Have I heard/read correctly that she’s going to ask EU27 leaders how they’d feel if their countries were carved in two
Well considering it is the union that might be carved into in order to maintain security for a country that was carved in two i would very much hope she would not go down this route
the break up of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and a number of European countries has all happened in the recent history...
its not like she is archduke franz Ferdinand in the firing line and the break up of the Union will collapse Europe...
I suspect May has known this all along, and it’s playing out exactly as she knew it would. She was just trying to shut the ****ers up for as long as possible until the true reality of things, as opposed to their ridiculous fantasies, becomes apparent
Agree and an approach I would have used. We need to remember she is a remainer and this was her best chance of remaining while pretending to leave
Agree and an approach I would have used.
I am not sure her history really supports that level of political cunning. Also her beliefs arent really that clear. She does have a real hatred of the ECHR which is difficult to disentangle from everything else.
She also plays on the "servant of the people" schtick, though perhaps that's her way of avoiding responsibility for her decisions.
In other news, Chequers is still dead. Can it be called news when it's not new?
The EU 27 have offcially rejected Chequers, so NO deal ?
I don't thik that is how May thinks at all. I do not believe she has the subtlety. I think she is genuinely attempting to find a way to keep bth sides of her party on side.
The Queen doesn’t like the idea of the nation being torn up and annexed so refuses to give Royal Assent.
Ah wouldn't be amusing if the monarch kept us in the EU?
Mefty – are the euro elections D’Hondt ? I thought that was the holyrood system of constituencies plus a list top up. I thought the euro were simple regional list sytems?
D'Hondt is an allocation methodology which works and is used for both.
It is somewhat laughable, is it not, to decry accountability in a system to which so little is generally known?
Arguably the reverse applies too, the lack of accountability argument tends to ignore the Parliament as it has such limited powers. One thing it does illustrate well is that people don't understand PR systems.
Ta Mefty - its about how the preferences are distributed not the list plus top up then yes?
Shows how tricky this is when a political geek can't get it right
However the interesting thing is that people seem to understand how to use their votes in the 4 different systems we have.
Tusk says the EU27 agreed there would be no Brexit agreement without a workable solution to the Irish border problem.
They agreed there should be “as much clarity as possible” on the future trade relationship. He says the single market must be protected and that the Chequers plans for economic cooperation will no work because they would undermine it.
Not sure is just the late night, but May looked crushed in that press conference,(shes not the most photogenic, but her robot dance hinted at some humour, not today tho!) Chequers isnt necessarily dead but surely thered be too many compromises required to get it past the headbanger brexiters in the party.
So Canda deal? going to need a lot of '+' s to make it acceptible to both business, finance & Labour./ Tory remainers, not to mention NI border & still includes customs checks that hit car makers, airbus etc
She has to quit now. Her credibility is gone.
There's still no NI border solution and that was one of the most immediate problems with Chequers. Not much point coming up with another different non-solution. "No deal" isn't a solution either. No brexit, on the other hand...
tick, and most definitely, tock
Chequers was dead in the water the day it was announced. Its obvious that it cannot work.
Mays problem is to accept the EUs quite sensible position on NI would mean the DUP having a canary and Scotland wanting the same deal. I do love her threatening the EU with "no deal"
How much longer can she go on. Norway is unacceptable to large parts of her own party. Canada would mean a hard border in NI thus breaking both the good friday agreement and her pledge on no hard border. Her relines rule anything else out. She ha predicatably painted herself into a corner with no way out.
I have never seen such political incompetence in my life. Makes it look like Major and Callaghan were both right on top and in charge of an orderly government
So Canda deal? going to need a lot of ‘+’ s to make it acceptible to both business, finance & Labour./ Tory remainers, not to mention NI border & still includes customs checks that hit car makers, airbus etc
Canada deal, except for NI, which gets a better deal than anywhere else in Europe.
Shitty on the mainland for manufacturing, retail, farming, fishing… well, just about all industries, but that's the will of the people, apparently.
Labour will be pretending they can get something better* before transition ends, and will push for a GE during transition. Transition extends and extends, while we keep rearranging deckchairs.
[ *benefits of SM&CU, without responsibilities ]
Rebels in all parties will push for EEA+CU and a public vote to chose between that and remain… but chances of that happening before we "leave" are tiny and getting smaller every day.
Tick. Tock.
She has to quit now. Her credibility is gone.
Gone? You speak as if she had some.
Worked on preview but ended up indecipherable - that me done for a bit - can't be bothered
Shame Mefty - its good to have differing viewpoints
if we leave will they fix the forum so it can parse xml correctly?
if we leave will they fix the forum so it can parse xml correctly?
In ascending order of difficulty:
- Rubik's Cube
- Solving world poverty
- Obtaining a drink of water on the top of a mountain
- Resolving the NI border after Brexit
... <big gap>
- Fixing the STW editor XML parser
I've spoken with Mrs May and she's optimistic that it can be fixed, so you can relax now.
