[Closed] EU decides that obesity can constitute a disability

Just stupidity to go and then you can park there too.

Interesting, so lack of self control is a disability now...

The exercise physiologist in me is sad.

That doesn't really seem to be the outcome of the decision.

Response on the BBC:

Paul Callaghan, head of employment law at international law firm Taylor Wessing, said the ruling does not change UK law.

"The European Court of Justice has ruled that obesity itself is not a disability, but that the effects of it can be.

"As such, workers who suffer from, for example, joint problems, depression, or diabetes - specifically because of their size - will be protected by the European Equal Treatment Framework Directive and cannot be dismissed because of their weight."
Employers' responsibility

Audrey Williams, employment law partner at Eversheds, said the mere fact someone is obese is not enough to make them disabled.

"What the court are saying is that obesity is not protected unless it hinders professional life."

She said the ruling would increase awareness among employers of their responsibility towards obese employees in the workplace.

This could include making reasonable adjustments to working arrangements, seating arrangements or making access to the office easier.

If you are not capable of doing your job because of your size you should be able to be dismissed, this new ruling prevents that. More EU madness.

Do we class idiot, self congratulatory, black and white thinkers as people with a disability, but a right to work, or people as we can just summarily sack? In the context of people posting thoughtless drivel on public forum during company time.

A lot of weight problems have psychological roots, it's not just a simple case of lack of self control. Dismissing someone because they are overweight is not going to make them lose weight, quite probably the opposite.

Discriminating against someone because of their size should be illegal, so from that point of view this ruling sounds like a good thing IMO.

So the fatties

Change that to "****s" or "n****rs" and what does that sound like?

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO. I'm off to Greggs, then to pick up my blue badge and apply for my benefits!!!!! 😀

[img] [/img]

Just crazy. Another stupid EU law.

I had a complaint made against me 2 weeks ago on a flight back from China where what can only be described as a whale of man had a seat next to me. He had to raise the armrests on both sides to even get into the seat. I politely asked the air stewardess to be re-seated so that the whale could have more space to which she very kindly obliged. Whilst I was collecting my items from the overhead locker, said whale complained to the air steward that i was discriminating against him by being asked to move!! WTF?

*pulls up a chair and opens packet of low fat healthy snacks*

*jogs on the spot eating an apple* 😆

Fattist!!!!

We could all cheddar few pounds.

[img] [/img]

Is this thread making anyone else feel hungry?

Comparing someones race with someones inability to control what they eat?
Come on now.

[i]Fattist!!!! [/i]

No, I think you will find you are the fattist, fatty.

It's pretty easy to say people should exercise self control but when people develop a serious problem with alcohol or pretty much any other drug then often the only way to deal with it is complete abstinence.
Any of the hard of thinking on here want to do try that with food?

I was 10 stone soaking wet.
I got sick.
Got shitty medication that put nearly 6 stone one me.
I'm working very hard to lose it. I run 5k every day, go to a gym 4 times a week with a personal trainer.
I follow a strict diet.
I am still classed as obese.
There's more to weight problems than eating shit.
If it's accepted as a condition by the EU, what's the problem?

The guy the case was about said

Describing his work with children, he said: "I can sit on the floor and play with them, I have no problems like that.

"I don't see myself as disabled. It's not OK just to fire a person because they're fat, if they're doing their job properly."

Yes, but could you chase around after them pick them up ok, move around the nursery, change nappies, play in the garden with them, go on outings to the park etc etc? I suspect not, so is that "doing your job properly"? You could be the best "floor player" in the country but if you cant do the rest of the job...
Doing a part of what is required of the job that you were hired for (when at that time you could have probably done all of those things) is one thing but if you can't do the rest. So IMO it's fair as any dismissal on medical grounds.

It's not covered in the article but there could well have been offers of help from the employers before this too. He must have been aware of his situation a limitations and things seem to have not been address. You don't get to 25st over night.

Anyway the final dismissal was on grounds of reduced demand, so any employer will look at the best and least able staff and obviously choose to get rid of the worst and as he could only manage a small part of the entire job he went. That's not unfair in my eyes.

Worked for me...

http://thefastdiet.co.uk/

yaaay, let's celebrate the chubbies

[img] [/img]

Why has "the inability to control what you eat" only become an issue over the last 20 years? Why is it now that 1 in 4 of us are obese?

