[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

aracer - I havent avoided the point, you have avoided my response. I will give you some time to page back and find it.

GrahamS - Member
Nissan sales figures from your own post three months ago chewkw:

Top 10 Nissan Markets

Seems like they already do pretty well in China! And surprisingly well in France too.

That all depends on the next three months when things change again ... 😆

Well you've correctly predicted Trump and Brexit so what's your prediction for those next three months Mystic Chewkw?

If Nissan leave the UK do you think those Chinese and Japanese sales will drop away?

How about the Mexican, Russian, German, French, Canadian sales?

Seems unlikely to me but I've given up trying to predict this world for now.

I can't even predict the past now

GrahamS - Member
Well you've correctly predicted Trump and Brexit so what's your prediction for those next three months Mystic Chewkw?

If Nissan leave the UK do you think those Chinese and Japanese sales will drop away?

How about the Mexican, Russian, German, French, Canadian sales?

Seems unlikely to me but I've given up trying to predict this world for now.

DrJ the Tories aren't going to allow the NHs to be privatised or the price of medicnes to go up, both would give them a massive electoral headache and they are not daft

Guardian piece is a "statement of the bleeding obvious". Of course all companies review their position on a regular basis, that's managements job. Nissan won't leave, that's very expensive and disruptive. They may decide to scale back future investment if they don't like Brexit terms. That's fair enough but UK is a very valuable car market. We like our shiny new cars.

I see no reason we would not do a trade deal with Japan to include cars, maybe some tech transfer / jv's too.

igm I was talking about petrol hybrid rather than outright electric, personally I am still sceptical on those. Go to hybrid first. Japanese far ahead in this area imo vs Germans for example. Europe has focused on diesel.

Cougar TTIP was the trade deal the EU have been buggaring around with for 8 (?) years spending many many millions "negotiating". Quite unpopular with various (lefty) groups throughout Europe inc UK. Typical campaign hysteria here that is was going to "privatise the NHS" etc. Anyway it was so pro-US that Trump has said he is going to kill it stone dead. I believe various teams in US and EU have been disbanded,

Nissan won't leave, that's very expensive and disruptive. They may decide to scale back future investment if they don't like Brexit terms. That's fair enough but UK is a very valuable car market. We like our shiny new cars.

A proposed (and now dead) Trade Deal between the US and the EU that Cameron and Osborne were really keen to sign us up to, but the rest of the EU had other ideas.

And also Del - thank you.

Jamba > you've still not answered my question. Are you wilfully ignoring it?

[quote=teamhurtmore ]aracer - I havent avoided the point, you have avoided my response. I will give you some time to page back and find it.

Ah, would you care to repeat it then? I've not read every single page of this thread (though I thought I'd read the pages immediately after each time I've posted) and I'm not starting now.

Jamba > you've still not answered my question. Are you wilfully ignoring it?

No, I asked above who had asked me a question as I couldn't find one. I only ignore the trolls questions/posts. Been back to page 602 and didn't spot a question you where asking me. Ask what you want.

I've oft thought much the same. Always comes across as a good guy, one of the people on here I'd like to meet, and is knowledgeable in some areas (Apple stuff springs to mind) - but it's getting to a point where almost every "factual" post is a guide for what not to do. It's like STW's equivalent of a promoted post on Facebook.

Ooohh, sucker punch 🙂 I generally have an opinion, as I put as my signature on another forum "often wrong, seldom in doubt". That being said most things seem to have gone pretty much the way I have suggested/speculated over the 4 years I have been here. Taking immigration seriously as an issue is probably the most topical, derided here when I suggested that 3 years ago. Now look where we are. Anyway without a hint of modesty and with a large dollop of pomposity I am quite knowledgeable in a few areas.

Sometime before the next GE Europe/eurozone is going to have a major major meltdown. Discussions about being in the EU / closer to Europe are going to look quite different to many Remainers (IMO of course).

[url=

n't we had enough of this expert?[/url]

Alright Jamby, here's a question for you: how do you square the difference between the Professor of European Law's views in the link I posted above with your own views, derived from perhaps much more limited experience?

