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Unilaterally.International trade and politics should be conducted internationally, by us.
Who is 'us'?
Us Europeans perhaps? Little englanders? Brexies? Or just people like you Jamba?
Yep , he did not rule anything out , he covered all options .
Not a clue .
is this what the 'future of international trade and politics' looks like?
is this what the future of international trade and plitics looks like?
That's it, isn't it?
We're out. It's the stupidest decision that this country has taken since, well, forever. Lots of people will lose out. But we're no longer part of the club.
In French and German media it's a while since I heard of Brexit at all. Were it not for this thread I'd have done the same as the media and forgotten about until today's reporting of the united intransigence.
les Vingt-Sept proclament à l’unisson que les « quatre libertés de circulation » – des biens, des personnes, des données et des services – sont indissociables. Leur unité sur le sujet s’est cristallisée cet été quand ils ont compris – Berlin en particulier – que la moindre concession à Londres ferait exploser l’Union. « Si on ne fait pas respecter les conditions d’accès au marché intérieur, on risque la destruction de notre projet commun, c’est une question existentielle », soulignent en chœur les diplomates bruxellois.
En savoir plus sur http://www.lemonde.fr/referendum-sur-le-brexit/article/2016/12/15/brexit-le-grand-bluff-entre-londres-et-les-vingt-sept_5049304_4872498.html#lge7rm0vbVHLHQ3B.99
No point translating, the honourable British media are reporting the same: Britain accepts freedom of movement of goods, information, people and services or does one.
most diabetics in the states use treatments that were outdated her 20 years ago
Not only that, but diabetics I'm in contact with in the USA spend nearly half their take home pay on their treatment.
So, a more expensive heathcare structure that bankrupts those that need to use it.
And, advocated by those that cynically plastered NHS logos over all their Leave leaflets, buses and posters.
Hard not to be ****ing angry about it, for years to come probably.
He said there would be a paper (not likely to be a white paper) published before A50 with enough time for a Parliamentary debate and not before end of January.
Well, obviously not before end of January, because that would require the government having a plan NOW, and it clearly does not, and no one has a plan that they can adopt, either.
We are going to have full access to the single market at a minimum in the same way say the US does.
Well, that's a pretty low minimum.
You know the impression you get that the brexies running the show are all ****g bonkers, I mean it could all be a cunning ruse to catch out their European counterparts....
Well apparently it's exactly a bad as you might imagine.
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kelvin - MemberNot only that, but diabetics I'm in contact with in the USA spend nearly half their take home pay on their treatment.
So, a more expensive heathcare structure that bankrupts those that need to use it.
I can't find the article but the proportion of US diabetics that do less blood testing than they should, because of the costs of the consumables and insurer's limits, is... I can't think of a better word than disgusting. This is the difference between healthy and not. Doctor says "Here's a prescription for the strips you need monthly", insurer says "Nah, you don't need that many, 3 tests a day is plenty" Doctor says you'd benefit from a pump, insurer says "good idea, we're not paying for it all though so that'll cost you $2000, and we're not paying for the more expensive consumables either". And this is without any of the advanced stuff or serious doctor's time, retinopathy checkups, all that vajazzle.
Obviously i may lack objectivity here 😆 I'm sure if you can afford it, there's first class care but if you can't, then you can look forward to an early death and a life of complications. And since most T1s develop it as kids, that "if you can afford it" starts with your parents then carries on with your first ever job, all the way through considering further education...
And, advocated by those that cynically plastered NHS logos over all their Leave leaflets, buses and posters.
Links to anyone from leave campaign advocating the US healthcare system as a replacement for the NHS please?
If you want MPs rather than back room people in the campaign, check out "Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party"… actually, don't… but do make a note of the people involved, and that it recommends the NHS is replaced by private provision paid for by insurance.
In French and German media it's a while since I heard of Brexit at all
I was over in Austria last weekend for the Krampus festival.
