Parliament has let all sides down and history will lay the blame at their collective door. Rather than vote to avoid no deal, the collective thinking is that 60 days is enough to convince the collective EU that its fundamental core values are wrong and to negotiate a fresh deal on top of that. There is simply no common sense to hand.
Literally no member of the public has voted for this situation.
They absolutely did. I don't doubt it isn't what they wanted or what they thought they were voting for but it is exactly what the did vote for. Both at the referendum and the last couple of general elections.
If you could just right down what those people voted for?
(and plenty of research post ge said people voted on a huge range of issues and didn't see brexit as a party political issue hence voted for Brexit supporting parties is just another con from the tories to shout Mandate a bit more)
If you could just right down what those people voted for?
Easy. This, they literally voted for this.
Go back through the first twenty pages of this thread. People in favour of remain usually explained their choice. You'll find that many of those who wanted out made a one word post of "Out". No reason, no logic, no thought process, just "Out". So unlees something radical hapens in the next couple of months they'll get exactly what they wanted, "Out".
There was some Brexiteer peer on 5Live insisting that no jobs would be lost because of Brexit. For them, there will always be someone else to blame. His 'logic' that was because Remainer saboteurs had disrupted the process, it was theirs.
The narrative needs to change. With two months to go, the media needs to make sure that these self-interested arseholes know that they, and only they, get to own this mess. It isn't the EU's fault, it isn't Remain's fault, it's theirs, and theirs alone.
the media needs to make sure that these self-interested arseholes know that they, and only they, get to own this mess
trouble is, big slices of the media are owned and directed by the self-interested arseholes.
BBC now also reporting that parliament doesn't have time to deliver a legal basis for no deal by 29/3, but still the hard liners press the argument that this is the default date.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47063473
Surely "we" should be going to the EU asking for an A50 extension to get that stuff through parliament as a bare minimum, but I guess any public acknowledgement that they can't deliver the 29/3 deadline would weaken their mighty negotiating position.
the media needs to make sure that these self-interested arseholes know that they, and only they, get to own this mess
Maybe, but you seem to misunderstand whose side "the media" are on. Not ours, for sure. The media aren't a source of truth and reason, they peddle the views that are convenient to them and their owners.
You can't argue with stupid - media or brexiteers.
They’ll all be fine, obviously. Your Rees Moggs and Farages. They’ll always have nothing to lose. It’s my mate Rob and the rest of us who’ll be left picking up the pieces
Not all - Jeremy *unt was just on the wireless describing "The Troubles" as a period when there were "bombs going off in Harrods", so the full horrors of a bombing campaign were also visited on the *unt family's trips to buy truffles and champagne.
And in case anyone was in any doubt about how loose *unt's hold on reality is, we have:
Britain’s foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, is expected to urge EU nations to impose sanctions on members of Nicolás Maduro’s inner circle in Venezuela as pressure mounts on the president.
That would be the EU we are leaving, right?
There was some Brexiteer peer on 5Live insisting that no jobs would be lost because of Brexit.
I listened to that. Incredulous. That was 'Lord' Digby Jones. Under normal circumstances you'd just laugh at him. But this is Brexit Britain. The usual rules don't apply.
Listening to him having all the job losses and company relocations pointed out to him, one by one, while he simply replied that this was nothing to do with Brexit, was literally like listening to a flat-earther. But these ****ing clowns have been dictating government policy for the past 2 years.And still are.
As the economy collapses in a no deal scenario, these idiots will still be maintaining that the chaos that engulfs us is nothing to do with Brexit
Its like a Waco-style religious cult
So if we do go out, backwards and on fire, on the 29/3 without all these legal issues sorted does that mean that what would have been crimes, pre brexit, can go on unchecked? (I might be wrong here but isn't our justice system based around 'it's not a crime if there is no law against it/until tested in court'?)
Or is that OK because the unelected Nazi bureaucrats in the EU forced the undemocratic laws on us anyway. Bring back hanging etc
Looks like the magic money tree has been found again.
Maybot has suddenly found a deep concern for the former mining towns and alongside that some money down the back of the sofa.
Maybot has suddenly found a deep concern for the former mining towns
My guess is that there will be enough Labour MPs dumb enough to believe her and vote through her deal. They will be surprised a month later when The Ghoul pretends she was just being ironic, or had her fingers crossed or whatever other lie she finds convenient.
Its like a Waco-style religious cult
Except Koresh was charismatic and had a plan.
Looks like the magic money tree has been found again.
Maybot has suddenly found a deep concern for the former mining towns and alongside that some money down the back of the sofa.
I assume this is just the money they had already previously committed to replace the EU funding that was already helping these areas
Maybot has suddenly found a deep concern for the former mining towns and alongside that some money down the back of the sofa.
If you live in a former mining town I'd be worried.
If you go right back to the inexplicable rise to power of Theresa May she periodically gives a speech about social justice and improving the lives of the disadvantaged.
What she then does is implement a series of policies which piss all over social justice and make the lives of the disadvantaged infinitely worse
I assume this is just the money they had already previously committed to replace the EU funding that was already helping these areas
You spotted that, but dimwits like Melanie Onn and co probably didn't
I find it quite telling that Jezza took his 2 favoured arch Brexiteers, Karie Murphy & Seamus Milne to No10 yesterday and left his trusted Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer out of it. Anyone who thinks Jeremy is not an enthusiastic Brexiteer is deluded.
The will help you, Mefty:
I don't think my point needed reinforcing by a map, but there you go.