In particular I'm keen to see how you resolve the issues he raises about the realism of May's demands, and the strength of her threat vs the damage a deregulated über-neoliberal tax haven approach would have on the British economy and society. I'm also keen to hear how we can enter into trade deals while retaining 100% of our sovereignty.

Now stop trolling, and start debating intelligently. Perhaps then you won't be judged quite so harshly.

Jamba - EVs. I'm naturally skeptical too but the evidence is against us. They are already good enough for the vast majority of users and the rest of us will be catered for shortly. As a cyclist I'm not keen on the silent aspect though.

Codyb. Posted this on another thread but the analogy is brilliant - even if unintentional.

codybrennan - Member
This is a beaut-

Myself and the neighbours have got a communal patch of land that we commonly look after, and we'd had a fairly well-observed but friendly set of rules that we all adhered to. Nothing onerous- it worked on a kind of barter system really- I'd mow the big lawn one week, the one we all looked out on, in return Paolo across the way would take all the bins in. It worked really well, and things got even better when one of the neighbours suggested at a meeting that we build a communal vegetable patch in the middle, barter the contributions, maybe even sell the rest on.

The produce from it was awesome; some of my neighbours are quite cosmopolitan and had contributed all kinds of things. The best thing about it though was everyone kicked in- we had all kinds of stuff growing there, and as long as you were contributing, you could take from it. We'd even got a little system going where some of the less-well off neighbours could take a wee bit more- they'll turn the corner at some point and we'll all get the benefit then. Somehow, after we got the rules up and running, everyone pitched in.

Well, you can guess what happened next. One of the neighbours- we'll not mention his real name, but John will do- fell on hard times. It was his own fault; he'd got mixed up in some shady business deals, didn't really read the T&Cs, lost a packet.

Suddenly, he's wanting to know why he's having to kick in all this effort when he's getting nothing back. Suddenly, its all: what am I getting from this, you guys are ripping me off, and I didn't agree to any of this bartering vegetable stuff, it started out as grasscutting! Well, what could we do? If he really wanted to stop pitching in, then we couldn't really give him free veg, could we? That was the nature of the deal.

So of course he's doing his own thing now, buying from the greengrocer in the town, who knows that he can't get any from us and makes him pay full market rate.

All for the sake of him maybe just realising that he had a good deal, and got something well worth having out of it. The berk.

Quite unpopular with various (lefty) groups throughout Europe inc UK. Typical campaign hysteria here that is was going to "privatise the NHS" etc. Anyway it was so pro-US that Trump has said he is going to kill it stone dead. I believe various teams in US and EU have been disbanded,

How many times can you contradict yourself in 3 sentences?

I think most peoples concerns about TTIP focused on the Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS) parts which would have let multinational companies seek damages when governments introduced polices that caused them to lose profits.

And it was dead long before Trump came to power. He's just trying to put a positive (for him) spin and claim the credit. Sad!

I think most peoples concerns about TTIP focused on the Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS) parts which would have let multinational companies seek damages when governments introduced polices that caused them to lose profits.

These terms exist in a lot of FTAs to one extent or another. Essentially it's a surrendering of our sovereignty to foreign boardrooms, Thayer than to a parliament we are well represented at.

Essentially it's a surrendering of our sovereignty to foreign boardrooms,

That happened a long time ago.

https://m.facebook.com/events/1812530828971846/
March 25. Let your voice be heard.

Downer said an Australia-UK agreement could be reached very quickly after Brexit, given that Canberra struck a deal with the US in eight months under George W Bush’s presidency.

He said a similar timeframe could be realistic [b]if Britain did not want to protect certain industries[/b], and that exploratory discussions had already taken place at many levels.

I wonder what that means?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/21/australia-to-seek-uk-migration-deal-in-brexit-trade-talks

No, I asked above who had asked me a question as I couldn't find one. I only ignore the trolls questions/posts. Been back to page 602 and didn't spot a question you where asking me. Ask what you want.

It's on the previous page just a little way above where I asked whether you were ignoring it, and it was originally on a post a ways back which you've definitely read because you replied to half of it.

Once more with feeling: Given how it directly affects her and potentially may mean she loses the right to live here, what's your wife's view on Brexit? Is she for or against?

