It looks like we are at an impasse. 😀
we ?
At least two of his multiple personalities, most likely.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Streets-Investment-Profits-World/dp/067162735X
Always worth remembering Rees-Moggs Dads book.
El-Bent, who are "they"? The Jews?
Number one rule for wealth protection derives from this
Where a government has come into power through some form of popular vote... the guerrilla outbreak cannot be promoted, since the possibilities of peaceful struggle have not yet been exhausted. - Che Guevara
Thus, the rule goes - don't erode trust in government completely and fully.
Your conspiratorial rhetoric is hilariously more likely to be the cause of us getting a dictatorship. A bunch of half arsed ERG or tea party ****waffles aren't capable of doing that though, what it takes are people on both ends of the political spectrum telling the voters that someone is out to get them
It looks like we are at an impasse.
Yep despite over 2 years to try, knowing the rules before the start and all that the brexiteers have still failed to present even a vaguely sensible option that will appeal to a fraction of the population, if only somebody could have seen this coming
we ?
Yes, UK & EU.
😀
Are you still talking about his spin document, or the actual legal advice now out?
Yes, dont agree with your contentions at all, advice says provision otiose or ineffective. Uncomfortable for all, especially Ireland.
So essentially Leave broke the law and lied all to get us to this crappola. Well played. So chances of people being sensible and calling it all off?
Uncomfortable for all, especially Ireland.
Well probably more uncomfortable for the UK.....You can see why they didn't want to publish it all. It's a complete balls up on all fronts.
There is basically 1 deal on offer, the terms of it are now clear and the implications of it are too.
Nobody wants that deal.
Nobody wants that deal.
Here's the thing, come next year, if we Leave, it will be on terms only a small proportion of the population, and of MPs, can countenance. This has long been the case. The path towards this exit was clear a long time ago. MPs, scared of being called undemocrats by the Media, allowed the two party leaders to whip them to back laws that enable the government to leave with either a bad deal, or no deal, before either were explored and explained. Now we're heading for a failure of democracy, with the country taking a path with little to no backing in the country at large, or in parliament.
Looking back its easy to see the signs of this "approach" to managing the electorate. Social media and Facebook in particular have facilitated this (knowingly) Zuckerbergs wealth is little more than protection money. If you wrote a book back in 2005 using all this as a premise no one would have taken it seriously.
We have gone off the cliff into a whole new level of chaos and misery. What little democracy we had was bought and sold to the chaos merchants.
George Bush's funeral today shows how far the right wing of the Republican party has taken contol when he was viewed almost as a liberal. Tony Blair sounds like the voice of reason.
I track other blogs and the level of open racism, islamaphobia and sheer utter hatred for immigrants the EU and remainers is horrific. Half this country hates with a passion the other half. The sheer volume of people who have had their heads ****ed with by Facebook, Arron Banks, Farage, Tommy Robinson, Cambridge Analytica is staggering. Even the BBC only sticks Brexit nutters on the TV Tim Wetherspoon now has specials? Farage, JRM et al dominate the news.
This will get much worse.
We need to make Facebook history for starters
El-Bent, who are “they”? The Jews?
Funny guy.
Thus, the rule goes – don’t erode trust in government completely and fully.
Quoting a yesterday man, Che.
A bunch of half arsed ERG or tea party ****waffles aren’t capable of doing that though
The tea party succeeded. While the ERG won't succeed this time, don't forget about the "ordinary torys" who have been eroding the state apparatus for the last 40 or so years.
We need to make Facebook history for starters
Symptom not the problem there. Just need to work out how to regulate and run it better.
On R4 now...
John Humphreys: “...but Prime Minister, you just keep repeating the same mantra.”
The Maybot: “No I don’t keep repeating the same mantra. As I said before...”
We need to make Facebook history for starters
You can't simply ban stuff like this that's already in use. We're all used to social media now and we depend on it for a lot of social contact with people who aren't nearby. You might need to place restrictions on them though.
Maybot on radio 4 trying to tell everyone that black is white and that somehow her deal means ‘taking back control’ when it clearly doesn’t mean anything of the sort.
I’d love to see a bit of honesty and for her to state the bleeding obvious. Magic Unicorns don’t exist and the half-baked idea that you can leave the EU but retain the benefits was always bollocks, so shall we just forget the whole thing?
The phrase ‘Frustrating Brexit’ has clearly been programmed in this morning
Sounds like she is positioning herself for a quick exit when her deal is voted down. However this would be rather out of character for her.
Also notable that she said "no brexit at all" more times in that interview than anyone said in the first two years post referendum.
I wonder if her programmer intended for there to be a double meaning in the phrase "frustrating Brexit" because yes, it is.
And BTW it won't take an act of parliament to revoke A50, just the installation of a PM who is prepared to take that step
I’d love to see a bit of honesty and for her to state the bleeding obvious.
She's still saying that Brexit will be good for us, despite there being not a shred of evidence to support this claim.
However this would be rather out of character for her.
Yep given her track record being able to successfully execute a plan would be a surprise to say the least.
A group of friends go out every saturday night for a meal, to the same restaurant. Over the years, the service has got worse, the menu rarely changes but still they keep going. And one day some of the friends suggest that they give the new restaurant in town a go. They have a vote, and although it's close the friends agree they'll go to the new place.
But when they get there and look inside, it's not what they thought. The menu isn't to their taste, it's a lot more expensive than they imagined, and in the back they can see the chef scratching his arse with his stirring spoon.
And someone pipes up - I'm not so sure about this. We don't like the food, it's going to cost us more, and we're all likely to have the shits because of the chef.
