual country would have had the economic strength to do that, Jamba. That's maintained jobs and strategic manufacturing capacity in Europe (and the UK as it happens).
Must be why they are trying o hard to ensure free trade happens then ehI believe the leverage is very much in our favour.
You can have your opinions but you are putting your politics before the maths, the economics, the reality and the facts. However we dress it up its approx 40% of our trade and 4% of theirs - no one wants to lose it but to claim the smaller partner of 1 has the leverage over the 26 when trade is like this is spectacularly delusional.
problem is they are the only ones with the cars so to walk away is literally what you have to do.As per any car negotiation thread advice you have to be prepared to walk away.
It seems the EU has done a pretty good job of negotiating steel tariffs with China.
They aren't negotiated with China, they are set by the EU but have to be within the terms of the WTO rules.
As per any car negotiation thread advice you have to be prepared to walk away.
But this isn't car negotiation. People's jobs, businesses and livelihoods are at stake. Your posturing is foolish.
But that's just it Mefty, the EU is big enough to apply conditions that may or may not respect WTO rules and brazen it out with no risk of sanctions because China is too dependent on Europe as a market.
Apart from the fact the UK was pushing for a lower tariff, but had to compromise with its EU partners. This is a hardly explored area of the trade debate, the external tariffs of the EU reflect the compromised needs of all its members. Outside the EU we be able to set a package that suits our economy better.
where we want to capitulate/give in/demand less of a trading partner yes where we want more no as we have less strength and are [ literally] worth less.
Its pretty obvious that the larger the trading partner or bloc the more it is worth and the greater its influence and power.
Yes smaller nations may have "more degrees of freedom" but it is not the best option and it may also mean more easily bullied into a poorer deal/deal at any costs
You dont have to be the most business savvy person in the world to know you would be holding the better cards striking a trade deal with us currently nor the most astute person in the world to knwo that trade only at our price is not going to happen We wont be calling the shots their either. I am not sure if we do have more freedom tbh as the price is less power/influence.
mefty - Member
Apart from the fact the UK was pushing for a lower tariff, but had to compromise with its EU partners. This is a hardly explored area of the trade debate, the external tariffs of the EU reflect the compromised needs of all its members. Outside the EU we be able to set a package that suits our economy better.
?
so we should reduce tariffs on steel dumped from China?
Wasnt a Brexiter argument that by leaving the EU we could then increase tariffs ourselves
probably why the Kipper MEPs voted against anti dumping measures then 😉
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-vote-against-eu-law-that-could-have-helped-british-steel-a6964476.html
will we gain in flexibility what we loose in leverage?, the UK steel industry was happy with the EUs actions, it was our own government that upset them
I think that keeping China happy was more of a priority for Osborne at the time than looking after British steel workers
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tata-steel-uk-government-accused-of-failing-to-protect-british-workers-by-blocking-eu-plans-to-allow-a6962446.html
Yep the China steel farce....nothing like having the uk government watching yer back 🙁
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Anyone who speaks lightly of the implications of WTO rules on certain industries within this thread is a fool, WTO presents a catastrophic situation for UK agriculture, and tariff free deals with NZ, AUS, USA will compound the problem. Many other industries including fishing will suffer from very very cheap imports
slowoldman - Member
North Korea is doing just fine. They don't cause harm to anyone and they do not intervene in others' affairs unlike busy body EU system. North Korea just want to live in peace with their own Korean people.
North Korea test fires ballistic missile
Ya, they are doing some routine tests that's all which is just normal fireworks stuff no biggie. The rest of the world, as usual, are just getting a bit dramatic stirring up dirt about such non-issue besides what can the rest of the world do? Embargo? Invade N Korea? 😆
Remember N. Korea doesn't compete for resources and they don't demand from the world so why want to intervene in their affairs? 😯
If the world want to help N.Korea then go do business with N.Korea rather than be dramatic about a non-issue. Trust me it is a non-issue coz they rather trade then to let go fireworks. Japan is being dramatic because they are being circled by two of their arch enemies.
If the world want to help N.Korea then go do business with N.Korea rather than be dramatic about a non-issue.
What a bizarre concept. Do business instead of firing missiles at others. I wonder whether it'd work.
All very strange, probably just end up a bureaucratic mess. 😛
captainsasquatch - Member
If the world want to help N.Korea then go do business with N.Korea rather than be dramatic about a non-issue.
What a bizarre concept. Do business instead of firing missiles at others. I wonder whether it'd work.
All very strange, probably just end up a bureaucratic mess.
Open a dialog. Trade with them. Visit their leader. How hard can that be?
Oh ya ... I forgot you need to speak to N.Korean big bro China if you want to trade with them. In that case just leave N.Korea alone.
Never work, mate. A trade deal to stop people fighting, not a cat's chance in hell! I'm listening though, tell me why you think doing trade with N Korea, and China, will stop them being sabre rattlers.
He's got you chewkw. 😆
Let them sabre rattle at Japan coz that is their rights due to past history. Call it whatever you will but if you want to stop them beating each other up then ask the Japanese Emperor need to bow to apologise. Nothing the rest of the world can do coz that's the nature of things over there.captainsasquatch - Member
Never work, mate. A trade deal to stop people fighting, not a cat's chance in hell! I'm listening though, tell me why you think doing trade with N Korea, and China, will stop them being sabre rattlers.
igm - Member
He's got you chewkw.
No, he hasn't coz he needs to understand the mindset of the people there. 😛
Never work, mate. A trade deal to stop people fighting, not a cat's chance in hell!
It does sound like I've heard it before, from long ago.
Someone older and wiser could probably [url= https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e6_1466658323 ]remind us.[/url]
No, he hasn't coz he needs to understand the mindset of the people there.
