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Go Andrea 8)Further confirmation we will be leaving THE single market as EU farming regulations will not apply. We'll be free to ban pork from Poland and the other 5 nations currently in breach of EU animal husbandry rules.
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/548#post-8185222 ]I boycotting British meat for the same reasons Jamba, you've got an apallingly bad memory.[/url]
Keeping up enough standards for you?
What an absolute load of complete and utter twaddle. The sad fact is that there are some saddos that seem to hang on her every word.
Yes, there probably is a single EU law that I don't agree with. Will she support me on the many Tory laws that I disagree with? Or throw that out as a silly reason?
Screw the education system up and feed the thickshits with shit, they'll lap it up.
can we expect a note from N10 tomorrow telling us that Andrea views are not the government ? 😆
So, the new ambassador is Sir Tim Barrow. I am not familiar with civil service hierachy, but he seems to be more senior than Sir Ivan Rogers, reflecting the greater importance now of this role.
Given his background in the FCO, including Private Secretary to the Foreign Secretary, he has probably been much closer to the heart of government than Rogers, and will have routinely seen and advised the Foreign Secretary on intelligence provided by MI6 and GCHQ. GCHQ has probably been told that finding out the negotiating positions and strengths/weaknesses of the other EU nations is a top priority, and that intelligence would need to be disclosed to whomever is in the role of ambassador and their new deputy. Sir Tim Barrow fits the profile of someone who would be trusted to receive that sort of intelligence.
There is no point in the UK Government wasting a lot of time and effort deciding precisely what form of Brexit it wants, only for it to become clear later that the rest of the EU would not agree to what we want. There are a whole range of different possibilities with different levels of access to the EU single market and with different pros and cons. It will be far easier to determine what the best possible deal is of those potentially available to the UK, if the UK already knows what the other nations' various red lines and negotiating positions are.
Go AndreaFurther confirmation we will be leaving THE single market as EU farming regulations will not apply.
The idea that a gaffe prone junior Minister like Leadsom knows what the UK negotiating position will be is laughable.
Takes a special kind of stupid to present farmers losing the billboards as a positive thing...no farmer had to erect a billboard if they didn't apply for the money (that will no longer be available)...
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 3 crop rule was introduced as part of the CAP changes in 2013, which would mean that we (by which I mean, Owen Paterson, Conservative Minister for Agriculture) voted in favour of it- it was passed unanimously. TAKE BACK CONTROL AND STOP THINGS WE VOTED FOR!1!!
The billboard comment is almost as stupid, considering that the farmers with the billboards are receiving EU money. Hurrah for not having that billboard anymore, eh, that means we... no, wait a minute. Losing funding and taking down the billboards is a consequence, not a victory. It's like celebrating no longer having to file your payslips, after losing your job.
But no, don't tell me, farmers will get even more money, out of the £350m.
Takes a special kind of stupid to present farmers losing the billboards as a positive thing...no farmer had to erect a billboard if they didn't apply for the money (that will no longer be available)...
Any money received was for something else, but don't ask me what. #Fact #100%True #NotALieNeverNeverNever
The whole debacle would make a great Python or Mr Bean movie. Sadly it's real and happening, so not funny anymore.
he has probably been much closer to the heart of government than Rogers
Rogers was the inside man for Chancellors and PMs, wasn't he?
Quoting loathsome now !
Must be getting desperate
I wonder if she lists her exhuastive knowledge of EU farming and trade legislation on her CV 😉
When you are having to rely on the ramblings of someone widely regarded as the stupidest person in the cabinet for insights into what kind of plan there is for is for Brexit you know you are in trouble
The idea that a [s]gaffe prone junior[/s] Minister like Leadsom knows what the UK negotiating position will be is laughable.
All the Cabinet have been saying the same thing, you just have to follow the very simple steps from taking back control of our borders and the requirement to be free to negotiate our own trade deals that we will be leaving THE single market and the Customs Union. Everyone in the cabinet talks of "access to". That's very different than "membership of". Our negotiating position simple is we are leaving both and offer tariff free access to our markets in return for tariff free access to theirs, budget payment = zero, no freedom of movement
But we are going to make eleventy billion pounds from tariffs, so why would we want tariff free access?
you must have different news channel in Paris .
Boris said freedom of movement was a possibility .
Davis said we would have to pay to access the single market .
And TM always says she will get the best deal for the Uk , whatever that means .
Be prepared to be disappointed .
follow the very simple steps from taking back control of our borders and the requirement to be free to negotiate our own trade deals that we will be leaving THE single market and the Customs Union.
So what do all the businesses do that have built their business on being IN the single market?
They need to make arrangements BEFORE the plug is pulled, surely?
Presumably we won't be sending any agricultural produce to Europe then.
No need. Our farmers will be able to plant money trees, and keep geese that lay golden eggs.
