Well apart from the fact that Brexit will be over and done so we won’t have to hear about it anymore 🙂
if you dont believe the abject stupidity of some then watch this
she says she was only trying to put a positive spin on it…the daft cow
”
That is pretty much unbelievable !!!!!
I’m with Cougar on the whole handing them absolute power thing, it sets the stage up for future actors to do carte Blanche.
On the exchange rate issue:
https://www.onvista.de/devisen/Euro-Pfund-EUR-GBP
Click on 10 year then MAX and you'll seen that the pound is within its 20-year trading range. It's still trading at hasn't-happened-yet levels.
Norway is a well-managed oil state, Sweden is a working version of France, Denmark is a puritan version of Germany, Finland is a forest with lakes. The UK is more and more America bis., and not in a good way.
A leaked poll shows that Labour would lose votes if they try to stop Brexit.
Slightly misleading, they would lose 11% of current labour voters, but gain 9% of current tory voters said they would switch to labour, and 30-40% of liberal and green voters. That is from a sample of only 2000, and doesn't go into "real" numbers, but I would suggest if those figures were extrapolated to the voting population it would be a net gain, or at least nuetral.
Slightly misleading, they would lose 11% of current labour voters, but gain 9% of current tory voters said they would switch to labour, and 30-40% of liberal and green voters. That is from a sample of only 2000, and doesn’t go into “real” numbers, but I would suggest if those figures were extrapolated to the voting population it would be a net gain, or at least nuetral.
No way of knowing until an actual election and only important in a small number of constituencies that are close. Won't make much difference in my 65% Tory, 20% Labour constituency will it.
The key point is they can't actually stop Brexit as they haven't been asked. If they are asked and stop it another election could be 3 years away where it would be forgotten by a lot of the sort of people who switch at the drop of a hat.
It says that overall, a quarter would be more likely to vote Labour and a third less likely. The rest don't know.
No way of knowing until an actual election and only important in a small number of constituencies that are close
Not only that but depending on where those specific shifts are, thanks to FPtP there is no reason you can't secure a majority in the house on a lower % of votes than not only before but also lower than the opposition in the same election
I wish politicians would try to convince me what they believe is correct, rather than that we agree when we don’t. Policy set by focus groups is not real policy, just vote chasing.
I wish politicians would try to convince me what they believe is correct
The problem with this whole process is that its ruthlessly exposed the problem that caused the whole thing in the first place.... just how utterly detatched Westminster is from the country as a whole
May hasn't given a stuff about reaching out to anyone, or explaining or justifying what she's doing. All that has been priority is holding the Tory party together. And every statement by most Tory MPs is them just lining up their leadership bids.
The Labour party is little btetter, with Corbyn and his cabal plotting how to get into government, at whatever cost with little interest in the opinions of their own MP's, party members, and certainly not the public.
Whats best for the country's future seems of very little consequence to any of them
Its more like some dysfunctional medievel court than a modern democracy. And this is what a lot of Brexit voters are kicking against. A fact that seems to have gone completely unnoticed in the Westmister bubble
I've posted this a couple of pages earlier, but its an interesting take from Fintan O'Toole on this being the death throws of this present form of Parliametary democracy
Apart from some awful vocal brexit break-beats - a really decent intellectual (non-gammon) look at the future of Labour/Brexit/EU future situation
A serious upgrade over Question time.
Thoughts?
at whatever cost with little interest in the opinions of their own MP’s, party members,and certainly not the public.
Perhaps you should try rereading the comments above yours particularly with reference to the likelihood of peoples opinion of labour being influenced by the stance they take.
I do find it entertaining after all the frothing and ranting about the labour membership not being important compared to the voters as a whole suddenly it gets reversed.
Its almost like there is an agenda.
A fact that seems to have gone completely unnoticed in the Westmister bubble
The problem is when labour did propose policies to deal with it all the "moderates" ranted and raved and said how it was more important to chase the "centrists" voters.
Cheers will have a listen
Meanwhile the reality of what brexit will bring us...
With the polls suggesting labour can't win over brexit, I can expect a Tory government for a long time
The QT audience in Derby a once labour heartland rapturously applauding a hard right, deregulator wet dream come true, No Deal brexit, just shows the impossibility of this.
Any sort of socialist brexit looks farther away than ever
A serious upgrade over Question time.
Thoughts?
Is it any different to the fantasy we commented on a couple of pages back? Is it even possible if you don't have a 100 seat solid labour majority?
Mike - why be so dismissive?
The debate in question is much greater than leave or stay, or even a sarcastic comment.
