Odds of 2nd ref about 8/5 according to the internet.
Is reading stuff on the internet how we got here?
Probably listening to the BBC was just as bad...
Is reading stuff on the internet how we got here?
No problem reading stuff if you can determine if it's a good source or not, in fact how we got here was down to a lot of carefully calculated tricks and interference but people don't like to hear about that too much....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46419790
And some battle lines being drawn here, publish the legal advice or else.
Something tells me I can see this whole mess ending up in court. Irony will be if it's the next leader of the tories appealing to the European Courts to let brexit happen
Javid has just said that rumours of the vote on May's deal being postponed are untrue......
So looks like it will be then squeezed in just b4 Xmas then , with threat of no holidays for MPs until it's agreed ?
with threat of no holidays for MPs until it’s agreed ?
or the threat of no Christmas pudding?
Will the government last long enough for the brexit vote ?
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But they’re advocating state ownership.
We already have state ownership. They're jut suggesting it should be this state. It's weird how having your railways owned by the french, dutch and germans is capitalist but having them owned by the british government is Hard Left Madness.
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The rail infrastructure is uk state owned, its the train companies that own the trains that are put out to tender to put trains on the tracks, arriva, virgin (was) etc.
I think that's maybe the problem, there's no overall oversight..
I think that’s maybe the problem, there’s no overall oversight..
British rail was not a bastion of reliability and wonder.... I do not remember them any more fondly than the current operators
It’s weird how having your railways owned by the french, dutch and germans is capitalist but having them owned by the british government is Hard Left Madness.
Not really - presumably the foreign governments are treated like private paying investors, and have paid money for their share just like anyone else.
the argument can be made however that we can use the 'best practices*' of modern day network operations - we don't have to go back to the BR ways. Just have the profitability benefiting the country, not shareholders.
* yeah, I know......
Is there the smell of a GE being called in the next week?
I've been half expecting the govt to duck out of the vote in some way, but it seems pretty difficult now they've actually starting debating it...
molgrips, not sure you understand this share ownership thing....the people who own the shares actually own the company, that's what the shares are.
Is there the smell of a GE being called in the next week?
Well, May must have done that weak This Morning appearance for some reason… she may well be testing the waters for, and getting a head start in, a General Election campaign. If she does call the firing pistol… she is very likely the find her Party wanting her out of the way… fast. No time for a full leadership election, but they could for a coronation by MPs (which is how she got the job), but that would require someone the MPs can get behind…
Anyway, the legal advice "summary" is out… on Leaving the EU, which as a member state we have the unilateral right to do, we are looking to lock ourselves into a new arrangement with the EU that we can not leave unilaterally, and in which the EU has complete control over our trade policy for the whole of the UK, and all Single Market regulations for NI.
TAKE BACK CONTROL
Who does May think will back this?
Don't forget 40% of the population voted for this shower last time round...
Is there the smell of a GE being called in the next week?
Would that not be a betrayal of democracy? We only voted last year.
I expect that the next 5 days grandstanding - please let’s not demean ourselves by calling it a debate - will plumb new depths of petty, jingoistic nationalism, toxic xenophobia and truly staggering levels of ignorance, disinformation and lies
It would be confusing, I'm sure back in '97 we had an election, was that not the will of the people
the argument can be made however that we can use the ‘best practices*’ of modern day network operations
Indeed... I assume all government waste has already been eliminated and we are demonstrating this in Whitehall and in all council offices around the country. This is why our waste management and roads are the envy to the western world
What binners said. The 'debate' will be meaningless.
Also a GE isn't a betrayal of democracy, its a sign of a government that's no longer functional (in this context). It's a stalemate, a bit like the referendum..
The county needs a functional government and the current government is paralysed by the political situation.
Labour would be paralysed too if they get in, so it will be interesting to see what they do as they seem keen to get in but not so keen in being transparent.
That said we are in uncharted waters, hopefully May's deal won't make it through the commons and whoever comes in next will have to be a bit more realistic..
Indeed… I assume all business waste has already been eliminated and we are demonstrating this in
I see plenty of waste in any big organisation, one today had a poster in the lift persuading staff to avoid unnecessary travel and wasting cash on that sort of stuff.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42666275
Another fine example from Carillion as to how private business is infallible....
It's a complete BS position to demand perfection from one side while ignoring incompetence on the other
It’s a complete BS position to demand perfection from one side while ignoring incompetence on the other
Both Labour and Conservative only seem to be offering incompetence though.
If Labour get in they will face exactly the same stalemate in parliament and in public, neither seem to be capable of presenting a real alternative.
At least not one they are being open and honest about!
I have to say context is key there isn't it, you picked a statement I posted talking about something very different and claimed it was addressing something else... Well done have a gold star
, which is important as it creates an incentive for both parties to come to an agreement, which has been lacking under the Article 50.