Yes there are folk out there with genuine health problems that can go towards putting weight on (I had this too, I ballooned by 3 stone due to meds I was on at the time increasing appetite, but I realised this and did something about it. I can blame the meds but it was me who was putting crap in to my mouth)

Most people are eating too much and doing too little to burn it off and blaming everything else but themselves

Change that to "****s" or "n****rs" and what does that sound like?

There are too many excuses and this will just give them one more.

We're still allowed to persecute gingers though, right?

Any of the hard of thinking on here want to do try that with food?

[url= http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/07/24/3549931.htm ]http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/07/24/3549931.htm[/url]

Any of the hard of thinking on here want to do try that with food?

I love fish & chips me.

I wish some of you would just calm down. Nothing in the ruling is likely to stop you being able to judge and sneer at people whose lives and circumstances you know nothing about, so just carry on as you were.

physically addictive non-necessary substance like alcohol

i dont know, would the human race survive without alchohol induced procreation?

more seriously comparing fatism to racism is out of order.

I'm in Love...chuck in a couple of Bavarian slices and I would Wed the Lass in the pic posted by Binners up yonder.I can taste the Wedding snap now

by "hard of thinking" do you mean an inability to tell the difference between a physically addictive non-necessary substance like alcohol or a non-physically addictive necessary substance like, say, food?

Why do you think food isn't physically addictive???

comparing fatism to racism is out of order.

Why? Discrimination is discrimination, be it because someone is black, white, fat, ginger, whatever. Fattism is becoming the last socially acceptable "ism".

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Someone who is morbidly obese is clearly going to be [i]less physically able[/i] than someone who isn't. That sounds like a disability to me.

What's the issue? Is it because it is "self-inflicted"?

If that is the case then presumably this guy shouldn't be allowed to call himself disabled either then?

[img] [/img]

Or is that a bit trickier to get sanctimonious about?

Or is that a bit trickier to get sanctimonious about?

In all fairness he did that doing his job, didn't he? Which is a very different scenario to someone who due to non work related psychological problems developed an eating disorder and is obese.

What I don't understand is at what point does it become an employers problem what goes on in an employees private life? (assuming it is not the employer who is to blame, then that's very different.)

There a lots of 'conditions' you can be fired for that surely fall under the same umbrella as obesity - drug abuse, alcoholism, etc. You can be fired for being high or drunk at work, is that fair if you're addicted to drugs or an alcoholic?

comparing fatties with actual disabled people isn't quite right is it. they don't have a choice to lose their disability, self inflicted or not, and neither can someone change their race if they fancied it either... i lost 5 stone in my mid 20's which was purely self inflicted pie/drinking/lazyness weight (and not in one iota due to an underlying issue), i'm now a lot healthier/fitter/happier as a consequence and can't see why any other lazy arsed sod can't do the same. fair enough if an underlying condition means someone can't help themselves to the biscuit tin

comparing fatism to racism is out of order.

Congratulations to all of the sanctimonious skinny people who all lost weight and now have the right to preach at the fatties. Help yourself to a [s]cake[/s] apple.

I thought the monthly fat thread was about due. It's quite refreshing to see the same old arguments trotted out month after month. 🙄

This one has the bonus 'Bloody Europe' angle too!

i dont know, would the human race survive without alchohol induced procreation?

I'm afraid I'm pretty right wing about the treatment of fatties. Comparisons of fatism to racism are frankly offensive. Being born with a particular skin colour is normal and healthy; being morbidly obese is not, moreover it is entirely self inflicted and preventable. Again, the comparison to someone who has injured themselves in an accident such as and are now disabled, such as Martyn Ashton, as eating far too much over a sustained period is about as far from an accident as you can get. The reality is most people are fat not because of an underlying problem, but because they have easy access to high calorie food and no self control.

I would concede that if they have complications as a result of it they should get treatment for their symptoms and access to disabled parking etc - creating needless suffering benefits nobody - but I will not absolve them of all blame for their situation.

Giving fatties their own parking spaces sounds like a brilliant idea. No fatty is allowed to park within one mile of their chosen destination and the final mile has to be done under their own steam by walking, on a scooter or bike.

Job jobbed. 😀

skin colour is normal and healthy; being morbidly obese is not, moreover it is entirely self inflicted

I think you'll find that becoming morbid is something that happens to a person, not something that a person does to themselves.

