[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Clearly I lack this skill so its fair enough to say it.

Probably just a lack of protein in your diet 😉

Davis is still shouting his Taking back control speech at mp, and still unable to explain his plans for Brexit.

zippykona - Member
Chewk,what kind of hardship?

If you do not have the paper works in place then you need to work hard to get them. Just like me. I have gathered all the necessary paper works to qualify me to work as minor bureaucrat all over the world. I am now very good at ensuring I have all the paper works in place.

Stow away on the back of a lorry, paddle across the sea?

I quite like my current option of loading up my car and driving down to majorca.

BruceWee - Member

Yes, it is binding. Absolutely.

It's not legally binding. It's advisory.

Well, I'm quite liking Kier Starmer's performance today - some opposition at last.

Chewk I'm 51 , left school with minimal qualifications and not a millionaire. What paperwork do I need that will let me move to Australia?
I really don't see that I should have to go and get a degree so that I can go and live in Spain.

Democratically it is binding. Unless you oppose democracy

As above, which you haven't answered: unilaterally making decisions about the future direction of this country after Brexit, decisions that will impact everyone living here, decisions that you have no mandate for, without debating those decisions in a democratically-elected parliament, THAT is "opposing democracy".

Regarding the tone of Chewkw's comments, perhaps he has been reading the Express lately?

There is an interesting article in the Independent online about the rising intolerance of alternative political views expressed in our wonderful right wing tabloids.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7357591.html

These newspapers and their commentators are implying that those who disagree with them should be silenced, locked up even. That we are traitors.

The Mail and the Express seem to have decided they simply do not recognise the legitimacy of people who have a different political position.

These newspapers preen themselves as champions of free speech and traditional British liberties. Yet they are seeking to delegitimise contrary political views, to silence them through intimidation and the implied threat of violence.

molgrips - Member
Honestly you don't really know how the system is set up. You're not alone either so don't take this as an insult.

The UK is a representative democracy. That means that you vote for an MP and they join in parliament and it's parliament that rules. Not us.

Very simple. What if MPs refuse to acknowledge people's will by voting against the people will what do you think is going to happen? Ya, you are now in the process of establishing or creating "new" kind of Politburo. Democracy is dead! Long live Politburo!

And the referendum was explicitly stated as only advisory.

You refuse to acknowledge the democratic outcome of a referendum then you have made the entire Western Civilisation is a joke with no legs to stand on. If that is the case then Democracy is slowly deteriorating as a concept and other nations should refuse to acknowledge such system.

(jimw's link: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/daily-mail-brexit-daily-express-the-sun-tabloids-language-political-intolerance-traitors-a7357591.html )

zippykona - Member
Chewk I'm 51 , left school with minimal qualifications and not a millionaire. What paperwork do I need that will let me move to Australia

You speak the same language, same culture, perhaps even same ancestral linkage and you cannot even be arsed to scarifice a few year of your life to retrain to go over?

Me mate is about the same age as you! The bloke has NO qualification apart from the certificate gained from Harley Davison as mechanic.

I really don't see that I should have to go and get a degree so that I can go and live in Spain.

You refuse to acknowledge the democratic outcome of a referendum then you have made the entire Western Civilisation is a joke with no legs to stand on. If that is the case then Democracy is slowly deteriorating as a concept and other nations should refuse to acknowledge such system.

to use a fairly crude analogy, it is as if we had a referendum on whether to move, or to stay still. We voted to move.

Now we have to decide where to move, when to move, how far, how fast, in which direction.

This is all still to be decided. Should the people (or their representatives in parliament) have a say in this? Or should they be told to shut up - they voted to move and that's the end of it?

because majority of the people have voted to leave.

This is a blatant untruth

Does this kind of thing [i]really[/i] sound like "democracy" to you chewkw?

