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If we stay in Europe and ignore all the laws that we don't like what would happen?
We'd be Spanish.
Edit@ beaten to the punchline by 15 seconds 🙂
zokes - Still not a customerinternationalist ... a great album by Powderfinger...
isn't it just.
i found my copy by pressing the 'cd eject' button in a hire car, which was nice.
massively one-eyed pessimistic scenarios designed to scare the population into voting remain.
You're right people should stop doing down this great country. The treasury are the worst, a bunch of pinko-liberals pushing their ill-informed internationalist communist agenda on the rest of the country. 🙄
Amazingly you are blind to when your side promised the world- and is still doing so despite it being utterly unachievablemassively one-eyed pessimistic scenarios designed to scare the population into voting remain.
Its true they were overly pessimistic and brexiters hopelessly optimistic
We all know [unless we do policy based evidence making] it will be shit the only question is how shit and for how long
BBC News video story about retail price rises with the usual standard of intelligent and insightful vox pops 😆
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37612777
Text-based one here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37605642
Le Penn will be much more supportive
Awesome.
I can't wait to have that right wing mug in my corner!
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massively one-eyed pessimistic scenarios designed to scare the population into voting remain.
Lol 🙂 Cos leave never lied....
You're arguing from a pre-determined point, Jam.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37612777
they export more to us, than we buy off them
This sounds like the sort of nonsense Jambalair comes up with.
we won't buy their flowers, we'll buy English flowers instead!
These people must be actors.
These people must be actors.
Unfortunately not. They're Turkeys who've just been asked if they're looking forward to Christmas
Terrifying isn't it?
says it all nicely i think.
The 10 year one is much more fun.
low:14.96183
high:130,386,126,556.91151 😆
love Hammonds
Yeah it's not volatility or turbulance it's one way traffic.We are going to go through a period of volatility, there will be lots of commentary going on and we can expect to see markets being more turbulent over this period and we should prepare for that.
From BBC above - the words could and up to are important btw - always quote the worst case for clickbait ....
Tariffs on clothes of 16% - so what portion of the High Street pricemof clothes represents cost of manufacturer / import 30% ? So a £50 item in shops would see a tariff price rise of £2.40 even at highest possible tariff - note also that's extra tax to Government to pay for schools and hospitals.
Yeah it's not volatility or turbulance it's one way traffic.
Yes at the moment, huge amounts being bet by speculators all against the £. When it snaps back it will move very quickly. The BoE is not intervening as inflation is below target and lower £ helps trade deficit
When it snaps back it will move very quickly.
When do you see this happening?
What conditions would need to be met for it to snap back?
[i]If you're one of those families. If you're just managing. I want to address you directly. I know you're working around the clock, I know you're doing your best, and I know that sometimes, life can be a struggle. [/i] said Saint Theresa.
Not sure how that ties in with price increases across the board, unless they can somehow magically increase incomes at the same time. But anyway.
When they cancel Brexit Graham
If you're one of those families. If you're just managing. I want to [s]address[/s] patronise you directly.
FTFY 😉
one way traffic
Yes, there's definitely a clear downward trend in the value of the pound I think we can all agree that Brexit must be [i]entirely[/i] to blame for this
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I think this lot are mental enough to go for a hard brexit. The simple reason is the brexit slogan take back control.
Our negotiating position with the EU is incredibly weak. Once the wider public realise this, the brexshit brigade who narrowly won the referendum on their promise to take back control will face political disaster.
So the simple way for these total sh*ts to save face is to walk away from any substantive negotiations to avoid such an embarrassing unmasking. Don't think for one moment this isn't happening, the last week demonstrates otherwise. They are determined to push the button and let their successors and us deal with the consequences.
Hard exit is the soft exit for them.
entirely to blame for what is happening today is the actual claim you deliberately mis stated/ignored as you trollalong
Tariffs on clothes of 16% - so what portion of the High Street pricemof clothes represents cost of manufacturer / import 30% ? So a £50 item in shops would see a tariff price rise of £2.40 even at highest possible tariff - note also that's extra tax to Government to pay for schools and hospitals.
