[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

What about the thick muppets who voted to remain because they were afraid that the stock market would collapse (it didn't) that David Cameron wouldn't resign (he did) article 50 would be invoked immediately (it wasn't) border controls would move to Dover (they havent) or that the UK would be forced to the back of the queue for a trade deal with the USA (lI think that claim has been clearly Trumped)

IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET!! WHICH PART OF THAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

Ninfan there's still plenty of time for that, we're still in at the moment.

IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET!! WHICH PART OF THAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

5th, ninfan - I'm loving your work. 😆

I suspect you're entirely deluded if you're serious, but it makes me laugh. Which one of you is actually Iannucci?

Even if you were neutral you would have to say that the vote has been detrimental to the well being of this country.

And Ninfan, it is also a binary question, a yes or a no will do.

It's like this:

Imagine you and your partner were watching telly one night, and your partner said "Let's move house!" You think about it for a bit and say 'okay, I want to move house'. This is like the referendum. So then you find a buyer and sign the contract and they have a moving in date. This is like triggering A50.

What we have now is your partner then saying "ok I'm going to sign the house over to the new buyer, they want to move in next month". What would you say? If it were me, I'd be asking wtf she thought she was doing, where we were going to live, and what the new house was like. And she'd reply "Doesn't matter, it's a NEW HOUSE it's going to be fantastic". And I'd ask how big it was and what condition it was in. She'd be saying "Doesn't matter, it's new! Well, it would be, if I had one. But it's bound to be better!" And I'd say wait, wtf do you mean it would be? Do you not have a house lined up at all? And she'd say "Look, we agreed to move house. That's an agreement, you can't back out now." And I'd say "FFS you are insane?". As I suspect most people would.

And then the buyer says that the price you agreed was a mistake and he won't be paying it.

Molgrips +1

That's how I see it, effin ridiculous!

Don't you trust your wife's judgement Molgrips?

I can guess she really appreciates you mansplaining to her what she has to do every step of the way...

If she said she had a house, and I really really trusted her, then maybe. But she said she hasn't got a house. We don't even know if there's one available anywhere, and if there is, is that sale going to go through and leave it vacant for us?

What about the thick muppets who voted to remain because they were afraid that the stock market would collapse (it didn't) that David Cameron wouldn't resign (he did) article 50 would be invoked immediately (it wasn't) border controls would move to Dover (they havent) or that the UK would be forced to the back of the queue for a trade deal with the USA (lI think that claim has been clearly Trumped)

[quote=ninfan ]Don't you trust your wife's judgement Molgrips?
I can guess she really appreciates you mansplaining to her what she has to do every step of the way...

adopts similar tone when ninfan mentions his daughters problems 🙄

FFS fella have some line you wont cross

Yes, because that's the same as a discussion on the EU Junky 😆

If Molly was actually having problems selling his house you might have a point, but unfortunately in this case you're just trying to close down the conversation because you're still butthurt from being on the listing side in both Brexit and Trump 😆

What about those who voted remain because there wasn't a good enough reason to leave and having looked at both sides decided to stay?

Yeah, we know about them... they lost

Yeah, we know about them... they lost

You really do like to try to get a reaction dont you ninfan and clearly it was truly insightful to note i mentioned it only because of election results and not because of what you said.

Mleh

Don't you trust your wife's judgement Molgrips?

I didn't think it needed pointing out that in that story, the wife represents Theresa May. So no, not in the least.

The leave side didn't say what the shape of "leaving" would be during the campaign. Whether it would be a full "hard" brexit, or a "soft" brexit, or something else.

That means that no-one can say what it is the leavers actually voted for, including the government. They simply do not have a mandate to just go do whatever they fancy.

So I think we (by which I mean *everyone*) have a perfect right to insist on some democratic accountability, rather than just relying on TM to do the right thing.

you brexit voting bastards..............

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/halfords-boss-warns-bike-prices-could-rise-due-to-brexit-vote/

I was gonna buy a appollo !

Ooh, are we doing binary questions for ninfan?

ninfan: do you condemn the newspapers for their headlines and articles after the A50 court ruling, yes or no?