And you the mindset of the people here while shouting about the EU.
The odd thing about the whole EU thing is that the Chinese are extremely reticent in talking about it in the same volumes as you chewkw, the racist Indian lady I was talking to on Saturday had the same mindset as you about how unfair it is, as did an Iranian lady I spoke to recently (edit: who was more educated and less racist).
I say that if Asia want to blow itself up, get the f on with it. It's got nothing to do with me, except for the warranty on my Nissan, but as it was built in Spain I should be OK.
EDIT: chewkw, you're only interest is that you see it as unfair, you have to get a visa to work here. Yet a Rumanian can walk in, get a job and live for the rest of their natural. They don't even need to speak English when they get here. How that grates with you, you studied English, maybe had to have an exam, get a visa. And with all that you have no real rights here. That's what gets you so wound up, isn't it?
@oldman you understand under WTO you can put extra tariffs on things, that's effectively what the EU does with stuff from outside, eg thats how they manipulate coffee prices from Africa to Germany's benefit.
@molgrips, the EU needs our financial services more than ever. Whatever they try and say they cannot easily replicate. Tarif cash flow is massively in our favour due to a big trade deficit. Nearly 90% of our economic activity is domestic. Fortunately Remainers aren't doing the negotiations ! If I may say so the Renainers here want a bad outcome so they can say "told you so"
IMO we will be just fine under WTO with Europe.
captainsasquatch - Member
No, he hasn't coz he needs to understand the mindset of the people there.
And you the mindset of the people here while shouting about the EU.
EU is just a silly failed utopian concept that cause more domino misery to the population than good. Nahh ... no comparison. Even a dictatorship that confines his/her own people without bothering others is 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.
Chinese is all for trade so that is a normal behaviour when they see that as their territory. History, yes. Never forget. Both the ladies are reacting normally like everyone else and I do not see them as racists at all. Why force them to like others? They can hang on to their blame whatever but that is their feelings. Normal. Past history is difficult to forget unless you are a living saint.The odd thing about the whole EU thing is that the Chinese are extremely reticent in talking about it in the same volumes as you chewkw, the racist Indian lady I was talking to on Saturday had the same mindset as you about how unfair it is, as did an Iranian lady I spoke to recently.
I say that if Asia want to blow itself up, get the f on with it. It's got nothing to do with me, except for the warranty on my Nissan, but as it was built in Spain I should be OK.
Yes, let them be. Stop intervening in their affairs and let them do the nature work by recycling their own population.
Think of the world resources that need to feed them population. Think of the animals that have to starve and be killed for trying to feed for themselves in land own by people.
Human population is the major problem in this world.
Jamba - you and I can afford to take the hit. Many can't.
EU is just a silly failed utopian concept that cause more domino misery to the population than good. Nahh ... no comparison. Even a dictatorship that confine his/her own people without bothering others are 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.
Biiiiiiiiig yaaaawn! Try taking some of your own advice and keep your bloody nose out of things that a) you don't have the mindset for and b) simply don't concern you.
Fing children and the internet!
everyone else and I do not see them as racists at all.
I assure you that the Indian lady who talked about the, urgh, blacks, was a racist. perhaps you not seeing racism in her makes you a racist too.
It made me think.
captainsasquatch - Member
Biiiiiiiiig yaaaawn! Try taking some of your own advice and keep your bloody nose out of things that a) you don't have the mindset for and b) simply don't concern you.
Fing children and the internet!
I wish I don't have to say anything about EU bureaucratic system but this is a system that must be stop at its root, otherwise it will spread like wild fire burning everything in its path causing even more misery.
I assure you that the Indian lady who talked about the, urgh, blacks, was a racist. perhaps you not seeing racism in her makes you a racist too.
It made me think.
O C'mon ... you simply cannot force people to like each other. I mean if they don't want to mix with others so be it. Different in culture, value, belief etc and if they keep to themselves by not bothering others then I see no wrong.
Even a dictatorship that confines his/her own people without bothering others is 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.
History. Read more about it.
.O C'mon ... you simply cannot force people to like each other
There is a difference between tolerate and like.
O C'mon ... you simply cannot force people to like each other. I mean if they don't want to mix with others so be it. Different in culture, value, belief etc and if they keep to themselves by not bothering others then I see no wrong.
No you can't force people to like each other, they tend to have all sorts of personalities and there are personality types that I don't like (stupid being one). Turning your nose up at them because of colour is simply racism and trying to defend it is abhorrent. Afterall we've all been victims of racism at some point in our lives.
you and I can afford to take the hit. Many can't.
If I may say so that's Remainer Project Fear speaking. We will be better off outside the EU. The EU has delivered massive pain to much of Southern Europe and people are starting to see it now.
The EU hasn't, the € has
Very important distcintion to make.
kelvin - Member
Even a dictatorship that confines his/her own people without bothering others is 100 times better. They keep to themselves you see and not imposing.
History. Read more about it.
N.Korea and S.Korea are practically the same people so they can do as they wish to each other. Problem is Japan, an outsider, enslaved them historically and they also tried to kick his/her larger neighbour China thinking about their own superiority ... Silly goose that Japan is ... 😆 As for dictators they can dictate to their own people but if they want to start a war so be it. But if they keep to themselves they can do as they wish. 🙂
but if they want to start a war so be it.
Oh. Great. Thanks.
Jamba - that's not fear it's fact (in my case and I think yours). Now forecasting financial collapse or streams of immigrants - that would be project fear. But I didn't.
Strange chewkw that much as you seem to hate the EU and admire North Korea it is the EU you chose to live in.
Unless you don't believe half what you say of course.