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As for complying with thousands of EU regs let the individual company deal with them.
Yay! Let's start a race to the bottom. We already know that consumers want the cheapest and marketeers are happy to supply that.
Cheap products using cheap components put together by kiddies in whichever country and we already know that insurance companies will tell you to shove your claims.
I think you're on to a winner chewkw, anarchy and screwed manufacturing base. Long termism isn't one of your strong points, is it?
I should add that the EU has been painfully slow at addressing this issue… and needs to work with those outside the EU for measures to have any chance of success. The EU is always slow… as it needs agreement between nations… which is bloody tricky to acheive.
because UK can do that by themselves. As for complying with thousands of EU regs let the individual company deal with them.
I'm on a terrible internet connection in a cabin in a forest, on 2012 Nexus 7, and it's about an hour to get to this point so I can't reply fully to Jamba's reply. I just wanted to say this in response to a comment further up the page though.
We.
Already.
Have.
Control.
Of.
Our.
Borders.
There are many points I disagree with Jamba but his distrust of Junker and accusations of corruption are justified.
I more than distrust him, I think he is a dangerous. And, yes, corrupt.
He isn't the EU though, and I look forward to the day he is gone.
He may well be and of course the EU has many problems - not least the folly of the € at its heart - BUT that does not mean that we are better off abandoning the great balancing act that we had i.e. membership of the good bits but avoiding most of the bad bits. What we will end up with HAS to be worse that what we have BY DEFINITION.
That is the ultimate folly of Brexshit
Yup, no doubt it'll be worse than our current compromise.
Still waiting for a Leave proponent to tell us how the border in Ireland will work, and I'm not the only one…
https://brianmlucey.wordpress.com/2016/12/31/a-2017-competition-for-brexiteers/
We.Already.
Have.
Control.
Of.
Our.
Borders.
A bit like we've got control of our prisons?
Sorry, different subject.
[quote=chewkw ]All non-issue because UK can do that by themselves.
They can but [s]will they?[/s] oh sod it, I'm engaging with chewy, no point in beating around the bush - a UK with a Tory government couldn't care less about all that stuff that's good for people, not if it's not making money for big companies. So the UK could do all those things by itself, but it simply won't, that is one of the big positives of the EU.
However:
[quote=Edukator ]There are many points I disagree with Jamba but his distrust of Junker and accusations of corruption are justified.
Getting international businesses to pay their tax where they make their profits is top of my list of necessary reforms. Edit: The EU needs fixing not scrapping.
+1 - I seriously considered the idea of voting leave because of the issues with the EU as it currently is. But the realistic result is that leaving wouldn't make things better (and as THM points out repeatedly, one of the biggest problems of the EU is one we're not a part of anyway). The difference seems to be that jamba thinks us leaving will improve these things 🙄
A bit like we've got control of our prisons?
I blame the staff, not even working full time these days.
The EU needs fixing not scrapping.
Edukator we have been trying to reform / steer the EU in a different direction for years, with no impact. Osbourne was still talking about reforming the EU a couple of weeks ago. It's naive, they are not interested. They would see reforming it to a lean and efficient trading / business focused organisation as a huge failure. They (the EU) want the ego trip and associated power of creating a super-state to rival the US.
Cougar we really do not, the grounds on which we can refuse entry are very specific (ie the person poses an immediate security threat), otherwise anyone can come, stay as long as they like and be entitied to exactly the same welfare as any citizen (after a trivial qualifying period), we can't even deport people after prison sentences and those that are kicked out for begging etc can just come back. It's all total madness. It couod have been fixed very easily but the EU's egomis so huge they have refused.
Edukator we have been trying to reform / steer the EU in a different direction for years, with no impact.
Thats hardly surprising considering the level of engagement we have had with the EU. How many people know who their MEP is never mind voted for one?
It's like the captain of a ship trying to manage the bridge and navigate from his cabin.
Edukator we have been trying to reform / steer the EU in a different direction for years, with no impact.
Seeing as the techniques used mostly involved electing people who didn't really bother to show up to anything
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-meps-attend-the-fewest-european-parliament-votes-of-any-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html
so not sure how active they have been in reforming the EU. Other notable ways seem to be shouting no a lot and storming off in a strop to the Daily Mail.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839 ]sod this for a game of soldiers, i'm outa 'ere![/url]
First day back at work after the break, reckon he's been thinking about that since Christmas Eve...