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"Silence" the "snake-like treachery" of the "unpatriotic" opposition. Punish them. Clap them in the Tower. They "must take what's coming to them"

😯

doris5000 - Member
Now we have to decide where to move, when to move, how far, how fast, in which direction.

This is all still to be decided. Should the people (or their representatives in parliament) have a say in this? Or should they be told to shut up - they voted to move and that's the end of it?

Therefore, let PM May sign the paper first.

After that you can argue until your face is blue.

rkk01 - Member

because majority of the people have voted to leave.

This is a blatant untruth

Sometimes even the Devil cannot manipulate the truth by fiddling the details. (this sounds better)

Graham and theocb well said ^. sadly like to fall on deaf ears

Back on topic - as much as I dislike the decision and distrust the motives of the three BSers in charge, the government really do have to be left to get on with much of this. We voted for Brexshit and this will be delivered in a hard, lumpy format or a soft one. Either way it will stink. But we cant be checking spools at every twist and turn of the U-bend.

Absurd to listen to some Tory backbencher BSer arguing that it was all about trade. Doh, that is what it should have been at the start instead of all the xenophobic nonsense and lies that marked the debate (sic). from the start, we had a simple question - what is the best arrangement that facilitates trade with our largest trading partner. We had avoided € and Shengen and the rest was just silly noise. Sadly the real debate didnt happen and we have thrown the near-perfect toy out of the pram (excuse the mixed metaphors)

Barmy

Therefore, let PM May sign the paper first.

Except they are making decisions, agreeing on the way forward and deciding our negotiating positions and goals NOW.

I'd rather not be in a situation where we are left saying "[i]Actually the vast majority of the British public didn't want to (rejoin the EFTA / deport all the foreigners / keep paying the EU / give up free trade)* but now you've kind of steered us irrevocably down that path without even discussing it with us."[/i]

*delete as appropriate.

GrahamS - Member
Does this kind of thing really sound like "democracy" to you chewkw

"Silence" the "snake-like treachery" of the "unpatriotic" opposition. Punish them. Clap them in the Tower. They "must take what's coming to them"

GrahamS - Member

Therefore, let PM May sign the paper first.

Except they are making decisions, agreeing on the way forward and deciding our negotiating positions and goals NOW.

I really don't want to insult your intelligence but do you really believe the news from that newspaper or any news as a matter of fact?

It's not "news", it is opinion.

Powerful hateful divisive invective that tries to mould the opinions of the millions that will read it.

And it is pretty damn far from "democratic"

That's Govt's role.

No. That is PARLIAMENT's role.

GrahamS - Member
It's not "news", it is opinion.

Powerful hateful divisive invective that tries to mould the opinions of the millions that will read it.

And it is pretty damn far from "democratic"

No. That is PARLIAMENT's role.

Not running commentaries.

My understanding is that govt is doing what govt supposed to do. i.e. background work.

As you'd need too, if you were suddenly faced with a situation of which you'd previously had no prior warning, and you also had no previous knowledge - not even 40 years or so - of how these organisations actually functioned.

Because if that wasn't the case then you'd either be either

a) A totally clueless ****-wit who was making it up as they went along
b) A devious bastard who was flagrantly distorting the situation to further an unspoken agenda you wanted kept from both parliament and the people

Because if that wasn't the case then you'd either be either

a) A totally clueless ****-wit who was making it up as they went along
b) A devious bastard who was flagrantly distorting the situation to further an unspoken agenda you wanted kept from both parliament and the people

You could be *both* of those things of course....

You want to curb opinions? What about opposing opinions? Should we curb them too?

No, [i]I[/i] don't.

The people that wrote those articles are the ones saying that the opposing opinions are "disgusting" "unpatriotic" "treachery" "cannot go unpunished" and must be silenced.

I'm the one saying that wanting to curb mainstream opinions because you don't agree with them is undemocratic.

My understanding is that govt is doing what govt supposed to do. i.e. background work.