[I]I wonder what that means?[/I]

Not difficult, if the deal suits us we'll sign it.

Cougar, please leave Jamba's wife out of this.

Questions asked of him where he has made assertions that don't stand up to cursory scrutiny, is fair. Chasing up those questions, while often futile, is also fair.

If he considers your question too personal to answer, then I'd consider it polite to leave it alone. I think others would to.

Interesting that we are aiming for US/Australian trade deals post Brexit? So let's have a think what do those two country's have an excess of that they may wish to off load in the UK?
1. Meat lots of meat
2. Cereals
3. Processed foods in general
4. Raw materials
So when Donald gets his UK trade deal and US agriculture and food processors dump very cheap tariff free food on the UK market what happens to UK agriculture?
Explained this to a local sheep farmer in the pub (he voted out to get rid of red tape) who currently sells most of his Lamb to France, let's just say the light came on.
Subsidies gone
Tariffs through the roof for his current market and no change in red tape
And the Yanks/Aussies shifting stock as fast as they can.
He reads the Daily Mail...

Can't wait for all that wonderful American food once we have a free trade deal running our farmers out of business

[img] [/img]

Explained this to a local sheep farmer in the pub (he voted out to get rid of red tape) who currently sells most of his Lamb to France, let's just say the light came on.
Subsidies gone
Tariffs through the roof for his current market and no change in red tape
And the Yanks/Aussies shifting stock as fast as they can.
He reads the Daily Mail...

Well, he knows who he can blame - can't say I'll be shedding a tear.

And the Aussies are asking for a relaxation of immigration controls....

Also interesting that it is being reported that under 35s rate freedom of movement higher than controlling immigration.
Jamba - as I recall you're not under 35, you may struggle to understand this. 😉

(Nor am I of course - but I'm very immature so mentally still 18 😉 )

- UK farmers (as opposed to large rural land owners)
- UK fisherman (as opposed to large fleet owners)
- small UK manufacturers (as opposed to large multinational manufacturers)

I think that sums up the big losers.

Those outside England probably hit hardest in all these areas (if you look at export figures).

Cougar, please leave Jamba's wife out of this.

Questions asked of him where he has made assertions that don't stand up to cursory scrutiny, is fair. Chasing up those questions, while often futile, is also fair.

If he considers your question too personal to answer, then I'd consider it polite to leave it alone. I think others would to.

Fair point. Though if that's the case, he only had to say so.

DrJ has just expressed a sentiment that I also feel basically **** em and there is a lot of people I know feel like this and when Mrs May talks about unity (much like the Donald) she is simply not going to get it from a significant part of the population. Farming has huge debt problems most small to medium sized farms are into the banks for serious overdrafts and they continue to fight each other to buy grassland at £10k an acre to say some are highly leveraged is literally the understatement of the year. Tarrifs against their existing market and cheap US food and a major change in subsidies is likley to reduce the value of agricultural land significantly (possibly back to £1500 an acre) means many will simply become bankrupt. I think the NFU saw this possibility but few farmers believed them.

Indeed the NFU advised vote remain.
What I would hope for once we have "regained control" is that the rigourous welfare requirements placed on our farmers will apply to all imports. If not then they certainly are being hung out to dry.

My sector. The fall in value of agricultural land would be a disaster. In my part of the world - Mid and South Wales - there is a massive disparity between land prices and the living that can be made from the land. Most bank borrowing is secured on land at its artificially high value - value drops and the bank are then left exposed security wise and loans are called in or overdraft facilities converted to loans at a higher rate of interest. Factor into this there are a lot of nervous valuers out there who I would have said have over valued land and will be facing the heat from the banks because of this. I would lay a substantial amount of blame with valuers for overvaluing and setting benchmarks against sales to special interest buyers.

I went to bid on a parcel of quite unremarkable land just outside Brecon for a client recently and I had instruction to bid above what the client thought it was worth but we were all outdone by an offshore millionaire buying land for the tax relief at over £14,400.00 per acre. Agents say that's the benchmark ,which is crap, which then creates all the false expectation amongst other other land owners and banks - good for agents commission.

Never mind - 2 chickens for a fiver.

You will get 3 American chickens for a fiver....