Corbyn is just as enthusiastic a Brexiteer as Rees Mogg or IDS. He's just managed to convince a large enough number of the left-leaning, hard-of-thinking otherwise, so as to keep himself at the helm of the student protest group that passes for the labour party nowadays.
You can't help but wonder where we'd be if we'd have actually had a genuine opposition party over the last 3 years, rather than someone who's happy to sit back and nod through everything the Tory party has wanted to do
Anyone heard from him lately? Or is he back on the allotment?
Surely your mate who has been made redundant from JLR just needs to pitch up at work again tomorrow, sit down, do a day's work and then demand to be paid? Apparently JLR will cave in at the last minute because they need him more than he needs them.
Seriously - pass on the STW good vibes to the fella - there's going to be a lot, lot more of this.
Perhaps an image will help you:
See the guy on the left, Mefty, it was he who made the proposal of four zones for Germany (as opposed to three) that was finally adopted. Churchill drew the lines and he was British.
As for Russia later taking over control of the eastern block, they were there already occupying and in control.
You are in the habit of rubbishing people who are right. All a bit Brexie really.
Edit: to find an image STW will load
I feel so proud of our Theresa, captain of our ship SS Brexitania.
Heading off to the iceberg to tell it we're calling its bluff, and we are not going to change course. True British bulldog spirit.
If only the rest of us had nice lifeboats like the 1st class passengers...
I feel so proud of our Theresa, captain of our ship SS Brexitania.
Heading off to the iceberg to tell it we’re calling its bluff, and we are not going to change course. True British bulldog spirit.
If only the rest of us has nice lifeboats like the 1st class passengers…
Oh do please stop with all the doom and gloom
Maybot is adamant she's going to win something over Europe I reckon she's going for higher unemployment than Spain #winning .
(Fake news alert)
I heard that satellite tv will stop working in the case of no deal.
That should get through to the epsilons.
Which again doesn't conflict with anything I said.
They've still done **** all to try & unite the country... From JRM yesterday...
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1090677185051013120
Well Jacob - I can see we're leaving, but we're about as far from uniting as we can be...
The UK voted to leave the EU so we could become an outward-facing, free-trading country while being proud of our European heritage after Brexit
Some did Mr Mogg, others voted to stick it to the globalists, and to reduce the movement of money, people and ideas across our borders. Many voted against the very idea of being European. Some even voted just to give your PM at the time a bloody nose, and as protest vote about their communities being left behind as a result of the policies of his government (and governments before it).
We just need a baseball cap to unite us
What about "Party Like It's 28/3/2018"?
I didn't know this, on the Beeb story on the Jag redundancies, the amount of UK car exports, apparently 53% of export cars go to the EU.
Bets on that being 0% after Brexit?
Any sensible international firm, like those big car companies for instance, will move all European production to Europe.
mickmcd
Oh do please stop with all the doom and gloom...
Actually feeling relieved right now.
Haven't you heard? The SS Brexitannia is unsinkable - held together with Belfast rivets, it is.
That iceberg is going to be in serious trouble soon. Pull up a deckchair, the band is on deck to play us some uplifting tunes. 🙂
Land of Hope and Glory?
Land of Hope and Glory?
Would be an excellent choice - as we'd be floundering at sea having left safe land behind.
Hankering after something now unattainable, something that we have consciously left behind - a perfect metaphor.
if we do go out, backwards and on fire,
Just seen two Apache helicopters heading East over The Monument. Perhaps London is finally making a break for freedom from the provinces.
I especially enjoyed good old Mystic being interviewed on R4 earlier.
Justin Webb repeatedly asked him to be specific about what 'alternative' arrangements' for the NI border might be.
First time around some bluster.
Second time around 'technology' - unspecified of course.
Third time around - I'm not allowed to tell you - if things are suggested on air, they tend to get rejected on air.
What? They do get rejected if they are impossible and immediately understood to be impossible. Otherwise, I'm sure the EU would be all ears.
Face it - the 'alternative arrangements' do not exist , nor does the technology to administer them. Hunt knows it, May knows it, the EU know it.
This is just an exercise in asking for the impossible as many times as we can, to force the EU to say 'no' as many times as possible to help sell the lie that No Deal is because of EU intransigence.
Bets on that being 0% after Brexit?
Nah McLaren still have off shore millionaires to please
That iceberg is going to be in serious trouble
Nah the newspapers can't find a name for it like thundersnow .....snowbomb...etc etc
Though I'm sure some of us have already named it.
Morgan spokesman on BBC talking about how they are planning to mitigate Brexit problems… I think it was supposed to be an attempt to "balance" all the warnings from the larger car manufacturers… he didn't really play ball though… quite equivocal… but there was a bit of "just get on with it" from him… so that'll please those that would rather "rip the plaster off" (and expose an open wound).
nickjb
They absolutely did. I don’t doubt it isn’t what they wanted or what they thought they were voting for but it is exactly what the did vote for. Both at the referendum and the last couple of general elections.
There has never been a vote for this. Not only has nobody ever voted for it, nobody has ever had an opportunity to vote for it.
It is absurd to claim that someone voted for an outcome, if it's not what was offered. If you vote for a cheese sandwich and someone brings you a dead cat, you still voted for cheese. I mean, pretty much everything about brexit is absurd but this is actually above averagely daft.
still the hard liners press the argument that this is the default date.
But it is. By force of law, unless Parliament legislates to revoke Article 50, we leave with no deal on the 29th. That's what is so terrifying. Given that they have achieved absolutely nothing in 2.5 years, what is the chance of them a) actually agreeing to do something which all sides have said cannot be done and then b) actually getting their shit together to get the law passed in parliament?
I can't see any realistic way to get to any outcome other than no deal.