One of them whipped my English friend Thom (who lives there) and a local came over and laughed "a Brexit whipping!"
It still comes up in conversation most of the time there.
"If it were up to me, I’d privatise the NHS” ? advocating the US System
its this type of alarming dumbing down of politics and debate that leads to things like people voting for Brexit 😉
Mr Banks also claimed his strategy to win the referendum campaign was to “bore the electorate into submission” in the hope that turnout was low – which he believed would help the leave cause.
Who is dumbing it down?
What is the US system Ninfan? Is it a private health system where money gets you stuff? Are you just trying to disagree(troll) with anything Privatising the NHS would lead to a US based system where insurance is needed but ultimatly those who really need it will be priced out of the market.
Jamba - there is no chance of tariff free access to anything without free movement of people. This is 100% clear
Canada has tariff free access
Agreed Edukator nothing really on the French news, they didn't even really feature the EU meeting today. Mostly domestic election policitcs.
@kelvin no tariff free access to the European single market gives us £10bn of extra revenues via WTO.
@igm "us" means the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
The turf war goes on at the EU with Schultz suggesting that eurosceptic MEPs lead by UKIP could block any deals in the EU Parliament if they where not fully consulted.
Jamba - do you actually bother reading anything coming out of europe - this is very clear.
@kelvin no tariff free access to the European single market gives us £10bn of extra revenues via WTO.
Yes, imported goods will cost 10bm more, exported goods will also be more expensive for the ROW to buy (EU being our major market) So the 10bn may be collected by the government but the 10bn still needs to come from somewhere in the first place - how much more will you be willing to pay for goods?
@kelvin no tariff free access to the European single market gives us £10bn of extra revenues via WTO.
ha ha yes of course because the tariffs and customs checks and paperwork won't have any negative effect on the volume of exports, so long as we still abide by all the EU regulations necessary to sell into those markets too, that we left the EU to avoid...
Why to the leavers keep on with the fantasies? It doesn't become true the more you repeat it.
No, it only becomes true when you write it on a bus.
@igm "us" means the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
How gloriously small - though I doubt if you went and asked them all, they'd all agree to be part of that "us" given half of those who voted wanted to be part of the EU (and it will have risen a fair bit by now)
"us" means the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
😆
Are we planning to annexe Ireland now !!
The infrastructure needed at entry points will cost more than £10 billions, plus extra staff, customs etc...
Back to the Empire Kimbers, watch out Australia and India , Boris is on his way to make you great again.
Are we planning to annexe Ireland now !!
Can we negotiate an exchange? UK (ironic) can have Ireland if Wales can leave. 😛
Who reckons that even if Brexit does turn out ok - because so much time has been spent on arranging it, the rest of the county will have gone to ruin because our glorious leader hasn't had the necessary time to give attention to other important matters in running the country.
That should have been part of the referendum discussion. Is Brexit so important that time will be diverted from certain areas?
Are we planning to annexe Ireland now !!
Well, we keep being told there will be no need for a hard land border, but not how that will be acheived, perhaps annexing Eire and dragging it out of the EU at the same time as the UK is the plan…
That should have been part of the referendum discussion. Is Brexit so important that time will be diverted from certain areas?
On that logic we would still be able to rip foxes apart with dogs on boxing day.
Are we planning to annexe Ireland now !!
😀 Good spot, Northern of course
The infrastructure needed at entry points will cost more than £10 billions, plus extra staff, customs etc...
Which is exactly the problem the EU have with Schengen and the migrants and terrorist crises, they have made redundant the majority of the border and customs staff. That's created a security problem as well as a major headache with people able to arrival illegally with virtual impunity.
As an aside the EU has been called out (by Green MEPs amongst others) on telling whopping lies abiut its "great success" in stemming migrant flows from Nigeria and has also been found to have been diverting aid fom other projects into anti-migrant measures.