Not after the devaluation of the £ - only 2 these days

Oh you cynic THM.

In our glorious future it will be 4 chickens and a bar of Hershey's. Two bars if you're unlucky.

Winner winner we all get cheap chicken dinner....

Yeah but farmers won't need to put up those fascist billboards any more so that cancels it all out.

Once more with feeling: Given how it directly affects her and potentially may mean she loses the right to live here, what's your wife's view on Brexit? Is she for or against?

Cougar 100% for Brexit, she came campaigning with me on the street stall and delivered the leaflets. She was very effective on the stall tell many people how it was wrong to believe the French where all for the EU. There are many against including a decent portion of her family. Like me she believes Brexit will make zero difference in practice as to where we can live and work. As I said before my wife would be happy to hear she (we) couldn't live [b]permanently[/b] in the UK as she doesn't really like it.

Zokes people need a pantomine villan, you included. Zero intention of replying to any question you may have now or in the future unless it suits me to make a point. None.

@igm agreed the silence of EVs is a problem, have experiences that dirst handbin London as a cyclist and pedestrian. I think they should have to make a noise ! Pollution is a major issue, profusion of diesel has been a disaster.

Like me she believes Brexit will make zero difference in practice as to where we can live and work. As I said before my wife would be happy to hear she (we) couldn't live permanently in the UK as she doesn't really like it.

You are in a luxury position of being able to afford to pay for the additional health insurance etc. that this will entail. I assume you made this clear to the people who visited your stall?

a bar of Hershey's

Hershey's is truly foul. How could you take something as nice as chocolate and turn it into something so horrible?

nicely summed up

So Theresa May, the British prime minister who was not elected to her post, wants to create something called “Global Britain.” She thought about alternative branding — “Parochial Britain” — but was advised it was unsexy.

She wants to achieve this by taking Britain out of the European Union, out of a single market of a half-billion people and into a new “embrace” of the world — excluding, of course, Spaniards, the French, Germans, Italians, Swedes and their ilk.

The prime minister is so keen on the idea that she used the word “global” 17 times in her speech on Tuesday setting out her Brexit plans.

Madam, thou doth protest too much.

The Onion’s headline was: “May to European Union: Drop Dead. May to World: We Love You.” Actually, that was not in The Onion but should have been.

I wonder if May, who studied geography at Oxford University, has ever taken a stroll round London, that inward-looking city where you never hear a foreign tongue. After 43 years in what is now called the European Union, the British capital has become insufferably insular. Its cuisine lacks variety. Its financial institutions have no international heft. Its skyline speaks of stunted ambition. Its culture is provincial, its theater hidebound and its worldview small-minded.

No wonder May felt she had to take London global.

And Britain as a whole! For 43 years the country has been a member of an introverted, stifling little entity called the European Union that has just concluded a free trade deal with Canada, has dozens of multilateral and bilateral trade agreements, boasts the United States as its top trading partner, takes some 44 percent of British exports, and accounts for 22 percent of world economic output.

How could Britain possibly be global within this straitjacket?

No, it had to get out of Europe to go global (and make sure its citizens could no longer work in Europe)! The June 23 referendum, May insisted, was “the moment we chose to build a truly global Britain.”

I know this is a political moment when black equals white, no means yes, two plus two equals five, and post-truth is the phrase du jour. Still, this was a Trump-size whopper from May. She had obviously been steeped in Orwell before her oration.

The vote for Brexit was in fact the moment Britain turned its back on the world, succumbing to pettiness, anti-immigrant bigotry, lying politicians, self-delusion and vapid promises of restored glory.

“Global Britain” is a specious branding effort designed to mask an expensive mistake, opposed by 48 percent of voters.

Now, a memory stirs. May at the Conservative Party Conference last October saying this: “But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.”

So much for May and her global baloney: She doesn’t like people who move from country to country, who may feel allegiance to more than one, and who have concluded that the most useful form of citizenship these days is one dedicated not only to the well-being of a Berkshire parish, say, but to the planet.

Global Britain without global citizens, please!

There was at least one honest sentence in her speech: “Brexit must mean control of the number of people who come to Britain from Europe.” That, you see, is what it was all about: too many Poles and Romanians doing jobs nobody else wants.