Though I really wanted to come back to this one:

[quote=jambalaya ]Peyote I don't want to a citizen of a United States of Europe. I am British and proud of what that represents in terms of our history and our future.

Now I'll admit to cheering just as loudly as anybody else for the GB team at the Olympics, and I'll support Andy Murray at Wimbledon (until he loses, then he's a Scot 😉 ). Yet I'm a bit uncomfortable with this whole idea of being proud of things which other people have done who have no connection with me other than that they happen to have been born on approximately the same land mass as me (and brought up as part of the same larger society which is a more reasonable factor, but still they have no direct connection with me). The whole idea of identifying as being a member of a particular nation is largely about them and us, something I'm certainly not a fan of.

and whilst I was formulating those thoughts, this was shared on my FB timeline:

Aracer - as a Scot and on the subject of Andy Murray, I mean Scot, tennis, world number 1, am I the only one who finds this suspicious.

I mean next we'll have the Cubs winning, the premier league going to some team I've never heard of, Britain leaving the best trading partnership we've ever had and Trump becoming president.

I mean it's not believable.

And ever decent musician from Ian Kilmister to David Robert Jones, including Leonard Cohen along the way will die. I mean, aye, right, it's not going to happen.

Edit: nice clip by the way

[quote=igm ]And ever decent musician from Ian Kilmister to David Robert Jones, including Leonard Cohen along the way will die. I mean, aye, right, it's not going to happen.

Well at least we still have Joe Cocker

aracer that video ladels on the cheese.

But it brilliantly highlights how childish and naive people's notions of race and nationality are once you look at their DNA.

Sadly politics seems ever more immune from such realities recently.

Slight hijack because of DNA ... 🙄

aracer - Member
and whilst I was formulating those thoughts, this was shared on my FB timeline:

We fight not because we are different, we fight because we want your share. We want it all. We want to own you. We want to dominate you.

Remain and Reform. A lot of people supporting Remain wanted something different, they where not satisfied with the EU as it is and wanted to change it naively believing we would be able to do so when for decades its been moving away from what they wanted. Hardly a ringing endorsement is it ?

See this below, not at all .. Remain was not a vote for anything specific either

of plan was the worst. A leave vote was not a vote for anything specific. A remain vote was.

@kerly

Immigration lies (the net £ effect on UK)

No one voted Leave on the basis of cost of immigration statistic "lies" as Leave didn't present any economic numebrs at all. Leave could not present figures as the Govt prevented them having access to the civil service. Only Remain / Govt showed very high level stats which people rejected as [b]obvious bollix[/b] based on what rhey saw with their own eyes.

we're not leaving anymore, so don't worry about it.

No one voted Leave on the basis of cost of immigration statistic "lies" as Leave didn't present any economic numebrs at all. Leave could not present figures as the Govt prevented them having access to the civil service. Only Remain / Govt showed very high level stats which people rejected as obvious bollix based on what rhey saw with their own eyes.

or is this the one where you just dismiss anything fact based when it doesn't fit your narrative?

No one voted Leave on the basis of cost of immigration statistic "lies" as Leave didn't present any economic numebrs at all. Leave could not present figures as the Govt prevented them having access to the civil service. Only Remain / Govt showed very high level stats which people rejected as obvious bollix based on what rhey saw with their own eyes.

Or as really happened (in my opinion of course). Vague threats made by leave, and then fake derision when they are shown the real figures which while imperfect are pretty close in absolute terms.

Immigration is not uncontrollled and is a benefit to the UK. Hence the problem with stats for leave - there aren't any to support the arguments hence the need to lie

No one voted Leave on the basis of cost of immigration statistic "lies" as Leave didn't present any economic numebrs at all. Leave could not present figures as the Govt prevented them having access to the civil service. Only Remain / Govt showed very high level stats which people rejected as obvious bollix based on what rhey saw with their own eyes.

We fight not because we are different, we fight because we want your share. We want it all. We want to own you. We want to dominate you.

Nice thing to wake up to on Remembrance Sunday.

Try to keep your trolling with the bounds of decency.