@kelvin nonhard border in Ireland is going to be pretty simple in practicle terms. There will be some extra work for Eire too but everyone UK, Eire amd EU is committed to making it work
@eden certainly not me 😉 As I have said elections and the € crises will start to dominate the headlines in 2017/18, Brexit talks will almost become a sideline. That may give us a headache and the EU will have so many issues to deal with it may not be able to cope. I personally see the Government focusing on Brexit plus a few other key manifesto pledges, the opposition (cough) is in total disarray and the Government despite a small majority is going to be able to do exactiy as it wishes.
How will the non hard border between NI and Eire be simple? go on tell us a solution.
Tariff free access Jamba? How is this going to happen when its been made clear time and time again that you do not get tariff free access to the single market without freedom of movement.
how much more will you be willing to pay for goods?
Whatever the price is I will take that into my purchase decision. The vast majority of tariffs are tiny in comparison to potential fx moves both ways. I'd much rather buy British, we need much more of that attitude.
it's deeply worrying (from that times article kimbers posted) when politicians start to believe their own rhetoric/bullshit/lies !
Ah yes. The excellent US health system where my American brother in law required a $10K shot to boost his white blood cell count after a bout with testicular cancer. There was some delay as it wasn't clear if the insurance he had would cover this cost, or if he would have to stump it up himself. What every 30 year old needs on top of $50K+ of student loans debt.
When can we adopt this system and scrap the NHS?
Canada TJ, Canada.
The EU's stance is that ful access to THE single market requires freedom of movement. We will be leaving THE single market and thus we will end freedom of movement. We will replace that with negotiated tariff free access to a subset of THE single market.
Note services are tariff free underr WTO, the issue with services especially financial services is regulatory access.
good idea. guess the cayman's replacement price has just gone up 15% so maybe look at the evora?I'd much rather buy British, we need much more of that attitude.POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO #
If there are tarifs then used car prices will rise a bit. Tarifs 12% plus fx movemof 15% I suspect EU car orices would rise more like 25% and lose their relative advantage vs Japanese, Korean amd US cars
Well, we keep being told there will be no need for a hard land border, but not how that will be acheived,
Because of the geography, you could readily envisage a scenario where the Common Travel Area is preserved with Ireland outside Schengen. There could be free movement of people across the border (but with other rights to residence, work, benefits perhaps curtailed).
There would need to be a customs/trade border to block free movement of goods. That would require border checks. I'm sure nobody can see any problems at all with officers of the British State stopping and searching Irish vehicles as they try to move freely around the island. Nope, no problems there at all because we've always got on so well in the past.
On that logic we would still be able to rip foxes apart with dogs on boxing day.
It still happens, infact Fox gets ripped apart every time he appears before a select committee 😉
Actually Tony was able to start several wars at the same time, however much time was spent debating it.
Brexits 30000? new civil servants will be a bigger drain on parliament
pedantic point if you're going to use Éire please spell it right
Éire not eire, eire means encumbrance i think, my gaeilge isn't great but i am aware of a few bits.
mrmo - you can keep your funny little accent things above letters, furrin muck! 😉
[quote=jambalaya ] I'd much rather buy British, we need much more of that attitude.
"that attitude" is the same attitude from those who spend 2 weeks in Benidorm each summer, venturing nowhere else but the Prince Edward pub, watching Only Fools and Horses repeats and eating gammon steak and chips because they "don't want to eat any of that foreign muck"
Little Britain 🙁
If wishes were horses Jamba
How long did that trade treaty take to negotiate?
Why on earth will the UK leaving the EU lead to higher car prices in the EU?
Edit - I guess yo mean EU made cars in the UK will go up in price.
mrmo - you can keep your funny little accent things above letters, furrin muck!