Your brain is no more able to sort out it's own malfunctions without help, as is any other part of your body.

The Cloward–Piven strategy ...

Always nice to get reminded how many judgemental bellends there are on STW.

Being born with a particular skin colour is normal and healthy; being morbidly obese is not, moreover it is entirely self inflicted and preventable.

Being an arsehole towards people because they are different to you isn't cool, whoever it's directed at.

I think you'll find that becoming morbid is something that happens to a person, not something that a person does to themselves.

Pies just sneak into fat peoples mouths while they are sleeping?

I'm afraid I'm pretty right wing about the treatment of fatties. Comparisons of fatism to racism are frankly offensive. Being born with a particular skin colour is normal and healthy; being morbidly obese is not, moreover it is entirely self inflicted and preventable. Again, the comparison to someone who has injured themselves in an accident such as and are now disabled, such as Martyn Ashton, as eating far too much over a sustained period is about as far from an accident as you can get. The reality is most people are fat not because of an underlying problem, but because they have easy access to high calorie food and no self control.

How does your argument stack up against say, discrimination because of someone's religion (something many other people would claim is an irrational, habit based "choice" driven largely by the behaviours of our parents); or with say lung cancer associated to smoking - another long term choice, with predictable consequences; or even skin cancer in regular sun/sun-bed worshipers?

None of this means you can't have objective fitness related criteria for assessing people's ability to do a job (that would rule out many disabled people from being a fire fighter for example) but if reasonable adjustments can be made then they should be. If employers really cared about reducing obesity there is a lot they could do.

Someone who is morbidly obese is clearly going to be less physically able than someone who isn't. That sounds like a disability to me.

I'm not so sure. You try wearing a fat suit for a few hours and you'll see just how physically capable some of the obese actually are.

It has little to do with eating too much, it is more to do with moving too little.

I am a fat bastard, does that mean I am safe to call other fat bastards fat bastards.
I have not entered the relms of being physically disabled by my fat bastardness.

My weight gain was initially triggered by meds, after a couple of years I decided to change and dropped 4 1/2 stone.
I then picked up an injury and put 3 stone back on.

I am fat due to snacking, simple as.
When I lost weight I did it by eating three healthy meals a day and nowt else.
Since slipping back into fast food and snacking between meals it went back on.

To lose this weight again now I need to want to be slim more than I want to eat fast food, if not I will stay fat.

Obesity can be a product of a cycle of depression- physical health problems, and/or addiction. This is often disabling and isn't always just a matter of pulling one's socks up. Problem is with black and white laws/thinking is applying them to grey areas. Sometimes it is as near as black and white, sometimes it isn't.

But yes - shame and ridicule them all - bound to inspire a few back to fitness, at least more than it harms, eh?

(PS am currently a porker at 15ish stone and blame myself 100%)

Obesity can be a product of a cycle of depression- physical health problems, and/or addiction. This is often disabling and isn't always just a matter of pulling one's socks up. Problem is with black and white laws is applying them to grey areas.

I will not disagree with you, but what's with all the fat kids, when I was at school there was one fat kid in my year, all the rest of us were like racing snakes. Now come school kicking out time the streets are awash with porkers.
They all cannot be depressed.

They all cannot be depressed

I don't think anyone is saying that, really? We all know that this new fast food/staring at a screen culture is slowly killing our kids. (Not literally ours, ours grew into lanky string-bean but still spends all of his work and leisure time on the net)

Pies just sneak into fat peoples mouths while they are sleeping?

I can only assume that you didn't understand what I wrote or you are just using the thread to have a go at the helplessly fat.

If something goes wrong with your mind and you become morbid, that's like catching pneumonia, only in your brain ( 🙄 that I'm having to spell this out).

My one staff member at work is enormously obese, to the point where I and my manager are discussing what to do in the event of him either having a heart attack or simply not being able to get out of bed in the morning.

I noticed, after being employed at the site, that urging him to take excercise and lose weight, only made the problem worse - he'd just eat more as a reaction to the stress of having his condition bought to his attention.

Although of course, I [i]DO[/i] realise that you've come across a handy disablement to sneer at to help you pass the time.

How come alcoholism isn't treated as a disability then? If i struggled to do my job because i was constantly hungover id be shown the door. Whats the difference?