All that's happening is we all end up (being quite left on here)is diluting the idea of social justice and equality and we let the Tories trample over everything.
The QT audience in Derby a once labour heartland rapturously applauding a hard right No Deal brexit, deregulation wet dream come true
That was a terrible session.
The poll comments were completely out of order.
But yeah, reality.
It won't just be the human rights act. That'll just be the start. If the Tory's get away with this, then free from the EU its going to be open season on all sorts of things we presently take for granted.
Workers rights? Think they're going to last long?
Environmental regulations? They'll be straight out of the window.
This whole thing is a power grab by the far right. I'm sure that behind the scenes they're already got planned the timetable for tearing up the entire post-war settlement
This whole thing is a power grab by the far right. I’m sure that behind the scenes they’re already got planned the timetable for tearing up the entire post-war settlement
Agreed.
This was either a masterstroke or pot luck by the Tories.
I don't know which.
Mike – why be so dismissive?
The debate in question is much greater than leave or stay, or even a sarcastic comment.
Because
a) we did this one before
B) unless you get a labour majority who backs this from day 1 it's a pure fantasy.
C) are Labour even proposing this or is it not even close to the table?
In the last look at her ideas it was shown there is still a heap of stuff the UK government can do while being in the eu to address issues. That has a much better chance of happening than a blow it up and gamble approach.
Well apart from the fact that Brexit will be over and done so we won’t have to hear about it anymore
Like hell it will.
I wish!
Whatever happens on March 29th is just the end of the beginning.
This has totally split the nation to such a degree that this will total dominate the agenda for the next decade, at least.
Remember, we’re all just guessing as to what the actual fallout from this will be.
And the politicians are fighting like rats in a sack for a reason. They all want the ‘opportunity’ to shape the post-Brexit agenda in their own image
This isn’t even the end of chapter one
This has totally split the nation to such a degree that this will total dominate the agenda for the next decade, at least.
Most people were not that bothered before the referendum and those same people won't be bothered after a few years. The people that are really into it will just go back to UKIP.
I’d love that to be the case but that’s hopelessly wishful thinking.
This has unleashed all kinds of really toxic shit that won’t simply be put back in its box
We don’t know what’s going to happen, but is guaranteed is that it will be an upheaval like we’ve never seen in our lifetimes, and the law of unintended consequences will kick in big time
I can see us in a situation where two years down the line the agenda is being dominated by something that nobody has even considered yet.
It’s Pandora’s box is Brexit.
I Never really got why people are so anti ECHR.
It secures, first and foremost, the right to life, a fair trial, freedom of expression, thought, conscience and religion, but also respect for private and family life and the protection of property. It prohibits torture, degrading treatment, forced labour, unlawful detention and discrimination "in the enjoyment of the rights and freedoms" it guarantees.
I really can’t see that as being a bad thing and I find it strange why people are so against it.
You’re looking for logic where there isn’t any.
The Tory right probably want rid of it so they can bring back hanging
I really can’t see that as being a bad thing and I find it strange why people are so against it.
Because generally home secs want to do things that are popular with right wingers which the rest of us object to, it's framed as curtailing our parliament. A lot of people struggle to accept that you can't just pick and choose your laws and how to apply them.
No. Those who have the least to lose from brexit (arguably the bulk of the 52%) may not be that bothered, other than by a continuing shit deal out of life. But hey, they're used to that. The 48% who voted to remain, are unlikely to just sit back and accept an enforced drop in their quality of life and will continue to press for a reversal of the decision. It will not just go away. As above, the fall out will continue for decades....
Ok serious question to the farmers out there,what happens in 8 weeks when there’s no more cheques from the EU, Is everything already in place or are you none the wiser?
Ok serious question to the farmers out there,what happens in 8 weeks when there’s no more cheques from the EU, Is everything already in place or are you none the wiser?
Same as everybody else nobody knows. My dad has been writing to his local MP who is a brexit loon, plenty here know leave is a bad thing.
Ok serious question to the farmers out there,what happens in 8 weeks when there’s no more cheques from the EU, Is everything already in place or are you none the wiser?