And not a billboard in sight
Fox was talking about how we can still be part of the customs union just before Xmas
he has probably been much closer to the heart of government than RogersRogers was the inside man for Chancellors and PMs, wasn't he?
You're right, according to wikipedia he was Blair's PPS and was Kenneth Clarke's Private Secretary at the Treasury. As I said I am not familiar with the civil service hierachy, but Rogers has moved around a lot, including working for Citigroup and Barclays, whereas Barrow has always been in the FO and seems to be more in the traditional mould of an establishment mandarin/insider. Regardless of background, Theresa May will want someone in that position in whom she can have complete trust.
If the plan is anything like that you suggest Jamba, there would be no reason to not say, now, that leaving, completely, both the single market and the customs union, is what the government wants.
Truth is, the government must be sounding at all the options, not just your personal preferences.
Nipper, the minister in question said today that farming exports will be reduced when we leave the EU, so, yes, the farming community is being warmed up ready for falling exports.
Quoting loathsome now !Must be getting desperate
I wonder if she lists her exhuastive knowledge of EU farming and trade legislation on her CV
Back of a postage stamp would be more appropriate. It probably requires about as much space as Jamby's knowledge of foreign trade.
How long before the next senior civil servant quits in dismay at the handling of brexishambles?
I give it 2 weeks, before someone dares to suggest is going to be impossible to appease the fantasists and is attacked in the press into they bow out.
Maybe it will be as successful as that inquiry into child abuse Theresa set up while at the home office 😉
Farage trying to stick the boot in immediately
Good to see that the government have replaced a knighted career diplomat with.... a knighted career diplomat
Since OUR Govt has been incapable of implementing systems that manage the EU payments for the last few years, how are they going to ensure that the farmers continue to receive the same money?
FWIW Scotland spent upwards of £200m and England&Wales a bit more, for systems that haven't worked.
Woohooo ... drain the swamp!
Clearing out the deadwood remainder EU ambassador. 😆
probably requires about as much space as Jamby's knowledge of foreign trade.
And farming
Did we do this one
Even IF it were possible to negotiate a successful brexit, doesn't look like we are capable of doing it anyway.
Do Jam and Ninfan acknowledge that it is NOt a given that we have the skills to do this?
probably requires about as much space as Jamby's knowledge of foreign trade.
And farming
and the ambassador role
Even IF it were possible to negotiate a successful brexit, doesn't look like we are capable of doing it anyway.
It's simple though, UK asks for everything, once the room stops laughing the eu puts their proposal, we argue they start cutting things borris shouts prosseco BMW brie and gets excused then we take the deal.
Thm there is always choice, flat out into a negotiation you're badly prepared for is idiotic, the UK controls the timescale you have to weigh up uncertainty vs screw up.
There is the other option where TM puts a bill forward, loses the vote and calls a GE - don't think you can rule that out.
i would have thought the one thing we would all agree on is that the three brexiteer ministers never mind the cabinet are not speaking with one voiceAll the Cabinet have been saying the same thing
If the UK government decides it's in our interests
Hang on, when did the government deciding what's in our best interests come into it? I thought that was irrelevant because The People Have Spoken?
Brexit means Brexit remember. Worrying about what's best for us seems a bit eleventh hour now.
you just have to follow the very simple steps from taking back control of our borders
I covered this a couple of pages back and was roundly ignored. In what way do we not have control of our borders already?
(Still waiting for you to explain how you're adversely affected by eu legislation also, btw. Did you forget?)
FWIW Scotland spent upwards of £200m and England&Wales a bit more, for systems that haven't worked.
CAP is devolved in Wales and generally works ok here.
(Still waiting for you to explain how you're adversely affected by eu legislation also, btw. Did you forget?)
If the question is even slightly harder than "what's your name" he generally ignores it
A rare voice of reason...
[img] 
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Farmers are laughing
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/euro-exchange-rate-set-for-2016-basic-payment-scheme-payments
Brexit means more money!
and who would deny the grouse moors there on going subsidies....
May will make a speech confirming what everyone who's been paying attention knows full well.
The Prime Minister will outline her “vision for Britain outside of the EU” in a major speech later this month that will focus on the economy and immigration.
Yes sure she will, it will be full of spot on lines for the Mail, Express, Times and Telegraph. It will be scant on details and commitment it will probably contradict what the others have been claiming so far and upset more than it pleases.
Then comes the actual important part of Davies and his plan followed by a parliamentary vote.
After all of that it's really up to 27 other nations to tell the UK whats on offer.
May will make a speech confirming what everyone who's been paying attention knows full well.
Is this a change from "we'll see and hopefully it'll be better" to " I knew this was the plan all along"?
Or is James May about to say something profound about the Grand Tour?