Except we have screwed stirling, so we also have to factor in the higher cost of imported goods from (in the case of clothing) the likes of China, Indonesia, Taiwan etc.. In reality its the tarifs plus the increased cost of imported goods, which would mean your £52.40 could easily be £60.
sorry yeah I misquoted him it should have read...
We are going to go through [s]a period[/s] over half a century of volatility, there will be lots of commentary going on and we can expect to see markets being more turbulent over this period and we should prepare for that.
🙄
@zokes well if the definition of internationalist means being able to travel throughout the world I am good with that and thats what I meant, if it means the ability to live and work anywhere without any checks then I am not.
You were the one who (laughably) stated that you were an internationalist. I'm just pointing out that to truly be an internationalist, you'd have to be advocating the removal of barriers to movement / work / trade, not the opposite.
Seriously mate, whatever creative substance you're on, can I have some? I have some minor worldly experience in such things, but I've never come across quite such a potent hallucinogen before...
Our negotiating position with the EU is incredibly weak. Once the wider public realise this, the brexshit brigade who narrowly won the referendum on their promise to take back control will face political disaster.
Unfortunately this may need to involve a credible opposition with a sane alternative policy on the subject. You see any sign of one of those? No... me neither.
Corbyns position, having read the detail of it in Sundays Observer, is even more insane than the Tory's. He's not fussed about remaining in the single market (what with it being an evil capitalist construct, and all that) but he does want to retain freedom of movement.
Well done Jezza. You listened to the message of voters loud and clear there then. You really couldn't make it up.
There are a handful of voices in parliament that don't sound like the've just escaped from an institution and are presently off their meds. And they're coming from some increasingly alarmed Tory backbenchers, and Nick Clegg. Who'd have thought it'd be the likes of Nicky Morgan and Anna Soubry we'd be looking too as the lone voice of sanity
The world has gone mad! We really are well and truly ****ed, aren't we?
Except we have screwed stirling, so we also have to factor in the higher cost of imported goods from (in the case of clothing) the likes of China, Indonesia, Taiwan etc.. In reality its the tarifs plus the increased cost of imported goods, which would mean your £52.40 could easily be £60
Meaning that it may become beneficial to begin onshoring production again, rather than manufacturing abroad.
Another brexit disaster...
Meaning that it may become beneficial to begin onshoring production again, rather than manufacturing abroad.
I won't argue against that in theory. But in practice, unless brits are willing to work for similar wages to those paid to chinese / indian etc. workers, then it's going to result in increased costs to the consumer.
Yes, there's definitely a clear downward trend in the value of the pound I think we can all agree that Brexit must be entirely to blame for this
Indeed, but the precipitous drop beginning around June of this year just might have [i]something[/i] to do with Brexit. No?
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Meaning that it may become beneficial to begin onshoring production again, rather than manufacturing abroad.
Which isn't going to happen.
When are you half-wits going to understand that globalisation isn't going to stop for us just because we have decided to take a break from it.
El-bent - MemberOur negotiating position with the EU is incredibly weak. Once the wider public realise this, the brexshit brigade who narrowly won the referendum on their promise to take back control will face political disaster.
i doubt it, the same tub-thumping press that supported/encouraged them in the past, will not miss any opportunities to blame 'the left', and or foreigners, for anything and everything...
indeed it will be their [EU]fault for punishing us by simply applying the rules of the club and not letting us be special and in it without paying for nor adhering to its rules and those who predicted this for "doing britain down"
Or better still, it will be the fault of the remainers for not cheerleading through the whole fiasco. Whatever, you can bet it won't be the fault of the idiots who campaigned for it, voted for it or implemented it.
I've been feeling pretty fed up for a few days now. My situation is this. I've been living in Norway for almost eight years. I have two kids, a three year old and a 6 months old. My plan before the referendum was to move back to Glasgow in the next year or two.