Did you watch any of the Tory conference or listen to any of the news? They are not quietly doing "background work". They are setting out our stall. And while they are at it they are using the vote as a mandate for introducing measures that no one asked for.

Like I said previously PM May will sign the paper to exit then you can decide and debate..

No actually [url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/12/theresa-may-accepts-need-for-brexit-debate-in-parliament?CMP=fb_gu ]she caved and there will be [i]some[/i] debate[/url] on the negotiating strategy, as there blimming well should be in a democracy.

My god can you lot not get on to the they real issue, a free Yorkshire (an it better be cheap). Once again an international bike race has been awarded to Yorkshire, not England or the UK but gods country Yorkshire.
ITs about time we had a freedom for Yorkshire referendum, that there Scotlandshire could tag along with us.

Cry Freedom, cry Yorkshire! Makes me cry every time I hear Northern Power House.

Here's a thought. Since Article 50 says that it can be invoked by a member state "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements" then isn't the EU going to have to verify that it is being invoked in accordance with the UK's own constitutional requirements?

I mean, presumably if I rocked up to the EU and said "We're invoking Article 50. Don't worry, I checked, it's in accordance with our constitutional requirements. OK, bye." then you would hope they would have a lawyer check that I was allowed to invoke Article 50.

Presumably when May invokes Article 50 then the EU is going to have to check that she actually has the right to?

Just take one look at the [s]absolute headbangers[/s] people presently trying to silence any debate. John Redwood? Bill Cash? Paul Dacre? Jacob Rees Mogg? Just look at the ultra-right wing, frankly bonkers policies and agenda's they champion.

And they want to be left to get on with it all behind closed doors, with no democratic oversight?

Given that they're effectively being handed a blank sheet of paper to re-write this countries constitution, are you happy with the editor of the Daily Mail, and his mates, being the ones to do that? And for them to just give us a shout when they've finished?

Just skim-reading the last page, noting jamby's continued absence and chewkw's somwhat rampant bellicose BS, has anyone seen those two in the same room?

And they want to be left to get on with it all behind closed doors, with no democratic oversight?

Oh, wait....

If i ever start arguing i am always polite and considered in my opinions

you believe in an unevidenced [b]sky fairy[/b]

Doesn't look very polite or considered. Actually it reads as damn insulting. There are numerous terms you could have used there; deity, god & omnipotent being for example but instead you choose to use a childish insult. Tell me, how many thersauruses do you think have "sky fairy" listed as a synonym of deity?

That was Jamba level.

TBH i think we all many of us debate in a more robust manner on here than ofline
For example three of my closest friends are devoutly religious and a friend from school now teaches RE. I am not as rude to religious folk in the real world as I am on here but they all know how strong my views are but that I respect their choice.

So you're a self acknowledged keyboard warrior. Says even more about you that you think it's fine to talk to folk like this when it's anonymous but wouldn't do the same in real life.

Anyway, moving on...

More evidence that the fall of the pound will be good for the economy*

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/12/tesco-running-low-key-unilever-brands-price-row-supplier-supermarket-falling-pound?CMP=fb_gu

*strong sarcasm

Doesn't look very polite or considered. Actually it reads as damn insulting. There are numerous terms you could have used there; deity, god & omnipotent being for example but instead you choose to use a childish insult. Tell me, how many thersauruses do you think have "sky fairy" listed as a synonym of deity?

That's why we have an opposition.

Oh, wait....

Indeed. But luckily it appears the less unhinged elements of the Tory party appear ready to step up to the plate. And in the midst of all this right wing triumphalism, Theresa seems to have forgotten a very important fact. She has a majority of only 12.

