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The article about guy verhofstadt, doesn't surprise me sadly.
While i do not want us to leave the eu i can see there being a split in the future between the northern countries and the med countries in the near future, France has a lot of structural problems too mainly that of the patronage and dominance of certain universities and the restrictions on positions in industry based on that.
It's going to be interesting i just hope not too painful for us until hopefully we can get rid of the lunacy in charge
I've never been a fan of positive discrimination - regardless of who it benefits.
The best person for the job must surely be the only way forward. Where they came from, what sex or how old they are is surely irrelevant.
DrJ btw as you are here this morning I manage money for different clients including pension funds to give people a decent retirement and US college endowments which pay for scholarships and research posts.
We should all carry ID cards, I was in favour when they where proposed under Labour, as posted above we in the UK are very much in the minority in Europe.
TMH I was just pointing out how the US do things. Personally I would give outvwoek to academics very selectively, we need business advice not theory.
Changing tack slightly, I've just seen this on the news:
What a wonderful two fingers up to every knob who voted to leave the EU so the foreigners would go home!
TMH I was just pointing out how the US do things. Personally I would give outvwoek to academics very selectively, we need business advice not theory.
Above all we need facts and evidence-based policy over lies and post truth politics. We are a mile away from it at the moment
We should all carry ID cards
Why?
The answer "other countries do" isn't the correct one, btw.
Open letter from some big businesses this morning asking for Government to keep free trade agreement.
We already have national insurance numbers which are proof of a right to work, though not proof of identity
No they are not proof of a right to work
DrJ btw as you are here this morning I manage money for different clients including pension funds to give people a decent retirement and US college endowments which pay for scholarships and research posts.
Quite. Which is why it may not be clear to you what problems Brexit or the uncertainty around Brexit may create in the physical world.
Nipper that's been posted before and why not ? Politically sensitive work to be carried out by citizens only ? That's exactly the policy in the US.
i) unless your a Chinese nuclear plant builder;
ii) I've no interest in how they do things in the US, holding the US as an example of how to do things is on a par with holding up Singapore as a vision of the future.
So as alpha's link points out, there are those pesky things called "laws" that our government seems to have forgotten about in their tabloid cut 'n paste conference speeches.
I also suspect that as the government has no idea how many EU migrants are in the UK, rounding them up is going to prove difficult.
This link also outlines how much paperwork would be involved, so probably a bad idea anyway
http://m.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/22/brexit_feature
zokes - Still not a customer
We should all carry ID cards
Why?The answer "other countries do" isn't the correct one, btw.
+1
Why?
We should all carry ID cards, I was in favour when they where proposed under Labour, as posted above we in the UK are very much in the minority in Europe.
Why would [i]you[/i] of all people think we should base our laws on what they do in Europe?!?
Personally I'm against mandatory ID cards. It's a pain to have to carry something all the time (e.g. Out on the bike) and physical cards are a dying technology anyway. Much easier to just have citizens chipped. It's a proven technology that works well on dogs.
[img] 
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I always look for comparisons at home and abroad for policies or business decisions. I think compulsory IDs are a necessary for law enforcement.
@Klunk those internet jokers unable to understand what fx rates mean. A pound today is worth a pound. Pound is wirth same against the euro as it was in 2011 and 2013 fwiw. I'll draw you a chart later of USD / euro over past 15 years too
The pound soared when it looked like we were staying in europe. Then it crashed when some ****s voted out.
Makes you think doesn't it.
We should all carry ID cards, I was in favour when they where proposed under Labour, as posted above we in the UK are very much in the minority in Europe.
Is that a bad thing now? 😉
Klunk as our friends in France would say - tres drole et chapeau
To be real and in tune with the current target market that everyone is after - couldnt we have an ID tatoo-ed on?
I think compulsory IDs are a necessary for law enforcement.
"Necessary"?
How have we coped all these centuries with out them then?
I'll draw you a chart later of USD / euro over past 15 years too
Neither is fantastic but GBP definitely has more of a distinct trend to it!
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=USD&view=10Y
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y
couldnt we have an ID tatoo-ed on?
Ideally in the shape of a bulldog with a Union Jack waistcoat 🙂
How much for a false ID card and the subsequent war on them?
Never been asked for my id card in France. And never had it on me anyway.
I don't have one now.