Says he'd desynced, just get him better internet and it'll be fine.
sod this for a game of soldiers, i'm outa 'ere!
Brexishambles lurches on
The Mail and other Brexies had been after his scalp because he had suggested negotiating a good trade deal with EU would take 10 yeras.
Aaron Banks and the VoteLeave team celebrating, it seems that brexies only like to have yesmen around, never mind that one of our very few actual experienced EU negotiators is gone....
Yup. TBH every time a competent realist leaves this process the nutters consider it a mighty victory so, hurrah!
The Mail and other Brexies had been after his scalp because he had suggested negotiating a good trade deal with EU would take 10 yeras.
I can't believe it'd ttrake 10 years, this thread has been running for less than a year and we've nearly cracked it. 😛
Indeed, celebrating I am. Don't let the door hit you in the **** on the way out. Brexit negotiations need people committed to the future not the past.
Career EU man decides his EU career is over 9 months ahead of scheduled departure. Not surprising in the slightest, he's jumped knowing full well he was about to be pushed given his "it will take 10 years bollix LEAK (not)". I have no doubt he wanted to continue his cushy lifestyle and job with only 10% tax and a stupendous pension for as long as possible, when he realised that was not going to be the case he's gonzo.
QED
[b]Job Offer[/b]
Ambassador to the European Union[b]
[/b]
Department, for Exiting the, European Union, Westminster
Placed on: 03-01-2017
Salary: £500,405 to £534,183, depending on experience and ability
Contract length: 2 years as of March 2017 and not a minute longer
Closing Date: as soon as blooming possible,
[b]Key skills[/b]:
Must be fluent in French, German, Spanish, Dutch, ...... or just be able to speak Slowly and Loudly in English
Detailed knowledge of trade and financial systems of 27 member nations of the EU
Detailed knowledge of existing EU border Tarrifs and EU regulations
Detailed knowledge and extensive network of contacts at the EU parliament and commission
Ability to ignore all of the above and just blame Junker/Tusk for eventual collapse of Brexishambles
Complete understanding of the term Brexit means Brexit
Ability to carry out damage limitation relating to comments made by Borris Johnson at very short notice
Appreciation of a fine pair of leather trousers
Please be aware that anything you say may at any point be leaked by pro-Brexit politicians, if it does not conform to their obviously correct and proper view of the world.
Please contact David Davies for informal enquiries
(whining Remoaners need not apply, Yes-men Only)
(Oh and before he asks and Nigel farage can f- off too)
I'll do it.
😆 kimbers.. Do you work in recruitment?
First day back at work after the break, reckon he's been thinking about that since Christmas Eve...
more likely he's seen Mays plan an thought "jesus ****ing wept are you shitting me!?"
more likely he's seen Mays plan
There's a plan? 😮
There's a plan?
Yes, we'll get the band back together!!
Cougar we really do not, the grounds on which we can refuse entry are very specific (ie the person poses an immediate security threat), otherwise anyone can come,
That's as may be. Point is, this isn't an EU mandate, it's what we've decided to do.
Doesn't the same apply to non-EU members?
(Am I wrong here?)
rats leaving a sinking ship?
Nice to see UKIP trying to find another job for Farage as well...
There's a plan?
HM Government
Brexit means Brexit by Moe, Larry and Curly
[u]page 1[/u]
Have cake and eat it.
Surely Phillip Hammond has to be the next to leave in despair at trying unsuccessfully to keep the Mail-fuelled, foaming-at-the-mouth loony tunes in check.
At this rate our negotiating team will consist of Liam Fox standing on a table in Brussels in just a pair of union jack boxer shorts, singing Jerusalem over and over and over
At this rate our negotiating team will consist of Liam Fox standing on a table in Brussels in just a pair of union jack boxer shorts, singing Jerusalem over and over and over
See, there IS a plan...
From the BBC.
"But former Conservative cabinet minister John Redwood said Sir Ivan had made a "very wise decision", saying his leaked advice suggested he did "not really have his heart in" Brexit, believing it to be "very difficult and long-winded".
He said the new ambassador should be someone "who thinks it's straightforward"."
So we just need an optimistic simpleton with no grasp of reality then.