Or maybe that's the very reason she wants this kept out of parliament. Because she knows full well that she hasn't got a hope of getting this 'hard Brexit' nonsense past her own party if it goes to a vote

Point 1 - Clearly I am accepting i am rude sometimes on here so I am not sure why you did that - was it to be rude ?
Point 2- you have deliberately misrepresented what i said on order to paint the worst picture with the choice of keyboard warrior- was it to be rude?

that both of these should happen whilst you are appealing for greater politeness is amusing

as i said yes I am,sometimes, rude and now we have established you are but you wish others were not so yes lets move on

FWIW the only definition i found was in the urban dictionary - well known for its politeness
and it was this

The name of any god, spirit or divine presence of which there is no evidence

I dont know what it says about irony 😉

.

At the risk of going further down the rabbit hole, and not specifically in defence of JY, I think there's an important distinction between respecting someone's right to a view or belief and respecting the belief itself. I think it's absolutely right that anyone can believe in whatever they choose, but believe in something that is obviously (to me anyway) ridiculous and I reserve the right to ridicule. Again, it's the belief that is ridiculed not the right of the person to hold said belief. I don't see that belief in the christian god is any more or less ridiculous than belief in the flying spaghetti monster, so to me they are equally fair game.

It's another thing altogether when there are some points of view so objectionable that I don't think a person has a right to hold them. I'm taking here about racism for example. In those cases I think it's important to challenge those beleifs very robustly indeed.

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This article kind of sums things up nicely. [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/12/britain-brexit-eu-pound-euro ]Brexit means... what ever the eu wants it to mean. [/url]

The Brexit command is totally deluded about there own power or negotiating strength. It may go down well to get U.K. Votes to knock the eu but it makes for a terrible negotiating strategy.

I find it really interesting the control of language that brexit has. The brexit vote was a slight majority in favour but somehow has become an overwhelming mandate. A brexit campaign that campaigned on the money we could save , sovereignty and a declining Europe becomes about resolutely controlling immigration.

To all whom it concerns-
A. This is serious
B. We have a narrow marginal vote for Brexit (but it is a vote for Brexit)
C. We have an unelected PM with significant power
D. Those in charge of Brexit are shall we say are questionable
E. Our elected representatives have no vote on the terms (therefore we have no vote - forget the referendum folks it's done)

So in conclusion our collective future (regardless of politics) has been handed to an unelected pm and the gang of four (of which Hammond is the only nervous about brexit rep)

How is this democracy? A 4% swing vote of the voters has handed 5 people the future of this country with what appears to be little accountability? To parody Churchill never have so many been so dependent on so few.

47% (probably a lot more now the realisation is setting in) of this country has NO representation politically or economically- I think this is as close as it is possible to get to a dictatorship within the UK.

I have seen some shit in my 53 years and after Thatcher; Miners strikes etc I never thought anything more divisive would ever happen. Well here we are.

well at least they have the carefully laid out manifesto promises to fulfill.

oh wait, no hang on. it was a load of screaming bullshit by liars.

Not generally a fan on Tesco's business practices but at least they have "called out"
Unilever for trying to up prices on British goods due to Brexit / £

Boarding - just bored really, same old stuff same old thread conduct so why bother. Maybe for amusement I should dig up all the abuse and ridicule I got when I said I was actively campaigning for Leave. How many here stood on street stalls or dropped leaflets round for Remain ? An object lesson in winning nothing by arguing on an internet forum

First heard about the marmite and food thing from a Brexiter - who only just gets by each month - worring about going into the red and blaming the companies for profiteering. From what I've heard from a friend that works in the food industry, this is going to happen across the board from 2017 onwards as food manufacturers were running really tight margins already - so no room to absorb the tanking pound.

It's very gratifying to see these idiots losing their minds.

Not generally a fan on Tesco's business practices but at least they have "called out"
Unilever for trying to up prices on British goods due to Brexit / £

I mean the cheek right! When all the imported goods, such as Barley and Hops from the states are skyrocketting. You're just as foolish as the ex-friend I mentioned above.

welcome back 😉

The problem will be two fold - (in bullet point mode today)
1. Massive parliamentary bun fight and the Lords have yet to weigh in and this will all convolute the process.
2. Someone in the EU (Slovenia Slovakia etc) will simply go * off you arrogant *s
3. Out in the cold weather go - please could the blind faith brigade just not respond with rainbows and pots of gold

Do you guys actually feel for the people who have to endure EU since 1 January 1973?

