If Curtice is right & a people's vote would show a 20% swing to remain, it's not just her own MPs that don't back her or brexshit
The will of the people !!! Has changed, all thanks to the incompetence of the tories in the negotiations!
It's not often I praise the Tories but they've done a grand job of making brexit look like a shitshow
From the very beginning I've suspected that May is playing a very cunning game for the good of the country.
In a grand self sacrificing act of patriotism she has been sinking brexit from the inside, she know its a frigging stupid idea but she also knows that if the hard liners get to drive the bus we'd be well and truly screwed.
interesting article from Reuters today. 59-41 swing in new poll.
plus the DUP who are already bought and paid for
Indeed. And just in case anyone forgot, when a Tory or DUPper starts talking about the hijacking of the “hard won peace in NI”...say someone like the massive cock, Nigel Dodds:
https://twitter.com/nigeldoddsdup/status/1037020824878964736?s=21
...the DUP opposed the GFA.
So, THM - if people knew exactly what they were voting for (and/or all wanted the same thing) before the referendum, how come they seem to be changing their minds now?
They couldn't be thinking they made a mistake, surely, because they were all rational actors in possession of all the facts, surely? They couldn't have made a mistake.
Particularly liked “Hi, Nigel. Big fan here. Listen, let's get down to brass tacks: how much do you charge for a good ride?” in the replies to Dodds
debate: pathetic and misplaced
Well, at least you're now being transparent about your motives… to shut down and dismiss debate. Now, what were you saying about "undemocrats"…?
I have always argued for FTA
You can prefer a "bespoke FTA" all you want, but that is a very wide remit, from an EEA style arrangement, sharing standards and governance in many sectors, to the bare minimum agreement to avoid/reduce tariffs for key industries. Lots of hard choices need to be made to determine the content and timing of an FTA. And, only the minority of the population will prefer those trade offs, whichever are chosen, over continuing our current arrangements (and, very slowly, revising them in future).
Do you support the impossible "bespoke FTA" that May has laid out, far too late, or do you have your own idea of how it should look… and would your version have the support of "the people", or even a big enough chunk of MPs, and, of course, the agreement of governments of other EU countries…? How about the agreement of the governments of major nonEU countries the EU has recently signed FTAs with?
How does Ireland fit into your version of an FTA?
Oh, don't bother us with asking for pesky details. See the big picture! Bespoke, red white and blue, brexit means brexit! Sunlit uplands! Global Britain!
Cash & Raab 2 brexiteers arguing over Ni border as part of Canada FTA
Raab as minister having to accept reality & admit its a problem Cash able to wish it away 🙂
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-45399734
also raab mostly being ignored while his junior (oillie robbins) seems to be the real grown up
jesus Raab is looking worried
he seems to care much more than Davis ever did, but that just means hes exposed
again Robbins looks the grown up
Please don’t play the shut down debate card on this thread of all places. Why do you think it’s largely an echo chamber? I am all for informed debate. Less so for exagerated BS
As someone who prepares for the worst but hopes for the best mol I have no problem if there’s no Brexit. I just want to know and get on with it either way.
But if people are hoodwinked into changing their minds then that is a different matter. That ultimately supports the growth of populism with false solutions - salmond/sturgeon; trump; Farage etc
the Brexit swingometer moves back towards "blind Brexit" …
[ still the most likely position we'll be in come March IMO ]
But if people are hoodwinked into changing their minds then that is a different matter
What if people change their minds, due to the position we are actually in now (or early next year, or before whenever a "real" exit day might be) but are called "undemocrats" if they think they should be consulted as to their most recent desired path for the country?
edit - I see you've edited your post to add one of your little SNP side jabs - again - take your boring whataboutery trolling elsewhere.
But if people are hoodwinked into changing their minds
how is that happening?, did you read the Curtice report?
people are changing their minds because the economic benefits the brexiters promised dont seem to be appearing
they feel their pockets are lighter, they see the libraries & youth centres are still closed, they see less police, longer NHS wait times, more crime, they see the shambles in government conceding to the EU on every single point..... people dont want this to get any worse
when kinnock said that the wind really fell out of of Raabs sails
So you are all for suppressing debate then kelvin. If you can’t see the parallels between yS BS and leavers BS then you have a problem.
not yet kimbers but will look later. Can’t see how Brexit makes much difference to your list of woes either way. That’s just reverse Brexshitting
but I look foreward to the shrill calls about polling methods given
The author of the poll urged caution over the finding, however, saying the interview panel was skewed towards remain, and that some of the shift was among those who did not take part in the original Brexit referendum.
it does get better 😀
THM, before you came back this thread could easily drop off the front page only returning once something had happened.
Now it's bouncing off the top every minute you are awake.
If someone says something that doesn't fit in with your particular world view just call them a ****er.
You dont need to respond to every post. Move on with your life.
Can’t see how Brexit makes much difference to your list of woes either way. That’s just reverse Brexshittining
curtice says people want to see economic benefits of brexit, thats no t happened yet, infact the reverse, which is why its no longer seen as the solutiuon, by some
Shut down debate @teamhurtmore? No.