The thing about id cards isn't so much the card itself, it's the broader implication of what it's for and how it will be used. Basically there's no point in an ID card that nobody ever sees. I think it's easier as a middle class middle aged white guy to be sanguine about this, than it is a young person or someone the wrong colour, who already knows what it means to match the description of suspects in the area...
(though ironically, Theresa May is actually against stop and search, because it's so ineffectual. It actually increases crime- 27% of police stops are illegal)
Who was it back there talking about chipping us like frikking dogs?
There was something doing the rounds on fb about a trial going on in Australia at the moment, doing precisely that.
I shall try and find a linky and never read a single post again by anyone who thinks it's a good idea.
[url= http://www.organicandhealthy.org/2016/10/australia-becomes-first-country-to.html ]Here it is, don't even think about it being a good idea[/url]
Never been asked for my id card in France. And never had it on me anyway.
I don't have one now.
My wie carries hers and/or her passport everywhere.
However I think your post shows why carry one is not a big deal and how tye hysteria about having them is just that. Northwind wny not ask all those European countries who have them how they deal with the concerns you raise ?
Graham perhaps we wouod have managed better with them ? We managed ok withoit photo driving licences for years but I am sure all would agree the photo ones are much better
My wie carries hers and/or her passport everywhere.
I don't care if she choses to have her id number and the flag of her country of birth tattooed on her arm, I don't want the same forced on my family, or on anyone else.
I think the photo driving licence/card is shit, it only lasts 10? years before having to be replaced. My paper licence is valid to age 70 or something.
Off topic, but we were only saved from a trip to Vodka Revs as an Ausie mate's driving licence photo ID had "expired".
Harry Hardcore on the door didn't understand how stupid his entry refusal was.
Who was it back there talking about chipping us like frikking dogs?
It was me. I was being facetious. 😀
Graham perhaps we wouod have managed better with them ?
Managed what?
What problem does an ID card solve if you are not required to carry it with you at all times and produce it when requested?
We already have plenty of ways to identify ourselves. Why introduce a single trusted point of failure?
We managed ok withoit photo driving licences for years but I am sure all would agree the photo ones are much better
The photo driving card functions pretty well as an ID card and is useful for boarding flights without a passport, opening bank accounts and visiting military barracks. Can't say I've used it for much else.
Nor have I ever thought "This would be much better if it was a real ID card"
Can't say I've used it for much else.
Collecting parcels from the post office. I think that's definitely worth a massive, expensive, intrusive system that will be a prime target for abuse and exploitation from both internal and external agents and the very criminals it is intended to identify will be able to circumvent through fake or stolen cards anyway.
Oooo oooo oooo and scraping ice from frozen car windscreens if you haven't got a scraper?
jambalaya - Member
I always look for comparisons at home and abroad for policies or business decisions. I think compulsory IDs are a necessary for law enforcement.
Why? That statement really is mystifying
Nipper - thx for the photo, I didn't know how to link - but my tattoo comment was only partly a joke, which you picked up on
The view from HK.
That's a depressing read Nipper
The South China Morning Post, a bastion of independent objective journalism free from Chinese state influenece. Or not. You decide.
Fastest growing economy in G7
Manufacturing up
Record service sector revenues
OECD and IMF both "revise" their pre-Brexit negative forecasts with IMF explicitly saying they where far too pessimistic.
Haters have to hate, whiners and have to whine.
I CBA to get involved in the ID issue, as I am totally suspicious of anyone (especially some one in power) promoting them. But can I pick up on Jamba's throwaway point about the NHS, you do realise that there are no charging mechanisms nor systems nor processes in place for this? The costs will be horrendous, just to 'control' a few possible deviants.
Although seeing the unintended consequences is something, based on your posts, I don't have any confidence in neither you nor the dogmatic lunatics that promote this kind of policy.
OECD and IMF both "revise" their pre-Brexit negative forecasts with IMF…
Yes, they have both revised them DOWNWARDS medium and long term, expecting a worse effect on UK economy then they previously predicted. If you're talking 2016 only, then yes, they have adjusted upwards, for this year only.
https://www.ft.com/content/7418c482-8988-11e6-8cb7-e7ada1d123b1
OECD and IMF both "revise" their pre-Brexit negative forecasts with IMF explicitly saying they where far too pessimistic.
Have they made positive forecasts or just less negative ones?