May will make a speech confirming what everyone who's been paying attention knows full well.
The only absence of any attention I can see on the topic is Brexmorons attitude to some cold hard facts. Sadly for the most part that now seems to include our PM.
Give it another two weeks then see how EU will response with their swamp being drained ... yep they will be drained coz those EU bureaucrats are all low energy ... 😆
PM May should just relax, sit comfortably and continue with what she does best coz majority of the people will support her. No need to be rushed by those remainders coz they will get what coming their ways. It's all about timing. 😈
those remainders coz they will get what coming their ways.
Will we be branded? Shot?
Whats coming my way?
don't worry it's just the cryptic crossword bot going off again
cloudnine - Member
those remainders coz they will get what coming their ways.
Will we be branded? Shot?
Whats coming my way?
Shot? Who do you think we are?
Branded ... perhaps ... not sure what yet. 😆
No significant party to turn to because they (remainders) will even be kicked out from Labour party so most will end up in Green and Lib Dem ... 😆
don't worry it's just the cryptic crossword bot going off again
Nope. That implies there is at least some coherence and logic to his ramblings, which clearly there is not.
In case anyone is missing some definitions
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/04/news-a-z-of-brexit
Some of my highlights
Enemies of the people The new term for Britain’s independent judiciary.
Kitten heels What the papers write about when even they’re bored with Brexit.Leather trousers What the papers write about when they’re bored with kitten heels.
Running commentary. Euphemism for “flying ****”. As in, “How are talks going with the French? I could not give a running commentary.”
That, Mike, is truly excellent
those remainders coz they will get what coming their ways.
Public lynching by the Daily Mail?
those remainders coz they will get what coming their ways.
Pay rise in my case because the company are worried about losing me with Brexit.
As I say personally good, but not so much for the country.
May will make a speech confirming what everyone who's been paying attention knows full well.
I.e.
Long on sound bites..
Short on anything of actual ****ing substance..
those remainders coz they will get what coming their ways.
I think he meant an apology...
So May's speech what do you think the take away sound bite will be
Brexit Max?
Uber Brexit?
Firm Brexit?
Fruity Brexit?
Alt- Brexit?
Sexy Brexy?
Brexit for the People ?
101% Brexit?
The only way is Brexit?
Brexit of Champions ?
**** Brexit, I Quit ?
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/cereal-boxes-to-run-brexit-means-competition-20170105119690 ]I hear the best of the best are working on it as we speak[/url]
Whatever it is it will be met with a lot of smiles and cheers from the leavers, leaving the rest of us to point out she has said absolutely nothing.
[i]CAP is devolved in Wales and generally works ok here. [/I]
Aye...
https://www.david-davies.org.uk/news/warning-over-continued-delays-unpaid-farm-subsidies
I quite like the cereal box idea. I think we should also force the 52% to write an essay on what it should be.
Jambas - please can you explain what happens when we leave the single market in practical terms. How will trade under WTO proceed/work and why will this be good?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38510628 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38510628[/url]
Pointing to a similar model in use in Canada, where provincial governments can set region-specific requirements for immigrants, it said visas could be issued specifically for certain regions or certain sectors.
That'd be good, a system like they use in Canada, possibly Australia too. Perhaps we could get the British Council involved in the examination process, we could probably get the IDP and Cambridge involved in some way too. We could have test centres dotted around the country too.
Struggling to think of a catchy name for it though. 🙄
We need a like button, that A-Z is spot on, ta Mike.
Most EU migrants have good English. And other languages too.
My English is a lot better than my wife French.
Most EU migrants have good English. And other languages too.
I don't think any of this is based on evidence or anything rational.
Peoples perception seems to be all that matters.
Don't we have to join the WTO first?
Most EU migrants have better english than the native work-shy layabouts whose jobs they take. Can we kick them out as a swap?
How will trade under WTO proceed/work and why will this be good?
He has no idea.
You don't, do you Jam? Admit it.
Most EU migrants have better english than the native work-shy layabouts whose jobs they take. Can we kick them out as a swap?
We need to be quick about it while we can move them under freedom of movement.
Irony is, the majority of them would be people who voted leave.
Irony is, the majority of them would be people who voted leave.
Yes, that's partly the point. And to think I used to be sympathetic to those towards the bottom of the heap, be it impoverished pensioners or unemployed in depressed areas. That sympathy pretty much evaporated on June 23rd.
In WTO means out of customs union (estimated hit to our economy 22bn a year) = must have some sort of deal within 2 years or car & aero manufacturing are buggered by supply chains- hence why panicked Fox was talking about customs union access b4 xmas.
This is what sir Ivan was trying to explain, itll take many (10) years to hammer this out with 27 eu nations
Davies, wants it all done in 2 years, no transitional deal.