My girlfriend is Italian and I just don't feel comfortable moving to a country where the government want to put her on a register of foreigners and put my kids on a list of children who were born abroad. I know that's not the case now but it seems that the government and a significant percentage of the population want this to happen.
Who knows, maybe attitudes will change or Scotland will become independent but until then we're either staying put or moving to Italy.
Also, **** you, Theresa May, you ****ing bitch.
“If you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.”
My kids are eligible for Norwegian, Italian, and British passports. They'll never be completely British, Norwegian, or Italian and in your eyes that makes them less than 'proper' British citizens. Well, **** you. My kids are human beings and you'll always be a ****ing scumbag.
Even if some manufacturing restarts in Britain, you don't have any colonies to import ( steal) raw materials.
There surely will be some benefits of the low pound, re exports , as much as people don't like low paid factory work is gotta be better than zero hours contracts and out current joke unemployment numbers, so hopefully the productivity chasm will narrow.
All of this could be easily offset by a hard Brexit and the loss to the taxpayer as from the city, coupled with rising prices for imported clothes, food, oil again bad enough,terrible with WTO tartifs from a hard Brexit.
So hopefully the economy could rebalance in a few years or so , but very tough for those that loose put in the meantime, it's s good job we haven't got 3 delusional clowns in charge of Brexit...
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let me know when the Uk is ready to open a Foxconn factory
My six year old is a big fan of [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/shows/show-me-what-youre-made-of ]Show Me What You're Made Of[/url], which takes British kids and shows them what life is like for third world people working in factories to supply the things that those kids take for granted.
I hadn't realised it was actually careers advice.
Even if some manufacturing restarts in Britain, you don't have any colonies to import ( steal) raw materials.
Do you understand the concept of 'adding value'?
Purchase something, like raw materials, do something to it, sell it for more money. It doesn't rely on stealing anything.
In case you hadn't noticed, there's even a tax predicated on the value of this to the economy.
i doubt it, the same tub-thumping press that supported/encouraged them in the past, will not miss any opportunities to blame 'the left', and or foreigners, for anything and everything...
Depressingly, you are right, but I think the chief cause for what has occurred in this country is the first past the post voting system that keeps electing Governments like this one on only 38% of the vote. This is a conservative party problem that has gotten more than out of hand.
Take something that doesn't cost a lot, do something to it, sell it for more money
Your right. Lets hope the rest of the World doesn't catch on to this idea before we can make something of it.
Oh, hang on...
Do you understand the concept of 'adding value'?
Purchase something, like raw materials, do something to it, sell it for more money. It doesn't rely on stealing anything.
Except the raw materials just went up, the cost of the labour has a fixed minimum and is vastly higher than the places lots of manufacturing takes place. Throw in pissing off and saying goodbye to the largest economy in the world and its not a great strategy. The biggest question is why the UK couldn't have done any of this before?
the first past the post voting system that keeps electing Governments like this one on only 38% of the vote
Hmm, you seam to have overlooked the 12.6% of the vote that voted for UKIP, you know, the party that campaigned for us to leave the EU
38% plus 12.6% makes a majority, no?
Except the raw materials just went up
But they are very often only a tiny proportion of the total cost of production, so it doesn't matter
But they are very often only a tiny proportion of the total cost of production, so it doesn't matter
Other costs being equipment (often supplied by the US - see that GBP/US chart for the problem there), and labour (how do you compete with Bangladesh but still pay your factory workers UK minimum wage?)
Ever done improvements and efficiency ninfan? Everything matters.
How do UK wage costs stack up against the Asian manufacturers?
What about the harder route to export to the rest of the world?
Why is the UK suddenly in a place to become a major manufacturing centre? More importantly if it is what was actually stopping it happen?
(how do you compete with Bangladesh but still pay your factory workers UK minimum wage?)
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[/img]I wouldn't worry, British wages will soon be on a par with Bangladesh. No European safety net, see?