Shouldn't we discussing this in Welsh or Gaelic, English is nothing more than an immigrant language half the words are French!, then throw in Danish, German etc not much left
jambalaya » I'd much rather buy British, we need much more of that attitude.
and that is what gave us the Allegro! Market forces, buy the best for the job not just because. IF it is s then it is s.
and that is what gave us the Allegro! Market forces, buy the best for the job not just because. IF it is s then it is s
indeed stay loyal to the motherland, one day we can all have one of these
[img] http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/autos/2014-05-23/cc6aa800-e280-11e3-b97d-4f5ae9e2bdc7_5408824120_0eeaef0548_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/autos/2014-05-23/cc6aa800-e280-11e3-b97d-4f5ae9e2bdc7_5408824120_0eeaef0548_b.jp g"/> [/img]
A trade deal between the UK and European Union is unlikely to be negotiated within two years, alongside Brexit negotiations, a German official has said, while sounding cautiously optimistic over the issue of citizens’ rights.
us £10bn of extra revenues via WTO.
we're not members of the WTO.
WTO +1
Please see comment previously how it ACTUALLY works.
Nipper it's trivial for us to reactivate our seat at the WTO
TJ EU dragged it's heals over negotiating with Canada as there was no real incentive, they had nothing to lose. As I said I am good to go with hard Brexit and focus on deals with US/Canada and Japan. The Japanese make a lot of cars in the US (my Honda came from Ohio) so tariff free cars from US and Japan would be great, take advantage of Japan's massive lead in electric/hybrid vehicles. They are the future. Maybe leverage McClaren's electric expertise (source of Apple takeover story a few months ago).
Also just so we are clear I have no interest in a "single market" deal which allows Apple, Starbucks, Google, Facebook etc to trade across border and keep their tax affairs in Ireland / Luxembourg etc. Ditto the German bike sites. Hopefully withdrawing from the customs union will kick those further into touch too.
Also just so we are clear I have no interest in a "single market" deal which allows Apple, Starbucks, Google, Facebook etc to trade across border and keep their tax affairs in Ireland / Luxembourg etc
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-2923_en.htm
The US under Trump is not going to do easy deals, Japanese have already said they want access to EU markets for their businesses implanted in the UK. India wants more visas.
Not the best start so far.
Nipper it's trivial for us to reactivate our seat at the WTO
but entirely dependent on the deal we get with the EU first, thats not so trivial
Another reason to prioritise WTO Kimbers, make EU secondary. What's the trade balance 65/35 or 60/40 ... rest of the world is more important
The Brexies are really all a little bit Walter Mitty with regard to trade and the economy aren't they?
The US under Trump is not going to do easy deals, Japanese have already said they want access to EU markets for their businesses implanted in the UK. India wants more visas.Not the best start so far.
Trump very happy to do deals between countries of similar economic standing, he said so. Those are much easier to do than between countries of significantly different wealth (eg US / Mexico is the issue with NAFTA not US / Canada). Anyway it seems US / UK trade will be facilitated by Nige 🙂
Japan can set tariff free access to UK vs desire for UK business to have tariff free access to EU (btw most commentators think manufacturing free trade will be easy to do)
Visas are hugely valuable, that's one area where free access to the UK from Europe has historically been providd far too cheaply, in fact we are paying for it when they should be paying us.
@igm it's all about looking for the big and therefore priority opportunities.
On another note it was raised the other day that the only EU countries with international military capabilities where the UK and France. With Trump/Mad Dog likely to take a harder line with NATO the EU would be well advised not to try and p.ss us off unnecessarily. In my view it's no bad thing for the EU to be less influential in foreign policy given their diabolical track record in managing and indeed inflaming conflicts.
Maybe the above is what you want but the reality is different. Might happen one day, but it is going to take a lot of time and money.
Compared with what we had every new half arsed plan is a slightly to a lot worse. Its simply matters of degree from
here.
Nipper it's trivial for us to reactivate our seat at the WTO
nothing reactivate as I understand our membership has always been via the EU.
I'm sure that Brexies have big dreams Jamba.