Do you
a/ listen to the 2 most vocal members of your group and eat there despite the problems, because you said you would before you knew anything about it
b/ have a show of hands to see if the consensus is still to give it a go
c/ go back to the old place but tell the owner that there are some things you aren't happy about
How is that undemocratic?
People are saying that a second referendum is betraying the will of the people, when it literally IS the will of the people. WTF?
I think someone should use theotherjonv's example in the commons during today's debate.
That article about Democracy being eroded by powerful billionaires and the remark about "if someone had written a book based on all this no-one would believe it"...
People are saying that a second referendum is betraying the will of the people, when it literally IS the will of the people. WTF?
"Enemies of the State". All of us.
Is there time for a second referendum?
Is there time for a second referendum?
There will always be time for the UK to stay in the EU. There was never enough time for Brexit - the EU knew this. They took a look at Davies and his team and knew they'd **** it up even if they'd been given 4 years to sort it.
Is there time for a second referendum?
Frankly there is no need for one. The government need to MTFU and do their "sovereign" duty.
Radio 4 just had a vox Pop with some people from Bedford, utterly depressing, people just parroting the lines fed to them by Mogg & Johnson about control, bullying EU , just walk away...
The Brexiteers promised they would take back control.
But we always had control, they just chose not to use it.
Freedom of movement was never free, without a job we could send you back home after 6mths, but we couldn't because Tories slashed border staff & as Home Sec May ended exit checks.
Industry still needs workers, but Tories privatised apprenticeships provider: LearnDirect now rated Inadequate by Ofsted & apprenticeships numbers have collapsed.
Likewise they removed nurses training bursaries.
We want control of our streets but they've cut 10s of 1000s of police & youth centres.
£bns taken from councils.
Austerity was always about the right wing dream of a small state, but the last 8 years has shown that with a small state we lose control.
Scapegoating the EU was the easy answer, crying 'bullying' when they tell us we can't keep the benefits of membership after we leave is the easy answer.
Depressing that so many people lap it up.
We always had control, but austerity, not EU membership took it away from us.
This page has started with some good stuff! Molgrips nails it for me: all this "delivering the will of the people" tosh is ignoring the fact that the will of the people has changed, as well as there being new people in the mix now, who either weren't allowed or weren't motivated to voice it in 2016, but probably would now.
Especially now that at least some of us now know that all of the things that we were annoyed at were within our gift to change anyway, and nothing to do with the "shackles of the EU" ..
that the will of the people has changed,
Has it ?
Only one way to find that out really
Because the press are a bit meh
The news seems to be faked up
If it comes back at 52 48 in another 2nd ref wtf then
When can we start rioting?
Mick - agreed. The will of many individuals has changed, or they now feel strongly enough to bother to vote: whether that amounts to a change in the collective will can only be shown through another referendum...
Binners, as an extremely moderate, quite Liberal and very conformist person, even I feel almost ready to join you!
Actually the will of relatively few people has changed, and some have changed from remain to leave. I wouldn't be at all confident of a 2nd ref turning out ok and if not we are even more stuffed. My hope is that talk of a ref is just a stepping stone on the way to parliament doing its job.
Binners, the rioting may have to wait for summer, we don't have the same level of commitment as the french. Fortunately brexit will be delayed until then, if it's not been formally cancelled...
I wouldn’t be at all confident of a 2nd ref turning out ok
Maybe not but I still don't see what's undemocratic about asking people now they know what Leave really means, as opposed to the crap that was spouted (by both sides) last time.
If we then subsequently ratify that first vote then I still wouldn't be happy, but I'd have a far better reason to accept it as a democratic decision.
If we do end up in a Corbyn government, which obviously brexiteers hate. Are they to blame for it? In my thinking if we do end up with Corby in power, its entirely their fault
Actually the will of relatively few people has changed, and some have changed from remain to leave. I wouldn’t be at all confident of a 2nd ref turning out ok and if not we are even more stuffed. My hope is that talk of a ref is just a stepping stone on the way to parliament doing its job.
the biggest indicator as to how much opinion has changed is the absolute fear in the leaver camp about asking the public any kind of question. Everyone will blame polls etc but they have been improving and consistent.
the biggest indicator as to how much opinion has changed is the absolute fear in the leaver camp about asking the public any kind of question
Not sure that says much. Given the closeness last time they wouldnt have wanted another vote the next day.
Leavers may be loud but they still only have one vote. The fact that leavers have died can't be changed.
The Tory party now gets more funding from dead people than live ones.
Quoting a yesterday man, Che.
The rules for protecting your assets haven't changed, stick your money in a politically stable country where revolution is unlikely. The rules of insurgency and revolution have not changed. The fact that they think that they can profit in the long term from chaos is a symptom of their privileged upbringing where they have never heard the sounds of gunshots in the street. They have forgotten the number one rule of staying rich, keep your masses happy. If they do carry on down that path, it will only end up with them being strung up naked from a petrol station like Mussolini.
The problem with your rhetoric though El-Bent is that it is exactly the same rhetoric used by the other side, eg Brexiteers - the EU and the new world order are out to get them.
Your rhetoric, just as there's, will lead to populist authoritarianism. History has been here before, you are repeating the exact same mistakes that the left did in the early 20th century. Everything about your rhetoric is the same as the propaganda that the Spanish and German communists were using - I assume you would dismiss the historical analysis of these movements as well, out of ignorance?
Your thinking is just another example of how we've somehow, in the space of a few short years, rewound history to the 30's.
The rules for protecting your assets haven’t changed, stick your money in a politically a stable country where revolution is unlikely.
Have you not noticed how the brexit elite have rather loose connections to the UK and seem to be busy getting boltholes elsewhere? High risk can give high returns and so as long as you keep plenty of reserves back and make sure you dont have to live where you are shitting then it can be profitable enough.