My girlfriend is Italian and I just don't feel comfortable moving to a country where the government want to put her on a register of foreigners and put my kids on a list of children who were born abroad.
most of Europe gathers more data about who is living/ working/ studying where than we would ever consider doing
we also should ban censuses as they collect even more data.....
Hmm, you seam to have overlooked the 12.6% of the vote that voted for UKIP, you know, the party that campaigned for us to leave the EU38% plus 12.6% makes a majority, no?
The party whose votes counted for...one MP. Democracy at its finest.
we also should ban censuses as they collect even more data..
Do you put your name and ni number on your Census form?
Although it is not anonymous, personal data will not be traced back to you in any analysis so there should be very limited issues about privacy.
The reasons behind making lists of foreign workers is a depressingly familiar one. It's sole purpose is to point out which companies are not doing their patriotic duty... That never ends well
The reasons behind making lists of foreign workers is a depressingly familiar one. It's sole purpose is to point out which companies are not doing their patriotic duty... That never ends well
can you name the EU states that don't collect data on foreign workers
The reasons behind making lists of foreign workers is a depressingly familiar one. It's sole purpose is to point out which companies are not doing their patriotic duty... That never ends well
It was being sold yesterday as a means of identifying which companies were employing cheaper, foreign labour. I assume that salaries will be included in the data handed over in order to exlude the talent that is imported at a higher cost.
How many Brits are happy to have their salaries disclosed?
You seem to have the answers big n daft, which are they?
Why would you need such lists?
It was being sold yesterday as a means of identifying which companies were employing cheaper, foreign labour.
Perhaps they couldn't find cheap local labour?
can you name the EU states that don't collect data on foreign workers
Can you name the EU states that [b]publish[/b] lists of foreign workers to shame the businesses employing them?
Or as Ms Rudd awkwardly put it, [i]"a way of nudging people to do better behaviour"[/i].
One idea floating around my head is to go along to the town hall and deregister and disappear from ********.
guess the EU country from a recent thread
Why would you need such lists?
I don't know, maybe to have actual numbers rather than the posttruth "shameful" messaging that seems popular here. With numbers impact can be understood, policies devised,investments made in public services etc etc. Might be better than the "there is no impact/ they all make everyones lives better/ look over there/ you are being xenophobic/ racist trope that seems popular with some
so mike can you name the EU states that don't collect data on foreign workers?
or are the facts inconvenient?
Ffs stop teasing you obviously have the list so cough it up.
As for facts there were plenty, nobody wanted to listen.
guess the EU country from a recent thread
That info isn't made public to shame organisations into employing locals.
Imagine if they did and all the expats had to return to the UK.
Problem solved.
I think not.
Can you name the EU states that publish lists of foreign workers to shame the businesses employing them?
no, naming the workers isn't something I'd advocate anyway, identifying firms that have a significant disproportionate employment of non UK nationals would be of interest. I wouldn't go for a public register but the stats will have uses for policy strategy
Or as Ms Rudd awkwardly put it, "a way of nudging people to do better behaviour".
does she mean she wants more UK nationals to get jobs? if so I agree on the aim not the method. Importing low skilled labour to displace low skilled UK nationals makes no sense as you have a ever more resentful unemployable class languishing on benefits and the black economy
Ffs stop teasing you obviously have the list so cough it up.
you don't lnow, you are just having a knee jerk reaction that we are on the deathslide to some dystopia for collecting less data than a lot of EU countries already collect
As for facts there were plenty, nobody wanted to listen.
does that mean gathering more facts should stop?
as you have a ever more resentful unemployable class languishing on benefits and the black economy
Not a problem, I'm sure our tory back-to-the-1950s govt are actually thinking of bringing back national service at some point. Probably not long after they've created these [s]hitler-youth[/s] army cadet branches within schools and our kids are sufficiently militarised to accept it.