John Redwood then?
John Redwood then?
Or Timmy Mallett?
So we just need an optimistic simpleton with no grasp of reality then.
Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage, John Redwood, Liam Fox........
The list is endless...
farage's ego knows no bounds he is glorying in dictating to the Tories how they should run the country
Nigel Farage ? @Nigel_Farage
I welcome the resignation of UK ambassador to Brussels, Ivan Rogers. The Foreign Office needs a complete clear out.
2:41 PM - 3 Jan 2017
Ever since cameron's disastrous attempt to silence farage and the tory eurosceptics with a referendum old nigel thinks hes now the boss of us all 😯
Unfortunately when the survivors stagger out of the bunkers after the impending nuclear apocalypse, Emperor Trump may prove him right 😯
He said the new ambassador should be someone "who thinks it's straightforward".
Redwood genius at work there.
Personally, I have no idea why dealing with the EU from the outside should make things any simpler than dealing with it from the inside, but even if you do believe that, then assuming the negotiations that enable that transition will be "straightforward" marks you out as entirely unsuitable to be involved in the task. We need people who understand the complexity of dealing in, and in future with, the largest group of trading nations in the world.
Sir Nicholas Macpherson, a former head of the UK Treasury, described Sir Ivan’s departure as “wilful & total destruction of EU expertise”. He pointed out that other senior UK officials with EU experience were not directly involved in Brexit preparations.
beyond farce.
I thought total farce was what we were aiming for? Surely no other conclusion could have been drawn from the appointment of the 3 stooges?
Pretty obvious from various comments that he had been frozen out by the Government. Whatever knowledge he may have had you can't have people in your team who don't have the right attitude. There is of course no guaranty he would have used his knowledge for the benefit of Brexit.
Gone and good riddance.
[img] 
[/img]
So let me get this right? No matter what expertise you have in this specific area, unless you tow the John Redwood/Daily Mail/Simpleton/flat earth theories being espoused by a specific bunch of squabbling headbangers, you have no place in negotiating this countries future?
That a fair summary?
Gone and good riddance.
Totally, the last thing Brexit needs is experts.
Whatever knowledge he may have had you can't have people in your team who don't have the right attitude
There is of course no guaranty he would have used his knowledge for the benefit of Brexit.Gone and good riddance.
absolutely, having people on the team that actually know what they are talking about and are willing to tell you the truth rather than what you want to hear, well its just not cricket is it.
partition is starting to look like the best solution for all concerned.
You know, I was always open to free movement of people across Europe, but over Christmas, something happened which completely changed my mind.
Its true what some have been saying up above: here in the North, there's just no integration of cultures, and locals are being sidelined completely.
Take this lot: on Christmas Eve, this whole family just turned up on our doorsteps and got a free 2-bedroom house out of it. I'm pretty sure they're subletting too.
They've told the local papers some sob story about how Professor Chocolate Rabbit is a noted political dissident in Sylvania, and has had to flee the capital itself, Sylvaniar, where he had a job in the University teaching political theory. Seems he and the President didn't get along.
Fair enough maybe, but: no papers, and they could have settled in Neutralia and claimed asylum. But here they are in the UK, on the back of a truck. Typical.
Doesn't help that they've got some kind of strange interracial thing going on with them and the Walnut Squirrels- disgusting. I'm not racial prejudiced, me, but surely they should be integrating into our own culture?
We're sure they're signing on and working in the local nail bar.
[img] 
[/img]
...coming over here, eating our acorns, stashing them away for the winter in secret locations....
Pretty obvious from various comments that he had been frozen out by the Government.
Sounds that way, doesn't it. And why? For trying to manage their expectations about the timescales involved in creating a trade deal with the EU? Anyone freely mixing the words "quick, deal, EU, approved by national parliaments" in one sentence, probably has a very strange view of the EU, and probably shouldn't be in government at all, never mind claiming to be preparing for negotiations with the EU and its member states.
Binners, I am all for people with worthwhile EU experience. However they have to be 100% behind the Brexit vision, which is out of the EU, customs union and single market. Him leaking the 10 years story imo puts him firmly in the "well you can just **** off then" camp. He was going in Oct/Nov anyway so better to have someone in place who will see the job through. Frankly it's also good for the EU to see all their buddies are getting fired. They can understand they are being with Brexiteers and not establishment EU-ers.