Apart from the meek and mild bit, the rest rings true for Brexy Britain though doesn't it.
Mitty is a meek, mild man with a vivid fantasy life. In a few dozen paragraphs he imagines himself a wartime pilot, an emergency-room surgeon, and a devil-may-care killer. Although the story has humorous elements, there is a darker and more significant message underlying the text, leading to a more tragic interpretation of the Mitty character. Even in his heroic daydreams, Mitty does not triumph, several fantasies being interrupted before the final one sees Mitty dying bravely in front of a firing squad. In the brief snatches of reality that punctuate Mitty's fantasies the audience meets well-meaning but insensitive strangers who inadvertently rob Mitty of some of his remaining dignity.
A Leaver's view of post Brexit trade - Dominic Rabb MP 1min 40 seconds
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38326615
let me guess, something about cake & eating it?
Before I watch, is it a war film or fantasy Jamba? They were advocating piracy previously I think - that is what buccaneering means isn't it?
Nipper it's trivial for us to reactivate our seat at the WTO
Jambafact?
http://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about-uk-regaining-wto-status-post-brexit
Ernie is back 🙂 I told him he'd missed nothing here in the last 3 months apart from everyone repeating themselves.
Nipper the rest of the world will be very keen to have us in the WTO, we are a massive importer.
we are a massive importer
Well, we were when we could afford it. Next year, not so much.
Nipper the rest of the world will be very keen to have us in the WTO,
Jambafact?
I see japanese banks are looking for some of them nissan 'assurances' $$$$
[i]Nipper the rest of the world will be very keen to have us in the WTO, we are a massive importer. [/I]
What, of all 162 countries exports?
Do you just not get it, they'll each want their 'pound of flesh', every single one of them - it's like trying to join a members-only club when you can't have any of them blackball you.
tbh It'd all be a lot easier if you Leavers could just accept that none of this is going to be easy, at least then we'd feel you were actually taking it seriously!
Andy Burnham on Newsnight. Whilst this couod have gone in the Corbyn thread I thought it was just as relevant here.
Intereting headline kimbers, last I heard Nomura (really Lehman Brothers London) had just closed most of it's London banking business (way before the Brexit vote). A try on ? Mind you from their perspective why not ?
That just Burnham saying what he thinks people want to hear in his mayoral campaign. He is the epitome of everything thats wrong with modern labour. NO spine, no leadership. Meekly following the agenda of the xenophobic press rather than having some principles and fighting for them.
A try on ? Mind you from their perspective why not ?
Yes why not, or more if you can't tell us whats going to happen we will move, they don't need to Euro HQ's so it will be an all out move. It doesn't list who the other Banks were but the indications were it was more than the 2 named. That will cost the treasury money, and weaken the position of the City so all in another Win Win for Brexit any more good news stories?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38345826 ]Yes, this one #fakeControl[/url].
Can a Brexiter explain to me why any of the other countries we want to strike trade deals with won't take the opportunity to better their position at our expense?
Because we have Great in our countries name and we once had colonies all over the world you know.. And we are better than everyone else.
Or maybe we will just get utterly gangbanged.
TJ or maybe not. You can't do anything in politics unless you are elected
@mike the other European countries are very closed / primative in terms of domestic financial markets. Banks and finance business are in London not least as the economic activity is greatest. Mergers and Acquisitions in France, Germany, Spain and Italy anyone ? 100,000's of jobs have been lost in banking etc since 2009, sector has changed markedly and is not "coming back". UK banks are shutting down European operations and have been for 5 years.
fourbanger you need to see past the European politics and understand Europe is being swept steadily towards a precipice. I am game on for calling their bluff and focusing the vast majority of our trade negotiations globally - our trade is 65/35 non-EU and we should aim to get that to 80% imo. Any negotiation is two way, there is a long list of countries who would love a trade deal with the UK for mutual benefit.