I wonder how much the Brxitters shouting down Remain voters, telling us that we must follow their line is alienating people and will alienate fellow Brexitters who don't totally agree with their particular breed of leaving.
Fancy a party in a brewery?
Sorry, you wouldn't be able to organise it.

Hence the problem with stats for leave - there aren't any to support the arguments hence the need to lie

'Not everything that matters can be measured, and not everything that is measured matters'.

Leave had no problem magicing up figures when it suited them

And just look what an endless and ongoing tantrum the remainders had when Leave used the officially published government figure for our gross fiscal contributions to the EU

when Leave [b]mis[/b]used the officially published government figure for our gross fiscal contributions to the EU

Ah, so you accept it was neither made up nor untruthful then?

Good, glad we have stayed that dragon 😀

Misused is merely a matter of opinion of course... the cynical person would suggest that given it amounts to a metric ****ton of money, then remainders would say that, wouldn't they 😉

Worth remembering that the UK statistics authority never said that it was an inappropriate or incorrect use of the figure, just that [i]without further explanation[/i] it [i]could[/i] be [i]potentially misleading[/i]... which I am sure you will agree is still a long way from saying that it's use was wrong

I'm sure whatever side of the argument we can all rejoice in the withdrawal of uk citizens rights to travel and work in the EU. This has been a real problem for so long.
All those Mtb guides going off to the Alps when they should be here taking people around Epsom Downs. All those traitors going off to work in bars in Ibiza during the summer holidays. All those 5th columnists driving across Europe unhindered delivering people's goods as they unburden themselves from our NHS to live out their days in the sunshine.
You can't believe the amount of time me and Mrs zip have spent poring over the merits of retiring to either Camber Sands or Majorca. Thankfully the nearly 52 have spoken and taken that decision away from us.
As our glorious leader frequently tells us The Majority have spoken. Those words will give me tremendous comfort as I sit in a bus shelter on my 70th birthday watching the sleet.
Thank you all so very much you stupid ****s.

I'm sure whatever side of the argument we can all rejoice in the withdrawal of uk citizens rights to travel and work in the EU.

Oh, the outcome of negotiations has already been settled has it chicken little?

Ninfan - member
Worth remembering that the UK statistics authority never said that it was an inappropriate or incorrect use of the figure, just that without further explanation it could be potentially misleading... which I am sure you will agree is still a long way from saying that it's use was wrong

A bit of revisionism going on there. Not "potentially" misleading at all. Just misleading.

As we have made clear, the UK’s contribution to the EU is paid after the application of the rebate. We have also pointed out that there are payments received by the UK public and private sectors that are relevant here. The continued use of a gross figure in contexts that imply it is a net figure is misleading and undermines trust in official statistics.

https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/news/uk-statistics-authority-statement-on-the-use-of-official-statistics-on-contributions-to-the-european-union/

Lies, damn lies, and anything said by Boris Johnson....

Ninfan.
Today I can 100% go and live in Majorca and be looked after in their hospitals.
Can you guarantee me that this will be the case in 10 years time?
No ,well shut the **** up.
Sorry to be personal but I feel very strongly about this.

Ninfan.
Today I can 100% go and live in Majorca and be looked after in their hospitals.
Can you guarantee me that this will be the case in 10 years time?
No ,well shut the **** up.

Sorry to be dismissive but hey, that's democracy isn't it?

Edit: oldandpastit, not revisionism, the [url= https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Letter-from-Sir-Andrew-Dilnot-to-Norman-Lamb-MP-210416.pdf ]Original letter[/url] said potentially, it's only after they continued to use it that he said that, (some might suggest because of the continuing tantrum that the remainders were having over it because it didn't suit them, boo hoo)

Ah, so you accept it was neither made up nor untruthful then?

Today I can 100% go and live in Majorca and be looked after in their hospitals.
Can you guarantee me that this will be the case in 10 years time?
No ,well shut the **** up.
Sorry to be personal but I feel very strongly about this.

You couldn't guarantee that if we had Remined in the EU. You would be able to say it was more likely but you could not guaranty it.