May rambled. She does not want the single market (because it entails free movement of E.U. citizens). But, oh, maybe she wants bits of it. Like for the export of cars or freedom to provide financial services across borders. May has already had to make promises to Nissan to stop the Japanese automaker from getting out of Sunderland. She’s terrified financial institutions will quit the City en masse.

Her comeuppance awaits in the form of Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who knows global baloney when she sees it. You don’t have your cake and eat it in negotiations with Merkel.

I write as President-elect Donald Trump is about to become President Trump. Nobody really has any idea of what will happen after that. President Vladimir Putin says that Trump would never run after Russian “girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world.”

Good to know that at least.

May seems to see Trump as her global ace in the hole, her counterweight to the European Union. She has been making nice to him. Her government has voiced extraordinary public criticism of Secretary of State John Kerry’s speech on Israel-Palestine, and largely shunned a Middle East conference in Paris the Trump team opposed. In her speech, May pointedly remarked that Britain was not “at the back of the queue” for a trade deal with the United States, as President Obama warned, but at the front in the hour of Trump.

Global Britain! Make America Great Again! Russia for Russians! As Orwell is said to have observed, “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/opinion/theresa-mays-global-britain-is-baloney.html

DrJ - if only there'd been a bowl of EU (say Belgian) chocolate and a bowl of glorious Brexit future (Hershey's) chocolate and we'd asked people to choose.
Even Jamba would have gone for the EU I think.

I wonder if May, who studied geography at Oxford University, has ever taken a stroll round London, that inward-looking city where you never hear a foreign tongue. After 43 years in what is now called the European Union, the British capital has become insufferably insular. Its cuisine lacks variety. Its financial institutions have no international heft. Its skyline speaks of stunted ambition. Its culture is provincial, its theater hidebound and its worldview small-minded.

What a crock

What a crock

Hershey's is truly foul. How could you take something as nice as chocolate and turn it into something so horrible?

As I said before my wife would be happy to hear she (we) couldn't live permanently in the UK as she doesn't really like it.

Can't say I blame her. It is now clearer than ever that the country is half full of gullible racists...

Like me she believes Brexit will make zero difference in practice as to where we can live and work.

What makes you say that? May has said otherwise.

What makes you say that? May has said otherwise.

Otherwise is just for the poor folks. The well off will always find a way. Which is what makes it so dishonest to trick those are the bottom of the pile to vote for something that will only hurt them.

what a crock

I'd assumed that this description of London was some vision of what it will become, or some other literary device too sophisticated for a simple soul. But as you say, it's just a crock.

DO some forumites really need a lesson in irony?
I am not sure how much more obvious they could have made the point that Britain was outward looking etc and i cannot believe so many have missed the sarcasm
Explains why so many forum messages end up with frisson of folk cannot see sarcasm in that piece. 😯

Zokes people need a pantomine villan, you included.

No one has ever used this phrase but you everyone just challenges you on the inaccurate facts and falsehoods you post with a bit of personal when you ignore the point like this as they think its deliberate.

Zero intention of replying to any question you may have now or in the future unless it suits me to make a point. None.

my wife would be happy to hear she (we) couldn't live permanently in the UK as she doesn't really like it.

Right, fair enough. That's what I was getting at, I couldn't understand why she would be in favour of something that potentially could compromise where she lived. If she doesn't really want to be here, that explains it. Thank you.

And the Aussies are asking for a relaxation of immigration controls

suits me if they are going to relax theirs....i will **** off to oz and set up there

Jambas, mon amis, avez-vous remarqué l'efficacité du logiciel de blocage* allégué par le petit homme qui vit sous le pont? Il ne se repose jamais, n'est-ce pas? 😉

whilst i have been catching upon the whole thing this weekend it dawned on me,may has she double bluffed everyone , she came out swinging with her hard brexit and did a very good job of making people think she was in it to win it but on tuesday at 9.30 the beaks will be announcing wether it needs to go for a vote

will she actually trigger it or will she turn round and go oh well then beaten by the vote its all off , forget it you knew i was pitching for a hard exit....im really really gutted honestly

My french is passable thanks for asking- shall I test your Welsh or Arabic skills?

the irony of you who pretend to ignore me asking about me blocking him is amusing why dont you just ignore me then 😉

as for calling me a troll that is a barefaced and shameful lie with no basis in truth...except for post truth.

