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The Unilever thing isn't what it appears to be as many of the products they've put prices up on are only made in the UK and with commodities that can be sourced here.
That said, Unilever has had a good run of supplying an increasing share of its UK sales from factories in Europe - the weak Euro rate has helped in that regard for many years. On the high volume goods that it exports to the UK it will now have a choice of absorbing some of the extra cost (it did this on Euro sales for years by using higher prices in the UK to offset costs in Europe) or invest more in the UK / making stuff here.
I suspect that another dynamic in the Unilever / Tesco spat is that Drastic Dave / Tesco CEO used to be a regional President in Unilever - so he knows how they negotiate (and vice versa) so is simply changing the rules of negotiation by cutting off their sales altogether. What will likely happen is that Unilever renegotiate pricing to gain access to shelfspace and that Tesco offer more own brand alternatives to Branded products. Just like the discounters have already done.
There's also an upside from this - as a UK listed company Unilever is likely to see earnings rise 20-30% over the next year - this is reflected by the 60% rise in share price since the brexit vote. That will translate into a £b or so additional corporation tax receipts for the Treasury.
[quote=Klunk ]You get the feeling the easiest/sensible way out of all of this for the Government is another referendum. Keep asking the question till you get the answer that you can live with.
Or at least a referendum with a clearer question and a fairer campaign from both sides.
I believe there are substantial rules around what political parties can say/ do in advertising and propaganda in the run up to an election. Why would those same rules not apply to referendum campaigning?
I dont think its unreasonable to say we have negotiated and been offered X do you wish to have X or remain
Its clearly a better vote when you know what you are voting for and it will be pretty clear the "scaremongering" will be seen as true and the "promises" seen as the blatant lies they were
I think that with everything thats happened over the last couple of weeks- ie: the country, and its future, being hijacked by a gang of ultra right wing headbangers - that another vote for Scottish independence will be well and truly back at the centre of the political agenda at the SNP conference this week.
that particualr referendum feels like it belongs to a previous age now
It might do Binners, but I think the mood of the electorate is to wait and see what happens with Brexit; and while the SNP has its Indy now!faction,it is also finely tuned to the opportunity to make as much headway in the forthcoming chaos. So far it is going EXACTLY as the SNP want.
The Unilever thing isn't what it appears to be as many of the products they've put prices up on are only made in the UK and with commodities that can be sourced here.
They made that point on the news with the implication that it is profiteering.
What was missing was the detail (as ever).
Unilever is Dutch company. If Tesco are paying them in sterling then it seems pretty reasonable that they'll need to hand over a bit more sterling now that it is worth less against the Euro. If Tesco are already paying them in Euros then it has nothing to do with the FX rate or Brexit.
I dont think its unreasonable to say we have negotiated and been offered X do you wish to have X or remain
Trouble is, even if that wasn't political suicide, I don't think we will ever be in that position. We won't know our final "settlement" until we trigger Article 50 and spend the two years negotiating. By that point it'll be too late to say [i]"Actually that's crap, we'll just stay after all thanks, sorry for the bother"[/i].
However I [i]do[/i] think we should have on-going parliamentary scrutiny over the deals being made and the laws being changed.
Frankly it's pretty amazing doublespeak to suggest that allowing MPs to debate and vote on the future of our country is "undemocratic".
I think that with everything thats happened over the last couple of weeks- ie: the country, and its future, being hijacked by a gang of ultra right wing headbangers - that another vote for Scottish independence will be well and truly back at the centre of the political agenda at the SNP conference this week.that particualr referendum feels like it belongs to a previous age now
Indeed
as Scots see the value of the pound tumble and food prices rise, they might just start thinking fk it, what have we got to loose? Even if the numbers dont add up for post indy finances.
An increasingly right wing, xenophobic and clueless looking conservative government will only drive a bigger wedge between Westminster and Scotland
Let's face it, the numbers don't add up for brexit and that didn't stop millions voting for it...
Frankly it's pretty amazing doublespeak to suggest that allowing MPs to debate and vote on the future of our country is "undemocratic".
And given that the Leave campaign played heavily on accusations that the EU was 'undemocratic, remote, and unaccountable' the shear hypocrisy of their position is absolutely breathtaking.
As my gran used to say 'Their faces'd stand clogging'
Unilever is Dutch company. If Tesco are paying them in sterling then it seems pretty reasonable that they'll need to hand over a bit more sterling now that it is worth less against the Euro.