I've just joined these people.
Feel free to do something productive.
http://euromove.org.uk/we-need-your-support/

Endure EU ?

like cheap holidays in Spain , decent quality food at reasonable prices , freedom of movement and capitals ?

Part of me still thinks that she want the brexiteers to get a shit deal- giving them enough rope etc= and parliament overturn and it and she can say I tried

Then again she does also seem massively anti immigration so may get that in a deal if parliament over turns it

I agree the Brexit vote has to be upheld and we do need to open negotiations

Somewhere some form of democracy has to offer an opinion on the deal we get and whether we want to accept that or remain

It's Not that likely it will be another referendum but it is hard to see how we leave to reclaim power and then dont have a vote on by our elected representatives. Would be ironic if unelected bureaucrats negotiate our release and no one votes on it.

Binners you'd be able to read Corbyn's reasons for leaving the EU had he not deleted all his old blogposts.

I see ernie can't be bothered to contribute, can't blame him for that

Anyway - I'll survive just about here in London, looking forward to watching the North and the Midlands turn into East Germany.

http://euromove.org.uk/we-need-your-support/

Zippy, the ship has sailed. Merkel's 5 year ban on claiming unemployment benefit has been passed I see. Voters throughout Europe are fed up with the EU. It's corrupt, incompetant and bust

cchris2lou - Member
Endure EU ?

like cheap holidays in Spain , decent quality food at reasonable prices , freedom of movement and capitals ?

All superficial.

No need to be in EU to enjoy them.

You get the feeling the easiest/sensible way out of all of this for the Government is another referendum. Keep asking the question till you get the answer that you can live with. 😉

Tom, we grow Barkey and Hops too

I find it really interesting the control of language that brexit has. The brexit vote was a slight majority in favour but somehow has become an overwhelming mandate. A brexit campaign that campaigned on the money we could save , sovereignty and a declining Europe becomes about resolutely controlling immigration.

Quite agree, its not about immigrants, but really it is

then todays PMQs/brexageddon debate was just ridiculously depressing,
May completely denies (aka barefaced lies) that Rudd says they were gonna name and shame immigrant employers, then theres gonna be a green paper and debate and a vote, then ever more confused looking Davies says, no green paper, Johnson wants us to overrun the russian embassy, everyone says Fox is a ****, Redwood is still carrying on the unhinged gigglig conversation he was having with himself on newsnight about how we have the stronger negotiating position
there were as many tories as labour asking for a debate and vote on hard or soft,
Kier Starmer was calmly skewering the entire front bench, Corbyn seems bewildered that all of a sudden he's scoring easy hits at PMQs.
No wonder the pound is on its arse- its painfully f-king obvious that none of the government have a clue what they want from Brexit or how to go about getting it
so we are going to tumble into a WTO tarriftastic deal where, all foreign investment will leg it to somewhere with proper access to the free market.

Theres only one way it could get worse and thats if a spray tanned, racist, rapey, narcisisst, who we all thought was made up for tv were to become POTUS

Jam, I want to spend my retirement somewhere warm.
If I can't go to Spain where can I go? I won't get enough points on any "Australian points based system" to get me anywhere else that's warm.
Sure you and your patriotic friends can claim victory to every barrier you put to stop them foreign ****s coming in. Well,surprise,surprise them foreign ****s will respond in kind.
Ich bin ein foreign ****.
Spain is 90 minutes away. It's nearer than the top of Scotland.
Your stupid vote it costing me money and stopping me sitting in the sun. What are you getting out of the deal? What benefits are you feeling today? You've split the country,led to a rise in racism and sunk the economy.
Thanks a ****ing million.
http://euromove.org.uk/we-need-your-support/

I'm lucky, I can always **** off to the Philippines - also my wifes company is making a tidy profit on Brexit - so her bonus will be pretty good this year. Save 20 grand and we could live like kings for a few years until this has all blown over.