FWIW the software stopped working last week - it was on another thread as well btw

I am sure you care deeply about this though

its really is pathetic to engage by doing this either have a go at me directly or ignore me but to do childish passive aggressive stuff is really really sad.

NY Times

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/opinion/theresa-mays-global-britain-is-baloney.html?referer

I wonder if May, who studied geography at Oxford University, has ever taken a stroll round London, that inward-looking city where you never hear a foreign tongue. After 43 years in what is now called the European Union, the British capital has become insufferably insular. Its cuisine lacks variety. Its financial institutions have no international heft. Its skyline speaks of stunted ambition. Its culture is provincial, its theater hidebound and its worldview small-minded.
What a crock

THM, that was sarcasm
hence this bit

I know this is a political moment when black equals white, no means yes, two plus two equals five, and post-truth is the phrase du jour. Still, this was a Trump-size whopper

Still amazed that had to be pointed out to him

Explains rather a lot though if he never detects sarcasm and i cannot see how it can be spread any thicker than that piece...you must have spectacularly missed the tone of so many posts on here.

😳 missed the sarcasm - are you sure? I thought sarcasm was peculiarly British!

Was skim reading such a long post but stopped at the para in question - my bad as they say

Sarcasm. Pointing out that London IS global already.

[i] [ edit: oops, missed a whole page of replies pointing this out! ][/i]

Cougar et al - I mentioned my wife so I think it's reasonable to ask a follow up question, if I though that it was personal I would say so. Most of her family are mostly concerned about freedom of movement, Shengen etc. I think it's consistent with UK that the older they are the bigger an issue they see this. Remember Paris has had hundreds if nit thousands of asylum seekers sleeping rough in the city for many months, asylum seekrs turned diwn in Germany are just turing up here. Many of her family voted against the Maastrict Treaty in a Referendum - result was 51/49. I think it's also true that most of them think it's impossible to leave the EU/euro as they are "stuck / in too deep / would be too costly to recreate a proper Bank of France" etc

Stop. Be nice to THM.

When a man admits a mistake that deserves respect.
We all make them, we don't all admit them.

Now, Jamba...

All my French family are pro Eu, against the Front National and think that Brexit is crazy.

Jamba - I think your post sums it up for me. The old folk are worried about losing the countries of the past and are seeking to re-establish the half forgotten borders and barriers of their youth, while the young are looking forward to the challenges, opportunities and downright excitement of living in a bigger world amongst a more diverse community.
That's why you voted one way and your children another.
I'm a little (not much) younger than you and I see both sides - but I'm also the kind of person who loves change and challenge. Hence I voted not to put the barriers up.

The old can **** off and die, frankly. This mess will outlive them by many years, they won't be the ones picking up the pieces.

How old is old? My mates who are mostly 60+ as am I are all remainers.

Jambas, mon amis,

Your French is as bad as jamba's 🙂

[quote=slowoldman ]How old is old? My mates who are mostly 60+ as am I are all remainers.

we all have mates who mostly share our attitudes but the research showed the older you were the more likely you were to vote leave

The older the voters, the more likely they were to have voted to leave the EU. Nearly three quarters (73%) of 18 to 24 year-olds voted to remain, falling to under two thirds (62%) among 25-34s. A majority of those aged over 45 voted to leave, rising to 60% of those aged 65 or over

S.O.M. - and my 72 year old mother is staunchly remain (and no in the other referendum).

I speak in generalities (along the lines of the rough 2/3:1/3 split the polls suggest) when I talk of the old voting for barriers and boundaries; there are decent folk of all ages.

whilst i have been catching upon the whole thing this weekend it dawned on me,may has she double bluffed everyone , she came out swinging with her hard brexit and did a very good job of making people think she was in it to win it but on tuesday at 9.30 the beaks will be announcing wether it needs to go for a vote

will she actually trigger it or will she turn round and go oh well then beaten by the vote its all off , forget it you knew i was pitching for a hard exit....im really really gutted honestly

I think she's playing a bluff, yes. The more extreme her position, the more likely people will rise up and protest - and the more people there will be doing it... If enough people are feeling poorer by the time the deal gets finalised and the deal is lousy enough I think a significant % of people who voted out will find they've changed their minds.