Yes but although it's a Dutch Company listed on the UK FTSE many of the products it's raised prices on are only produced in the UK - including Marmite - ( Burton on Trent). Those goods are all sold to UK retailers in £ by Unilever's UK Sales and Marketing business unit. So there's still no excuse for a 15% rise not least as not all elements of the cost will have increased by that much - the lag in commodity supply contracts means that Unilever is still producing now using raw material purchases completed in April / May - well before any change in exchange rates.
The most likely outcome is that Unilever will have to pay Tesco to regain the shelf space and adjust the prices for goods sold to retailers in Europe - we know this is possible because for the last 5 years Unilever failed to pass on price cuts on goods imported to the UK when the sterling was stronger i.e. British Consumers subsidised the cost of goods sold on the continent.
Maybe we'll also Unilever putting back the thousands of jobs they have cut from operations in the UK over the last 5-10 years.
[b]PRODUCED IN THE UK DOES NOT
MEAN ISOLATED FROM EFFECTS
OF HISTORICALLY WEAK CURRENCY[/b]
[quote=kelvin ]PRODUCED IN THE UK DOES NOT
MEAN ISOLATED FROM EFFECTS
OF HISTORICALLY WEAK CURRENCY
Of course it does. Down with your gloom. good old Mrs Miggins is churning out hand made 50" LCD tvs down 't mill...
edit
So you keep saying "many" and yet you are very scant on giving an actual figure to manymany of the products it's raised prices on are only produced in the UK
What is it in
1) numbers of products v products they do
2) % of income
3) percentage of all costs
I assume you have an evidence base for your claim and are not just speculating so lets see the proof please
Tesco and Univeler need each other to survive. But in those disputes the retailers tend to back down as consumers ask for the branded products.
There is such a price war between supermarkets that none of them want to be the first one to increase their prices.
The other ones might have a longer price agreement with Univeler but eventually they will all be affected.
I buy £1500 of food weekly for work and suppliers have said prices are going up.
Indeed Chris they need each other just like the EU and UK need each other. At its simplest the Unilever story comes down to reporting currency. This is €.
Amusing to think that everything is going to plan for the SNP. Their fairy tale is unraveling in public. The economic case has weakened (not that this stood up to much anyway) their advisors admit that they screwed up on the currency, a Scottish pound would come with massive austerity (go on Nicola) so they are left with the saviour of joining a failed currency union. Thank goodness the majority of Scots can see thru such nonsense.
I agree that leaving the EU makes Scottish independence a much harder sale, but it's worth looking at how Holland/Nederlands relationships work as regards in/out EU. There are some interesting, far from simple to explain, options open to those North of the border as regards having a different relationship with Europe than us sorry sods South of it.
Independence is split roughly 50/50 at the moment. Which way do you think it's going to go if we see across the board 10% price rises over the next year?
What's Better Together going to be called for the next referendum. Bad But It Could Be Worse?
Thank goodness the majority of Scots can see thru such nonsense.
meanwhile in Galsgow....
BREAKING: @NicolaSturgeon announces #indyref2 bill to be published for consultation next week - wins cheers standing ovation #SNP16
I wouldnt be so confident of that THM
the brexishambles makes the SNP look more credible
The majority is Scots are among the few who come out of this with any credit. Union with U.K. is massively beneficial (tick) as is preferential membership of EU i.e. access - € - Schengen
Canny folk let down by occasionally silly politicians.
She is an opportunist like the three BSers
Having said that she and her predecessor spotted post truth politics well before most. They almost got away with it too. I still trust Scots to be sensible though
the brexishambles makes the SNP look more credible
This shower could make anyone look credible
[img] 
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I could sympathise with the Scots if they just wanted to be ruled by politicians who weren't completely shambolic.
She is an opportunist like the three BSers
Having said that she and her predecessor spotted post truth politics well before most. They almost got away with it too. I still trust Scots to be sensible though
"credible"???? Incredible more like. The whole argument has been blown out of the water. She will use legitimate arguments re EU to potentially lead Scotland into the folly of the €. Some indeoendence that would be. And she would have to give up on the pretence is being anti-austerity. It would be fun to watch were it not for the real impact it would have on the Scottish people.
For the record, I was a firm no voter in the Scottish referendum
I'm now firmly in the yes camp. The overwhelming majority of my friends who were no voters previously are also in the yes camp now.
Well good luck. You are going down a dead end with that one.
Having said that she and her predecessor spotted post truth politics well before most. They almost got away with it too. I still trust Scots to be sensible though
Post truth politics involves using catchy slogans instead of detailed policy. Say what you like about the White Paper but a catchy slogan it was not.