Jambalaya. There has been no brexit yet though. Just a fall in the pound which is a great way to get higher exports, and encourage buying up of U.K. Assets on the cheap.
I observe that a huge part of the U.K. Economic strategy has been to encourage foreign direct investment with the promise of easy access to the eu market coupled to more flexible employment law and lower taxes. This applies to both services and manufacturing. Jambalaya would you agree with this statement?
The U.K. Relies heavily on the freedom of movement internally in the eu for a great part of it's economic growth in both attracting the best talent from Europe for the city and cheap willing labor for agriculture.
I would love to see the brexit new economic plan but I am not sure if it exists. It is a bit like observing English football. We can talk all we want about how great they are but they will still be rubbish and we will end up slightly embarrassed that they are our team.
And our trade deficit widened in August, I thought the falling pound was supposed to turn us into an exporting powerhouse, as Britannia once again rules the waves?
As we haven't left yet the falling pound is our only real effect of Brexit. That and Nissan etc stopping investment,Oh and Lloyd's shares now being sold at a loss to the taxpayer. Everything else is surely just an indicator of our strong position as a member of the EU. (That's my pro cake and eating it assessment)
We are more Mick Jagger than Paul McCartney.
Paul was in good in the Beatles and good solo.
Did anyone buy Jagger's solo album?
Let's keep the band together and make great music.
As above and
Fastest growing economy in G7
Manufacturing up
Record service sector revenues
Are achieved despite/because of our membership which is hardly surprising when you consider the excellent position that we currently enjoy but are willing to throw away at the altar of xenophobia.
Kimbers - on the trade deficit there are two issues (1) the well known J curve effect and (2) the demand for much of our exports is price inelastic so quantity changes less than price and so total revenue from exports falls.
If you are pay walled out of the FT link I posted, here is the IMF report:
U.K. Growth predictions (and only predictions, these aren't "facts" just opinions) are down for next year (compared to previous reports) but up (compared to previous reports) for 2016.
Still a negative impact on this year's figures because of the vote, and a further downgrading of next year's figures.
Note, a negative effect on our main trading partners as well, this isn't a zero sum game, we're not the only ones to lose out because of the vote (and more importantly, what is yet still to come as we get on with actually leaving the EU).
The pound has been over valued for decades anyway and has probably stifled the growth in our manufacturing and export industries because it has been far cheaper and beneficial for us to import rather than invest. Brexit will cause our whole economy to be re-shaped and in 10 years time it will be very different from the economy we've had in the last 40 years or so. Imports will become more expensive and exports better value for us boosting the business case for any investments we make ourselves. Let's just hope it is better.
Imports will become more expensive and exports better value for us boosting the business case for any investments we make ourselves. Let's just hope it is better.
Really depends on what we need to import to make all these fantastic exports (Iron & Aluminium?)
Then take in the very real brain drain of research funding that is leaving the UK as EU grants and collaboration hit home.
Oxford Uni [s]warning[/s] whining about brexageddon too. https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/worlds-top-ranking-university-fears-job-research-funding-losses-post-brexit/
Haters have to hate, whiners and have to whine.
And liars ... ?
I think compulsory IDs are a necessary for law enforcement.
So countries with compulsory ID have lower crime rates, and those lower rates are causally attributed to the carrying of ID? I'd love to read that study, if you could link to it.
The pound has been over valued for decades anyway and has probably stifled the growth in our manufacturing and export industries
How has this overvaluing been defined? What's the rationale behind that conclusion?
I can tell you what did trash British exports and manufacturing though: Thatcher.
What have those who typically champion the role of the state got to fear about ID cards? Seems a pretty illogical stance.
Fastest growing economy in G7
Manufacturing up
Record service sector revenues
Yep things were going so well. We had it good. What a fantastic reason to upset the apple cart.
I can tell you what did trash British exports and manufacturing though: Thatcher.
Ah, that old chestnut. The omnipowerful Lady T who singlehandlely trashed UK manufacturing. 😉 can we leave the BS to the Bresiteers please. Unless you TOO can provide the links?
What have those who typically champion the role of the state got to fear about ID cards? Seems a pretty illogical stance.
Who are you talking about?
What have those who typically champion the role of the state got to fear about ID cards? Seems a pretty illogical stance.
I'd like to see a lot less state.
Who are you talking about?
People who champion the role of the state but who fear (what the state might do with) ID cards
I'd like to see a lot less state.