Worth looking at this story from BBC. To a degree I'm sure they're cherry-picking her quotes but less than a year ago she understood all the downsides to leaving and was speaking out against them. I believe that she's no history of total reversal of her views within 8 months...

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38653681 ]BBC story comparing Theresa May's quotes from April 2016 to now[/url]

Your French is as bad as jamba's

😳 its a long time since A level French 😳

[blows kiss ar igm]

Probably worth listening to this - Radio 4. I caught the last third of it...

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0890f7j ]How Marx Made The Right[/url]

Makes the point that Neoliberalism started to fall apart once Communism failed as we had nothing to positively compare it to - hence even though it's had many benefits, a significant proportion of the Western electorate no longer support it.

It also makes the point that a homeowning democracy was supposed to be one of the key benefits of neoliberalism to make sure the masses got a share of the wealth - and in that respect neoliberalism has certainly failed in the UK at least... Mind you, it'd be interesting to sit down with those that know and trace back the sources of money that seemed to pour into London from 2012 onwards and see how much came from Russia - making housing unaffordable in the UK is a great way to get us to reject our governing class...

In other news, I find myself entertaining guests of the Department for International Trade.

Who was it said us remainers we're going to be expected to bail the leavers out when it actually came to doing anything constructive?

Me

but but but they need us more than we nee.. oh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38707997

The distinguished audience members were too polite to heckle. But the eye rolling, frowns and audible tutting made it quite clear how the Brexiteers' message was going down with German business leaders.
Owen Paterson, a former minister and Conservative MP, and John Longworth, co-chair of Leave Means Leave, came to Berlin on Saturday with a clear mission - to persuade German business leaders to lobby Chancellor Angela Merkel to give Britain a good trade deal.
They should have been on safe territory.
The two men are confident, witty speakers with impressive business and free-trade credentials.
Mr Longworth is a former head of the British Chamber of Commerce. Mr Paterson's years spent trading in Germany meant he could open his address with a few remarks in German - which drew an appreciative round of applause - and a well-judged joke about multilingual trade.
But it turned out they had entered the lion's den.

The laughter from the audience quickly turned to s****s as they heard the UK described as "a beacon of open, free trade around the world".
Westminster's decision to leave the world's largest free trade area does not look like that to Germany.
When Europe was blamed for spending cuts and a lack of British health care provision, there were audible mutters of irritation from the audience.
The occasional light-hearted attempts at EU-bashing - usually guaranteed to get a cheap laugh with some British audiences - was met with stony silence.

when will the penny drop with the brexies?

Zokes people need a pantomine villan, you included. Zero intention of replying to any question you may have now or in the future unless it suits me to make a point. None.

Not that surprising really. It was quite apparent quite some time ago that any question in danger of proving just how misguided you are was being ignored. Unfortunate nonetheless, as this admission clearly shows you lack the capacity to hold your argument up to scrutiny.

suits me if they are going to relax theirs....i will **** off to oz and set up there

I did wonder this 🙂

Haven't enough polls been shown to be completely inaccurate for you people to stop listening to them?

Oh I forget, if it fits your bias then anything goes.. complaining about people blaming others while blaming others.

kimbers - Member
but but but they need us more than we nee.. oh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38707997

Thanks for that link - I found this paragraph particularly illuminating:

Remarkably united

When the audience was asked how many of them welcomed Brexit, only one hand went up - and it turned out that belonged to a businessman who wanted more EU reform and was fed up with Britain slowing things down.

"Go home Britain, you're drunk!" - it's going to be the mother of all hangovers.

As I said before my wife would be happy to hear she (we) couldn't live permanently in the UK as she doesn't really like it.

She joined you in campaigning for us to leave the EU, and doesn't want to live here anyway?
I suppose there is some logic to that.
Like Farage looking to sit out the transition chaos in Germany or USA.
Pity all us fools left behind, working to get us through the unnecessary, unwanted, reorganisations and renegotiations.