Him leaking the 10 years story imo puts him firmly in the "well you can just **** off then" camp.
How do you know he leaked it, not someone annoyed about the content of his briefing?
How long do you think it'll take to get a trade deal with the EU?
However they have to be 100% behind the Brexit vision, which is out of the EU, customs union and single market.
And, again, most people do not want your "out of everything" Leave plan… … so does that mean most Brits should take no part in Brexit… or are we all supposed to be working hard to make it work? Which is it?
He's not drunk deeply enough of the Brexit Koolaid. Can't blame him for quitting, who in their right mind would want to be involved in that omnishambles?
Jammers darling - you sound like a member of a cult. A particularly bonkers one!
The lunatics are running the asylum. All you dreadfully sane ones have had long enough. Our turn now.
🙂
Why on earth would he leak it and to the daily mail !
The brexies in government have been leaking against anyone who dares to offer a sensible opinion, eg Hammond
We all saw the Tories fighting like rats in a sack after the vote confirming that the whole thing was about furthering their own careers rather than the good of the country.
This is just more of the same
He's seen the flack that high court judges have got for doing their job - they got the full on brexit Nazi treatment from the daily Heil
To suggest he'd leak it to them himself is deluded even by brexiter standards
Having someone who knows what they are talking about telling you the drawbacks before you get in the room is definitely a hindrance. Much better to have someone who thinks it's straightforward so you don't even plan for the drawbacks.
Will they even be able to find non-joke candidates to fill jobs like this? What serious and competent person would take the job, knowing that any hint of reality will bring out the knives...
Having someone who knows what they are talking about telling you the drawbacks before you get in the room is definitely a hindrance. Much better to have someone who thinks it's straightforward so you don't even plan for the drawbacks.
Much better to have someone who is a Brexiteer. He failed totally to deliver withbthe "renegotiation" (see below). Yes of course the EU is going to come up with a long list of "it's so difficult, it's so slow ... blah blah". You need a Brexiteer to say ok then we'll go WTO so hurry up and get that organised.
Nige is spot on here, he helped negotiate the total non-deal Cameron tried to bullsh.t everyone with. He should have gone in June along with Cameron and the EU Commisioner
Once again the Mash nails it...
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/brexit-movie-only-going-to-be-released-on-vhs-20170103119541
However they have to be 100% behind the Brexit vision, which is out of the EU, customs union and single market.
so is Theresa next then?
The deal that Dave won will prove to be better than anything we end up with - by a 28 country mile
Theresa is the unity PM who totally gets it, I was surprised she "campaigned" for Remain although you'll recall she contributed very very little. We Leavers could see her heart wasn't in it.
Theresa is the unity PM who totally gets it,
UNITY!!!
someone who has huge form for incompitence. Who has stated the aim is cut immigration and screw the economy plenty of time.
There is no way to appease the brexiters and the remainers, but the tories don't give a s***, about the 74% of the population they only care about the 36% of nutters, and racists and the odd person who actually believes brexit is a good economic idea.
😆
you are like a Grand cru Jambalaya , you get better by the day .
[I]Binners, I am all for people with worthwhile EU experience. However they have to be 100% behind the Brexit vision, which is out of the EU, customs union and single market. [/I]
So who do you want as PM, 'cos surely TM isn't this person either?
She was simply smart enough to recognise that our best interests were served as a member of the flawed EU - a subtedly far too far for the three Brexshiteers for whom two syllables is a syllable too far
Nige on Channel 4 News. No deal is better than the whole thing dragging on and restricting us from agreeing new global deals and oaying a high fee for the privilege.
UNITY !
[ everyone must agree with and support the invisible plan, or step aside ]
they only care about the 36% of nutters, and racists and the odd person who actually believes brexit is a good economic idea.
If all of that 36% vote Tory at the next election as a result, then May carries on… job done.
There is no democratic pressure to try get a "deal for the nation", just a deal that keeps the Tories in office.
jambalaya - Member
Nige on Channel 4 News. No deal is better than the whole thing dragging on and restricting us from agreeing new global deals and oaying a high fee for the privilege.
thats the kind of naive bobbins youd expect from someone as deluded by his own self importance as farage
We still have to negotiate a trade deal with the EU as well as the rest of the world, they are after all our largest trade partner, driving out our own negotiators every time they confront you with reality is utterly self defeating.