Jambalaya's fine - French wife with benefits that go with that for him and his children in terms of EU residency / citizenship.

If I can't go to Spain where can I go?

Gibraltar?

Tom, we grow Barkey and Hops too

You are aware that even in a good year we only grow enough barley to supply 60% of our brewing industry? Hops far less and most of the newer and more popular varieties don't grow well here due to climate. I'm pretty sure I explained this to you the last time you mentioned this too.....

If we pretend that the solution to our problems is to grow more of our own food then barley production would likely be one of the first crops to be replaced. But as putting national wellbeing ahead of profits is anathema to Brexiters I can't see this ever being an issue.

Well if Brexit can deliver autumn lambs Im sure we can grow as much hops as we desire

I watched some of today's debate - how long do you think May's got?

The knives were out on both sides of the house, and amongst disenfranchised leavers and remainers.

I have an idea. Cut all this rubbish about hard or soft Brexit and the reasons for why people voted.

We were promised moon on a stick Brexit. Give us moon on a stick Brexit.

All I want to hear now (and it may still be too early) is for the proponents of Brexit to eventually start admitting it's not doing us any good. Instead of wising up we still have people defending the hole in the unstable ship.

Okay let it sink, fair enough but you lot had better start taking stock of the evidence soon as I'm getting increasingly frustrated with those that defend the choice and do not realise they have created something we just weren't ready for.

Also as a small film production company we are just getting the info for the latest camera equipment we usually upgrade to. Will struggle to do it this time around due to cost. (The upgrading cycle is crucial to stay ahead)

We are at the same time expected to deliver extremely competitive prices to the local authority for training and educational films - we haven't raised our prices in years as we like to accommodate them. We are currently going through a few tendering processes and it's hard to remain super competitive.

We can't sustain both. I would love to be able to buy British equipment but guess what it doesn't really exist any more.

Marmite shortages!

Hi ho hi ho it's off to court we go ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/court-case-battle-looms-over-brexit-legality-article-50
Interesting read for all you armchair constitutional lawyers
https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2016/09/30/the-governments-case-in-the-article-50-litigation-a-critique/

Your stupid vote it costing me money and stopping me sitting in the sun. What are you getting out of the deal? What benefits are you feeling today? You've split the country,led to a rise in racism and sunk the economy.
Thanks a **** million.

Satisfaction at your displeasure maybe? I didn't realise that we had to vote in line with what's best for you. If only you'd made that clear at the time.

It's corrupt, incompetant and bust

And the UK isn't?

Quite worried about what would happen if the legal challenge succeeds and parliament vote Brexit down.

Never thought I would fear political violence in this country.

One aspect that hasn't been picked up on (AFAIK), is the sudden "devaluing" of UK company earnings...

Over my working life more and more companies have been bought by ultimately US corporates. My own employer is a global company, but US HQ,ed and NYSE listed.

Our UK sales and revenues are reported in $US. Next year's targets are 20% tougher in dollar terms - or worth 20% less to our Corporate masters.

All the talk of manufacturing import / export costs and their impact on the economy - everyone's ignoring the reduced Post-Brexit service sector ($) earnings potential...

Mentioned that a few pages back in relation to what is the impact of a weaker £

Serious point as we saw with Unilver yesterday

There is a massive danger of over analysing all of this. The negotiations haven't even started and all this noise is (as one of the links above noted) merely harming our relationship with/ steeling the resolve of those we seek to trade with. It's self defeating.

Despite all the Independence Day BS, this is and has always been a massive complex task. Redwood is disingenuouos to suggest otherwise. Nobody has done this before and both sides are going to lose out. So not surprisingly, it's going to be anything but smooth. So expections need to be more realistic.