More than 3 years ago I posted that immigration was a significant political issue and the responce here was "only for the swivel eyed Daily Mail reading loons". Well it wasn't taken seriously and look where we are now.

In other news I am delighted the UK has skipped this daft emergency EU Foreign Ministers meeting on Trump. 27 headless chickens in an EU winge-o-rama. I am sure they are sh.ting themselves as Trump is hostile to the EU. Many European nations are not paying their way in NATO and the eurozone debt crises imho is not IMF's problem (US being largest contributor to the IMF)

And which bunch of ladies did your glorious crusaders against immigration think they were going to get rid of?
Ooh let's see if we can guess?
Well,they ****ed that up as well.
[img] [/img]

More than 3 years ago I posted that immigration was a significant political issue and the responce here was "only for the swivel eyed Daily Mail reading loons". Well it wasn't taken seriously and look where we are now.

Oh, what a shame, zippy loses the argument on his right to retire to Majorca and jumps straight in to playing the Racist card

😆
Typical leftie, all for democracy and freedom of speech until he doesn't get his own way 🙄

as it was easier than fixing things...

I still think immigration is pretty much an issue for the swivel eyed lions only Jamba. The swivel eyed loons have failed to convince me otherwise. 😯 😯 😯 😉

Typical leftie, all for democracy and freedom of speech until he doesn't get his own way

Oh yes ninfan - that letter you mention is about as close to "stop it you lying gits" as you will ever get from our fairly impartial civil service types.

I don't think it helps your argument.

And on the Rolling Stones - well what you seem to want it FREEDUMB but what you need is trade on preferential terms with our European neighbours (which is going to cost you significantly if you leave the EU). All together now ninfan, "you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes maybe the EU will let you stay provided you grovel enough".

No one voted Leave on the basis of cost of immigration statistic "lies"

Take this 2009 Telegraph article for instance. [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html ]Muslim Europe[/url]

"The numbers are startling. Only 3.2 per cent of Spain's population was foreign-born in 1998. In 2007 it was 13.4 per cent. Europe's Muslim population has more than doubled in the past 30 years and will have doubled again by 2015".

Now if you're not terribly discerning when it comes to reading and interpreting statistics you could very easily read that as Spain's Muslim population is 13.4% and will double by 2015. Looking at population statistics elsewhere, Spain's Muslim population in 2010 was about 2.1%.

This stuff has been trapped out for years. A sector of the press along with Farage's "queue of immigrants" led to the belief that we are being swamped by an influx of foreigners BECAUSE of the EU.

Remain and Reform. A lot of people supporting Remain wanted something different

Oh, what a shame, zippy loses the argument on his right to retire to Majorca and jumps straight in to playing the Racist card

Oh, the outcome of negotiations has already been settled has it chicken little?

If immigration into the UK is the issue, then in what fantasy world will the uk have rights to travel anywhere and there be no reciprocation and no one allowed to travel to the UK?

Remember that May is talking about no migration not about skills or any of that, but basically banning all immigration.

Remember that May is talking about no migration not about skills or any of that, but basically banning all immigration.

#leftiefact

Or perhaps, ninfan, you can let us into a little secret of her position

"Its up for negotiation"

There, that was easy wasn't it?

Anyone else feel the wind starting to change again?

It's there if you look.

[url= http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/theresa-mays-not-bluffing-on-immigration/ ]http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/theresa-mays-not-bluffing-on-immigration/[/url]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/02/brexit-theresa-may-prioritises-immigration-curbs-over-free-movement

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37271420

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/07/theresa-may-rejects-calls-to-relax-indian-visa-rules/

i can keep on if you want?

There, that was easy wasn't it?

Thanks mrmo

Now perhaps you can show us which of those articles say that Theresa may was planning on

banning all immigration.

What's that you say? "Cough, splutter, racist, tories, whinge, doomed, the sky is falling, the sky is falling"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/reducing-net-migration-tens-of-thousands-per-year-remains-government-target-a7145411.html

effectively nothing.

Mind you when non EU migration was perfectly controllable and 150k per year, it is all bo110cks!