As such its entirely in keeping with Brexshit.
Unsurprisingly Farage is simply lying in that interview
We have trade deals with 88% of our trading partners many of which were negotiated under advantageous terms thanks to our membership of the EU
Unfortunately in his one dimensional view of the world such a possibility is beyond his limited comprehension. Of course that is the polite version of events. More likely he understands the truth very well but would prefer to simply lie as the ends justify the means a la Farage, Trump, Salmond, Sturgeon & Co
jambalaya - Member
Binners, I am all for people with worthwhile EU experience. However they have to be 100% behind the Brexit vision, which is [s]out of the EU, customs union and single market.[/s] red white and blue but also meaning brexit
Fify, can you remember to tag that it's your view of brexit as the one certainty here is there is no consensus on what people actually want.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38469141 ]CES 2017: UK support to tech firms 'an embarrassment'[/url]
red, white and blue innovation go! ( so long as it's french or american i guess )
red, white and blue innovation go! ( so long as it's french or american i guess )
get with the program man !! we are going for a tea, jam and biscuits post brexit economy, no place for tech as that requires expertise.
interesting that the brexiteers are keen to push out civil servants who are not 100% with the program... sets a dangerous precedent for governments who feel the "political leanings" of senior/any civil servants are not 100% in tune with theirs.
No wonder farage & co are such fans of Putin, everyone who is not 100% loyal to the cause must be expelled
Looks like Sir Ivan got his primary colors mixed up .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38503020
The UK's ambassador to the European Union, Sir Ivan Rogers, has resigned. Here is his message to staff in full.
Dear All,
Happy New Year! I hope that you have all had/are still having, a great break, and that you will come back refreshed and ready for an exciting year ahead.
I am writing to you all on the first day back to tell you that I am today resigning as Permanent Representative.
As most of you will know, I started here in November 2013. My four-year tour is therefore due to end in October - although in practice if we had been doing the Presidency my time here would have been extended by a few months.
As we look ahead to the likely timetable for the next few years, and with the invocation of Article 50 coming up shortly, it is obvious that it will be best if the top team in situ at the time that Article 50 is invoked remains there till the end of the process and can also see through the negotiations for any new deal between the UK and the EU27.
It would obviously make no sense for my role to change hands later this year.
I have therefore decided to step down now, having done everything that I could in the last six months to contribute my experience, expertise and address book to get the new team at political and official level under way.
This will permit a new appointee to be in place by the time Article 50 is invoked.
Importantly, it will also enable that person to play a role in the appointment of Shan's replacement as DPR. [Shan Morgan his deputy]
I know from experience - both my own hugely positive experience of working in partnership with Shan, and from seeing past, less happy, examples - how imperative it is that the PR and DPR operate as a team, if UKREP is to function as well as I believe it has done over the last few years.
I want to put on record how grateful I am to Shan for the great working relationship we have had.
She will be hugely missed in UKREP, and by many others here in Brussels, but she will be a tremendous asset to the Welsh government.
From my soundings before Christmas, I am optimistic that there will be a very good field of candidates for the DPR role.
But it is right that these two roles now get considered and filled alongside each other, and for my successor to play the leading role in making the DPR appointment.
I shall therefore stand aside from the process at this point.
I know that this news will add, temporarily, to the uncertainty that I know, from our many discussions in the autumn, you are all feeling about the role of UKREP in the coming months and years of negotiations over "Brexit".
I am sorry about that, but I hope that it will help produce earlier and greater clarity on the role that UKREP should play.
My own view remains as it has always been. We do not yet know what the government will set as negotiating objectives for the UK's relationship with the EU after exit.
There is much we will not know until later this year about the political shape of the EU itself, and who the political protagonists in any negotiation with the UK will be.
But in any negotiation which addresses the new relationship, the technical expertise, the detailed knowledge of positions on the other side of the table - and the reasons for them, and the divisions amongst them - and the negotiating experience and savvy that the people in this building bring, make it essential for all parts of UKREP to be centrally involved in the negotiations if the UK is to achieve the best possible outcomes.
Serious multilateral negotiating experience is in short supply in Whitehall, and that is not the case in the Commission or in the Council.