Youe snide SNP comments are so childish in this thread… and I'm not an SNP supporter, not in favour of Scottish independence, not Scottish, and don't live North of the border… so I have no skin in the game… so I'm calling out your troll bullshit. Go and make those comments in another thread.
and that some of the shift was among those who did not take part in the original Brexit referendum
Pssst - if we have another referendum, the make up of the electorate would have changed… time marches on… some people reach voting age… some people will decide not to vote that did before… some will be motivated to vote who didn't before…
…any way… all polls are flawed, we can all agree on that.
You seem to like and over use the word “troll” kelvin. Becoming a cliche
I’ll leave the “****” comments to you zippy (and NW). Hope the choccie market is ok
kimbers we all want the economy to prosper. My point was that the woes you highlight are not directly related to Brexshit. They existed before and will probably exist after. Unless you are claiming that reversing Brexshit will solve them. Is a bus free?!?!
Hope the choccie market is ok
So, that wasn't trolling zippykona? Right… honest concern for his livelihood, I'm sure.
I'm out of this thread for a while. Enjoy.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">teamhurtmore
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<div class=""><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.8rem;">Please don’t play the shut down debate card on this thread of all places. </span></div>
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Huh? How do you match that with...
<div class="bbp-reply-author">teamhurtmore</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">debate: pathetic and misplaced
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I is confused.
But if people are hoodwinked into changing their minds then that is a different matter.
What about if they were hoodwinked into voting for something in the first place that had no realistic possibility of ever happening?
Paraphrasing Mervyn Kings point - which I tend to agree with.
What about if they were hoodwinked into voting for something in the first place that had no realistic possibility of ever happening?
Its not specifically a something though .....more a pick n mix....
Lots of diverse promises but all promised along side Brexit.... or Brexit positioned as the answer
Brexit + No immigrants claiming benefits
Brexit + No immigrants stealing your jobs
Brexit + complete and utter sovereignty...
Brexit + however many million to the NHS
Brexit + countries falling over themselves to do trade deals that were favourable to us and not them...
It was a pretty endless list of woes and solutions that a movement simply claimed to have a single panacea for.
Choose a complaint with the current state of the UK and Brexit was the answer.
Indeed in the words of THM
My point was that the woes you highlight are not directly related to Brexshit. They existed before and will probably exist after.
Indeed the woes that the myriad Brexit factions claimed to address had little to do with the EU and were not ever going to be solved by by Brexit ... and some are simply unsolvable.
It was very specific. Do you want to remain a member of the EU or leave. Simple and clear. The majority of voters indicated that they wanted to end membership.
That advisory thing? Sound - opinions heard, let's move on.
Do you want to remain a member of the EU or leave.
Excellent. So no objection to joining Schengen and the EEA.
THM is correct - Sir John urged caution. Here is how the ES reported it (and yes the ES is not as Brexmaniac as say the Telegraph - but the direct quote of Sir John stands).
The author of the report, polling expert John Curtice, added a note of caution, saying that their panel of interviewees reported they had voted 53 percent in favour of Remain in the original vote - a higher proportion than in the actual vote.
On June 23 2016, 52 percent of the voters backed leaving the EU while 48 per cent backed staying. Many opinion polls were wrong about the result.
But he added: "Nevertheless, this still means that there has apparently been a six-point swing from Leave to Remain, larger than that registered by any of our previous rounds of interviewing, and a figure that would seemingly point to a 54 percent (Remain) vote in any second referendum held now."
So caution - but still an 8 point win for remain. And the trends keep on trending.
By the time we leave the only folk in favour of Brexit will be the EU. 😜
Schengen???
Schengen???
Not related to the referendum, apparently.
26 countries in Schengen only 22 are eu members
thm either hasn't read all the explanations against the validity of the 'yes to Brexit' vote, or he has but doesn't understand them, or does understand them but chooses to ignore them, or chooses to ignore them and wait so he can trot out that robotic little claim just to annoy everybody.
Perhaps he's related to jhj.
If Brexit is so clear, then why are Brexiteers are getting so uptight about the prospect of BRINO (Brexit In Name Only)?
It will be a betrayal of the British people and of democracy if our government refuse to accept that time moves on, opinions charge and the “will of the people” may we’ll not be what it was over 2 years ago.
Not even the electorate is the same.
26 countries in Schengen only 22 are eu members
Precisely. I drove from Germany to Switzerland in the summer - straight through the border with no checks. Meanwhile, Norway has committed to the four freedoms because it is part of the EEA.
Dear Michael Smith,
Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Rescind Art.50 if Vote Leave has broken Electoral Laws regarding 2016 referendum”.
https://petition.parliament.<wbr />uk/petitions/223729
The debate is scheduled for 10 September 2018.
Once the debate has happened, we’ll email you a video and transcript.
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
Did anyone else get that?
Yes.
Precisely. I drove from Germany to Switzerland in the summer – straight through the border with no checks. Meanwhile, Norway has committed to the four freedoms because it is part of the EEA.
Not quite the whole story, i was stopped by French police leaving Switzerland, there is still a customs border and that means duty free applies. Yes you are free as a person to cross but goods and possessions aren't free to cross. Unlike crossing from the NI to the RoI for example.
ah well whats an extra £2bn pissed up the wall
Whose paying for the aircraft insurance? the pilots licences etc once we crash out of Open skies?
Not quite the whole story, i was stopped by French police leaving Switzerland, there is still a customs border and that means duty free applies.
Because they have not yet ratified EFTA. The queue of goods lorries waiting to cross should disabuse anyone of the notion that our Brexit transition will be smooth.
