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On EU reform - I'd get rid of the council of ministers completely and stop the moving the parliament around nonsense.
MNattyfez - she may well be right in what she said but the tone and shouting it so loudly was just very poor politics as can be seen by the way she was so quickly slapped down by the greens and SNP. doping that was a crass misjudgment and makes compromise harder by making "winners" and "losers"
Blocking no deal by legislation obviously good, but will there be enough time, I doubt eu would extend just for that?
dazh
Until fundamental reform of the EU is on the table this will never go away.
If the last 3 years have shown us anything it's that the EU can perform remarkably well to an impending crisis. Actually, it bindings pretty well, full stop,considering how many counties and factions it has to please.
As far as I'm concerned, it's the UK government that is patently not fit for purpose and badly needs fundamental reform.
Indeed. A political event beyond voting against No Deal will be required to get an extension. It’s all about the timing of an election now, not whether we have one.
More worryingly…
Government ministers are going with the catch phrase “I will do anything to stop this group of undemocratic MPs”… language that used to be aimed at the EU… now it’s used against our own MPs (who are the only democratic element of our UK wide administration)… by ministers. And their rhetoric is aired without challenge or comment by our national broadcaster. Flipping scary.
Jeremy Corbyn was never serious about the meeting today, just look how shit his biscuits were.
Corbyn spoke well today about the meetings. As did the other MPs involved.
Yeah but nobody even mentioned the biscuits
Now I need biscuits.
Peak Freens Trotsky assortment, surely?
Too slow Binners. You were beaten to it.
Oh… I’d kill for a garibaldi biscuit now. My dad always saved them from his ration packs for me. Tasty nostalgia.
Curses!
Good article about today’s shenanigans by John Crace in the Guardian.
This does all feel like too little, too late. The populist right wing headbangers of Farage and Johnson seem to be uniting in a common cause, on a war footing again.
And we all know how well that turned out last time
Would Nigel Farage be Hitler or Stalin in the Brexit non-aggression pact?
Oh FFS!
BBC.CO.UK Democracy eh? Can't persuade parliament to do what we want so we'll prevent them from doing their job.
Well that should hopefully focus things for the MPs against No Deal acting in the interest of a vast majority of the country's population... Government announce Queen's Speech for October 14th, so parliament expected to shut down mid September.
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Is this what 'Taking Back Control' was all about then?
There's been a certain inevitability to this since that * took office. They literally couldn't give a * about anything other than their insane agenda.
How long before this is Corbyns fault?
There’s been a certain inevitability to this since that * took office. They literally couldn’t give a * about anything other than their insane agenda.
Tories for years.
Not just recently.
This is bad enough to make we want to drink vodka from a 35cl bottle whilst driving.
Don't judge me.
you think the obvious answer from the queen would be "Well if you can't govern then either hand it over to someone who can or call a general election!"
Don’t judge me.
Why not, you appear to crave it
you think the obvious answer from the queen would be “if you can’t govern then either hand it over to someone who can or call a general election!”
That presumes the queen cares about anything more than her families privileged position.
Why not, you appear to crave it
Yeah, but you don't want to appear too keen. Gotta try and maintain a bit of mystery.
Yeah, but you don’t want to appear too keen. Gotta try and maintain a bit of mystery.
You need to try a bit harder on that.
Just take a second to look at this from the point of view of a third party.
An unelected populist PM is suspending parliament to force through an economically suicidal policy against the wishes of parliament and, almost certainly, the population at large.
All of a sudden, the 1930s seem like very recent history.....
You need to try a bit harder on that.
Probably. It's hard to concentrate with all the constitutional outrage.
The time to avoid this was before Parliament broke up for the summer. Flip back through this thread to that time to see why. In summary… government ministers resigned to vote against Boris and his No Deal plans… one asked the speaker for that vote to occur… he said it was down to the leader of the opposition to call for that vote… the can was kicked down the road putting the parliamentary timetable and all the political cards in Johnson’s hands.
That presumes the queen cares about anything more than her families privileged position.
That would be enough of a reason for the queen to be pissed off. She has done well for years by virtue of not having to make any decisions. Being pulled into this shitstorm is unlikely to be making them happy.
one asked the speaker for that vote to occur… he said it was down to the leader of the opposition to call for that vote
About 10mins then!!!
anagallis_arvensis
That presumes the queen cares about anything more than her families privileged position.
I think she does. Given that this could destroy the country and, possibly, see it break up, I think she would be heavily invested in making sure the government was honest.
With that said, she is apolitical and this might fall into the politics part of things, so might just be something that tradition demands is rubber stamped. If it is, I can imagine her being livid at being put in this position.
I do wonder what would happen if she did stop it though. Would the militant Leavers explode in some sort of weird frenzy?
It's a sorry state of affairs when your best hope of avoiding catastrophe is your ceremonial monarch. Right now though, Her Maj is infinitely more qualified to run the country than this shower of bastards.
I do wonder what would happen if she did stop it though. Would the militant Leavers explode in some sort of weird frenzy?
It makes Farage's recent attacks on the likes of Harry and Meghan look a bit more calculated, doesn't it............?
The time to avoid this was before Parliament broke up for the summer. Flip back through this thread to that time to see why
Well aside from the minor little detail that plenty of other tory remainers have been clear they wanted every other eventuality exhausting before going for a no confidence vote.
We now live in a dictatorship
It’s a sorry state of affairs when your best hope of avoiding catastrophe is your ceremonial monarch.
Well, apart from the case going through the Scottish courts to prevent this scenario.
Problem is your average Brexit supporter is probably a royalist so criticism of Brenda isn't a good move
The Queen isn't going to do anything, she can't. So don't waste your time hoping she will.
Time to abdicate, if she abdicates I'll take back a couple of the hundreds of horrible things I've said about the royals over the years.
Right now though, Her Maj is infinitely more qualified to run the country than this shower of bastards.
So's my cat.
Blame the Speaker. Blame Tories against No Deal. Blame Corbyn. Blame Swinson. Blame who the hell you want… the point is that all these people needed to get their ducks in a line before the summer recess… not kick the can down the road to a post summer sitting that the Johnson team has full power to neuter.
How long before this is Corbyns fault?
It is not Corbyns fault but he needs to grow a pair and offer credible opposition.
Democracy is seriously failing, we shouldn't underestimate just how devastating that is for the values of our country.
the point is that all these people needed to get their ducks in a line before the summer recess
The point is you were making a completely invalid claim. Do you still believe you are correct on that claim?
To paraphrase Bomber Harris
"The Remainers entered this Parliament under the rather childish delusion that they were going to use Parliamentary procedures to stop everyone else, and nobody was going to use Parliamentary procedures to stop them. At Westminster they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
What was my invalid claim?
The Queen isn’t going to do anything, she can’t.
+1
The Queen preventing a new Parliamentary session would be far more damaging to democracy than a PM picking a convenient moment to start a new Parliamentary session.
Well actually it wouldn't be damaging to democracy because we'd simply stop being a monarchy over night. The Queen only holds these powers *because* she will never, ever use them.
I was listening to the radio last night thinking "Great, the remainers have finally got a single clear strategy agreed.". Seems like it was a bit too late. (Deliberately so?)