In a country with a non replacing birthrate an ever increasing number of elderly, no migration is going to cause issues. For a model look to Japan.

Sorry, I thought you said

banning all immigration.

Another #leftiefact stumbles at the first fence 🙄

As you claimed above?

Another #leftiefact stumbles at the first fence

would you rather i said ban all immigration unless your rich? Arab sheik, Indian business man, Russian oligarch your welcome we won't ask any questions about where the money to buy you mayfair apartment came from.

Students, you can f*** off, want to contribute to a local community not interested, etc

would you rather i said...

I would have rather you had not spouted alarmist and exaggerated #leftiebollox and run around shouting 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling' in a big post brexit mass-hysteria based over emotional mutual arse flapping panic just because nobody is giving you a running commentary.

But then, now that you've been called out on it, I suspect you wish you hadn't either 😉

But then, now that you've been called out on it, I suspect you wish you hadn't either

And yet, for some strange reason, like Jamba and Chewkw, I keep ending up on the winning side.

2010 election, indyref, 2015 election, Brexit, Trump

😆

And yet, for some strange reason, like Jamba and Chewkw, I keep ending up on the winning side.

Its certainly a minority I'm happy to be in.

Yeah, but lying to win votes and still ending up a loser is just a tragedy, isn't it...

#brexitageddon

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out ]You might want to have a read of this, I remind you that the process hasn't begun yet so it's a little early to be claiming any sort of victory. Oh yes, the cost of keeping Nissan here was a great victory, We need more success stories like that.[/url]
You have won nothing yet, keep gloating.

Considering you're a winner ninfan, you come across on this forum as miserable as sin.

Ninfan - given your earlier musical post, I saw this and I thought of you.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/13/jo-cox-charity-single-politicians-pop-stars-rolling-stones-kt-tunstall-david-gray?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-2 ]May you get what you need...[/url]

And the wind is changing ninfan, you haven't won yet, and you may well not win on Brexit

[i]And yet, for some strange reason, like Jamba and Chewkw, I keep ending up on the winning side.

2010 election, indyref, 2015 election, Brexit, Trump
[/i]

Reminds us Ninfin, haven't you been able to manage your family 'issues' precisely because we live in a country with a welfare state and a part of it is that there is no link to what you've put in, before you can take it out.

Yet your voting record kinda points to someone who doesn't really believe in it - hypocrite, maybe?

captainsasquatch - Member
And you still can't tell us what she wants or what she expects or what she is going to negotiate for.

I ain't complaining coz it is all fine as far as I know. PM can do what she think best for the country and I shall support her. Not really bother about what she does really.

Describe your feeling to me upon hearing Brexit Victory.

Describe your feeling to me upon hearing Brexit Victory.

Do you need the PM to give you a running commentary or do you think she should report to you?

I ain't complaining coz it is all fine as far as I know. PM can do what she think best for the country and I shall support her. Not really bother about what she does really.

Describe your feeling to me upon hearing Brexit Victory.

Foolish boy

What's that BR? The Tories are going to privatise the NHS and end all benefits?

Who knew? IF only the Labour Party had warned us before the election, or the election before that, or the election before that, or the election before that, or the election before that, or the election before that

Maybe we could write it on the side of a bus, and then when it didn't happen whinge endlessly about it?

Do you need the PM to give you a running commentary or do you think she should report to you?

If Leave had said what they were going to do, then I would be OK with May just getting on and doing that, whatever it was.

But they didn't, and I'm not OK with May just taking that Leave vote to use as carte blanche to do whatever she wants.

It's not even as though she was elected herself.

EDIT: I think the Conservatives said in their 2015 manifesto that we would remain within the single market (?). So I would expect her to stick with that.

Perhaps someone should tell Mrs May.

Although Mrs May’s team denied she had decided to quit the single market, the EU sees the free movement of workers and oversight of a single court as indispensable pillars of a common market.

Mrs May said she wanted to give “British companies the maximum freedom to trade and operate in the single market”, but not at the expense of allowing free movement or accepting the jurisdiction of judges in Luxembourg.