So would I
[i]Who are you talking about?[/i]
People who champion the role of the state but who fear (what the state might do with) ID cards
Yes, you said that before. My question was who these people are.
Yes, you said that before.
Indeed. It was clear first time
My question was who these people are.
As above, unless of course you are Amber Rudd and demanding a list of names?
Just remember the state is the one that
Provides the medical to bring people into the world safely
Educates them
Vaccinates them
Builds the roads that lets your staff get to work and home and goods to market
Keeps them healthy
etc etc etc.
I dont have a problem with ID cards other than they are a bit pointless, just duplicate the function of a passport/ driving license, and cost a truck load of money and create more red tape, solution looking for a problem, unless you were to replace all of the above with a single global IDcard/license/passport/cash card etc, but that's only for citizens of the world 😉
I'm also happy for much more state intervention, just done well
Builds the roads that lets your staff get to work and home and goods to market
Really, the gov claims otherwise
In the UK, the development and operation of infrastructure is largely the responsibility of the private sector. The maintenance of operating and safety standards is the responsibility of the various regulators, which operate independently of government.
In the UK, the development and operation of infrastructure is largely the responsibility of the private sector
That'll be why it's potholes-a-gogo on the roads then
😀
If not the SCMP then the NYT:
All of the delusions have run out of material
[i]Yes, you said that before.[/i]
Indeed. It was clear first time
[i]My question was who these people are.[/i]
As above, unless of course you are Amber Rudd and demanding a list of names?
Not names, necessarily, just some reassurance that you aren't worrying your poor head about a category of people that you have invented which doesn't contain any actual people. That would be a bit of a waste of your valuable time, n'est-ce pas?
Vraiment, vous avez raison
Alors ne vous inquiétez pas, j'ai raison aussi
I thought that was written by jamba for a moment. Then I realised it was spelled correctly. Otherwise, good effort.
Bon effort - is what you were looking for
@thm: I'm sorry, I must have missed the bit where we became a manufacturing and resources powerhouse in the 80s and early 90s while she who must not be spoken of was in charge. It happened on her watch, and she had over a decade to do something about it.
Apology accepted. You are not the first to make this mistake and won't be the last.
Ok my French is better than I thought.
I could understand that.
From the Indy
Despite causing an outcry on social media, polling by YouGov conducted last week found that a majority of voters from all parties, except the SNP, would have actually supported the plans to draw up public lists of foreigners.
Disgusting. Welcome to Farage-Trump's Britain.
DrJ why don't you try and understand that Farage and Trump are responding to real issues voters care about but which traditional parties have largely ignored / swept under the carpet
Whether the government publishes such nationality breakdowns they shoukd certainly have the infkrmation. As govt said having nationality / job info allows them to recognise and address skills gaps
.....Because history has taught us that appealing to the lowest level of politics; racism, bigotry, scapegoating of others, leads to terrible things.
DrJ why don't you try and understand that Farage and Trump are responding to real issues voters care about
Because the voters have been manipulated.
It's not a REAL issue, it's a fabricated one.
DrJ why don't you try and understand that Farage and Trump are responding to real issues voters care about but which traditional parties have largely ignored / swept under the carpet
Why don't you try and understand that the issues which actually impact voters lives are not related to immigration, and that pretending otherwise, and using that lie to gather votes, is naked racism.
Whether the government publishes such nationality breakdowns they shoukd certainly have the infkrmation. As govt said having nationality / job info allows them to recognise and address skills gaps
They have that information already from ONS and HMRC.
DrJ why don't you try and understand that Farage and Trump are responding to real issues voters care about but which traditional parties have largely ignored / swept under the carpet
Because they are not. They are inventing false causes and scapegoats - mainly foreigners - to complex issues that need sensible answers not exagerated rhetoric/fluff. They have no solutions.
They are bullies who are full of hot air not substance - do some digging on NF career as an example. He makes Leadsom look conservative in her embellishment.
In the world of posttruth politics its is imperative that they do not get away with this nonsense. Which is why they need to be constantly called out for their xenophobia and racism. Its pure narcissism and the losers will be the poor people who are fooled by them and their snake oil. Its the responsibility of all decent human beings to ensure that this doesnt happen. This is the time for proper statesman not monkeys
In the world of posttruth politics its is imperative that they do not get away with this nonsense
Exactly.
THM + 1