Theres far to much pandering to overweight people, and this proves it. The fact that 1 in 4 people being obese is a recent phenomenan tells you its much more to do with poor lifestyle, self control and diet than it is any underlying medical condition.

I should clarify, i don't have any issue with fat folk, its their choice (most of their time) but lets not try to pretend obesity is anything more than it is..

I was 10 stone soaking wet.
I got sick.
Got shitty medication that put nearly 6 stone one me.
I'm working very hard to lose it. I run 5k every day, go to a gym 4 times a week with a personal trainer.
I follow a strict diet.
I am still classed as obese.
There's more to weight problems than eating shit.
If it's accepted as a condition by the EU, what's the problem?

Has anyone answered Iolo's post? Thought not. 😐

If something goes wrong with your mind and you become morbid, that's like catching pneumonia, only in your brain ( that I'm having to spell this out).

So what you are saying is a person who is morbidly obese has no influence over how they got that way? In other words they have a disease like pneumonia and can do nothing about it?

I don't have the words...........

If it's accepted as a condition by the EU, what's the problem?

The problem is the fear of Wayne and Waynetta getting so many Fanta stamps from taxpayers that everyone will stop working so they too can get fat and not have to work for carbs.

grum - Member
Always nice to get reminded how many judgemental bellends there are on STW.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the keyboard judgemental bellends would, I very much doubt, say their bellendery to someone's face. They might s**** behind their backs and slyly point, but to have the stones to speak out load? Nope.

There can be a great many reasons why someone is fat. Self control is not always the reason.

Has anyone answered Iolo's post? Thought not.

We're not talking about those who weigh 16 stone and go to the gym several times/week. We're talking about those who are documentary fat.

So what you are saying is a person who is morbidly obese has no influence over how they got that way?

In that they are [b]MORBIDLY[/b] obese, yes. Of course. That is, as I understand it, what the whole argument is about - making provision for those who cannot help being overweight.

I don't understand why you are having a problem with understanding it.

As far as alcoholism? Well, that's a condition that would disable you from turning in a productive day's work, I would imagine. Morbid obesity would not, given the parameters of necessary physical activity...

Everyone can help being overweight by reducing there calorie intake, if they cannot do that alone they should be able to seek professional help to do do,

Not be funded to stay overweight .
An ambulance was called for my friend with the broken neck last week as he had seizures at the rehab center.
The paramedics arrived and said" where do you expect me to take him, watford general is full" I expect you to take him to hospital, "I repeat watford is full".

Rome is burning as far as the NHS is concerned, if people are overweight they need to be helped to lose that weight and not signed off as disabled have some benefits for being overweight, sorry disabled.

A paraplegic has no say in his immobility, an overweight person does.

Although of course, I DO realise that you've come across a handy disablement to sneer at to help you pass the time.

They might s**** behind their backs and slyly point, but to have the stones to speak out load?

There can be a great many reasons why someone is fat.

Self control is not always the reason

I am not saying we should do this and i do agree STW , as it is with many things, has a poor attitude to those who are overweight [ yes i have been guilty of this and I apologise].
I am not sure what these debates are meant to achieve tbh

* see what i did there

[i]grum - Member
Always nice to get reminded how many judgemental bellends there are on STW.

Being born with a particular skin colour is normal and healthy; being morbidly obese is not, moreover it is entirely self inflicted and preventable.
Being an arsehole towards people because they are different to you isn't cool, whoever it's directed at.

POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST[/i]

Well, after that post, please feel free to count yourself among that number of "bellends". Weren't you the one who posted on this forum in order to recruit others for assistance and canvassing for comments you could use to cyber bully someone on another media? (twitter, face book) Solely because you felt that your victim shouldn't be expressing the opinion they held?

As for the fattie haters. Well, I've had people look me in the eye and tell me that they know they're fat and that they don't care. Furthermore, for them, it [b]will[/b] be service as usual and they are happy about that.

The nasty bunch will revel in this attitude and continue to point and laugh about pies and sofas, etc, etc.

I wouldn't care, but for the one nagging thought that the deliberately obese, [b]MAY[/b] draw down on NHS services and support, that might be better used (in my opinion) for other, less or none, self inflicted health issues, Cancer, mental health, etc.

For the rest, I sympathize with those who followed the low fat, high carb advise which has been pedalled to the west for over half a century, only to find that they are obese and suffering the symptoms of metabolic syndrome. For these people, admonishment is a sick joke.