Honestly I've had a quick google it's not getting thrown up obviously so please enlighten us, the gathering of facts is one thing. What the UK government wants to do with them is to shame and bully companies into employing workers based on being british rather than actually satisfying a need. Many of these people are 100% legally working within the UK.
The UK can count the number of work Visa's it issues and who they are issued to, those who are legally able to work in the UK should be able to go about their lives unharassed by an increasingly racist sounding government.
no, naming the workers isn't something I'd advocate anyway, identifying firms that have a significant disproportionate employment of non UK nationals would be of interest. I wouldn't go for a public register but the stats will have uses for policy strategy
Again, by this you're accepting that other countries can identify then toss expats back to the UK.
That's going to solve the problem, how?
no, naming the workers isn't something I'd advocate anyway, identifying firms that have a significant disproportionate employment of non UK nationals would be of interest. I wouldn't go for a public register but the stats will have uses for policy strategy
right, so basically you [i]agree[/i] with everyone else that Amber Rudd's plan to publicly name and shame was not the right way to go?
There is nothing wrong with gathering employment data to inform and guide policy decisions. I don't think anyone is arguing against that.
But that wasn't what Rudd said she wanted to do. She was clear her intention was to name and shame.
That's a very different and much more sinister motive.
does she mean she wants more UK nationals to get jobs? if so I agree on the aim not the method. Importing low skilled labour to displace low skilled UK nationals makes no sense as you have a ever more resentful unemployable class languishing on benefits and the black economy
Why are you assuming imported labour is low skilled or displacing UK jobs?
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Bear in mind that both May and Rudd made a point of sayin:
[i]"Employment is at a record high, and wages are on the up."[/i] (May)
[i]"British businesses have driven the economic recovery in this country, with employment at record levels."[/i] (Rudd)
So where is this jobs crisis?
So where is this jobs crisis?
http://www.ukip.org/people_meps
I think these thinly disguised racists may be out of a job soon. Personally I think they should have resigned on the day of the vote and saved us all some cash.
What the UK government wants to do with them is to shame and bully companies into employing workers based on being british rather than actually satisfying a need. Many of these people are 100% legally working within the UK.
The UK can count the number of work Visa's it issues and who they are issued to, those who are legally able to work in the UK should be able to go about their lives unharassed by an increasingly racist sounding government.
This times a million.
[i](how do you compete with Bangladesh but still pay your factory workers UK minimum wage?)[/i]
Even if you could compete on labour costs you've still got all the other developed world costs that exist which mean that you can't compete in a pure cost world, and have to rely on quality and other metrics.
Importing low skilled labour to displace low skilled UK nationals makes no sense
What about displacing existing immigrants to create jobs for UK nationals? That makes sense to the current government.
big_n_daft - Member
One idea floating around my head is to go along to the town hall and deregister and disappear from ********.
guess the EU country from a recent thread
You fotze..... It is a requirement for anyone resident in Germany to register. My German gf could go along and deregister and the authorities wouldn't know where she was. Same goes for any other person registered... German, EU citizen, Septic etc.
There is a massive sense of schadenfreude on my part,and from friends of mine both in Germany and the UK.
I'm currently in the UK. Last week I was using my UK account. Now it doesn't much matter which I use....
I'm starting to import a product assembled in the UK to the continent. Any gains made by the cheap pound are going to be offset against the increase in material costs.....
The whole scenario is a sucking fambles...
other jobs crisis - the satire industry once at the forefront of what it meant to be British now hard to separate from the real news
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/you-definitely-voted-to-lose-66-billion-a-year-may-tells-britain-20161011115152
THE prime minister has told Britain it knew full well it was voting to shrink its economy between 5 and 10 per cent, so no further debate is required.Theresa May added that mass unemployment, segregation of population by national origin and a nosediving pound were all “pretty much on the ballot” so parliamentary debate was unnecessary.
She continued: “When the British people overwhelmingly voted for Brexit on June 23, they also voted for a new prime minister and entirely new policies never previously mentioned. That’s just common sense.