It gave a detailed proposal that allowed the opposition to pick apart their arguments. This lesson was well learned by the Brexiteers.
I don't follow Scottish politics but N Surgeon has been the one politician standing out from this mess at the very beginning. She didn't hide or disappear like the majority of English politicians. At least she is standing up for what she believes.
Project Fear eh?
Former bosses of Tesco, Sainsbury’s, M&S, Asda, Waitrose, Morrisons and B&Q warn that “prices will rise” if Britain leaves the EU.
Research by retail union USDAW finds that, if we were to leave, the hit to sterling and the imposition of tariffs would increase prices for families by £580 a year.
Stronger In analysis shows higher inflation as a result of leaving would cause a hike in rail fares.
consumers ask for the branded products.
is that why tesco are losing market share to aldi and lidl?
Aldi and Lidl sell a lot of branded products on essentials lines like tea bags and bread.
they sell some but hardly any - aldi anyway as I dont go to Lidl - not snobbery its just not near where i live.
Hang on a minute?
This doesn't mean that there could potentially be a trade tariff on Aldi Bratwurst, does it?
[quote=teamhurtmore ]Well good luck. You are going down a dead end with that one.
Folk said the same about Brexit winning...
Meanwhile......
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37640982 ]Welcome to the future. BNP style[/url]
You traitorous scumThis doesn't mean that there could potentially be a trade tariff on Aldi Bratwurst, does it?
GREGGS is a proudly owned UK company that Remoaners like you are doing down with your endless negativity
Its your patriotic duty to eat them and eat them often and in plenty
Do it for Britain eat more pastries.
This is my first time back to the UK since the referendum and things have changed.... People have change. Friends, family, pub locals with whom I have previously enjoyed passing the time of day I no longer feel much inclined to sit in the same room with.
It is as if people feel that their latent racist & xenophobic views have been legitimised.
There is also a case of "I'm alright, Jack" when you speak to the older generation about the potential increase in the cost of living, the loss of jobs and the lack of opportunities.
The GF said something interesting the other day.... She always had the feeling that the British were overly confident. An attitude that we are better,smarter than everyone else. I think our jingoism is about to hit us hard.
Interestingly you don't see other nations politicians telling the proletariat how great they are (great British business, hardworking British families, etc). It's almost as if we need reassuring the whole time.
It's quite strange.
N Surgeon has been the one politician standing out from this mess at the very beginning.
And why was that? Because she's got far more electoral security than any other politican, by miles. So she can afford principles. Plus that's the SNP's schtick anyway. Having principles is fine until you aren't winning then it becomes a liability. Just ask Corbyn.
Re Unilever - according to my Mrs just now Marmite is made in the UK then exported to the EU and re-imported back again. Hence currency exposure.
Legacy of the empire whereby some folk think we can somehow regain this level of control /importance.The GF said something interesting the other day.... She always had the feeling that the British were overly confident. An attitude that we are better,smarter than everyone else. I think our jingoism is about to hit us hard.
I also think being an island nation - inselaffen- means we are naturally less "european" and more isolationist that countries who can just nip over the border for lunch
How many Brits say they are off the Europe for example?
Re Unilever - according to my Mrs just now Marmite is made in the UK then exported to the EU and re-imported back again. Hence currency exposure.
it doesn't leave the warehouse
http://order-order.com/2016/10/13/unilever-books-profits-outside-eu-in-switzerland/
just like Starbucks/ Facebook/ Apple etc
alpin - Member
This is my first time back to the UK since the referendum and things have changed....
are we sure its not just some sort of cannabis induced psychosis ? 🙂
Sturgeon is playing a difficult balancing game. A significant section of her support want another referendum now. She is by nature cautious tho and does not want to call one unless the polls are 60%+ as she knows she will never get another chance. There will be anopther vote and timing is key. It needs to be not much later than triggering article 50
She is running a basically cautious and competent government which in this day and age is a real plus.
Some interesting side issues. 1/3 of SNP support voted out of the EU. A significant number of SNP voters voted NO in the independence referendum. anecdotally there does seem to be a large number of previous No voters now switching to yes after the EU referendum but this is not reflected in the polls
Sturgeon has got to reconcile these and more before she can be confident of winning an independence referendum
Personally I am surprised the EU vote did not lead to a significant swing on independence
JunkyardHow many Brits say they are off the Europe for example?
wot? if i understood the question i could possibly give you an answer.... 😉
indeed.
one bloke down the pub spoke of returning the country to the prosperity he knew as a kid. he moved tables after i mentioned that that prosperity was based on goods imported from countries were Britain was dictating the price it paid for those goods.
he moved tables.