[i]* see what i did there[/i]
No and furthermore, no one cares. If you're so clever, surely you've of noticed that by now (assuming a moderate degree of intelligence.... Oh, hang on...)

Weren't you the one who posted on this forum in order to recruit others for assistance and canvassing for comments you could use to cyber bully...

Pretty serious accusation there Solo, but no better man than yourself to spot it. And remember it. And bring it up some time later.

Well, after that post, please feel free to count yourself among that number of "bellends". Weren't you the one who posted on this forum in order to recruit others for assistance and canvassing for comments you could use to cyber bully someone on another media? (twitter, face book) Solely because you felt that your victim shouldn't be expressing the opinion they held?

😆

Was I? Remind me.

In that they are MORBIDLY obese, yes. Of course. That is, as I understand it, what the whole argument is about - making provision for those who cannot help being overweight.

I don't understand why you are having a problem with understanding it.

I have a problem understanding how you can compare pneumonia to obesity.

One is an infection, the other is, in the vast majority of cases (95%+) a lifestyle issue.

In the remaining percentage, it is not always clear, but IMO serious food addiction is much like drug or alcohol addiction. With help, people can abstain from the thing they are addicted to.

Solo, there are many overweight people who are happy, I am one of them, although I would be happier if I was slimmer, as as I am I feel my age (40) two years ago when I was 13stone lean and running every other day I felt 21.

But we are not talking about chubby people here we are talking people who are so overweight they are physically disabled, how many of them are happy to be their size.

I noticed, after being employed at the site, that urging him to take excercise and lose weight, only made the problem worse - he'd just eat more as a reaction to the stress of having his condition bought to his attention

So you tell the chubby he's a chubby and he just shovels more crap into himself? It's called denial and there's only one prson who can deal with that.

So you tell the chubby he's a chubby and he just shovels more crap into himself? It's called denial and there's only one prson who can deal with that.

Indeed, I think screaming "EAT LESS, MOVE MORE YOU BIG FAT BASTARD IN DENIAL" works very well.

Was I? Remind me.

Solo I highlight it for the benefit of idiots as I care about you and your plight. It's such a shame that when its pointed out to you you just dont care ...oh the irony.

Its as tiresome , as it is convincing, to read you replying to me to tell me how little you care. [ Will he do that joke again...gets excited]

Every single fat thread you doing this till they ban you.

Indeed, I think screaming "EAT LESS, MOVE MORE YOU BIG FAT BASTARD IN DENIAL" works very well.

Re the alcoholism comparisons...
I know someone who was on the employer side of the table when an employee turned up drunk.

Basically, if he'd have said "I'm an alcoholic" then he would have got help/support and kept his job. The company even tried to lead him to saying it but he just stuck with "I wanted to get hammered so I did".

So it's not necessarily a case of drink too much = instant dismissal.

well if you thnk screaming at people doesn't indicate mental health issues on your part...

No, no, I'm all good. Maybe just shouting "YOU'RE IN DENIAL" and leaving out any references to his size or parentage might work then?

I as a youth and young man used to do shit loads of drugs,every thing bar Heroin.
It got to the point I was doing cocaine every day amongst other things and got by on an hours maybe two hours sleep a night for months and months while holding down a job. I eventually lost the plot and spent two weeks in a psychiatric hospital with a diagnosis of drug induced psychosis. The first time I found myself stood in the medication que in a psychiatric hospital was the most sobering moment of my life.

For eight months I took antipsychotics and I was "disabled".
I was "disabled" of my own doing (see where I am going here).
But I was not written off as disabled and left to my own devices.
I was treated and helped to be well again. That was over ten years ago and touch wood 99.9999999 sane.
As much as I would love to get off my tits in a basement club so hot there is sweat dripping of the walls to a base line that reverberates your rib cage, I know I will never have that pleasure again as I value my sanity and non disabled status too much.

So If you are going to pass a fat person as disabled, you cannot leave it there, as their disability can be remedied.
You have to do what it takes to not make them stick thin necessarily but to the point the weight does not cause them to be disabled And their disabled status can then be revoked.

Most people seem to believe the basic rules of thermodynamics pertaining to calories needed / consumed are at the crux of the issue - but it's a lot more to do with malnutrition - Food is weaponized - Henry Kissinger - look it up .. More disabled population will bolster collectivist agendas ..