Laura K got in right on the news last night, these are merely the foothills. We have a whole mountain range to cross. So pace yourselves ladies and gentlemen!!!

+1 rkk01

I was reminded last week by an American company we deal with that while we may talk in GBP the targets are in dollars...

No quarter given and all that.

I didn't realise that we had to vote in line with what's best for you. If only you'd made that clear at the time.

May should be more worried about the next financial crash. Inflationary pressures are starting to emerge (expecations now through 3%) and all the liquidity supplied by he BoE has got stuck in reserves not the economy plus the BoE needs to sterilise all the crapy bonds it holds. Mind your backs - history "May" repeat itself!!!

I certainly get the impression that a lot of brexit voters were thinking about what was best for themselves rather than the general good.

The overwhelming impression I get of them is that there wasn't an awful lot of thinking going on at all.

Never thought I would fear political violence in this country.

Not forgetting the IRA and Jo Cox

Thinking? That is being generous. Many things were suspended, that being one of them.

Normally I can walk away from a STW argument because the width of your handlebars does not affect me.
This on the other hand will make my life a whole lot worse. For what point?
Sheer bloody mindedness.
Free ? Free from what? The Tories are free to do whatever the **** they like. YOU will have no come back.
Someone shits on you from Westminster how does that differ to shit from Brussels?
Everyone I know that voted out did so for the £350 million and even though " I'm not racist but" a long diatribe about something that someone did in the papers who happened to be not from Europe anyway.
ARE SATISFIED? IS YOUR WORLD A BETTER PLACE?
I guess you have to be a millionaire that doesn't live here to answer yes.

Regardless of your vote - other than a small minority everyone in the UKs quality of life has and will deteriorate in the most simple terms that means
More expensive food
More expensive fuel/heat
More expensive holidays
More expensive consumer goods
Reduced wages in real terms
Increased redundancies in skilled business
Reduced future investment (EU and private sector/education)
Increased gov borrowing
Increased interest rates
Reduced possibly regionalised benefits (triple lock will go)
Shortage of willing low level labour for the service industry - thereby increasing costs in Hotels Restaurants NHS? Retail and so on

The reality is that most of the above will have the greatest impact on poor folks and young families.

The economic investment to stop he above is financially very difficult and risky to do and don't think the people who have money to invest in the UK are going to look at us as a viable opportunity - other than buy to let?

I have still yet to see from either gov or from anyone Brexiteers anywhere (including here) how we address the above in anew economic manner? And all the talk about Brexit at the moment is Article 50 and the terms of exit with NO discussion or suggestions of even the most basic post exit economic disaster recovery plan - well other than borrow a lot more money but even that facility will reduce and become more expensive.

There is data to suggest we have a 1970s or even 1030s type recession coming if controls are not deployed and Mark Carney who appears to be a business administrator at heart with little political involvement understands this better than most. If we go free trade post Brexit the pound is likley to become even more devalued great for exporters but on balance even exporters have to often buy raw materials in and use power etc so it's not straight forward.

We all need to remember the wide group of people negotiating this exit will not be that badly damaged by even a 1930s style set back. So unless you are a multi millionaire FTSE stock owning individual we all need to put aside our remain/leave views and try and salvage (and that is the reality) what we can and that includes ensuring there is a parliamentary vote on the exit terms- I for one have no desire to go down with the ship.

The overwhelming impression I get of them is that there wasn't an awful lot of thinking going on at all.

Tweet sums it up nicely

https://twitter.com/FetchezLaVache_/status/786313060713652224?s=09

Not generally a fan on Tesco's business practices but at least they have "called out"
Unilever for trying to up prices on British goods due to Brexit / £

I know what plannet are they living on? the pound hasn't fallen in value at all, project fear has reached new heights of ridiculousness Brexit will make us all better off, every patriotic Brexiteers knows this