Seriously considering a move to Scotland.
I'm guessing this will blow over but leaving the EU will have economic repercussions in the short term, it may work out for the better in the longer term but that's probably 20+ years away.
One obvious thing is that there is always someone somewhere making money out of these type of things, the recent drop in the pound will be totally devastating to some companies for others it's likely to be a bonus.
The real winners as always are the bankers and financial institutions that thrive/drive their greed with economic uncertainty!
All IMHO of course 🙂
Personally I am surprised the EU vote did not lead to a significant swing on independence
drowned out by the "oh f888 look at the oil price"
kimbers - Memberalpin - MemberThis is my first time back to the UK since the referendum and things have changed....
are we sure its not just some sort of cannabis induced psychosis ?
if only it were.... sadly those times for me at least are [s] over [/s] on hold.
Re Unilever - according to my Mrs just now Marmite is made in the UK then exported to the EU and re-imported back again. Hence currency exposure.
No - this is transfer pricing using trade routes that have likely been structured to specifically avoid recognising revenue where one would expect / avoid tax. If that's the case then the only reason Unilever have raised the price of Marmite (produced in the UK with UK supplied commodities) is because they have structured their operations to avoid tax.
if only it were.... sadly those times for me at least are over on hold.
ive been off weed for 6 years, i hardly miss it now,
Maybe Big and Daft but for most folk thats not that big a factor IMO. Oil or no oil there is no reason why Scotland could not be a prosperous nation
another bloke down the pub found it interesting when i told him that i lived in Germany.
bloke down pub: "bet you're pleased about Brexit then"
me: "why?"
bdp: "showing them that they don't rule over us"
me: "but i live there.... they kinda do rule over me"
bpd "hmmm... yeah"
island monkeys....
schadenfreude....
😳How many Brits say they are off the Europe for example?
How many Brits say they are off to Europe on holiday- it indicates our isolationism or separatism from Europe as clearly we are [geographically] within Europe but still consider it seperate
one bloke down the pub spoke of returning the country to the prosperity he knew as a kid.
When was that exactly...
[img] 
[/img]
([url= http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=GB ]sauce[/url])
I don't remember too many people happily carrying about £500 pocket computers when I was a kid.
Talking with my German partner this morning. What does the jury think? Will everyone in the UK have to replace their EU Citizen Passports in order to travel after we leave in 2019? If so it is going to be an expensive pain for anyone having to renew theirs in the next 2 years or so.
My mum was telling me she voted to leave the EU cos of uncontrolled immigration of 'the ****s'
I said ****stan wasn't in Europe but....
She also told me she found a snail without its shell. A slug? says I. What is a slug? says she.
It will be interesting to see how the SNP propose to meet the funding deficit 14 + billion PA is a lot to find from a relatively small population.
Whilst oil revenues may increase now that opec / Russia have realised that they are going to have to work together, the high prices of 2+ years ago are unlikely to return in the for many years.
Whilst oil revenues may increase now that opec / Russia have realised that they are going to have to work together, the high prices of 2+ years ago are unlikely to return in the for many years.
especially as there are no big oil fields left to find off scotland (probably) and the infrastructure to extract it is in need of a lot of investment
[b]IF[/b] they could get Indy and get past Spain's veto to get into the EU then theyd have to start persuading Nissan etc to start relocating their factories North of the Border, rather than to Europe as they flee a hard brexit.
Scientific research would probably get a huge boost from EU funding
From Sturgeons speech
"So I can confirm today that the independence referendum bill will be published for consultation next week.
You know, there’s not a day that passes just now without someone advising me to hurry up with a referendum.
And there’s not a day that passes without someone advising me to slow down.
Welcome to my world.
But the responsibility of leadership is to act in the best interests of our country as a whole.
The morning after the EU referendum, I said that I’d be guided at all times by a simple, clear test.
What is best for the people of Scotland?
That’s the principle that I will continue to be guided by - and I know I can on your support every step of the way. "
An interesting contribution in today's Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/12/if-europe-insists-on-a-hard-brexit-so-be-it/
yourguitarhero - I think your mum must drink in my local
just5minutes - Member
An interesting contribution in today's Telegraph:
Obviously written by someone who doesnt care how much marmite is going to cost him
This one is a lot heavier on the facts and a lot less 'lets cut off our nose to spite our face'
Will everyone in the UK have to replace their EU Citizen Passports in order to travel after we leave in 2019? If so it is going to be an expensive pain for anyone having to renew theirs in the next 2 years or so.