The EU have made their offer, the UK needs to work that out and accept the shit position or let the government implode. What we have here is a brexit that is unpalatable to the brexiters!! Oh the ****ing irony
But the UK would not have to contribute to the budget
No need. The EU can sell access to the UK market to third countries in future, or revised, trade agreements, without having to insist on the UK getting reciprocal access to the third countries' markets. Plenty of opportunities for the EU to take advantage. We have no say in future trade deals as regards the whole of the UK, or Single Market rules as regards NI. We are giving them control.
I have to say context is key there isn’t it, you picked a statement I posted talking about something very different and claimed it was addressing something else… Well done have a gold star
I wasn't targeting anyone with my post, it was just a handy example.
I'm completely in awe of how messed up things have become, and I don't doubt you are too. No offence indended.
I think the point I was badly making is we have a choice between..
A) Economic and social suicide
B) remain as we are
C) unobtainuim
Every one seems to think C) is an option even though it doesn't exist.
The EU can sell access to the UK market to third countries in future, or revised, trade agreements, without having to insisting on the UK getting reciprocal access to the third countries’ markets.
I don't think that is correct, see para 49 of the Attorney General's document published today.
Contempt of Parliament proceeding will be first item of business tomorrow morning.
This is getting interesting.
It also looks like the Article 50 case in the European courts will be announced tomorrow.
I don’t think that is correct, see para 49 of the Attorney General’s document published today.
Para 49 is irrelevant to my point. That is about EU member status obligations expiring after we leave transition… not about our NEW obligations to follow external tariff and trade rules set by the EU on our behalf for the shared customs area that they will control, but we will be in, as part of the backstop, after transition has ended.
<p>The rail infrastructure is uk state owned, its the train companies that own the trains that are put out to tender to put trains on the tracks, arriva, virgin (was) etc.</p>
<p><p>Nope, they don't own the trains either, someone else owns the rolling stock and it is leased. The companies whose names you see (Albellio, Arriva etc.) provide back of house support and the finance for the actual companies (Scotrail, Greater Anglia, Great Western etc) to operate and hope to make money back in a share of the profits. They also get the lucky job of taking the flak for everything despite the fact that whilst the financiers change the people running things the public see don't. That's why some compaines just never get better despite franchises changing hands multiple times.</p></p><p></p><p>Then theres the other layer that sets the timetabling at a national level (up here that's Transport Scotland) and has their own things they want done. </p><p></p><p>If it looks like a sorry mess at this stage then you have no idea how much more complicated it is.</p>
Indeed… I assume all government waste has already been eliminated and we are demonstrating this in Whitehall and in all council offices around the country. This is why our waste management and roads are the envy to the western world
Ah, but we never privatised them to allow them to learn from the private sector and develop the best practices... they're still running as if it was still BR days.
(So the theory goes, at least. I'm not sure I believe it either. Just presenting an alternate case, not necessarily my case)
The rail networks were more "privatised" than they currently are, but due to a catastrophic failure of the privatised rail the government had to bring back increased state ownership/intervention. But of course they didn't want to totally reject the policy of state subsidised private profit, so we now have a total hodge podge.
And it should be noted that a rail network that has failed and does fail to provide the required level of service we have in the UK could be privatised within EU rules.
Meanwhile...
Just read this about the Parliament vote on The Maybots’ deal...
“But I'm told, if the vote is lost by less than 50, there have been informal discussions about seeking some kind of additional clarifications from the EU then holding another vote relatively soon.”
The sauce that’s good for the goose, it seems, is now completely inappropriate for the gander.
Fortunately, talk of a 50 vote loss is complete fantasy.
Are all these legal wranglings the ones that the Zombie Maygot didn’t want parliament to have?
Shame, cos we could have really cracked on with this splendid deal that the whole country is behind.
I think the point I was badly making is we have a choice between..
A) Economic and social suicide
B) remain as we are
C) unobtainuim
That is exactly how it has been since before the referendum even took place. Remain as we are was always going to be the best option. It is just becoming more obvious now to those that couldn't work it out beforehand. If it wasn't for politics, loss of face, ulterior motives we would scrap the whole thing at this point.
ECJ judgement in: we can cancel A50
Ok, that's certainly interesting, and good!.
Bloody EU, letting us make our own decisions.
We want to make our own.. .. Oh wait. What?
ECJ judgement in: we can cancel A50
Not quite. That's the legal opinion not the final ruling. That will follow. (it has been known to differ)
Hopefully that means that Rees-Moggs no deal fantasy has slipped further out of reach, if it means that parliament could vote to retract Article 50.
Given that most MPs are anti-Brexit then faced with retracting article 50 or no deal, then surely there's only one result there.
I personally still think May's deal will be voted trough as the least worst option. Given that journalists and commentators reckon its a certainty that it'll be voted down. And they all predicted remain would win, May would win a huge majority, there's no chance Trump would be elected, and we'd have definitely had a vote of no confidence by now
Would be a bombshell if it were retracted tho wouldn't it?
It'd be Gammonageddon! 😀