“They voted to leave the single market, to accelerate the break-up of the UK, and for the construction of a new royal yacht, so any further consultation would be a slap in their patriotic faces.
“All these whiners claiming they did not necessarily choose to crash our economy and never have a foreign holiday again are a mere 48 to 70 per cent of our population so can be cheerfully ignored.
70-year-old Eleanor Shaw added: “I voted for golliwogs not to be racist anymore. Has that happened yet?”
Saw this in The Metro at lunchtime:
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The pound has fallen to a 31 year low and shows no sign of stopping, and our Chancellor is warning of "turbulence" and "fiscal uncertaintity" leading him to scrap the goal of fiscal surplus by 2020.
But somehow folk are now more confident that everything is going to be just fine.
But somehow folk are now more confident that everything is going to be just fine.
They're riding on the wave of optimism that the papers are churning out now that we've "taken back control" and "Britain is going to be Great again"...
...it's going to be one hell of a hangover/comedown.
No one is siliggesting the economy is going to shrink 10% not even Osbourne, IMF, OECD. They did out together some scenarios to show that over 15 years the economy might/would (?) grow by 10% less than it might otherwise. It would still grow.
In other news the euromillions jackpot tonight is up in £ terms
who wants to tell him it's a mash article?
Why bother its closer to a fact than his average 😉
Out of interest (and distrust in standard of journalism in The Metro) I tracked down that Barclaycard report:
https://www.home.barclaycard/insights/consumer-spending-reports/spend-report-q3-2016-consumer-spending.html
Interesting read. And a little more cautious and less jubilant than the Mail-lite would have us believe:
Confidence in the UK economy saw a significant uptick in September with 48% of consumers saying they feel optimistic about the UK economy. This is the highest figure we've seen since our surveys began in 2014. 70% of Brits are feeling confident in their household finances, the highest figure since Q4 2015, highlighting their determination to weather any potential economic storm.
...
The short-term impact of the vote to leave the EU certainly hasn't disheartened consumers. Brits are keeping a cool head about the situation, especially as their wallets have yet to be seriously impacted by the economic environment. Brexit media noise also quietened down in Q3, leaving consumers to enjoy an extended summer. This has resulted in consumers feeling more upbeat about the UK, European and global economies.Despite spend growth remaining buoyant, the future isn't necessarily guaranteed. Rising inflation due to oilprice related base effects and a weaker exchange rate, could dampen household purchasing power. Necessities such as food and energy may rise due to higher import costs, and weakening wage growth might leave consumers feeling squeezed in the near future. Almost half (47%) of consumers are expecting to spend more in the next three months due to the rising cost of goods.
With Black Friday and Christmas on the horizon, consumers are being more considered. 39% of consumers say that they expect to have a more modest Christmas than last year, and the majority (57%) will take advantage of the Black Friday and Cyber Monday discounts.
Looking ahead we can expect consumers to carry on spending until the effects of Brexit become impossible to ignore. At this stage it's too early to predict exactly when, and how severe, that will be.
In other news the euromillions jackpot tonight is up in £ terms
Every cloud.... Although the lining in this case is several million to one....
Another high point in our brave new world:
Pregnant women will be forced to hand over passports before they give birth at NHS hospitals under controversial proposals to clamp down on health tourism.
..
Under the new proposals, women will have to prove their right to use the NHS when their procedure is planned."At booking every patient will need to show a form of photo ID or proof of their right to remain (asylum status, visa, etc)," the October trust board papers say.
"Any patient who is unable to do this will be referred to the trust's overseas patient team for specialist document screening, in liaison with the UK Border Agency and the Home Office," they continue.
Lovely. 😕
who wants to tell him it's a mash article?
I was commenting on your Times front page post Mike
Graham a weak pound doesn't necessarily hurt business confidence, as fourbanger posted the farmer was raising £ prices as he can export more profitably now. Weak £ is great for manufacturing and services