Easily identifiable as a British passport so probably not, they will just have any entitlement revoked and replaced through natural wastage.
Obviously written by someone who doesnt care how much marmite is going to cost him
Probably written by someone who can see that Unilever raising prices to avoid paying tax on stuff produced in the UK, then exported and then reimported back to the UK (likely without any movement of the physical goods) is just part of a bigger picture of jobs and factories and profit all being moved offshore for the benefit of international finance. Unilever make it here and sell it here - the fact they reportedly muck about with transfer pricing to avoid tax on the profit they make here is easily resolved.
Will Young is taking the whole Marmite thing pretty hard
[img] 
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Probably written by someone
Actually it was written by someone who thinks that the Oaklahoma City bombing was really a conspiracy carried out by the FBI/ATF on Bill Clintons instructions 😯
I'm going to buy a red cover with the eu stars on it to cover my blue passport just to **** nigel off.
When I hear EU leaders taking this type of stance I too want a hard brexit. Get it done and let's move forward. Threatening rhetoric from EU leaders does not help matters.[b]But what has caused me to harden my view - somewhat - is the open intimidation by a number of EU political leaders. "There must be a threat," said French president Francois Hollande. "There must be a price... otherwise other countries or other parties will want to leave the European Union."[/b]
When I hear EU leaders taking this type of stance I too want a hard brexit. Get it done and let's move forward. Threatening rhetoric from EU leaders does not help matters.
exactly lets tell the Kippers and Government that, no point running in making stupid demands.
Of course there will be a ****ing price, you pay to play you can't have the same shit for free. That's not how the real world works.
When I hear EU leaders taking this type of stance I too want a hard brexit. Get it done and let's move forward. Threatening rhetoric from EU leaders does not help matters.
It's people listening to political rhetoric that's dropped us into this mess.
When I hear EU leaders taking this type of stance I too want a hard brexit. Get it done and let's move forward.
you are 'Deluded' David Davies and I claim my [s]£5[/s] £4.25
Since when did facts become threats?Threatening rhetoric from EU leaders does not help matters.
Ist there club we cannot leave, not pay, not adhere to the rules and then expect a sweetheart deal
That is not a threat its just popping the bubble of delusion though of course you can still blame them for explaining the threat that to be in a club you need to follow the rules
so need a gif of falling pound prices for that kimbers...
the real point is people think the Eu is being all like demanding and stuff but like all I was doing like was borrowing all their stuff like and it was all OK like and they never said nufin like but it was all cool and like and now when I've stopped paying rent I can't live there like and I can't use the cooker like and it's so unfair like init
See I don't see that as "threatening rhetoric" at all. It's just a statement of fact.
If the UK leaves the EU, but is then allowed to continue to enjoy all the benefits of the EU without any of the apparent downsides, then there will be a stampede of other countries following us.
It'd be like finding out that you don't need the £5 Member's Card at Go Outdoors because you get exactly the same prices and benefits without it. Why would you bother buying the card?
Edit: Also, what mike says 😀
It'd be like finding out that you don't need the £5 Member's Card at Go Outdoors because you get exactly the same prices and benefits without it. Why would you bother buying the card?
I borrow a mates 😆
£13 Billion pounds to access "free" trade though..
What is best for the people of Scotland?
Blindingly obvious
That’s the principle that I will continue to be guided by
No really. Who says narcissism can't wear a skirt.
Hollande above is simply starting the bleeding obvious. Of course if you stick to facts - better together, remain, cuckoos etc - you run the risk of further alienating the indoctrinated. In the world of post truth politics, the BSes know how to manipulate this situation perfectly. Tell the Scots the truth and you are a Westminster bully, promise them the world for ever and you are a heroin(e)
£13 Billion pounds to access "free" trade though..
but we sell them >[s]£200bn[/s] £170bn worth of goods!
corr, prices really have shot up
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jar-of-Marmite-/252583478534?hash=item3acf260506:g:ExgAAOSwLF1X~3gG
but we sell them >£200bn worth of goods!
And uk import £300bn from eu
£13 Billion pounds to access "free"* trade though..
fallacy of equivocation
free- without cost
free-unrestricted
it is free trade but that does not mean it has no cost
New survey being passed round #SNP16 - shows (55%) would support an independence referendum in the event of a Tory-led hard #Brexit.