Haha, seriously? No one has the faintest idea and no plan B. Gove has made vague assurances that the current system will continue till 2020 at least, just being paid by UK direct and not via the EU. There has been some pretty heavy consultation exercises by the devolved administrations (farming policy is a devolved issue) but not heard back from the Welsh Assembly what the results of that were. Luckily the basic payments are made in December so there wouldn't be anything to expect for a good 8 months so hopefully enough time for a stop-gap policy to be implemented. A bigger issue will be a collapse of exports as a result of WTO tariffs (may be offset to an extent if the pound tanks further making exports cheaper!). The other big worry is that developing nations can't afford UK ag produce prices but can sell us cheaper food in return for stuff they can't yet produce like hi-tech, pharma, and financial services. Can anyone guess what the basis of any future trade deals are going to be and which UK industry is likely to lose out the most? But never mind, at least we can re-wild the British countryside and all those rich bankers can come and buy themselves a nice abandoned farm in the countryside !
but is guaranteed is that it will be an upheaval like we’ve never seen in our lifetimes
I’m not sure I’m thinking prices will rise,wages drop and increase in unemployment which seems pretty much a repeat of the 70’ and 80’s.
This was either a masterstroke or pot luck by the Tories.
I don’t know which.
You're joking surely? Why on Earth do you think the far right want us out? It's certainly not for the benefit of the common man.
Can anyone guess what the basis of any future trade deals are going to be and which UK industry is likely to lose out the most? But never mind, at least we can re-wild the British countryside and all those rich bankers can come and buy themselves a nice abandoned farm in the countryside !
..and the rest of us can feast heartily on chlorinated chicken.
You’re joking surely?
I think it was more about the damage to Labour.
Which I think is a happy chance. Although something the hard right wont be upset about. That said they would be happy enough to destroy the tories as well and do as much damage across the board as possible. Whilst I wasnt convinced by the Shock doctrine orginally the idea of disaster capitalism does seem more and more supported over time.
You know that Rees Mogg’s dad was the leading advocate of Disaster Capitalism, right?
For the last ten years the Tory’s have followed the Shock Doctine as a blueprint. All we need for the full set is the civil disorder and Marshall Law and troops on the streets
Give it 6 months
Never waste a good crisis! Especially one you manufactured
Liz Kershaw. I always switched her off as I thought she was singularly unsuited to her role. Now I have a reason to actively dislike her. Every cloud....
I think we can all assume that Liz Kershaw has ‘lost her audience’
She’s clearly an absolute ***ing moron .. and Brexit supporter.
There’s a pattern emerging
ou know that Rees Mogg’s dad was the leading advocate of Disaster Capitalism, right?
Yup. Like I said the theory makes more and more sense as time goes on.
For the last ten years the Tory’s have followed the Shock Doctine as a blueprint.
Some tories not all. Some have tried to keep to good old fashioned tory traits. Sadly though the hard right seem to be winning.
Marshall Law and troops on the streets
Generally they try to stay short of that. Not out of any niceness but just because although massive profits can be realise so can massive losses including, for any not clever enough not to live in the country they are doing over, their lives.
DEFRA models are 25% of farmers go bust, Savilles are predicting farm land prices crashing, my employer has issued instructions to watch customers and credit terms, and is tightening expenditure.
What you have to remember is that a large proportion of farm inputs are imported. soya, chems etc.
Car bomb in Derry tonight.
Remember them?
I really miss sectarian violence and paramilitary militias. It was brilliant! Glad to see it making a comeback
Nothing to do with Brexit, obviously. Just coincidence that something we’ve not seen for twenty years reappears when the government doesn’t appear to GAF about the good Friday agreement and is being dictated to by the DUP
Can’t wait til next year, post-Brexit when they start bombing Manchester again
At least the minister for Northern Ireland is someone who knows the subject very well........... Or is she?
Generally they try to stay short of that. Not out of any niceness but just because although massive profits can be realise so can massive losses including, for any not clever enough not to live in the country they are doing over, their lives.
Also why use the army if you have shares in g4s...
Can’t wait til next year, post-Brexit when they start bombing Manchester again
But the muslims are the bad guys now so not as much to worry about.
Also why use the army if you have shares in g4s…
That’s what it is all about as far as the exploiters who actually know what they are doing are concerned.
The key is to tender for the work first, though. Then trouser the cash (very generously) paid up front before it becomes blindingly obvious you cannot actually do the job. Then, when presented with a choice of anarchy on the streets or using the army (and public money), it is back to you - the public - to pay for it. No penalties, of course, and the money will be offshore approximately five seconds after the initial payment.
Quite how we are going to afford £350m a week for the NHS with all this going on is beyond me.
Trouble with this thread is every time I read replies to my question on farming I want to go WTF, there’s only so many you can give.
The gov could have at least got that nailed down.
Interesting that poll that shows that with the deaths of the leavers and the ability to vote that remain would be the flavour. I think they are right to hammer home that it’s the young people who are going to live with it.
The trouble is that there is no one concerted Remain campaigner.