This seems to be Mays negotiating tactic right now
Just catching up. What a surprise, the EU sticking to the stance they said they would not budge on 2 years ago. How very dare they. I think it's about now that the fantasists begin to understand the phrase 'take it or leave it'. No doubt the nutters will be on the news tonight talking about the germans wanting us to buy their cars, and the French and Italians begging us to buy their wine.
If the German car manufacturers pull out of the UK, because of supply chain issues and increased costs, then we'll end up buying more German made cars, not fewer. Same goes for [insert nationality of car brand owner] cars.
Chequers isnt necessarily dead
Its 100% dead. The EU won't accept it. The tory nut jobs won't accept it. Its dead. Mays now trying to call the EU's bluff. That'll fail too.
No deal looming. Constitutional crisis imminent.
Yep. And the EU27 will try to capitalise on the 20% or so of UK trade with the RoW that are through EU agreements (which the UK of course won’t be party to or have replaced - initially at least).
Only our exports really up for grabs there I suppose.
onstitutional crisis imminent
Lots of internet chatter about a December election… still think that Labour will prefer it after we've "left", and will just want to propose a different (not necessarily achievable) approach to what we are "transitioning" to, at that point. And I can't see the Conservatives risking it.
Extending A50 countdown starts now… (and yes, May has ruled that out, but she may have no choice). Why would the except it? Only if there is a "cunning plan' for the Uk to unite around an approach… with the dangled possibility of not leaving at all. Referendum time… more and more rebel politicans on all sides are openly pushing it as the laxative we'll have to reluctantly take.
And the EU27 will try to capitalise on the 20% or so of UK trade with the RoW that are through EU agreements
Indeed. We're about to get a lesson in the power of supranational trade blocs and political unions. The nutters are finally going to get their wish to roll the clock back to the days when we plucky British underdogs thumbed our noses to the fascists on the continent. How long before we have Boris Johnson on the telly talking about fighting them on the beaches?
Thought that was on the news 6 months ago
Listening to two MPs from Portsmouth on the radio on the way home. The nutty Leave Tory, after dismissing stockpiling of life saving medicines as ‘medical stuff’ that will ‘need to be sorted’, had a go at luring the Labour Remain guy by asking if they would come out and say they are against a second referendum.
He very deftly declined, threw the ball back to the silly cow and pretty much said “Nah, nice try, but this is your mess, you sort the ****er out”.
Brexit cannot actually happen. Never could.
Will we need an upgraded fan to cope with the amount of shit hitting it?
That chequers thang was a bit like the monty python parrot sketch 🙂
Just when you think she can’t fk it up any more “she shooots she scores”.
I'm just hoping she's pulling an "omar" from the wire. Maybe it's not the EU she's trying to get one over on, and she's stitching up the uk brexit process until there's no choice but to remain.
Let's look at the evidence..
Appoints professional flannel David Davis as negotiator to fail...
Appoints professional racist Boris Johnson as foreign Secretary to fail....
I could go on...
All in the game y'all. All in the game.
Interesting day, just observing the body language and the absolure consistently of the EU position - 27 countries that are more aligned than the Tory party.
Dutch PM saying they are better prepared for a Hard Brexit than the UK...
Basically the EU has called our bluff and Mrs May is a dead PM walking.
So we have 4 maybe 6 weeks to eat the biggest shit sandwich possibly ever created.
The peoples vote is almost certain as no politicians of any colour can sort this complete and utter cluster ****
We have just relegated ourselves out of the worlds respected countries/economies and no one will ever take us seriously for a bloody long time. We May have to go back on bended knee.
An alternative interpretation
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7309816/the-sun-says-eu-brexit-mobsters/
It's certainly a comfort to know that behind the scenes the grownups are negotiating a good solution.
That's presumably why THM has been so quiet recently.
It’s certainly a comfort to know that behind the scenes the grownups are negotiating a good solution.
Shame me no one from the UK is involved...
Those "two bit mobsters" are the national leaders of 26 of the countries on our doorstop. This was an informal meeting of national leaders. We have to find a way of dealing with them. We had a way, which people have voted to withdraw from, what's the alternative method, and how effective does it look? Only one leader is supporting our fantasy, and that's the lone fascist leader in the EU, and he has his own reasons.
the ****ing omnishambles rumbles on and on.
Interesting times. May was lured into a trap, including the deliberately claustrophobic room for her press conference, but she was badly advised about the likelihood of a good result.
The EU is ultimately terrified of Britain leaving "the project" but I think their manipulative/nefarious tactics may backfire, as they only serve to anger the leavers and also convert remainers to leavers. They obviously want a second referendum, and who knows they may get one, but the result will be the same.
UK needs to leave with a No Deal in March, and then I suspect towards the end of the transition the EU will suddenly come up with a deal that looks remarkably similar to Chequers. War of attrition etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if she resigns today.