The government will only achieve the best for the country if it harnesses the best experience we have - a large proportion of which is concentrated in UKREP - and negotiates resolutely.
Senior ministers, who will decide on our positions, issue by issue, also need from you detailed, unvarnished - even where this is uncomfortable - and nuanced understanding of the views, interests and incentives of the other 27.
The structure of the UK's negotiating team and the allocation of roles and responsibilities to support that team, needs rapid resolution.
The working methods which enable the team in London and Brussels to function seamlessly need also to be strengthened.
The great strength of the UK system - at least as it has been perceived by all others in the EU - has always been its unique combination of policy depth, expertise and coherence, message co-ordination and discipline, and the ability to negotiate with skill and determination.
UKREP has always been key to all of that. We shall need it more than ever in the years ahead.
As I have argued consistently at every level since June, many opportunities for the UK in the future will derive from the mere fact of having left and being free to take a different path.
But others will depend entirely on the precise shape of deals we can negotiate in the years ahead.
Contrary to the beliefs of some, free trade does not just happen when it is not thwarted by authorities: increasing market access to other markets and consumer choice in our own, depends on the deals, multilateral, plurilateral and bilateral that we strike, and the terms that we agree.
I shall advise my successor to continue to make these points.
Meanwhile, I would urge you all to stick with it, to keep on working at intensifying your links with opposite numbers in DEXEU [Department for Exiting the EU] and line ministries and to keep on contributing your expertise to the policy-making process as negotiating objectives get drawn up.
The famed UKREP combination of immense creativity with realism ground in negotiating experience, is needed more than ever right now.
On a personal level, leaving UKREP will be a tremendous wrench. I have had the great good fortune, and the immense privilege, in my civil service career, to have held some really interesting and challenging roles: to have served four successive UK prime ministers very closely; to have been EU, G20 and G8 Sherpa; to have chaired a G8 Presidency and to have taken part in some of the most fraught, and fascinating, EU negotiations of the last 25 years - in areas from tax, to the MFF to the renegotiation.
Of all of these posts, I have enjoyed being the Permanent Representative more than any other I have ever held.
That is, overwhelmingly, because of all of you and what you all make UKREP: a supremely professional place, with a fantastic co-operative culture, which brings together talented people whether locally employed or UK-based and uniquely brings together people from the home civil service with those from the Foreign Office.
UKREP sets itself demanding standards, but people also take the time to support each other which also helps make it an amazingly fun and stimulating place to work.
I am grateful for everything you have all done over the last few years to make this such a fantastic operation.
For my part, I hope that in my day-to-day dealings with you I have demonstrated the values which I have always espoused as a public servant.
I hope you will continue to challenge ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking and that you will never be afraid to speak the truth to those in power.
I hope that you will support each other in those difficult moments where you have to deliver messages that are disagreeable to those who need to hear them.
I hope that you will continue to be interested in the views of others, even where you disagree with them, and in understanding why others act and think in the way that they do.
I hope that you will always provide the best advice and counsel you can to the politicians that our people have elected, and be proud of the essential role we play in the service of a great democracy.
Ivan
Sounds like the sort of boss I'd welcome anywhere and the sort of person I would want on my side during any negotiations. I assume as seems to be the case honesty is not welcome during this period of great political uncertainty and as already established experts are not welcome.
However Brexit want to spin it we are not in the stronger position. If you are struggling to work that out find 27 people (maybe even 27 people much worse off than you) and see if you can convince them to help you more than you are willing to help them.
I hope you will continue to challenge ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking and that you will never be afraid to speak the truth to those in power.
I wonder who this is directed at????????
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Meanwhile Boris sets his priorities :
nothing else is happening right now in the world where the UK foreign secretary could be more useful .
Mr Johnson said: “It seems to mean anything from dodgems to Segways to scooters to your granny’s motorised bath-chair.“This kiddie quad bike insurance law is a perfect example of both the over-regulation that has sapped the competitiveness of the EU and burdened it with low growth and high unemployment, and the judicial activism of the ECJ.
Honestly making sure that the kids quad bike has some sort of insurance when it's in a situation where it can run into others etc. (like kids mates or siblings) and do some serious life altering damage seems resona ble to me.
Why is it when people start ranting about this stuff the EU seems more and more resonable. I guess this is why they want to dispense with the pesky courts and parliament.