I dont think May wants it either because being stuck in the middle of a transition deal will be hard at the next election
Thats the problem with brexiters, just coz you wish for something really really hard, doesnt make it reality!
Most EU migrants have good English. And other languages too.
does depend, i know some with VERY good english, i know others who are functional and then some who do really struggle. It really depends on the job they are doing as too what is enough.
Yes, that's partly the point. And to think I used to be sympathetic to those towards the bottom of the heap, be it impoverished pensioners or unemployed in depressed areas. That sympathy pretty much evaporated on June 23rd.
agree, i could see the faults and accepted that taxes had to go up, now f*** 'em, i need every penny to cover my backside and ride out the on coming storm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38469141
If there's a good thing to come out of this, let's hope that it prompts the UK government to actually pull its finger out and start helping UK industries.
agree, i could see the faults and accepted that taxes had to go up, now f*** 'em, i need every penny to cover my backside and ride out the on coming storm
no i still blame austerity being used as an excuse to attack the welfare state and society,
as well as the press for blaming everything on immigrants
[I]Don't we have to join the WTO first? [/I]
Yep, plus there is the small matter of the WTO tariffs currently in place between WTO members and other countries (including the EU).
And this is quite an interesting post from earlier in the year, pre-vote and also a Leave group...
One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government would allow it.
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128
does depend, i know some with VERY good english, i know others who are functional and then some who do really struggle. It really depends on the job they are doing as too what is enough.
And that's the hypocrisy. How many pensioners in Malaga speak Spanish? How many expat oilmen in the Middle East speak Arabic? How many....? And I'm sure the response would be that they don't need to as they are well served by English speaking locals. The pensioners won't need to deal with local bureaucracy, oilmen work for multinational companies etc. Yet Ahmed working for his uncle, driving a van around town needs to demonstrate why we should or shouldn't be allowed to split the infinitive.
I say we can spplit the infinitive!
no i still blame austerity being used as an excuse to attack the welfare state and society,as well as the press for blaming everything on immigrants
Austerity was as you said the excuse, have to ask why those who will suffer from the scrapping of the NHS believed the crap in the Mail and voted against there own self interest?
Austerity was as you said the excuse, have to ask why those who will suffer from the scrapping of the NHS believed the crap in the Mail and voted against there own self interest?
Could be worse - you could be an unemployed worker in the US Midwest who voted for Trump and will now lose your medical insurance. Aah well.
[quote=molgrips ]Do Jam and Ninfan acknowledge that it is NOt a given that we have the skills to do this?
[quote=molgrips ]If there's a good thing to come out of this, let's hope that it prompts the UK government to actually pull its finger out and start helping UK industries.
You do say some funny things
As I have posted before by leaving the EU we are also leave the quad group of trading blocks who set the agenda for the WTO, the EU being one of the quad blocks. We also have to apply to re-join the WTO or at least reactivate our membership which means going begging to the other WTO members who will no doubt want their own pound of flesh.
Except Ahmed is most certainly not from the EU, and was probably born in the UK, so it doesn't apply to him.
However in the eyes of the Daily Mail readers and Leave voters it is the same thing.
I don't think any of this is based on evidence or anything rational.
Peoples perception seems to be all that matters.
Same basis as the referendum really.
[url= https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/01/marine-le-pen-u-turns-on-leaving-the-eu-and-ditching-the-euro/ ]https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/01/marine-le-pen-u-turns-on-leaving-the-eu-and-ditching-the-euro/[/url]
This just came up on my twitter feed,
HA HA HA........
And this is quite an interesting post from earlier in the year, pre-vote and also a Leave group...One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government would allow it.
Wow! Who's the author? If that was someone arguing for Leave, but able to write such an informed and nuanced piece, I'd love to read what they think about the government's "plan" as it evolves. I'm getting desperate for something properly considered and pro Brexit, and current… it would give me some "hope", for want of a better word.
from The Times, sounds like talking to many brexiters!
Liam Fox and David Davis’s alleged failure to understand briefings in the weeks after their appointment left Sir Ivan Rogers in despair, friends have said. Britain’s top diplomat in Brussels, who resigned on Tuesday, considered quitting on more than one occasion after the referendum.Sources said that he was frustrated by his attempts to induct the two Brexit cabinet ministers in the details of the single market and customs union ...
Sir Ivan is understood to believe that Mrs May understands the dangers this poses. However, he expressed frustration about the fact that Dr Fox, the international trade secretary, Mr Davis, the Brexit secretary, and Boris Johnson, foreign secretary, did not take the chance or consequences of a chaotic outcome seriously enough.
Panic buying of cars begins. 😛
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38516247 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38516247[/url]
We'll be ok in Yorkshire, them at the WTO will ave t come begging to get us in. Same with EU lot, how else are going to a bit of decent beer int rest of the world.